To start off, the AAMC says, "The current URM definition consists of Blacks, Mexican Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indian, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians) and mainland Puerto Ricans." So contrary to previous statements on these boards, Pacific Islanders other than Hawaiians are NOT considered URMs, nor are many Hispanics.
Originally posted by Mangs
Someone in an earlier post posed a good question, how many of the non-URMS who are so vocally opposed to AA have visted urban areas, rural areas, and other parts of the United States where URMs have been relegated to as marginal members of society??
I've lived in Newark, in Bed-Stuy, in Manhattan just below Harlem (when it was still bad), and in some of the worst areas in Hawaii (yes, they really do exist). My fiance was born in Brownsville and is Black. Neither of us agree on AA for medical school, and both of us are politically quite liberal.
Without belaboring the importance of HISTORY
We shouldn't forget the horrendous history of non-URM minorities in the U.S. either- oh wait, most people never knew THAT history. I guess it isn't relevant.
But then, it isn't- as DarkChild said, "AA isnt about reparations, its about representation." (Without reparations, many SDNer's pro-AA arguments are shot) Which again begs the question, to what end? From everything I've read on the subject, to the end of better serving patients. And I will, as usual, argue that favor should be shown according to 1) economics, and 2) area of origin, as ANYONE FROM ANYWHERE IS MORE LIKELY TO RETURN TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM. Those from underserved communities are more likely to go back and serve those same communities, no matter what race they are.
If anyone out there disputes the fact that there is a huge difference in terms of allocation of resources, based on the economic power of communities in Flatbush Brooklyn vs. Scarsdale New York, then I think you are truly speaking from a point of misinformation.
Nope, not disputing that. Just disputing the logic that poor areas with majority URMs = all URMs are from poor areas. For example, would you make the economic argument about my close childhood friend? He was half black/half white, raised by two white parent, lived on the same block as I (the mostly white with a bit of AI genetics girl) did, and went to the same school that I did. Oh yes, and was about 10 times more popular than I was, and wore much cooler clothes.
There seems to be an assumption that because many members of a group have had certain hardships, ALL members of that group should receive "credit" for said hardships. If you want the argument to be about economics (which it's not, according to AAMC), then make it about economics.
Before you continue to blunder and speak only from an emotional platform, you should educate yourself about circumstances beyond your realm.
Indeed Mangs, you should. Your arguments aren't in line with the AAMC argument for AA in medical school, despite what many people on these boards seem to believe.
There's a reason why there is an immense gap between the health outcomes of African American males in America and their white counterparts.
Which isn't entirely- many would argue mostly- dependent on their relationships with their physicians. The stats I've read on the subject point to lesser degrees of education, which, of course, goes back to economics, as well as history. But not
Did you know that a young black male in Harlem has a life expectancy comperable to a male of the same age in a developing or "third world" country??
Yes, I knew that, although I wonder if there has been any change in those stats since the most recent gentrification began (seems to have made a difference in Brownsville, although that's just be hearsay on my part). Not to mention that the crack wars of the 80's sure didn't help those stats.
Does that make sense? Here in the US, the land of opportunity? Many many people of color are slipping through the cracks, suffering from ill health which of course is tied into larger fundamental causes, ie poverty, inequities, lack of access to health care..
Which isn't the exclusive sufferance of URMs. There are many non-URMs, minority and non (even here on these boards!), that are slipping through those same cracks. Never mind that even middle class families (of whatever race) often go uninsured now. Indeed, there are many people who have had to quit working so as to qualify for Medicaid in order to receive chronic care. But that has nothing to do with AA, does it?
Why is it that a large percentage of physicians in this country were white for so long? Do we not see that as strange?
Not in the least. Just like I don't see the historic paucity of female physicians as strange. The U.S. was (and is) a strongly patriarchal, WASPy society. We're working on it, although we may disagree on how to do so.
Particularly when all of America is not white. It is important to have the physician population reflect America.
If there were only 10 black applicants out of the WHOLE applicant pool this year, do you think all 10 of them should therefore be accepted? What if 5 of them have 2.0 GPAs and 20 MCATs?
The greatest lack seems to be in the applicant pool- percentage wise, there aren't as many URM applicants as there are URM in the general population. If there were, would we then have a quota system, where URMs would compete of URM slots and non-URMs would compete for non-URM slots? If so, this would assume that the average URM applicant was somehow different than the average non-URM applicant in other ways. The logic of such a system just doesn't add up. Nor does the logic of the one in place.
Not for the cute ideal of a more diverse class but because America is diverse.
Interesting that you call the ideal of a more diverse class "cute". One of the arguments made by the AAMC is that class diversity is fundamental in and of itself, as it allows the whole class exposure to more of the human spectrum on an intimate level, thus making everyone better doctors. As usual, the vocal AA proponent appears not to have read the actual AAMC documents.
I'll continue this shortly...
