Should we be worried about the number of Podiatry applications being down this cycle?

[Nervous Pre-Pod]

I have heard the the number of podiatry applications is down this year. I am planning to apply next cycle. Is this something that I should be worried about? If this trend continues could this be bad for the podiatry profession's future?

As my name suggests, I'm nervous I love the profession, but I am scared to enter into a dying field. Am I overthinking the low numbers this year or do you guys think this is a real problem for the future of podiatry?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

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[Spartans Will]

I am only a first year student but I can assure you the field is not dying. There is a bill that is close to being passed that would allow DPMs to have parity with MD/DO in the VAs. The future of podiatry seems to be getting better and better. We had APMA (similar to the AMA) reps come talk to my respective school a few weeks ago and assured us the future of the profession is bright and in good hands. I know everything that was said should be taken with a grain of salt but the field is definitely not dying.

As for the the decline of applicants this cycle, I am not sure what the cause is for that. Podiatry is still not well known to the public. I'm sure some of the older and wiser students and/or residents , and attendings can shed more light on this.

 

[Nervous Pre-Pod]

I am only a first year student but I can assure you the field is not dying. There is a bill that is close to being passed that would allow DPMs to have parity with MD/DO in the VAs. The future of podiatry seems to be getting better and better. We had APMA (similar to the AMA) reps come talk to my respective school a few weeks ago and assured us the future of the profession is bright and in good hands. I know everything that was said should be taken with a grain of salt but the field is definitely not dying.

As for the the decline of applicants this cycle, I am not sure what the cause is for that. Podiatry is still not well known to the public. I'm sure some of the older and wiser students and/or residents , and attendings can shed more light on this.

Thank you for the reply. That was definitely what I was hoping to hear! I think that podiatry is a great profession. I really hope that the APMA rep was right and that the bill you talked about passes. Thanks again for your reply!

 

[dr.phoot]

OP, where are you getting your #s from? The app cycle us still running, so I'm assuming nothing concrete has been published about # of applicants, rejects, acceptances, stats, etc. What are you comparing it to to say that there has been a decline?

Another point I'll make is that, feet isn't for everybody. That alone means podiatry will be behind M.D./D.O. you can't escape feet when it comes to podiatry. It's not like traditional medicine where you have options like pathology, radiology, and others. In podiatry you're working with the feet and nothing else. (Some) People are just grossed out by the idea. Raising an awareness to premeds may help but only to an extent.

Podiatry isn't dying.

 

[Nervous Pre-Pod]

OP, where are you getting your #s from? The app cycle us still running, so I'm assuming nothing concrete has been published about # of applicants, rejects, acceptances, stats, etc. What are you comparing it to to say that there has been a decline?

Another point I'll make is that, feet isn't for everybody. That alone means podiatry will be behind M.D./D.O. you can't escape feet when it comes to podiatry. It's not like traditional medicine where you have options like pathology, radiology, and others. In podiatry you're working with the feet and nothing else. (Some) People are just grossed out by the idea. Raising an awareness to premeds may help but only to an extent.

Podiatry isn't dying.

You are right that nothing is concrete yet and I am probably worrying about nothing. I definitely do not have any official statistics. I am only getting my information from other posts here on sdn. I have read that it is down by around 17% from last year, but that could be wrong. (I hope that it is!) Those are just the rumors that I have heard.

Also, thanks for your insights about about a lot of people not liking feet and how that most likely affects the number of applicants as compared to other medical professions. I really appreciated your advice and thoughts on the subject. I think that I just needed to hear from people that have a more positive outlook on podiatry, because I have talked with some negative people lately. I really love what podiatrists do and everyday I'm getting more sure that this is the profession for me! I just want to make sure that I make the right decision, because it is so important.

 

[TimmyTurner]

I can confirm the 17% down- that number was directly from APMA around Jan 15th, and it was 17% total applicants down from that time last year.
Recently, an APMA representative, off the record, bluntly stated to me that it was a "applicant crisis". Not good. However, it does not mean the field is dying- it just means we are not attracting applicants the way we should. I chalk this up to two main factors:
I think there are a myriad of factors but I think a combination of two are the main drivers of the dip in applications:

1) APMA has not, historically, invested a ton of resources into marketing, branding, outreach, etc. I don't say this as a slight to them- we have just fought so hard for scope of practice and reimbursement rights over the years that this has been on the back burner for some time.
The APMA recognizes this and are actively seeking means to reach more undergrads and drive applications up, kudos to them. I think this year will be an anomaly rather than the start of a downward trend. However... generally speaking, if there is less competition for spots, the less freedom schools have to only select the highest scoring applicants. They are a business too, after all. Those seats have to get filled so everyone can sit at the table and eat. If you have taken the MCAT and have all pre reqs- I strongly recommend applying this cycle.
2) Point #1 combined with the emerging Popularity/Demand/Respect of other health related fields. PA, OT, PT, and all the advanced nursing fields (CRNA, APRN, DNP, Midwife). They make a comparable salary to us, and in terms of intermediate range Return On Investment, they are the more fiscally sensible choice (long term though, DPM is still more lucrative, fiscally speaking.) The main difference is the earning ceiling- Pods have an almost unlimited earning capacity considering the possibility to partner in groups or start their own (see the illustrious career of @diabeticfootdr ). Any of the other above mention fields would not have those same opportunities (except OT or PT which could conceivably start their own rehab clinics).

All of that combined with the fact we have a branding problem. From an APMA rep recently.... "I've dedicated my whole life to educating the public about Podiatry, and they still don't know what it is". At the end of the day, we still get to do surgery, bill as physicians, practice independently. But it's simply a branding issue that is being worked on. Again, I'd bet this year is an anomaly more than the start of a trend. Podiatry is NOT dead and dying. Quite the opposite. There's literally never been a better time to enter this profession.

 

[Nippyfan]

Wow, this seems to be THE year to get in while the getting is good!

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Gota take that MCAT...ASAP..lol

 

[Nippyfan]

Wait till AACOMAS does away with grade replacement this upcoming app cycle...LOL. Im anxious to see the stats for AACPMAS apps for the upcoming year with that new hurdle AACOMAS has added.

 

[TimmyTurner]

Wait till AACOMAS does away with grade replacement this upcoming app cycle...LOL. Im anxious to see the stats for AACPMAS apps for the upcoming year with that new hurdle AACOMAS has added.

Yup. That alone should drive up Apps. My guess is there may be a lag time- the DPM students profiled as MD/DO rejects that turn to DPM may try DO anyway next cycle, and find their way into our applicant pool in the subsequent cycle

 

[SLCpod]

I can confirm the 17% down- that number was directly from APMA around Jan 15th, and it was 17% total applicants down from that time last year.
Recently, an APMA representative, off the record, bluntly stated to me that it was a "applicant crisis". Not good. However, it does not mean the field is dying- it just means we are not attracting applicants the way we should. I chalk this up to two main factors:
I think there are a myriad of factors but I think a combination of two are the main drivers of the dip in applications:

1) APMA has not, historically, invested a ton of resources into marketing, branding, outreach, etc. I don't say this as a slight to them- we have just fought so hard for scope of practice and reimbursement rights over the years that this has been on the back burner for some time.
The APMA recognizes this and are actively seeking means to reach more undergrads and drive applications up, kudos to them. I think this year will be an anomaly rather than the start of a downward trend. However... generally speaking, if there is less competition for spots, the less freedom schools have to only select the highest scoring applicants. They are a business too, after all. Those seats have to get filled so everyone can sit at the table and eat. If you have taken the MCAT and have all pre reqs- I strongly recommend applying this cycle.
2) Point #1 combined with the emerging Popularity/Demand/Respect of other health related fields. PA, OT, PT, and all the advanced nursing fields (CRNA, APRN, DNP, Midwife). They make a comparable salary to us, and in terms of intermediate range Return On Investment, they are the more fiscally sensible choice (long term though, DPM is still more lucrative, fiscally speaking.) The main difference is the earning ceiling- Pods have an almost unlimited earning capacity considering the possibility to partner in groups or start their own (see the illustrious career of @diabeticfootdr ). Any of the other above mention fields would not have those same opportunities (except OT or PT which could conceivably start their own rehab clinics).

All of that combined with the fact we have a branding problem. From an APMA rep recently.... "I've dedicated my whole life to educating the public about Podiatry, and they still don't know what it is". At the end of the day, we still get to do surgery, bill as physicians, practice independently. But it's simply a branding issue that is being worked on. Again, I'd bet this year is an anomaly more than the start of a trend. Podiatry is NOT dead and dying. Quite the opposite. There's literally never been a better time to enter this profession.

I really don't think you can make an assumption that there are less applicants until the end of the cycle. Who knows how many will apply in the coming months. Seats will be filled.

 

[Future Foot Guy]

I really don't think you can make an assumption that there are less applicants until the end of the cycle. Who knows how many will apply in the coming months. Seats will be filled.

According to some posters Temple has/is interviews applicants with 491-493 range. In the last catalog their lowest was 495. That may tell you something.

Also no offense to whoever is interviewing in that range. Just using you as stat point.

 

[SLCpod]

According to some posters Temple has/is interviews applicants with 491-493 range. In the last catalog their lowest was 495. That may tell you something.

Also no offense to whoever is interviewing in that range. Just using you as stat point.

There will always be a few in the class that have lower stats. That doesn't indicate whether or not the applicant pool has decreased. It will be exciting when the cycle closes and the applicant numbers are posted.

 

[Weirdy]

According to some posters Temple has/is interviews applicants with 491-493 range. In the last catalog their lowest was 495. That may tell you something.

Also no offense to whoever is interviewing in that range. Just using you as stat point.

I firmly believe that 491-493 is minimum they will take. It was like that for Barry and Kent when I asked as well.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Gota take that MCAT...ASAP..lol

When do you take it? I take mine April 28th, but wish I had just taken it already... haha

 

[El Barrio]

Talked with with one of the people who work in admissions at NYCPM a few weeks ago and he confirmed pretty much that apps were down again like last year, but noted NYCPM had more deposits than Temple. From the few times I talked with them seems like the Temple V NYCPM admissions rivalry is fierce lol.

But after having a look at the match results over on the other subforum, where there were more 2017 graduates to residency spots this year (not even including the unmatched from previous years) it is to your benefit if the admissions are down your year as its less competition for residency down the line. The only ones who should really be worried are the schools who will be losing tuition money from empty seats. Don't look too far ahead into the future. At the end of the day, you need to worry about yourself first by graduating and getting a residency. You can worry about about helping the field out as a whole teaching/raising awareness after you have your licence to practice.

 

[TimmyTurner]

I really don't think you can make an assumption that there are less applicants until the end of the cycle. Who knows how many will apply in the coming months. Seats will be filled.

I hear you. But these aren't assumptions. These are from APMA and AACPM representatives, school Deans and AdComs. You're right- maybe that missing 17% is all waiting to apply until the end of the cycle- but probably not.

Even if they all do apply then... Doesn't change the fact we need to push our field harder to undergrads, drive up the applicant pool and increase our admissions standards.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Even if they all do apply then... Doesn't change the fact we need to push our field harder to undergrads, drive up the applicant pool and increase our admissions standards.

Yeah, but lets wait til after next cycle when I apply!

 

[Nowehjose]

I take my MCAT March 31st and have interviews set up at Temple/Kent... I'm also a biochem major with a 3.5 GPA. There is no advertisement of Podiatry, I went to a school of 40,000 students and always assumed it was Ortho. Maybe give back as alumni to your UG schools and hold a info session.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I take my MCAT March 31st and have interviews set up at Temple/Kent... I'm also a biochem major with a 3.5 GPA. There is no advertisement of Podiatry, I went to a school of 40,000 students and always assumed it was Ortho. Maybe give back as alumni to your UG schools and hold a info session.

They give interviews without an MCAT on file? I didn't know that! I should apply

 

[pacpod]

Regarding the VA Provider Equity Act (HR 1058). This bill passed the house on a voice vote last congress but died in Senate committee after opposition from ortho. This current bill (HR 1058) was introduced last month and is sitting in the health subcommittee of the House Committee on VA. I hope this is able to gain traction and pass. The trouble will be overcoming the expected ortho push back should it gain steam again.
Write your congressmen!

 

[dr.phoot]

I take my MCAT March 31st and have interviews set up at Temple/Kent... I'm also a biochem major with a 3.5 GPA. There is no advertisement of Podiatry, I went to a school of 40,000 students and always assumed it was Ortho. Maybe give back as alumni to your UG schools and hold a info session.

I have something like this in mind. I want to go back to my Alma mater some day as a brand ambassador for whatever pod school I end up going to. I'm also a URM so I'll be looking into reaching out to the minority community as a mentor too.

I just wanted to add that although reaching out is a good idea, there are three things that really won't change:

(1) feet is just not very popular. There are people who can't stand the sight of their own blood and there are also people who feel the same exact way about feet. No amount of reaching out will bring in a student like that. It's just one of those things where you need a particular taste to appreciate it. Think of certain genres of music or an unsung hero. It's just not a crowd favorite! (This is an important point to bare in mind).

(2) once you're in, you're trapped. There aren't any options & all you'll work with is just feet. You can't branch off into radiology, pathology, whatever. It's feet from start to finish! Most premeds are very indecisive as it is. How can they be so certain that feet is all they want to work with?

(3) lastly the "Real doctor" argument. All the 3 podiatrist I've followed have brought this up. And I've exchanged PMs with some practicing pods on here who have all acknowledged it too. You'll encounter this at some point. How will you feel? It's either you're content and accept who you are and what you do, or you're forever fighting and trying to prove some point that you're a "real doctor" in the eyes of the general public. There were talks about some kind of combined M.D./DPM degree. Why? So a pod could give flu shots? Keep ambition in mind too! One of the doctors pointed out on the physician & resident section that there's nothing podiatry does that's really only a podiatry thing. So many others could do it too!

The better marketing strategy is to be clear from the beginning and not try to dance to the tune of the crowd. Then people that are genuinely interested will come on their own. Those students are what podiatry should be after. To try to persuade M.D./D.O. applicants to give a shot to pod isn't the best approach.

Any form of specialized & separate schooling has less applicants than M.D./D.O. (vet, dent, opto, PhD, & pod). M.D./D.O. are selective because of the volume of applicants. Isn't that how supp & demand works?

Nursing & PA school probably give the more specialized programs a run for their money too in terms of # of applicants.

Tl; dr - This is a really nice career, but it's not for everyone.

 

[TimmyTurner]

Regarding the VA Provider Equity Act (HR 1058). This bill passed the house on a voice vote last congress but died in Senate committee after opposition from ortho. This current bill (HR 1058) was introduced last month and is sitting in the health subcommittee of the House Committee on VA. I hope this is able to gain traction and pass. The trouble will be overcoming the expected ortho push back should it gain steam again.
Write your congressmen!

This bill is a no brainer for both Republicans and Democrats. Only reason it didn't pass was it was Omnibus'd and fell apart. Would be huge for Pods. VA would provide competitive salary (about 181k out of residency, depending on state) AND loan forgiveness.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I have something like this in mind. I want to go back to my Alma mater some day as a brand ambassador for whatever pod school I end up going to. I'm also a URM so I'll be looking into reaching out to the minority community as a mentor too.

I just wanted to add that although reaching out is a good idea, there are three things that really won't change:

(1) feet is just not very popular. There are people who can't stand the sight of their own blood and there are also people who feel the same exact way about feet. No amount of reaching out will bring in a student like that. It's just one of those things where you need a particular taste to appreciate it. Think of certain genres of music or an unsung hero. It's just not a crowd favorite! (This is an important point to bare in mind).

(2) once you're in, you're trapped. There aren't any options & all you'll work with is just feet. You can't branch off into radiology, pathology, whatever. It's feet from start to finish! Most premeds are very indecisive as it is. How can they be so certain that feet is all they want to work with?

(3) lastly the "Real doctor" argument.

Tl; dr - This is a really nice career, but it's not for everyone.

See and to me a lot of this also applies to dentistry, which still has a huuuuge number of applicants and schools and matriculants. Idk many people obsessed with teeth. Dentistry seems like its hook is the "lifestyle and income" appeal. So it does seem like publicizing the position and being more vocal about its existence and place in the medical field is the way to change it. Not to mention the things it has as a career that medicine doesnt

 

[dr.phoot]

Which one of the M.D./D.O. specialties can do what dentistry does?

Dentist don't push the "doctor" card. Ever.

People aren't obsessed with teeth but there's a demand for it. You can't wear shoes to cover your bad teeth. They need to be fixed and are expensive. Have bad toes and corns? Just don't wear open-toed shoes. This means there's a demand hence why there are more dental schools and apps than pod. I'm essentially saying the demand for pod might not be that big. This isn't saying it's a dying field. It's not.

And dentistry, although well known, still falls in the podiatry category in the sense that, (1) it's specialized from first day of school (2) less applicants than M.D./D.O.
(3) more kids on a college campus would be pre m.d./d.o. than pre-dent. I never met any pre-dents and I attended two different colleges. I met PA, pharm, and nursing but never pod or pre-dent.

And I agree, dentist market themselves on the lifestyle but I think that's the wrong way to go for podiatry. The money is there in podiatry alright but it won't fall in your lap if you cruise and relax. You'll have to put in the time. There was a thread where they explained how the dentist charge for services and I think if a pod and dent worked the same hours, the dentist would smash the pod with earning potential because of how they could bill.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

....Only if Dr.House leg "pain" was in his ankle rather than the thigh...Could have been one of the first and the best Podiatry Show on TV!

 

[Nowehjose]

They give interviews without an MCAT on file? I didn't know that! I should apply

Yeah, Just tell them life and stuff happens. I applied to Kent, Temple and NYCPM. Only NYCPM would absolutely not grant an interview without MCAT. I never contacted Kent before, only Temple/NYCM.

 

[Mantis Toeboggan]

Im a 2nd yr at Kent and the field of Pod will not die anytime soon. In fact, demands for Pods will be increased and the major reason is diabetes, diabetes, and diabetes!

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Im a 2nd yr at Kent and the field of Pod will not die anytime soon. In fact, demands for Pods will be increased and the major reason is diabetes, diabetes, and diabetes!

Do you think, if Obamacare stays around, that podiatrists will become the cheaper option compared to F/A orthos, driving up demand for pods?

 

[dr.phoot]

Im a 2nd yr at Kent and the field of Pod will not die anytime soon. In fact, demands for Pods will be increased and the major reason is diabetes, diabetes, and diabetes!

Far from dying out. But when I use the word demand, I mean it in the context that there's supposedly a primary care physician shortage or will be one; pod isn't going anywhere though

 

[Nowehjose]

Diabetic wound care is one of my most interested areas. General wound care docs do not know mechanics as much as pods, which could lead to decreased function after limb salvage... There will always be a need.

 

[Weirdy]

Do you think, if Obamacare stays around, that podiatrists will become the cheaper option compared to F/A orthos, driving up demand for pods?

Depends.

How much is that Obamacare insurance willing to pay for? More coverage =/= better coverage. Anecdotal advice our family's deductibles skyrocketed. Same as a few friends of ours.

Even with Obamacare, demand for elective surgery may stay the same or decrease. Demand for necessary limb salvage/diabetic complications usually go through referral from PCP.

I don't see how Obamacare staying or not staying will affect demand. Insurance companies still get the final say on how much they're willing to pay.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Depends.

How much is that Obamacare insurance willing to pay for? More coverage =/= better coverage. Anecdotal advice our family's deductibles skyrocketed. Same as a few friends of ours.

Even with Obamacare, demand for elective surgery may stay the same or decrease. Demand for necessary limb salvage/diabetic complications usually go through referral from PCP.

I don't see how Obamacare staying or not staying will affect demand. Insurance companies still get the final say on how much they're willing to pay.

I mean more for hospitals? It seems like corporations are hiring more PA's and NP's as cheaper alternatives to PCP's so I am wondering if the same will happen to pods; if hospitals will start preferring podiatrists to F/A orthos because they are cheaper but do similar procedures

 

[feetsreets]

I mean more for hospitals? It seems like corporations are hiring more PA's and NP's as cheaper alternatives to PCP's so I am wondering if the same will happen to pods; if hospitals will start preferring podiatrists to F/A orthos because they are cheaper but do similar procedures

most likely not. a F/A ortho is still capable of taking call and doing plenty of other procedures that are not strictly F/A. They can do anything any other ortho that hasnt done a fellowship can do. Hospitals will pay you based on how much money they can make off of you. A F/A ortho has the capabilities to perform a lot more than a podiatrist can, and thus can make more money for the hospital even though they are generally payed a lot more. Now thats not to say a podiatrist isn't valuable or that a hospital wouldn't want one on staff, but there are few scenarios in my mind where a hospital would go with a podiatrist over a F/A ortho vying for the same position to do those similar procedures. but hey, correct me if i'm wrong, im still a pre-pod.

 

[bobtheweazel]

most likely not. a F/A ortho is still capable of taking call and doing plenty of other procedures that are not strictly F/A. They can do anything any other ortho that hasnt done a fellowship can do. Hospitals will pay you based on how much money they can make off of you. A F/A ortho has the capabilities to perform a lot more than a podiatrist can, and thus can make more money for the hospital even though they are generally payed a lot more. Now thats not to say a podiatrist isn't valuable or that a hospital wouldn't want one on staff, but there are few scenarios in my mind where a hospital would go with a podiatrist over a F/A ortho vying for the same position to do those similar procedures. but hey, correct me if i'm wrong, im still a pre-pod.

Podiatry does not equal foot and ankle ortho (though there is some obvious overlap), so I wouldn't exactly say that foot and ankle orthopedists can do that much more than podiatrists. There are things that orthopedists can do that podiatrists aren't allowed to (knee, hip, arm, etc.) but there are also things podiatrists do that orthopedists wouldn't normally do or wouldn't be allowed to do (wound care, vascular, derm, etc) so while maybe an ortho could also take call on general ortho cases, a podiatrist could also work on a woundcare service. It probably just depends on the community and the way the hospital is set up. A podiatrist is generally cheaper and can do the same foot and ankle surgeries and other docs could take the general ortho call. A foot and ankle ortho isn't any more necessary/unnecessary than a podiatrist. Hospitals are still catching on but as they do the number of pod jobs in hospitals is increasing.



Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[GypsyHummus]

I think a good way to market podiatry to the premed community is "surgery lite-be a surgeon in half the time!" or "doctor with surgical options" or simply just " College of Foot and Ankle Surgery". Thing is, the big selling point of podiatry is that it's the only way you are gonna be a surgeon without the MD/DO degree. Being a surgeon is still a really high prestige factor for a lot of people, and while there is a debate right now on wether or not we are called "physicians", there is no doubt in anyone's mind, public or healthcare worker wise, that we are surgeons. One of the very smart things podiatry lobbies did was fight for surgical rights of the foot and ankle, let's use these privileges to our advantage to draw more people in.

One thing I noticed is that DMUs school has foot and ankle surgery in the title. I wonder if that trend is to follow suite in the next 5 years.

I have something like this in mind. I want to go back to my Alma mater some day as a brand ambassador for whatever pod school I end up going to. I'm also a URM so I'll be looking into reaching out to the minority community as a mentor too.

I just wanted to add that although reaching out is a good idea, there are three things that really won't change:

(1) feet is just not very popular. There are people who can't stand the sight of their own blood and there are also people who feel the same exact way about feet. No amount of reaching out will bring in a student like that. It's just one of those things where you need a particular taste to appreciate it. Think of certain genres of music or an unsung hero. It's just not a crowd favorite! (This is an important point to bare in mind).

(2) once you're in, you're trapped. There aren't any options & all you'll work with is just feet. You can't branch off into radiology, pathology, whatever. It's feet from start to finish! Most premeds are very indecisive as it is. How can they be so certain that feet is all they want to work with?

(3) lastly the "Real doctor" argument. All the 3 podiatrist I've followed have brought this up. And I've exchanged PMs with some practicing pods on here who have all acknowledged it too. You'll encounter this at some point. How will you feel? It's either you're content and accept who you are and what you do, or you're forever fighting and trying to prove some point that you're a "real doctor" in the eyes of the general public. There were talks about some kind of combined M.D./DPM degree. Why? So a pod could give flu shots? Keep ambition in mind too! One of the doctors pointed out on the physician & resident section that there's nothing podiatry does that's really only a podiatry thing. So many others could do it too!

The better marketing strategy is to be clear from the beginning and not try to dance to the tune of the crowd. Then people that are genuinely interested will come on their own. Those students are what podiatry should be after. To try to persuade M.D./D.O. applicants to give a shot to pod isn't the best approach.

Any form of specialized & separate schooling has less applicants than M.D./D.O. (vet, dent, opto, PhD, & pod). M.D./D.O. are selective because of the volume of applicants. Isn't that how supp & demand works?

Nursing & PA school probably give the more specialized programs a run for their money too in terms of # of applicants.

Tl; dr - This is a really nice career, but it's not for everyone.

 

[Weirdy]

I think a good way to market podiatry to the premed community is "surgery lite-be a surgeon in half the time!" or "doctor with surgical options" or simply just " College of Foot and Ankle Surgery". Thing is, the big selling point of podiatry is that it's the only way you are gonna be a surgeon without the MD/DO degree. Being a surgeon is still a really high prestige factor for a lot of people, and while there is a debate right now on wether or not we are called "physicians", there is no doubt in anyone's mind, public or healthcare worker wise, that we are surgeons. One of the very smart things podiatry lobbies did was fight for surgical rights of the foot and ankle, let's use these privileges to our advantage to draw more people in.

One thing I noticed is that DMUs school has foot and ankle surgery in the title. I wonder if that trend is to follow suite in the next 5 years.

I like a lot of your posts but this one I vehemently disagree with.

There are procedures that require surgery and podiatrists are trained specifically in these procedures.

But when you single out this aspect and advertise it to neurotic pre-meds who 80% of have no clue how the real world works- It does nothing but diminishes the quality.
One of the things I liked most about the people in this field is how down to earth and realistic they are. Sure there's the odd power tripper here or there but for a majority of the people (pre-pods, pod students, practicing podiatrists) I've interacted with, they've all been extremely cool and helpful to be around without that "I'm a doctor so I do not need to waste my time on you" attitude.

Increasing attention and better quality applicants for the field is one thing. Using a bait line such as "surgeon with half the training" attracts a crowd with the wrong attitude I feel.

 

[dr.phoot]

I think a good way to market podiatry to the premed community is "surgery lite-be a surgeon in half the time!" or "doctor with surgical options" or simply just " College of Foot and Ankle Surgery". Thing is, the big selling point of podiatry is that it's the only way you are gonna be a surgeon without the MD/DO degree. Being a surgeon is still a really high prestige factor for a lot of people, and while there is a debate right now on wether or not we are called "physicians", there is no doubt in anyone's mind, public or healthcare worker wise, that we are surgeons. One of the very smart things podiatry lobbies did was fight for surgical rights of the foot and ankle, let's use these privileges to our advantage to draw more people in.

One thing I noticed is that DMUs school has foot and ankle surgery in the title. I wonder if that trend is to follow suite in the next 5 years.

This is what I was getting at with the whole "... dancing to the tune of the crowd". You're suggesting we tell students what they want to hear so we could reel them in. I feel we should rather be up front about what podiatry really is and what it really is about and then anyone still standing should be brought in.

One of the doctors in the other thread mentioned that not many pods are doing surgery like you would think. He was a director / chief in a hospital with about 30+ podiatrist and only 7 were handling all the surgery. So you have to consider what you're selling the student by running your campaign on surgery.

It's like the idea that pod schools go after M.D./D.O. applicants. "Hey, you didn't get into allo/osteo..?? Aww... sorry to hear that. Don't worry we'll take you! Our gpa and mcat averages are slightly lower"

Pod schools should rather go after students that genuinely want to do the job. In a lot of fields, advancements and breakthroughs are typically made by those who are so passionate about the field that they're almost obsessed with it.

To push this idea of second best, or well if M.D./D.O. didn't take you, come here, will not help the field in the long run.

Why should we say, "you get to become a surgeon in less the standard time?"

 

[GypsyHummus]

Don't get me wrong, I think so too, but telling that narrative will get people interested in podiatry. How do you think the DOs have so rapidly expanded in the last 10 years, to the point where it's almost unstustanable?

I do agree that most pods are super down to earth, so much different than a majority (we talking like 90%) of the self professed "premeds" in college. Everyone in my interview group was super chill unlike my DO interview where everyone was out for themselves and not very friendly.

I like a lot of your posts but this one I vehemently disagree with.

There are procedures that require surgery and podiatrists are trained specifically in these procedures.

But when you single out this aspect and advertise it to neurotic pre-meds who 80% of have no clue how the real world works- It does nothing but diminishes the quality.
One of the things I liked most about the people in this field is how down to earth and realistic they are. Sure there's the odd power tripper here or there but for a majority of the people (pre-pods, pod students, practicing podiatrists) I've interacted with, they've all been extremely cool and helpful to be around without that "I'm a doctor so I do not need to waste my time on you" attitude.

Increasing attention and better quality applicants for the field is one thing. Using a bait line such as "surgeon with half the training" attracts a crowd with the wrong attitude I feel.

I like a lot of your posts but this one I vehemently disagree with.

There are procedures that require surgery and podiatrists are trained specifically in these procedures.

But when you single out this aspect and advertise it to neurotic pre-meds who 80% of have no clue how the real world works- It does nothing but diminishes the quality.
One of the things I liked most about the people in this field is how down to earth and realistic they are. Sure there's the odd power tripper here or there but for a majority of the people (pre-pods, pod students, practicing podiatrists) I've interacted with, they've all been extremely cool and helpful to be around without that "I'm a doctor so I do not need to waste my time on you" attitude.

Increasing attention and better quality applicants for the field is one thing. Using a bait line such as "surgeon with half the training" attracts a crowd with the wrong attitude I feel.

 

[Nowehjose]

A lot of DPM's don't allow shadowing, so Gypsy it is kind of hard to be exposed to the practice. Nearly every DO, Ortho and PA I asked to follow said yes... So down to earth by what means?

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

A lot of DPM's don't allow shadowing, so Gypsy it is kind of hard to be exposed to the practice. Nearly every DO, Ortho and PA I asked to follow said yes... So down to earth by what means?

That may be just where youre from, because it was the opposite for me

 

[GypsyHummus]

A lot of DPM's don't allow shadowing, so Gypsy it is kind of hard to be exposed to the practice. Nearly every DO, Ortho and PA I asked to follow said yes... So down to earth by what means?

It was the opposite for me. Every DO said no, and every pod said yes.

 

[Certified Corsair]

Yup. That alone should drive up Apps. My guess is there may be a lag time- the DPM students profiled as MD/DO rejects that turn to DPM may try DO anyway next cycle, and find their way into our applicant pool in the subsequent cycle

Just out of curiosity in regards to the AACOMAS replacement. Do you think it would become much harder to get in next cycle as opposed to this one right now? What are the odds more people that were thinking DO will now pursue podiatry and do you think it will have any significant impact on the statistics year to year applicants? I plan on applying next cycle and was curious how much anyone thinks current "competitive" requirements will change.

Thanks

 

[pacpod]

If there is going to be any change in competitiveness, (I don't think it will be measurable if any) it will take several cycles to shake out.

 

[Weirdy]

A lot of DPM's don't allow shadowing, so Gypsy it is kind of hard to be exposed to the practice. Nearly every DO, Ortho and PA I asked to follow said yes... So down to earth by what means?

That may be just where youre from, because it was the opposite for me

It was the opposite for me. Every DO said no, and every pod said yes.

I guess I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement. My apologies.

It will vary by area. I myself was rejected by 4+ practices (mix of both group and private) before I found 2 willing to let me shadow.
The ones who rejected me either gave me no reason, or told me to some varying degree to look into another profession. One even personally called me back explaining why I should do so and it was out of kindness, not angst.

Both MDs I shadowed were also humble and extremely competent in having a shadow and taking time to teach me whenever they weren't seeing patients or while they were charting. This was also the case with the OD I shadowed quite a while ago.

Every podiatry student I have interacted with have been very nice. Maybe they havn't been jaded and made bitter by practicing in real life yet but I am willing to trust their character.

 

[Weirdy]

Just out of curiosity in regards to the AACOMAS replacement. Do you think it would become much harder to get in next cycle as opposed to this one right now? What are the odds more people that were thinking DO will now pursue podiatry and do you think it will have any significant impact on the statistics year to year applicants? I plan on applying next cycle and was curious how much anyone thinks current "competitive" requirements will change.

Thanks

Doubt it. If you were a DO applicant dead set on becoming a physician for the last 4+ years, would you let grade replacement be the deciding factor from switching to only lower extremity for the rest of your life?

80% of the students I interviewed with had much better stats than me that would've landed them a DO acceptance if they chose to go that route. The ones who didn't have DO stats were very close to it. Given 1 or 2 fix years they could've reached that level easily to snag DO invites.

The point is: even with increased competitiveness, you cannot change someone's preference. They are built to challenge adversity to get what they want. Someone who is honest with themselves and wants to treat the whole body will not be able to justify only treating lower extremity unless they develop a taste for it and grow to like it.

\Completely anecdotal. Take with a grain of salt.

 

[Nippyfan]

I think you are generally correct, but there are some applicants who will come to realize that as admissions standards into MD/DO programs become increasingly impossible, there has to be an alternative.

Some who are already knee-deep in debt may say "absolutely not" to an SMP/Post Baccalaureate program because it means more loans before professional school even begins. They may say absolutely not to retaking the MCAT because in reality, it is a very very taxing experience studying for and subsequently taking that exam. They may say absolutely not to taking a gap year with no real plans to fill the idle time.

Those individuals may start googling and come across the very attractive podiatric option. Clinic, surgery, derm, wound care, limb salvage etc., all wrapped up into 4 years of schooling and a relatively short 3 year (surgical) residency. Starting salaries may also be very enticing because while there will always be those jobs offering 70k base, depending on the quality of the residency obtained a 200k+ hospital job could be acquired, and the "back-up" plan could potentially out earn his/her DO best friend making 140k in family medicine.

My only point is, yes, for some nothing will sway them from obtaining their MD/DO goals. And I think that is a generally good thing. However, for some, reality will hit and an alternative may have to be explored and podiatry may become an obvious choice for many.

Doubt it. If you were a DO applicant dead set on becoming a physician for the last 4+ years, would you let grade replacement be the deciding factor from switching to only lower extremity for the rest of your life?

80% of the students I interviewed with had much better stats than me that would've landed them a DO acceptance if they chose to go that route. The ones who didn't have DO stats were very close to it. Given 1 or 2 fix years they could've reached that level easily to snag DO invites.

The point is: even with increased competitiveness, you cannot change someone's preference. They are built to challenge adversity to get what they want. Someone who is honest with themselves and wants to treat the whole body will not be able to justify only treating lower extremity unless they develop a taste for it and grow to like it.

\Completely anecdotal. Take with a grain of salt.

 

[I post PRN]

This is what I was getting at with the whole "... dancing to the tune of the crowd". You're suggesting we tell students what they want to hear so we could reel them in. I feel we should rather be up front about what podiatry really is and what it really is about and then anyone still standing should be brought in.

One of the doctors in the other thread mentioned that not many pods are doing surgery like you would think. He was a director / chief in a hospital with about 30+ podiatrist and only 7 were handling all the surgery. So you have to consider what you're selling the student by running your campaign on surgery.

It's like the idea that pod schools go after M.D./D.O. applicants. "Hey, you didn't get into allo/osteo..?? Aww... sorry to hear that. Don't worry we'll take you! Our gpa and mcat averages are slightly lower"

Pod schools should rather go after students that genuinely want to do the job. In a lot of fields, advancements and breakthroughs are typically made by those who are so passionate about the field that they're almost obsessed with it.

To push this idea of second best, or well if M.D./D.O. didn't take you, come here, will not help the field in the long run.

Why should we say, "you get to become a surgeon in less the standard time?"

Lots of people on SDN will say they were chief, or consultant, or sat on this board or that board, don't believe everything you read. Some people are trolls. Just looking out for you.

 

[TimmyTurner]

Diabetic wound care is one of my most interested areas. General wound care docs do not know mechanics as much as pods, which could lead to decreased function after limb salvage... There will always be a need.

Even more than this... Most of the bread and butter of Pod work is deemed undesirable by other fields. Diabetic foot care is certainly not the most glamorous fields to pursue. However, because of our training we are the best at it, and very few other fields will commit to it because they are not trained as well and it's just not desirable work. So in addition to the need- there is also not a major threat of competition.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Even more than this... Most of the bread and butter of Pod work is deemed undesirable by other fields. Diabetic foot care is certainly not the most glamorous fields to pursue. However, because of our training we are the best at it, and very few other fields will commit to it because they are not trained as well and it's just not desirable work. So in addition to the need- there is also not a major threat of competition.

Yeah.

Saw lots of diabetic wound care when I shadowed. Not super glamour is work, but not strainful work either, just rather disgusting work overall. Not a ton of docs will want to touch that.