Signing a CRNA’s insurance application

[Greenbayslacker]

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Hi team, I am an MD with a new anesthesia job that I haven’t started yet. I was contacted by my new employer to see if I would sign a new CRNA’s insurance application as a supervision physician.
Is this something I should do for them? What does this mean for the future, would I be liable for this CRNA even if they are not under my supervision? What would be the reason to ask me, a new grad, rather than one of the more senior attendings already there?

I have attached the part they asked me to sign, thank you for your input!

 

[StillAwake]

Have you asked your future employer if this is something every anesthesiologist signs?

 

[KENY1]

I would write in ' I am ONE OF THE supervising physicians...

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[deleted171991]

Hi team, I am an MD with a new anesthesia job that I haven’t started yet. I was contacted by my new employer to see if I would sign a new CRNA’s insurance application as a supervision physician.
Is this something I should do for them? What does this mean for the future, would I be liable for this CRNA even if they are not under my supervision? What would be the reason to ask me, a new grad, rather than one of the more senior attendings already there?

I have attached the part they asked me to sign, thank you for your input!

Have your employer sign it, as the form requires.You are not the primary employer of that CRNA. You cannot certify how the CRNA will work without committing fraud.

Anyway, HUGE red flag for your employer. If you have another job offer, take it.

 

[Ronin786]

Might want to move this to the private forum.

 

[marr65]

I would pass on signing the document and maybe think of finding a new group to work with. The owner of your group has the responsibility to sign for it not you.

 

[sevo00]

Seems like the employer should sign it. Not you.

 

[nimbus]

A more general question, are these forms normal for supervision practices? Have others who supervise signed similar forms?

I supervised for one year at an academic place and never saw anything similar.

 

[narcotics999]

A more general question, are these forms normal for supervision practices? Have others who supervise signed similar forms?

I supervised for one year at an academic place and never saw anything similar.

I did two years. No, never signed.

 

[Greenbayslacker]

Thank you for your input everyone!

 

[BIGphysician]

Hi team, I am an MD with a new anesthesia job that I haven’t started yet. I was contacted by my new employer to see if I would sign a new CRNA’s insurance application as a supervision physician.
Is this something I should do for them? What does this mean for the future, would I be liable for this CRNA even if they are not under my supervision? What would be the reason to ask me, a new grad, rather than one of the more senior attendings already there?

I have attached the part they asked me to sign, thank you for your input!

Sounds like things might not start off on the right foot if you don’t. That being said, never heard of such a thing. You commonly sign something for CMS billing I think but I’ve never signed any insurance premium documents. That’s something the more senior members should be dealing with id imagine? Or if everyone signs it, would make me personally feel better if my name was at the bottom of list of colleagues. Am I wrong?


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[marr65]

A more general question, are these forms normal for supervision practices? Have others who supervise signed similar forms?

I supervised for one year at an academic place and never saw anything similar.

I have a feeling that what the OP is showing us is the CRNA’s malpractice insurance application. My own insurance company asked max supervision ratio and if I’m doing my own cases while supervising before insuring me. Guessing that insurance companies have seen shenanigans related to supervision ratio, who is supervising who and if there is an actual anesthesiologist in house. This is a great way to boogie out of a lawsuit by the insurance company if the CRNA practiced independently, was supervised by a surgeon or in a 1:20 supervision ratio practice. Regardless, the OP doesn’t/shouldn’t sign this and I’m worried that the owner is trying to set up the OP as a fall guy.

 

[Greenbayslacker]

I have a feeling that what the OP is showing us is the CRNA’s malpractice insurance application.

That's correct. I have asked them for more clarification regarding the issues everyone here has brought up. I would also feel more comfortable if more senior faculty were involved rather than myself.

 

[marr65]

That's correct. I have asked them for more clarification regarding the issues everyone here has brought up. I would also feel more comfortable if more senior faculty were involved rather than myself.

I have signed attestation in supervision practice regarding adequately supervising Crnas before but never for their malpractice insurance application. It’s odd for sure. Since you aren’t starting there yet technically you aren’t their supervising physician; hence, you can’t sign the document. Your signature at this point just means you committed fraud and that can come back to you in the future.

 

[jwk]

I have to say I haven't seen anything like that before. It's a little strange to have to do that for individuals. Our policy is a blanket policy for our entire group. I have no doubt it has language in it pertaining to medical direction. What's interesting about this particular document is that it gives a max ratio of 1:3, even tighter than the CMS regulations specifying to higher than 1:4.

 

[IMGASMD]

Good point @jwk. Maybe something weird with the company? They couldn’t hiring more CRNA unless they have more physicians?

That being said, I wouldn’t sign this, unless someone explained to me explicitly why this is necessary.

 

[chocomorsel]

I have to say I haven't seen anything like that before. It's a little strange to have to do that for individuals. Our policy is a blanket policy for our entire group. I have no doubt it has language in it pertaining to medical direction. What's interesting about this particular document is that it gives a max ratio of 1:3, even tighter than the CMS regulations specifying to higher than 1:4.

1:3 is much better than 1:4 running around like a chicken w my head cut off can’t remember a damn thing of what’s going on in each OR BS.

 

[Greenbayslacker]

1:3 is much better than 1:4 running around like a chicken w my head cut off can’t remember a damn thing of what’s going on in each OR BS.

I actually took this job because it is mostly doing my own cases. Adding a few CRNAs is good for my overall supervision skill set but I still wouldn't want to do 1:4 or even 1:3

 

[IMGASMD]

I actually took this job because it is mostly doing my own cases. Adding a few CRNAs is good for my overall supervision skill set but I still wouldn't want to do 1:4 or even 1:3

Supervision skill set?
What do you think those would be?

 

[ProRealDoc]

Hi team, I am an MD with a new anesthesia job that I haven’t started yet. I was contacted by my new employer to see if I would sign a new CRNA’s insurance application as a supervision physician.
Is this something I should do for them? What does this mean for the future, would I be liable for this CRNA even if they are not under my supervision? What would be the reason to ask me, a new grad, rather than one of the more senior attendings already there?

I have attached the part they asked me to sign, thank you for your input!

I'd find out what my new boss' name is and sign his name

 

[chocomorsel]

Supervision skill set?
What do you think those would be?

Learning to run around like a dying chicken with the head cut off.
That skill takes practice I have yet nor will likely ever master.

 

[IMGASMD]

Learning to run around like a dying chicken with the head cut off.
That skill takes practice I have yet nor will likely ever master.

I know YOU know. Just wants to find out what s/he know.

 

[Zekchar]

A more general question, are these forms normal for supervision practices? Have others who supervise signed similar forms?

I supervised for one year at an academic place and never saw anything similar.

Supervising for 5 years in academia. Never had to do such a thing.

 

[2Fast2Des]

Supervision skill set?
What do you think those would be?

Learning how to be useless, mastering how not to piss off CRNAs, fixing messes that you didn't cause, among others

 

[IMGASMD]

Learning how to be useless, mastering how not to piss off CRNAs, fixing messes that you didn't cause, among others

You forgot, if they aren’t employed by you, you need to learn how to be an dingus to tell them to actually work.
Or dumb down the case, so they are comfortable to do the case, because they’re valued employee just like you.

 

[Greenbayslacker]

Supervision skill set?
What do you think those would be?

Putting out fires I didn't start, multitasking things that shouldn't be multitasked, learning to get along with nurses that don't care about me or the job. I know what I signed up for.