Sign My Petition To Ban Cranial and Strike The Name Of Sutherland From Earth

[CorpuSpongiosum]

Dear AOA and Old Dead Osteopaths,

We, in the 21st century attending osteopathic schools, want to thank you for having it made it possible for us to become physicians without having to travel to the Caribbean or abroad. We find your manual techniques intriguing, often amusing, sometimes quite relaxing, and a perfect opportunity to feel up our classmates for more than two years.

That said, there is one technique over which we find it impossible to suspend disbelief for the minimum amount of time required for it to be taught to us and for us to practice it. We are speaking of course of Cranial. This, to us, is the equivalent of the 19th century leeching and use of castor oil.

Moreover, without any proof (which is the osteopathic way in any case), we find Dr. (I use the title w/ not a little sense of irony) Sutherland to be a cult leader and quack of the highest order. If tarring and feathering had still been permitted in the 1930's and 40's, Dr. Sutherland was fully deserving of this practice.

Yours Truly,

The Class of 2009, 10, 11, 12........


PS. Cranial Bones will move when pigs fly.

---

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[ShyRem]

 

[dermpathdoc]

Dear AOA and Old Dead Osteopaths,

We, in the 21st century attending osteopathic schools, want to thank you for having it made it possible for us to become physicians without having to travel to the Caribbean or abroad. We find your manual techniques intriguing, often amusing, sometimes quite relaxing, and a perfect opportunity to feel up our classmates for more than two years.

That said, there is one technique over which we find it impossible to suspend disbelief for the minimum amount of time required for it to be taught to us and for us to practice it. We are speaking of course of Cranial. This, to us, is the equivalent of the 19th century leeching and use of castor oil.

Moreover, without any proof (which is the osteopathic way in any case), we find Dr. (I use the title w/ not a little sense of irony) Sutherland to be a cult leader and quack of the highest order. If tarring and feathering had still been permitted in the 1930's and 40's, Dr. Sutherland was fully deserving of this practice.

Yours Truly,

The Class of 2009, 10, 11, 12........


PS. Cranial Bones will move when pigs fly.

You sir are not worthy to be a D.O. if you cannot suspend yourself to really truly feel what comes thru your fingers and other senses..how can you say your will treat a person in all thier various abnormalities. Disease is not limited to infections, surgical lesions and genetics....recall we knew nothing about molecular changes that caused malignancies even 25 years ago...
There is much we still do not know about how the body works..who is not to say that in 25 years...all our scuentific endeavors will be rendered obselete by those who choose to work with treating the body by what it is telling us by touch and motion....even homeopathy and natural medicine have thier use....
open your mind Kiddo

 

[surrender903]

did you have a bad day or something OP? maybe the weekend will do you some good.

 

[cyclohexanol]

You sir are not worthy to be a D.O. if you cannot suspend yourself to really truly feel what comes thru your fingers and other senses..how can you say your will treat a person in all thier various abnormalities. Disease is not limited to infections, surgical lesions and genetics....recall we knew nothing about molecular changes that caused malignancies even 25 years ago...
There is much we still do not know about how the body works..who is not to say that in 25 years...all our scuentific endeavors will be rendered obselete by those who choose to work with treating the body by what it is telling us by touch and motion....even homeopathy and natural medicine have thier use....
open your mind Kiddo

Who is not to say that in 25 years we'll find that it was completely false and a total waste of time?

What were once thought to be valid treatments: urine therapy, chelation, giving high doses of mercury for just about everything, etc are all now bunk. The fact that we don't know everything about the human body doesn't neither validates nor invalidates cranial. But PERSONALLY...

I'm not convinced of cranial, and nobody is going to change that. We spent a solid week (ugh) training with supposed experts. Every time they asked me to describe what I felt, I'd just make up some random bull**** and they would agree and tell me I did a great job. I wasn't feeling a damn thing, and apparently neither were they (power of suggestion anyone?). I was mad pissed about that week. It was as if I had spent a week learning about how great drinking your own urine is. Sorry, not for me. If you like it, more power to you, just don't expect me to agree with you and 'open my mind'. Just because I don't find it useful or valid doesn't mean I'm close-minded, despite what you think.

 

[bkpa2med]

Who is not to say that in 25 years we'll find that it was completely false and a total waste of time?

What were once thought to be valid treatments: urine therapy, chelation, giving high doses of mercury for just about everything, etc are all now bunk. The fact that we don't know everything about the human body doesn't neither validates nor invalidates cranial. But PERSONALLY...

I'm not convinced of cranial, and nobody is going to change that. We spent a solid week (ugh) training with supposed experts. Every time they asked me to describe what I felt, I'd just make up some random bull**** and they would agree and tell me I did a great job. I wasn't feeling a damn thing, and apparently neither were they (power of suggestion anyone?). I was mad pissed about that week. It was as if I had spent a week learning about how great drinking your own urine is. Sorry, not for me. If you like it, more power to you, just don't expect me to agree with you and 'open my mind'. Just because I don't find it useful or valid doesn't mean I'm close-minded, despite what you think.

Dude, that's the story of OMM

 

[Shaniqua14]

You sir are not worthy to be a D.O. if you cannot suspend yourself to really truly feel what comes thru your fingers and other senses..how can you say your will treat a person in all thier various abnormalities. Disease is not limited to infections, surgical lesions and genetics....recall we knew nothing about molecular changes that caused malignancies even 25 years ago...
There is much we still do not know about how the body works..who is not to say that in 25 years...all our scuentific endeavors will be rendered obselete by those who choose to work with treating the body by what it is telling us by touch and motion....even homeopathy and natural medicine have thier use....
open your mind Kiddo

1. Good response post

2. I completely agree with the "we still do not know how the body works." I don't start med school till the fall, but I still feel I can comment..... the treatment for the disease I was diagnosed with 15 years ago is extremely different than the current regimen physicians follow.... at age 10 one of my main medications was a daily, high-dose antibiotic.... now its considered contraindicated & obsolete.

3. Plus.... recall how doctors used to use "bleed humans" if they were sick?? Pretty sure that won't happen nowadays in a doc's office

4. Get facts straight before making statement. Leeches ARE used in today's medicine-- it became so common in wound care (& etc) that they warranted investigation by the FDA; and were then approved for use in 2004.

5. To the OP: please take off the class of 2012 in your signature. I (and I feel many other "almost M1's") would prefer not to be included.

 

[nlax30]

There is much we still do not know about how the body works..who is not to say that in 25 years...all our scientific endeavors will be rendered obselete by those who choose to work with treating the body by what it is telling us by touch and motion....even homeopathy and natural medicine have thier use....
open your mind Kiddo

While I agree that there is MUCH we don't know about the body, and about the world/environment in general........ come on now, homeopathy? Where does it's use fit in??

I'll be fine with allowing a patient to pursue alternative therapies as they see fit. EBM isn't the "end all be all" and there will always be the anecdotal evidence presented for these other treatments, but at some point I kind of have to draw a line, especially for something that's basically scientifically implausible.

 

[the1doc]

1. Good response post clearly a subjective conclusion...more a reflection of your beliefs than the actual quality of the response...which i thought was silly...completed with the patronizing use of "Kiddo"

2. I completely agree with the "we still do not know how the body works." duhI don't start med school till the fallthank you for qualifying your statements...and now we are to hear your defense for something you've yet to be trained in...., but I still feel I can comment..... the treatment for the disease I was diagnosed with 15 years ago is extremely different than the current regimen physicians follow.... yet after more than half a century, the Cranial gurus have failed to convince even the majority of their OWN that Cranial is anything more than sillinessat age 10 one of my main medications was a daily, high-dose antibiotic.... now its considered contraindicated & obsolete. as Cranial is by most physicians...by most DOs...by most osteopathic medical students

3. Plus.... recall how doctors used to use "bleed humans" if they were sick?? Pretty sure that won't happen nowadays in a doc's office

4. Get facts straight before making statement. Leeches ARE used in today's medicine-- it became so common in wound care (& etc) that they warranted investigation by the FDA; and were then approved for use in 2004.so perhaps if the Cranial nutjobs started using leeches in conjunction with Cranial, there would at least be SOME valid scientific evidence behind their treatment modalities...by that, i mean the leeches

5. To the OP: please take off the class of 2012 in your signature. no...keep it there...the vast majority of 2012...and 2013...and 2014...will think cranial is as ridiculous as the DOs who came before you...nothing more than a stain on our professionI (and I feel many other "almost M1's") would prefer not to be included.that is a pretty big assumption coming from someone who has yet to matriculate, much less experience osteopathic medical school and residency

have fun playing with skull bones

 

[the1doc]

by the way, OP, i sign your petition...got a good laugh out of it.

 

[ShyRem]

3. Plus.... recall how doctors used to use "bleed humans" if they were sick?? Pretty sure that won't happen nowadays in a doc's office

One word: hemochromatosis.

 

[jp104]

One word: hemochromatosis.

+1

Polycythemia Vera

 

[JonnyG]

OP: These are dangerous words you speak. Be careful that an AOA hit squad doesn't show up at your door.

 

[Red Beard]

Who is not to say that in 25 years we'll find that it was completely false and a total waste of time?

What were once thought to be valid treatments: urine therapy, chelation, giving high doses of mercury for just about everything, etc are all now bunk. The fact that we don't know everything about the human body doesn't neither validates nor invalidates cranial. But PERSONALLY...

I'm not convinced of cranial, and nobody is going to change that. We spent a solid week (ugh) training with supposed experts. Every time they asked me to describe what I felt, I'd just make up some random bull**** and they would agree and tell me I did a great job. I wasn't feeling a damn thing, and apparently neither were they (power of suggestion anyone?). I was mad pissed about that week. It was as if I had spent a week learning about how great drinking your own urine is. Sorry, not for me. If you like it, more power to you, just don't expect me to agree with you and 'open my mind'. Just because I don't find it useful or valid doesn't mean I'm close-minded, despite what you think.

We are classmates, although I still haven't figured out who you are over the last two years

What really dissuaded me during cranial week was the following experiment I conducted:

During an afternoon session in the lab, I went to 5 different facilitators, claimed to have a headache, and asked them to 'check out my head and tell me what's going on.' I received 5 different descriptions of my cranial bone motion within a 1 hour time span, including the following:

"Your head feels very locked up, no wonder you have a headache."

"Your head has a lot of movement, but its not symmetrical and is not moving in the way it should"

"Your skull motion is good, but your sacrum feels locked up."

The fact that these several 'experts' had no agreement on what they claim is objectively palpable leaves only the following two possibilities:

1) What they claim to be palpating doesn't exist, or;

2) The 'cranial impulse' is not accurately measurable via human touch.

In either case, I don't see any logical way a cranial practitioner could apply any specific and useful technique if they can't accurately detect any abnormality.

Given this, I don't see how anyone could argue that any benefit of cranial manipulation isn't just a placebo effect that could be had if anyone the patient percieves as knowledgeable happens to hold their head for a few minutes.

 

[cyclohexanol]

We are classmates, although I still haven't figured out who you are over the last two years

What really dissuaded me during cranial week was the following experiment I conducted:

During an afternoon session in the lab, I went to 5 different facilitators, claimed to have a headache, and asked them to 'check out my head and tell me what's going on.' I received 5 different descriptions of my cranial bone motion within a 1 hour time span, including the following:

"Your head feels very locked up, no wonder you have a headache."

"Your head has a lot of movement, but its not symmetrical and is not moving in the way it should"

"Your skull motion is good, but your sacrum feels locked up."

The fact that these several 'experts' had no agreement on what they claim is objectively palpable leaves only the following two possibilities:

1) What they claim to be palpating doesn't exist, or;

2) The 'cranial impulse' is not accurately measurable via human touch.

In either case, I don't see any logical way a cranial practitioner could apply any specific and useful technique if they can't accurately detect any abnormality.

Given this, I don't see how anyone could argue that any benefit of cranial manipulation isn't just a placebo effect that could be had if anyone the patient percieves as knowledgeable happens to hold their head for a few minutes.

Speaking of which, weren't we taught that there were experiments which showed that the maximum excursion of cranial bones due to CSF fluctuations is <25um while the minimum threshold of human palpation is >250um? I seem to recall one of the lecturers talking about that. Seems to me if that is true, that should be enough to end any discussion about cranial. Alas, I couldn't find a citation. All I could find was a bunch of BS slides about how the sutures are like gills

 

[bonesawz]

Speaking of which, weren't we taught that there were experiments which showed that the maximum excursion of cranial bones due to CSF fluctuations is <25um while the minimum threshold of human palpation is >250um? I seem to recall one of the lecturers talking about that. Seems to me if that is true, that should be enough to end any discussion about cranial. Alas, I couldn't find a citation. All I could find was a bunch of BS slides about how the sutures are like gills

To understand cranial and several other aspects of OMM, you must first free your mind......of logic. The people with "open minds" are the ones who love cranial and come back from "convo" claiming to be able to feel a person's "energy" or "life force". It won't suprise me one bit when they come back next time with voodoo dolls claiming it is osteopathic acupuncture.

 

[BusterDO]

You sir are not worthy to be a D.O. if you cannot suspend yourself to really truly feel what comes thru your fingers and other senses..how can you say your will treat a person in all thier various abnormalities. Disease is not limited to infections, surgical lesions and genetics....recall we knew nothing about molecular changes that caused malignancies even 25 years ago...
There is much we still do not know about how the body works..who is not to say that in 25 years...all our scuentific endeavors will be rendered obselete by those who choose to work with treating the body by what it is telling us by touch and motion....even homeopathy and natural medicine have thier use....
open your mind Kiddo

am i the only one that finds it funny that "DERMPATHdoc" is lecturing about the validity or potential validity of cranial?

 

[TexasTriathlete]

I think they should just call it "head"

 

[bigdog8829]

i'll sign it. minus dr. sutherland = quack.

i failed 3/6 omm practicals, and i'm damn proud of it. did ok on the written, and thats what matters, right...

 

[djnels01]

I lol'd.

I definitely think there are some OMM techniques that are useful - and I plan on using them in the future - but Cranial is not one of them. I don't believe I can enhance the body's inherent therapeutic potency by CV-4; I'm not buying it.

I forgot who said it, but something to the effect of "anyone who gets their head held & rubbed is going to be relaxed and say they feel better." That about sums it up for me...

 

[Styria]

I learned how to feel it, and I'm not even in a school yet. Maybe if you approached the matter with curiosity rather than disdain you'd get farther and have more reliable findings to use your vaunted logic to evaluate.

 

[Red Beard]

I learned how to feel it, and I'm not even in a school yet. Maybe if you approached the matter with curiosity rather than disdain you'd get farther and have more reliable findings to use your vaunted logic to evaluate.

If you aren't prepared to rely on your logic then maybe you shouldn't be considering a career in medicine.

EDIT: I initially misread your post as meaning we shouldn't use logic. I apologize for the hasty response.

I will concede that you might feel something when holding a patients head. The problem is that it could be any number of things: your own pulse, pulses in the patients superficial arteries, the patient's diaphragmatic motion translated through the spine, your own breathing, etc. The fact that it has actually been studied and DISPROVEN that there is any inter-rater reliability when palpating cranial motion...I can't see how we can claim to be able to apply a directed and efficacious treatment if we can't even agree on what the 'abnormality' is.

-----
Moran RW, Gibbons P. Intraexaminer and interexaminer reliability for palpation of the cranial rhythmic impulse at the head and sacrum. J Manipulative Physiol Ther.2001; 24:183 -190.

Green C, Martin CW, Bassett K, Kazanjian A. A systematic review of craniosacral therapy: biological plausibility, assessment reliability and clinical effectiveness. Complement Ther Med.1999; 7:201 -207.

Rogers JS, Witt PL, Gross MT, Hacke JD, Genova PA. Simultaneous palpation of the craniosacral rate at the head and feet: Intrarater and interrater reliability and rate comparisions. Phys Ther. 1998;78:1175 -1185.

 

[Styria]

Nah. Just saying logic doesn't really cover for a failure to perceive.

Being impatient means you're frustated before you even start. The biggest thing I found necessary was to just slow down. Then it was kind of shocking to realize it. Plus, since I was feeling my own head still (too weird to go after someone else's!), I could hold my breath, and it's much slower than my heart rate. If you were to map it, it would have a much wider waveform anyway and doesn't feel like the quick blip of a pulse. Better described as in/out and a period of time for each, at least from my vantage point. After that I noticed it corresponding to things, like my mouth changing shape slightly or the pounding of a headache. Just be curious.

I can't really comment on interexaminer reliability other than to say my own rate doesn't remain constant minute to minute. It's not like a normal sinus rhythm. Maybe the problem with reliability is in perceiving with your fingers which particular bones are or are not moving correctly, while the rhythm itself is better felt in the hands and forearms? (At least in my tiny experience. If it's movement, why not magnify it through leverage?)

 

[Concubine]

I plan on practicing evidence based medicine, not "feeling" based medicine. I don't know that much about cranial, I haven't started medical school, but I can already tell you I will approach cranial the exact same way I've approached everything I've been taught: with skepticism.

 

[cyclohexanol]

I'm not sure who you are addressing, but I first approached it with curiosity (and warranted skepticism). Then based on my own findings, began to regard it as bull****.

Anyway...

So you think you can feel it, now what?

I learned how to feel it, and I'm not even in a school yet. Maybe if you approached the matter with curiosity rather than disdain you'd get farther and have more reliable findings to use your vaunted logic to evaluate.

 

[Styria]

So you think you can feel it, now what?

Now learn whether it has any real clinical significance and how to use it if it does. That I have to go to school for. I'm satisfied that I can palpate the CRI but that doesn't mean I have the tools or am done evaluating it.

Plus I want to know what they have to say about metopic sutures. Does that affect anything in cranial? =)

 

[cyclohexanol]

Now learn whether it has any real clinical significance and how to use it if it does. That I have to go to school for. I'm satisfied that I can palpate the CRI but that doesn't mean I have the tools or am done evaluating it.

Plus I want to know what they have to say about metopic sutures. Does that affect anything in cranial? =)

They have something to say about every suture. Vomer rocking, in particular, is supposed to involve the metopic suture. They tell you that by pressing on the roof of your mouth (I forgot the suture name) that it rocks the vomer and causes the metopic suture to fan out, and vice versa. It seems to have been mentioned in "Men's Health" in regards to alleviating nasal congestion when searched on google... I don't buy it personally.

Also, according to Bailey, BJ, et al. Head and Neck Surgery 4ed (2006), during surgery to repair vomer deformities "Rocking [of the vomer] can cause fracture at the cribriform plate and can cause cerebral rhinorrhea." p 324.

So for me, the risk benefit ratio approaches infinity; I don't think the technique does anything, nor does it have any basis for doing anything, and it might have inherent risks such as that mentioned above.

 

[Xoynx]

I was a massage therapist for eleven years. I can feel a human hair through forty sheets of paper, but I can't say I've ever felt a cranial pulse. As someone mentioned above, there's a cacophony going on in the scalp, so I don't know how anyone can authoritatively say what's what. I intend to become an OMM/NMM, but I'll avoid cranial entirely.

 

[Pansit]

Dear AOA and Old Dead Osteopaths,

We, in the 21st century attending osteopathic schools, want to thank you for having it made it possible for us to become physicians without having to travel to the Caribbean or abroad. We find your manual techniques intriguing, often amusing, sometimes quite relaxing, and a perfect opportunity to feel up our classmates for more than two years.

That said, there is one technique over which we find it impossible to suspend disbelief for the minimum amount of time required for it to be taught to us and for us to practice it. We are speaking of course of Cranial. This, to us, is the equivalent of the 19th century leeching and use of castor oil.

Moreover, without any proof (which is the osteopathic way in any case), we find Dr. (I use the title w/ not a little sense of irony) Sutherland to be a cult leader and quack of the highest order. If tarring and feathering had still been permitted in the 1930's and 40's, Dr. Sutherland was fully deserving of this practice.

Yours Truly,

The Class of 2009, 10, 11, 12........


PS. Cranial Bones will move when pigs fly.

Can we actually send a real petition...lol

 

[Bill_Brasky]

If people believe in cranial then they need to find a way to scientifically prove its existence and benefits objectively. Until they come anywhere close practitioners of cranial deserve to be laughed off.

 

[geogil]

Not trying to start a flame war, but i have few questions. I'm an allo student, so the OMM business is pretty foreign. What exactly are you supposed to feel? Once you feel it, what do you do with it? are you moving the head around? manipulating energy fields? what exactly does this technique purport to do? How is this kind of instruction recieved in your classes, are most people on board or are they telling the teacher what they want to hear while being secretly disbelieving? just curious.

 

[Xoynx]

Succinctly, OMM is (sort of) the application of chiropractic and neuromuscular techniques but with a complete medical perspective, e.g. understanding how easing the tension in certain structures or realigning askew joints can facilitate the immune system, ease TMJ dysfunction, reduce recovery time, etc. Unfortunately, the fact that it's difficult to quantify a lot of the changes effected by OMM has opened some DOs to some pretty wiggy ideas that are established on specious logic and little to no EBM, making OMM appear to be as legitimate a scientific discipline as phrenology.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Succinctly, OMM is (sort of) the application of chiropractic and neuromuscular techniques but with a complete medical perspective,

sans that little pesky thing called evidence.

 

[Xoynx]

sans that little pesky thing called evidence.

If you're talking cranial, then I concur; if you're talking OMM in general, then you speak from ignorance. Plenty of research (and common sense) supports HVLA and MET. Besides, lots of people don't experience jack from cranial (either giving or receiving), but you won't find many people who have received HVLA or MET for a stiff neck or back and reported feeling absolutely no improvement. Again, it's inherently difficult to quantify OMM, but relative to other equally immeasurable modalities, it stands out as an effective tool.

 

[geogil]

I was referring mainly to cranial. What's supposed to be going on there?

 

[Xoynx]

I was referring mainly to cranial. What's supposed to be going on there?

I don't usually trust Wikipedia to explain topics in medical school, but in this case, I'll make an exception:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craniosacral

 

[ShyRem]

I flat out said "I don't feel anything" if I didn't feel anything. And a couple of times I felt some strange rhythm in cranial that they had *no* clue what it was.

OMM has some outstanding techniques that really work for certain things... foot dysfunctions, wrist, spine, piriformis, psoas, hamstring, ribs, OA, AA, innominates, sacrum. Break your clavicle? OMM can definitely help the muscle pain/spasm/fatigue that can accompany that injury. Got ligament disorders/injuries? OMM can help that too. Asthma? amazing how their ribs/back get out of whack and can be fixed in just a few minutes and give them amazing relief. And runners are constantly dropping their navicular or cuboid in their feet. Fix those puppies in literally less than 3 minutes and they're walking like new people. Doesn't fix everything, but can give some adjunctive relief for a lot more than we think.

I'm just not convinced about cranial. Then again, I don't get cranial. Perhaps there's something really awesome about it if you get someone doing it that knows what they're doing. I don't.

 

[geogil]

I don't usually trust Wikipedia to explain topics in medical school, but in this case, I'll make an exception:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craniosacral

I can understand why you'd be skeptical. "The gills of a fish" eh? Reminds me of a Mythbuster show I saw on chi punches. Supposedly this Chinese master was able to push you over with chi, much like televangelists do. The only catch was, you had to have your eyes open, and you had to believe it works. The mythbuster guy had on a blindfold and was obviously skeptical, and lo and behold, was able to withstand the Force. One devoted acolyte of the master explained another way to block chi punches, by pushing one big toe down and raising the other one. Best of luck to you guys with this, I'll go back to cruising the allo boards now.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Not the mythbuster's show, but relevant anyway. This sums up cranial pretty well I think.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I[/YOUTUBE]

I can understand why you'd be skeptical. "The gills of a fish" eh? Reminds me of a Mythbuster show I saw on chi punches. Supposedly this Chinese master was able to push you over with chi, much like televangelists do. The only catch was, you had to have your eyes open, and you had to believe it works. The mythbuster guy had on a blindfold and was obviously skeptical, and lo and behold, was able to withstand the Force. One devoted acolyte of the master explained another way to block chi punches, by pushing one big toe down and raising the other one. Best of luck to you guys with this, I'll go back to cruising the allo boards now.

 

[Old_Mil]

are...most people on board or are they telling the teacher what they want to hear while being secretly disbelieving? just curious.

Most people are just telling the resident OMM wonk what they want to hear to pass the first couple of years and get on with their life. Over 90% of DOs don't practice any OMM at all; unfortunately this majority is not represented by the governing bodies associated with the degree.

 

[Xoynx]

Most people are just telling the resident OMM wonk what they want to hear to pass the first couple of years and get on with their life. Over 90% of DOs don't practice any OMM at all; unfortunately this majority is not represented by the governing bodies associated with the degree.

That's very interesting. A large majority of my classmates, even the ones bound for surgery careers, intend to practice OMM to some extent. Where did you get that 90% figure? And how would you have the "governing bodies" better represent OMM?

 

[JadinSleeper]

Most people are just telling the resident OMM wonk what they want to hear to pass the first couple of years and get on with their life. Over 90% of DOs don't practice any OMM at all; unfortunately this majority is not represented by the governing bodies associated with the degree.

Absolutely, 100% spot on with this comment. This is exactly what got me through the first 2 years of osteopathic medical school.

I fought it once, however. Didn't get me very far at all, other than being blacklisted in the OMM department.

I graduate in a few days. I'll never, ever, ever do OMT again on a patient. Nor will I send one cent to the AOA.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Absolutely, 100% spot on with this comment. This is exactly what got me through the first 2 years of osteopathic medical school.

I fought it once, however. Didn't get me very far at all, other than being blacklisted in the OMM department.

I graduate in a few days. I'll never, ever, ever do OMT again on a patient. Nor will I send one cent to the AOA.

Agree 100% (I guess that makes Old_Mil's post 200% valid?)

 

[Xoynx]

I'm surprised at all the OMM hate by DOs. What you're basically saying is that the only reason you became a DO is that your grades weren't competitive enough to get you into an MD school. I guess that's awfully forthright of you, but somehow I'm not impressed by your openness.

 

[ShyRem]

It sounds like you're labeling everyone in the thread, xonyx. I'm sure that wasn't quite your intention.

 

[cyclohexanol]

I'm surprised at all the OMM hate by DOs. What you're basically saying is that the only reason you became a DO is that your grades weren't competitive enough to get you into an MD school. I guess that's awfully forthright of you, but somehow I'm not impressed by your openness.

Yeah bro, you got it. There isn't any other possible reason that DO students might not like OMM or find it useful. Your explanation is the ONLY reason.

 

[Xoynx]

It sounds like you're labeling everyone in the thread, xonyx. I'm sure that wasn't quite your intention.

Sorry--I'd meant to reply to one of the recent posters, not all readers.

 

[Taus]

I'm surprised at all the OMM hate by DOs. What you're basically saying is that the only reason you became a DO is that your grades weren't competitive enough to get you into an MD school. I guess that's awfully forthright of you, but somehow I'm not impressed by your openness.

I like OMM, use it frequently on friends and family and intend to use it occasionally in my future practice......BUT....I don't hesitate to say that cranial is a bunch of bull that makes us look like quacks.

 

[Xoynx]

I like OMM, use it frequently on friends and family and intend to use it occasionally in my future practice......BUT....I don't hesitate to say that cranial is a bunch of bull that makes us look like quacks.

Agreed!

 

[CorpuSpongiosum]

They should focus on things that people commonly complain about and where we can really use OMM in the REAL world and help people.

In my estimation, the LOWER back.

Why do we waste so much time on vertebral segments and side-bent, rotated garbage.

The lower back is like the number one reason for office visits to primary care doctors.

If you master like three techniques, you can help a lot of people.