Should non-citizens be allowed to attend US med schools?

[DropkickMurphy]

Or should it be limited to those of us who are from here?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[IceMan0824]

Or should it be limited to those of us who are from here?

Troll

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Troll
[pic]http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/stock_illustration/images/cartoon_troll_001.gif[/pic]

No, this actually stemmed from an article in our newspaper today about our local university hiding dropping enrollment by American students by bringing in more and more foreigners.

 

[IceMan0824]

No, this actually stemmed from an article in our newspaper today about our local university hiding dropping enrollment by American students by bringing in more and more foreigners.

You know I was kidding DKM.
Still, you do know what kind of people this will bring out you troll.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

He's not a troll.

BUT, this poll will piss DOs and pre-DOs off since you separate them from what you consider "medicine."

Also, I'm a permanent resident. I'm going to live in the U.S. my whole life (likely) and will become a citizen soon.

How do I answer this poll?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You know I was kidding DKM.
Still, you do know what kind of people this will bring out you troll.

I know you were....I just figured I'd play along

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Also, I'm a permanent resident. I'm going to live in the U.S. my whole life (likely) and will become a citizen soon.

That's the same thing as a citizen in my book.

 

[Timmythemic22]

He's not a troll.

BUT, this poll will piss DOs and pre-DOs off since you separate them from what you consider "medicine."

Also, I'm a permanent resident. I'm going to live in the U.S. my whole life (likely) and will become a citizen soon.

How do I answer this poll?

DOs? Aren't those the guys that eat babies and dance around bubbling cauldrons in wooden masks?

 

[IceMan0824]

DOs? Aren't those the guys that eat babies and dance around bubbling cauldrons in wooden masks?

No, they are those people who didn't get a MD acceptance. Everyone knows that.

P.S. Sorry DKM, I was too busy getting the pic to work (img, not pic), that I missed the wit of your reply.

P.P.S. Noone, should take the above MD/DO comparisons seriously. If you do, ..., well too bad.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

DOs? Aren't those the guys that eat babies and dance around bubbling cauldrons in wooden masks?

No, those are ND's.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No, they are those people who didn't get a MD acceptance. Everyone knows that.

 

[IceMan0824]

Despite my avatar, in no way do I think suicide is a valid option. If you are thinking about it, please seek help from a professional.

You know the world is going to hell when you have to explain your avatar.

As to the question, I say, let everyone enter who has the capability and the mental toughness to survive in medical school, regardless of origin.

 

[interstellar]

oh gosh, you make "foreigners" sound like the f-word or something.

yeah those foreigners taking up all our med school seats!. damn them! Well, if we use that analogy I don't think we should allow ppl from other states into our medical schools. They should go to their own med schools!!

ok ok i know you weren't exactly implying that...that was for ppl who think like that... but honestly with the doctor shortage that is looming on the horizon, I highly doubt ppl should be worried about some foreigner taking up "their" seat.

Now on the otherhand, I know my university likes to have international students so they can charge them insane amounts of money to attend...certain departments even take trips to other universities around the world to recruit.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You know the world is going to hell when you have to explain your avatar.

Actually I did it partly because I've lost two relatives to suicide and I just want to make sure that no one gets the wrong impression. But you're right....

 

[DropkickMurphy]

oh gosh, you make "foreigners" sound like the f-word or something.

yeah those foreigners taking up all our med school seats!. damn them! Well, if we use that analogy I don't think we should allow ppl from other states into our medical schools. They should go to their own med schools!!

ok ok i know you weren't exactly implying that...that was for ppl who think like that... but honestly with the doctor shortage that is looming on the horizon, I highly doubt ppl should be worried about some foreigner taking up "their" seat.

Now on the otherhand, I know my university likes to have international students so they can charge them insane amounts of money to attend...certain departments even take trips to other universities around the world to recruit.

Our local university normally takes anyone with a pulse and a valid visa. They don't recruit. They are a last resort.

 

[PepperMD]

Yes, citizen.

I feel as much as the med school admissions process knocks some of us on our hind-parts with its uber-competitive nature, limiting who can participate in the competition only serves to dilute the quality of physicians that the US produces. If medical school truly aim toward producing the best doctors available and foreign applicants outperform citizens, it's in everybody's best interest to give preference to the best applicants, regardless of origin. If US applicants truly are losing a significant number of spots to non-citizens, then that speaks more toward the quality of the applicants themselves. Limiting to this sub-par applicant pool will produce sub-par physicians in the long-run.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

The question here is do medical schools in the U.S. (be it public OR private) have an obligation to its citizens?

OF COURSE.

That means they should train doctors that will be more likely to remain in the U.S. as care-providers.

That does not necessarily mean that only U.S. citizens should become trained by U.S. schools.

 

[PeripateticMD]

this poll is disgusting. i'm sorry. i think it's a huge insult to any of us who may have immigrant parents or are immigrants ourselves. and in a country where most people came from somewhere else, i think it's just demeaning to have this on here. i'm glad the majority says yes. the people who say no should get their heads out of their ethnocentric arses.

 

[tacrum43]

The answer is obvious, we should just build a giant fence around every US medical school.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

this poll is disgusting. i'm sorry. i think it's a huge insult to any of us who may have immigrant parents or are immigrants ourselves. and in a country where most people came from somewhere else, i think it's just demeaning to have this on here. i'm glad the majority says yes. the people who say no should get their heads out of their ethnocentric arses.

I'm a foreigner and I interpreted the poll differently? I thought it wasn't a racist us v. them question, but rather one that addresses if the U.S. should train doctors that will likely leave the states to go elsewhere and practice.... ie, should they try and train doctors that only will practice here.

 

[PeripateticMD]

I'm a foreigner and I interpreted the poll differently? I thought it wasn't a racist us v. them question, but rather one that addresses if the U.S. should train doctors that will likely leave the states to go elsewhere and practice.... ie, should they try and train doctors that only will practice here.

Come on! anyone who has worked abroad or come from abroad knows that the HUGE majority of foreign trained doctors stay here (in the US). You know, the whole "brain drain" thing? Yes, some doctors go back abroad, but there's many US-born ones that do that too... so if that's the way people are interpreting the pole (like you spatulas), they've got some research to do.

That aside, sure the US wants to train doctors that go abroad! You kidding?! Most big named schools have HUGE international health programs and encourage their students to participate. The US wants to take over the world, or at least have their nose in everyone's business, don't forget it...

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Come on! anyone who has worked abroad or come from abroad knows that the HUGE majority of foreign trained doctors stay here (in the US). You know, the whole "brain drain" thing? Yes, some doctors go back abroad, but there's many US-born ones that do that too... so if that's the way people are interpreting the pole (like you spatulas), they've got some research to do.

That aside, sure the US wants to train doctors that go abroad! You kidding?! Most big named schools have HUGE international health programs and encourage their students to participate. The US wants to take over the world, or at least have their nose in everyone's business, don't forget it...

When I read the poll I initially thought of Canadians I met on the U.S. allopathic med trail and their qualms with this process....

I see your point.

 

[kerplunk112]

accepting only US citizens is a little to restrictive...it doesnt make room for those who have been here longer than the req. period for citizenship but chose not to become one b/c of citizen benefits from other countries.

i obviously have a slightly biased opinion since i have a good friend who has been in the us since middleschool and i would think its ridiculous if he couldnt get into a us school simply b/c he has a green card (permanent resident) and is a british citizen.

if anything we should perhaps slightly favor those living in the US with a greencard/citizenship over those coming DIRECTLY from other countries...

although i dont see why medical schools wouldnt want to pick the best possible canidate... as it benefits all americans in the long run. and pisses the hell out of the countries they are emigrating from...ie brain drain..

 

[DropkickMurphy]

this poll is disgusting. i'm sorry. i think it's a huge insult to any of us who may have immigrant parents or are immigrants ourselves. and in a country where most people came from somewhere else, i think it's just demeaning to have this on here. i'm glad the majority says yes. the people who say no should get their heads out of their ethnocentric arses.

 

[VCgirl]

I am glad that US medical school accepts foreign students. I have living in the US for ten years and plan to work here after I graduate. I am pleased to have been offered admission! It won't be an easy road (loans, finding a US co-signer, not having family close by to help out, ect), but it's worth it in my book.

 

[p9142]

If you really think about it, the foreign students actually subsidize the rest of us. They are the ones who pay full tuition at the private schools, and they aren't allowed into many state schools. At WashU they have to pay all 4 years before they matriculate.

 

[Mayday]

It honestly doesn't matter either way to me, but I do think that if they are going to allow non-americans in, they need to open more spots in the current med schools, or open more med schools. The lack of spots for people that want them is horrible.
(this may have come out badly. If I can think of a better way to re-phrase later, I will)

 

[NineShadows]

Are people really pulling out the "ethnocentrism" and "racism" tags about this thread? Oh please. Our schools, our money, and our people; did I miss something here, is it suddenly our job to train doctors for the rest of the world?

And while I understand the point about most foreign trainees working in America, I would argue that this is actually a bad thing. Why would we want any more competition for residency slots and practices?

By the same token, do foreign schools have an obligation to accept Americans that didn't make it into American schools? I don't see why everyone is getting bent out of shape over the poll.

I am of the opinion that schools would rather have the most qualified applicants, and if that happens to be someone from Timbuktu and not me, oh well! same thing with residency slots. In the end, if my family member is in need of medical care, I'd rather have someone who got in through pure merit versus some "Good old Boy" that got in simply because he doesn't have a funny accent.

Then again, that's just an opinion, and there are a million flavors to choose from.

 

[calcox]

And while I understand the point about most foreign trainees working in America, I would argue that this is actually a bad thing. Why would we want any more competition for residency slots and practices?

Because competition raises the level of quality of physicians, which means patients win. If one is not interested in really competing for things and merely wants to achieve them by default then I do not have mush faith in them. If you have real confidence in your skills, you would be aching to take on all comers...

 

[combatmedic]

Someones ability to save lives or academic intellect can't be judged based on their Citizenship status or country of origin. Its stupid....

 

[MadHopsMD]

Or should it be limited to those of us who are from here?

why dont you want me??????????? Us canadians are good people.

 

[Creightonite]

Opinion of a non-US citizen and non-US residents, for whatever it is worth:

In average, only 80-90 Foreign nationals have actually matriculated into medical school in the past years, IN THE WHOLE US. Last year, this number increased to 180 people. Getting in for intl. individual is getting harder. On average, they have to have to have better stats than their US citizen counter parts. Intl. students can only apply to about 50 schools inthe whole US since they are not qualified to apply to most of state schools. The schools that accept most of intl. people these days tend to be top 20 schools but intl. students have to prepay for all 4 years of tuition and living expenses (around $220,000) up front. I have to tell you that there is no student loan that will give you that much money upfront.

I understand though that med schools, even private ones, do receive some federal funding.

 

[riceman04]

Troll

are you an Ice Cold Bra from A Phi A

 

[riceman04]

this poll is disgusting. i'm sorry. i think it's a huge insult to any of us who may have immigrant parents or are immigrants ourselves. and in a country where most people came from somewhere else, i think it's just demeaning to have this on here. i'm glad the majority says yes. the people who say no should get their heads out of their ethnocentric arses.

It is a question that many people probably consider but never discuss it openly. If we are so capable of discussing aa openly why not discuss this as well.

Are you aware of the whole issue surrounding the "brain drain" effect?

Get real, man up, and discuss

 

[ygiron]

I think the person the started this Thread should be more specific about their question...Do mean those applying from abroad??? or do you mean Permanent Residents like myself that hvae been here for over 20 years (that are non-citizen)??? do mean the undocumentted in this country who also may have been here working and paying taxes???? Or are you encompassing all??? Can you please clear up your question???

 

[Nickelpennykid]

this poll is disgusting. i'm sorry. i think it's a huge insult to any of us who may have immigrant parents or are immigrants ourselves. and in a country where most people came from somewhere else, i think it's just demeaning to have this on here. i'm glad the majority says yes. the people who say no should get their heads out of their ethnocentric arses.

This has nothing to do with immigration. Neither of my grandparents were from this country. It has no to with allowing non-US citizens to attend schools that are partially funded by the federal goverment.