Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions?

[IWant2BeADoctor]

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions?

I don't think Race should be a consideration in Medical School Admissions. Why can't the same standards be applied to all applicants?

By giving out URM status to certian groups. Medical schools give them an unfair advantage over others and while at the same time implying that they should be held to lower standards, that some how they aren't good enough to be held to the same standards as everyone else.

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[happy snake]

No, but who decides if a race of people have had enough time to turn things around or not? Is is that much easier for URMs to get into med schools?

 

[notdeadyet]

Isn't there a forum specially designed for stuff like this?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Isn't there a forum specially designed for stuff like this?

This is going to get UGLY......

 

[uhohspaghettio]

i hope not, since someone said that I sounded like an Asian fob - even though Im not


read this:
http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=405490

 

[notdeadyet]

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions?

Why don't you do a basic search of how this issue has already been discussed on SDN, look through the threads, copy the arguments for/against, and then paste everyone's already expressed opinions into this one?

When you're done, we can all come back to look it over and let you know if we have anything to add?

Seriously. This has been done to death....

 

[IWant2BeADoctor]

Isn't there a forum specially designed for stuff like this?

Yes it's called the Pre-Med forum.

This is going to get UGLY......

Anything controversial always does.

 

[HailMary]

Hey everyone, it's your friendly Devil's Advocate:

I went to a talk recently (I'm too lazy to find the link) that discussed factors that influenced certain populations' participation in clinical trials. It turns out that patients are overwhelmingly more likely to sign up if their doctor is the same gender/race that they are.

If this is indeed true, then it's in best interest of research to have diversity in medicine so that blacks/latinos/women will be able to be studied more. And since races are not naturally representing in equal numbers, med schools should be allowed to consider that.

Note: I'm a white female, and the jury is still out on my personal opinion (I can def see both sides), but I thought I'd bring up an example of why it could be seen as valid.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yes it's called the Pre-Med forum.

No, I was thinking of the one cryptically entitled "Underrepresented in Healthcare"

 

[uhohspaghettio]

it's in best interest of research to have diversity in medicine so that blacks/latinos/women

what I don't get is how are women considered minorities? Someone here once mentioned that even for asians, asian MALES have much harder time than asian FEMALES in getting admissions to med schools. It is such a BS. Why? Because they are hot? hmm.Rest assured. these asian females have more noticeable "asian-fob" accents than me

 

[IWant2BeADoctor]

No, I was thinking of the one cryptically entitled "Underrepresented in Healthcare"

That's for people who are URM in Healthcare. This question is addressed to all Pre-Meds regardless of Race.

Read before you make uninformed assertions . Have you even browsed that sub-forum?

Hey everyone, it's your friendly Devil's Advocate:



I went to a talk recently (I'm too lazy to find the link) that discussed factors that influenced certain populations' participation in clinical trials. It turns out that patients are overwhelmingly more likely to sign up if their doctor is the same gender/race that they are.



If this is indeed true, then it's in best interest of research to have diversity in medicine so that blacks/latinos/women will be able to be studied more. And since races are not naturally representing in equal numbers, med schools should be allowed to consider that.



Note: I'm a white female, and the jury is still out on my personal opinion (I can def see both sides), but I thought I'd bring up an example of why it could be seen as valid.

Are Blacks,Latinos, ect being graded harder in College? If so why can't they be held to the same GPA, MCAT Standards as other applicants.

Med School is practically half female. They are by no means under represented. What is under-represented supposed to mean anyways? Is there some kind of % of Med school that has to be black,latino,ect?

Do non-blacks get Under represented status in the NBA or College Basketball? I don't think so. Why should med school be any different?

 

[Sir Buckethead]

Geez. I'm a n00b but to hear you geezers talk no original topic has gone up on sdn in years. For serious. Every thread.

Nuguy22: "Hay guys I'm a quadruple amputee and I was wondering if dental schools would consider my 24 weeks of agonizing physical therapy learning to use my lips to walk and letting myself love again as clinical experience."

Chorus: "do a damn search."

 

[uhohspaghettio]

Geez. I'm a n00b but to hear you geezers talk no original topic has gone up on sdn in years. For serious. Every thread.

Nuguy22: "Hay guys I'm a quadruple amputee and I was wondering if dental schools would consider my 24 weeks of agonizing physical therapy learning to use my lips to walk and letting myself love again as clinical experience."

Chorus: "do a damn search."

 

[notdeadyet]

That's for people who are URM in Healthcare. This question is addressed to all Pre-Meds regardless of Race.

Actually, it's not. It was set-up for any discussions regarding URMs in healthcare, including affirmative action.

[edit: Actually, all AA discussions are now supposed to be in the Sociopolitical forum, as per Lee...]

But see, when folks start affirmative action threads, it's not out of interest in learning more about the subject. It's to post why they don't like it in the hopes that they'll get others who feel the same way. This way, the OP can feel validated and all warm and fuzzy inside.

Affirmative action threads rarely get started in the Underrepresented in Healthcare forum, where they belong, because folks who are against affirmative action tend not to read or post in that forum (hmmmm...). And the idea of starting a thread about something you're against in the midst of people who are more likely to be for it is just intimidating. You don't get the ego stroke of lots of people agreeing with you.

 

[MSTPbound]

That's for people who are URM in Healthcare. This question is addressed to all Pre-Meds regardless of Race.

Read before you make uninformed assertions . Have you even browsed that sub-forum?

Hi IWant2BeADoctor. Any moment now, someone may have enough sympathy for your lack of desire to do a proper search to post a link to 300 zillion past discussions that have treated this very topic.

Good luck.

-MSTPbound

 

[notdeadyet]

Geez. I'm a n00b but to hear you geezers talk no original topic has gone up on sdn in years. For serious. Every thread.

I know where you're coming from. But the whole affirmative action thing comes up soooooo often and no one has anything new to add to it. It's just plain boring to anyone who's been here for more than a couple of months, which is as long as we go before someone starts yet another one of these.

 

[notdeadyet]

Any moment now, someone may have enough sympathy for your lack of desire to do a proper search to post a link to 300 zillion past discussions that have treated this very topic.

Wasted energy. Folks who start threads like this do so to talk, not read.

 

[Steiner]

Kill Whitey!!!!!

 

[joj884]

just poll then and save the talking for other threads

 

[Steiner]

That's one small step for man, one giant...........I have a dream!!

 

[samwise2]

Wasted energy. Folks who start threads like this do so to talk, not read.

You know, a lot of the things being said here are not even true... For instance, being a woman gets you squat in terms of being underrep'd in the med school application process. I think that these threads are something of a means to vent anger for some people. I suppose it's better that they lash out anonymously rather than in person, but even so, waste of time... What is the point of discussing it really?

 

[SketchLazy]

Geez. I'm a n00b but to hear you geezers talk no original topic has gone up on sdn in years. For serious. Every thread.

Nuguy22: "Hay guys I'm a quadruple amputee and I was wondering if dental schools would consider my 24 weeks of agonizing physical therapy learning to use my lips to walk and letting myself love again as clinical experience."

Chorus: "do a damn search."

I don't get why every time someone posts something that has been said before...everyone chimes in with some witty comment about the existence of and how to find the search function. Sometimes people post to discuss/argue/totally flame/etc.. not to research old opinions. It's almost like asking someone to refer to old news clips concerning an issue of abortion instead of talking about it. That's boring as hell. Almost every issue has been talked to death by people since the beginning of time, why can't people just post $*it? People can use the search but people also have the option of ignoring posts. So what's the big deal? Is he wasting valuable hard-drive memory and bandwidth?

 

[Dart1516]

You really enjoy making these kinds of posts, don't you?
One can't help but sense a silent agenda.
Carry on.

 

[uhohspaghettio]

hmmm

 

[doinmybest5840]

I don't think race, ethnicity, or religion should be considered at any schools, with the exception of religious private schools asking about religion.

 

[Davjc2009]

Are Blacks,Latinos, ect being graded harder in College? If so why can't they be held to the same GPA, MCAT Standards as other applicants.

Med School is practically half female. They are by no means under represented. What is under-represented supposed to mean anyways? Is there some kind of % of Med school that has to be black,latino,ect?

Do non-blacks get Under represented status in the NBA or College Basketball? I don't think so. Why should med school be any different?

It's not like the URMs that get accepted are crappy applicants, they are well qualified, it's not as big as an advantage as non-URMs(like myself) like to believe.

If you wanted a real issue, maybe you should investigate the aforementioned "student" athletes in college and the free pass that they get for being able to be able to dunk from the free-throw line.

 

[Mardi-Bob]

I don't think race, ethnicity, or religion should be considered at any schools, with the exception of religious private schools asking about religion.

Your right.... lets just ignore the fact that the human race is actually made up of a bunch of different races and cultures.

URM's are designated largely because there populations have less access to doctors and healthcare in general.

If you guys (who believe race shouldn't be a factor.... i.e. white/asians/indians mostly) want to be a doctor... aren't you supposed to want to care for the under served.... oh wait. But you have to live in a safe neighborhood for your family.... and you need a certain lifestyle.... and BOOM Welcome to Suburbia!

 

[riceman04]

That's for people who are URM in Healthcare. This question is addressed to all Pre-Meds regardless of Race.

Read before you make uninformed assertions . Have you even browsed that sub-forum?



Are Blacks,Latinos, ect being graded harder in College? If so why can't they be held to the same GPA, MCAT Standards as other applicants.

Med School is practically half female. They are by no means under represented. What is under-represented supposed to mean anyways? Is there some kind of % of Med school that has to be black,latino,ect?

Do non-blacks get Under represented status in the NBA or College Basketball? I don't think so. Why should med school be any different?

Do non-blacks get Under represented status in the NBA or College Basketball? I don't think so. Why should med school be any different?

Poor analogy...you are trying to compare two completely differents facets of society to one another...I know you know the diff btwn these two social entities....hello!!!! HEALTHCARE VS entertainment...which one is a necessity and which one is not?

 

[riceman04]

I don't think race, ethnicity, or religion should be considered at any schools, with the exception of religious private schools asking about religion.

And!!!!....so now explain the reasoning behind your argument

 

[Dimness]

Poor analogy...you are trying to compare two completely differents facets of society to one another...I know you know the diff btwn these two social entities....hello!!!! HEALTHCARE VS entertainment...which one is a necessity and which one is not?

I think that's a valid analogy, and I'm glad somebody finally mentioned it. You can't just dismiss it that easily. Saying one's a necessity and the other isn't is a poor way of arguing about the original premise.

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions? No. It's perfectly fine the way it is, even if it pisses me off that I've been wanting to get in for four years, and every class that's ahead of me has had three or four people fail out.

And it's the same way for professional sports. It should be merit based only.

 

[Mardi-Bob]

I think that's a valid analogy, and I'm glad somebody finally mentioned it. You can't just dismiss it that easily. Saying one's a necessity and the other isn't is a poor way of arguing about the original premise.

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions? No. It's perfectly fine the way it is, even if it pisses me off that I've been wanting to get in for four years, and every class that's ahead of me has had three or four people fail out.

And it's the same way for professional sports. It should be merit based only.

You just contradicted yourself.... which is it?

Figures.... I mean if your so simple minded to think that Medical School admissions could be compared to getting into the NBA.... I mean come on!

The whole URM status wasn't just pulled from thin air... its the results of many studies and implemented b/c it is believe to be in the best interest for future healthcare.

 

[riceman04]

I think that's a valid analogy, and I'm glad somebody finally mentioned it. You can't just dismiss it that easily. Saying one's a necessity and the other isn't is a poor way of arguing about the original premise.

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions? No. It's perfectly fine the way it is, even if it pisses me off that I've been wanting to get in for four years, and every class that's ahead of me has had three or four people fail out.

And it's the same way for professional sports. It should be merit based only.

No you see the problem is that you are attempting to make everything seem black and white...when that is clearly far from the truth!!!! What are the social implications of not utilizing race selecting individuals who play in the NBA?

 

[doinmybest5840]

And!!!!....so now explain the reasoning behind your argument

I don't think being of a particular race or ethnicity makes you any more or less capable of being a doctor. If you feel it makes you better able to relate to patients or has something to do with your decision to pursue medicine, you can discuss it in your personal statement. It should not be something asked or listed on an application because it is wrong to pass an application into the next pile (e.g. from primary to secondary or secondary to interview) because they are of a particular race or ethnicity, even though the rest of their application is below average. If you're not good enough to get into a medical school, then you shouldn't be let in, regardless of your race or ethnicity. To let someone into medical school (or any other school or job, for that matter) to increase diversity is a bad idea when the student is not capable of succeeding or doing well at that school. What is the point of letting them in when they'll just end up doing poorly in classes, being disruptive, or dropping out? How does that help diversity? That being said, I am by no means implying that everyone who lists certain races/ethnicities are incapable, but some are (just as some non-URM students are). Plenty of URM students work just as hard (or harder) than non-URM students and end up being just as successful (if not more) as those non-URM students. However, those students who don't work hard, and aren't capable, are just wasting their own and others' time, resources, and effort, whether they're URM or not.

Long-winded point: non-URM students with below average applications are less likely to be accepted than URM students with the same application, when neither should be accepted in the first place.

 

[Mardi-Bob]

I don't think being of a particular race or ethnicity makes you any more or less capable of being a doctor. If you feel it makes you better able to relate to patients or has something to do with your decision to pursue medicine, you can discuss it in your personal statement. It should not be something asked or listed on an application because it is wrong to pass an application into the next pile (e.g. from primary to secondary or secondary to interview) because they are of a particular race or ethnicity, even though the rest of their application is below average. If you're not good enough to get into a medical school, then you shouldn't be let in, regardless of your race or ethnicity. To let someone into medical school (or any other school or job, for that matter) to increase diversity is a bad idea when the student is not capable of succeeding or doing well at that school. What is the point of letting them in when they'll just end up doing poorly in classes, being disruptive, or dropping out? How does that help diversity? That being said, I am by no means implying that everyone who lists certain races/ethnicities are incapable, but some are (just as some non-URM students are). Plenty of URM students work just as hard (or harder) than non-URM students and end up being just as successful (if not more) as those non-URM students. However, those students who don't work hard, and aren't capable, are just wasting their own and others' time, resources, and effort, whether they're URM or not.

Long-winded point: non-URM students with below average applications are less likely to be accepted than URM students with the same application, when neither should be accepted in the first place.

I'm ignoring this to avoid ripping you a new one.

Point: You miss understand the point of URM... please consult your local AAMC representitive and ask him/her why URM status exists.

 

[Dimness]

You just contradicted yourself.... which is it?

Figures.... I mean if your so simple minded to think that Medical School admissions could be compared to getting into the NBA.... I mean come on!

The whole URM status wasn't just pulled from thin air... its the results of many studies and implemented b/c it is believe to be in the best interest for future healthcare.

My apologies. I honestly forgot about that section on the AMCAS. If that's the case, my answer still stands as no with the modifier that only merit should be considered and URM should be removed.

Figures.... I mean if your so simple minded to think that Medical School admissions could be compared to getting into the NBA.... I mean come on!

Why not? Why should adcoms look beyond merit? And I'll excuse the insulting tone. It speaks for itself.

Athletes, and I'll limit myself to the NFL as an example, are evaluated on a whole lot of things. 40 times, vertical leaps, the team they were on, offensive/defensive systems, the Wonderlic test, personal interviews, game film, fundamentals, etc etc. And yes, there is inequity in these situations (Division I versus Division II, Major vs. Mid-Major conference). All of these things are irregardless of race.

Sounds very similar to medical school. Only the names of the numbers have changed.

Don't get me wrong. I'd actually appreciate it if someone actually explained in plain English why URM is a good idea. Otherwise, balls in your court.

 

[riceman04]

I don't think being of a particular race or ethnicity makes you any more or less capable of being a doctor. If you feel it makes you better able to relate to patients or has something to do with your decision to pursue medicine, you can discuss it in your personal statement. It should not be something asked or listed on an application because it is wrong to pass an application into the next pile (e.g. from primary to secondary or secondary to interview) because they are of a particular race or ethnicity, even though the rest of their application is below average. If you're not good enough to get into a medical school, then you shouldn't be let in, regardless of your race or ethnicity. To let someone into medical school (or any other school or job, for that matter) to increase diversity is a bad idea when the student is not capable of succeeding or doing well at that school. What is the point of letting them in when they'll just end up doing poorly in classes, being disruptive, or dropping out? How does that help diversity? That being said, I am by no means implying that everyone who lists certain races/ethnicities are incapable, but some are (just as some non-URM students are). Plenty of URM students work just as hard (or harder) than non-URM students and end up being just as successful (if not more) as those non-URM students. However, those students who don't work hard, and aren't capable, are just wasting their own and others' time, resources, and effort, whether they're URM or not.

Long-winded point: non-URM students with below average applications are less likely to be accepted than URM students with the same application, when neither should be accepted in the first place.

I do applaud your efforts in presenting your argument...but I do question much of what you present.

I just wanted to hear your opinion since you are new (or at least I have never paid any attention to you on the board before if you are not new)

On a lighter note...I am still smiling from ear to ear about the triumph of the Trojans over the overrated Wolverines at the Rose Bowl...I'm not sure you are a sports fan...but I just wanted to get that off my chest since I have to see your avatar

 

[riceman04]

My apologies. I honestly forgot about that section on the AMCAS. If that's the case, my answer still stands as no with the modifier that only merit should be considered and URM should be removed.



Why not? Why should adcoms look beyond merit? And I'll excuse the insulting tone. It speaks for itself.

Athletes, and I'll limit myself to the NFL as an example, are evaluated on a whole lot of things. 40 times, vertical leaps, the team they were on, offensive/defensive systems, the Wonderlic test, personal interviews, game film, fundamentals, etc etc. And yes, there is inequity in these situations (Division I versus Division II, Major vs. Mid-Major conference). All of these things are irregardless of race.

Sounds very similar to medical school. Only the names of the numbers have changed.

Don't get me wrong. I'd actually appreciate it if someone actually explained in plain English why URM is a good idea. Otherwise, balls in your court.

I am starting to realize that my efforts to get you to think beyond the box in which your mind is stuck, have proven useless.

One thing I have learned is that premeds, med students, and especially doctors share a very common characteristic - we are all stubborn as hell and usuallly unwilling to focus on a bigger picture if we did not discover it on our own. I think it is best for me to leave this alone b/c (as usual) nothing will be accomplished. I don't like watching my fingers type if nothing will be accomplished.

Good luck in the app process (if you are applying). Maybe I will see you on the interview trail...maybe I won't...But in the mean time, what is your tee time tomorrow?

 

[Mardi-Bob]

My apologies. I honestly forgot about that section on the AMCAS. If that's the case, my answer still stands as no with the modifier that only merit should be considered and URM should be removed.



Why not? Why should adcoms look beyond merit? And I'll excuse the insulting tone. It speaks for itself.

Athletes, and I'll limit myself to the NFL as an example, are evaluated on a whole lot of things. 40 times, vertical leaps, the team they were on, offensive/defensive systems, the Wonderlic test, personal interviews, game film, fundamentals, etc etc. And yes, there is inequity in these situations (Division I versus Division II, Major vs. Mid-Major conference). All of these things are irregardless of race.

Sounds very similar to medical school. Only the names of the numbers have changed.

Don't get me wrong. I'd actually appreciate it if someone actually explained in plain English why URM is a good idea. Otherwise, balls in your court.

I changed my mind... I like your basketball analogy now!

Well to put it plainly... to get a full explaination you need to consult with the AAMC... they make all the rules and not w/o doing the research first.

Here is URM101...at least I'll try.... Basically URM's have piss poor access to healthcare and doctors in general. Our old system of put all white, men through medical school did nothing to help this problem.
So with the idea of actually helping those who most urgently need healthcare the AAMC decided that getting URM doctors was a way that they could address this issue.
Sadly, often these URM grow up in rough, poor neighborhoods where they cannot see the future they could have as a doctor. All they see are the high crime, and are most vulnerable to drugs and a life of crime. Its for this reason some lower stats are allowed for URM because for many of them just getting out of college is a HUGE deal and speaks well for their work ethic and ability to succeed.

I hardly covered the whole topic... so do not try to poke holes in this.....I will not respond to any criticism.... if you are truly curious seek out the experts at the AAMC.

 

[Dr2Bee]

Anybody know if adcoms distinguish between a rich URM and a poor URM? If they are both held to the same standards, now that is unfair.

 

[Mardi-Bob]

Anybody know if adcoms distinguish between a rich URM and a poor URM? If they are both held to the same standards, now that is unfair.

I highly doubt that they would.

 

[lina123321]

Anybody know if adcoms distinguish between a rich URM and a poor URM? If they are both held to the same standards, now that is unfair.

it would suck if they didn't, but then again, they don't really have your financial info, so i guess not...

 

[SupernovaNights]

Should Race Be A Consideration In Medical School Admissions?

I don't think Race should be a consideration in Medical School Admissions. Why can't the same standards be applied to all applicants?

By giving out URM status to certian groups. Medical schools give them an unfair advantage over others and while at the same time implying that they should be held to lower standards, that some how they aren't good enough to be held to the same standards as everyone else.

Race blind and need blind admissions, all the way.

 

[doinmybest5840]

I do applaud your efforts in presenting your argument...but I do question much of what you present.

I just wanted to hear your opinion since you are new (or at least I have never paid any attention to you on the board before if you are not new)

On a lighter note...I am still smiling from ear to ear about the triumph of the Trojans over the overrated Wolverines at the Rose Bowl...I'm not sure you are a sports fan...but I just wanted to get that off my chest since I have to see your avatar

I am relatively new, I joined earlier this month.

I am a sports fan, but I'm not that hardcore or bitter about losing. I love going to games and rooting on my team, but in all honesty, I can admit when we didn't play well enough to win. I didn't watch the game you're referring to, but from what I heard, we did not play well enough to win, so our lose was deserved.

 

[BigRedPremed]

Anybody know if adcoms distinguish between a rich URM and a poor URM? If they are both held to the same standards, now that is unfair.

There's no reason to. The aim of affirmative action in med school admissions isn't to reward people for overcoming adversity. They simply want people with black skin or Hispanic features because patients have said that they trust doctors with the same color skin or look as themselves. Why would it matter if a URM were rich or poor?

 

[riceman04]

Race blind and need blind admissions, all the way.

b/c it benefits you and not necessarily the rest of society...this is pathetic...and I am not sure why I keep wanting to chime in.

Where's my popcorn?

It's grilling season now too!!!!!!

Where are my ribs????

 

[NervousNed]

I do applaud your efforts in presenting your argument...but I do question much of what you present.

I just wanted to hear your opinion since you are new (or at least I have never paid any attention to you on the board before if you are not new)

On a lighter note...I am still smiling from ear to ear about the triumph of the Trojans over the overrated Wolverines at the Rose Bowl...I'm not sure you are a sports fan...but I just wanted to get that off my chest since I have to see your avatar

I'm sorry, the wolverines lost in the ROSE BOWL, against USC.

Rice lost against a sorry ass Troy (no one even knows who this is), in the who-the-hell cares bowl.

Id say sports isnt your arena at all there at rice, so best get to steppin'

 

[SupernovaNights]

b/c it benefits you and not necessarily the rest of society...this is pathetic...and I am not sure why I keep wanting to chime in.

Where's my popcorn?

It's grilling season now too!!!!!!

Where are my ribs????

Actually, it would NOT benefit me. It would actually harm me.

I think that every person should be judged on their own merits. If we are so concerned about racism, we should leave off the "race" blank. Race is meaningless anyway. If anything is meaningful, its "poverty" and economic status.

 

[MSTPbound]

There's no reason to. The aim of affirmative action in med school admissions isn't to reward people for overcoming adversity. They simply want people with black skin or Hispanic features because patients have said that they trust doctors with the same color skin or look as themselves. Why would it matter if a URM were rich or poor?

But WHO CARES what the patients need?

 

[MSTPbound]

There's no reason to. The aim of affirmative action in med school admissions isn't to reward people for overcoming adversity. They simply want people with black skin or Hispanic features because patients have said that they trust doctors with the same color skin or look as themselves. Why would it matter if a URM were rich or poor?

(And in the unlikely scenario that my sarcasm in the previous post was missed)... sometimes the most elegant answer to a controversial issue is the simple truth.

 

[badasshairday]

I don't think race should be considered because I'm not sure if URM status is helpping the right people. I feel that people are disadvantaged by coming from lower socioeconomics, not skin color. Although many URM's come from a low socioeconomic background, not all do. Disadvantaged students should have a little more leeway to get into medschool. However with that being said, I know many black and latino friends who are not from disadvantaged backgrounds at all and are reaping the benefits of being a URM while I know poorer asian folk who do not get any special treatment.