Anyone out there know the rules regarding signing outside the match or a web site that will provide this information?
Signing Outside the Match
- Thread starter Derek
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This is from the NRMP's website:
One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express a high degree of interest in each other and try to influence future ranking decisions in their favor, but must not make statements implying a commitment. It is a material breach of this Agreement for a participant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency position prior to the Matching Program. In addition, although applicants or programs may volunteer how they plan to rank each other, it is a material breach of this Agreement to request such information. Only the final preferences of programs and applicants, as reflected in their final certified rank order lists, will determine the offering of positions and the placement of applicants through the Matching Program.
7.0 Match Violations
It is a material breach of this Agreement for a participant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency position prior to the Matching Program.
Hope this helps.
One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express a high degree of interest in each other and try to influence future ranking decisions in their favor, but must not make statements implying a commitment. It is a material breach of this Agreement for a participant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency position prior to the Matching Program. In addition, although applicants or programs may volunteer how they plan to rank each other, it is a material breach of this Agreement to request such information. Only the final preferences of programs and applicants, as reflected in their final certified rank order lists, will determine the offering of positions and the placement of applicants through the Matching Program.
7.0 Match Violations
It is a material breach of this Agreement for a participant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency position prior to the Matching Program.
Hope this helps.
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Piginally posted by Derek [/i]
Essentially, it is OK to sign outside of the match, but the applicant must then withdraw from the match, so they don't land a spot somewhere through the match and aren't able to fill it ?????????? [/QUOTE]
Derek is correct. Currently, applicants are "registered" with the NRMP (or will soon do so). They are not yet "participants" in the Match. One participates in the Match by submitting a Rank Order List in mid-February. You simply agree to the rules to even be allowed to REGISTER for the NRMP. A number of programs to this day offer positions outside the Match, especially in certain competitive specialties.
Essentially, it is OK to sign outside of the match, but the applicant must then withdraw from the match, so they don't land a spot somewhere through the match and aren't able to fill it ?????????? [/QUOTE]
Derek is correct. Currently, applicants are "registered" with the NRMP (or will soon do so). They are not yet "participants" in the Match. One participates in the Match by submitting a Rank Order List in mid-February. You simply agree to the rules to even be allowed to REGISTER for the NRMP. A number of programs to this day offer positions outside the Match, especially in certain competitive specialties.
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It's my impression that only Independent Applicants are allowed to sign outside the Match. US Allopathic seniors may not. This was the whole gist of the policy change to disallowing the procedure starting with Match 2004. Then this happened: (For the whole piece, go to nrmp.org)
National Resident Matching Program (NRMP)Delays New Rule
[...]
For many years, the most talked about NRMP issue has been the lack of uniformity in the rules of participation for independent applicants and U.S. medical school senior applicants. Current procedures require NRMP participating programs to recruit and select US allopathic medical school seniors only through the Match; however, those programs can recruit and select independent applicants either within or outside the Match. In other words, programs can fill - and independent applicants can accept - positions in and out of the Match. US allopathic seniors do not have that option.
The NRMP Board of Directors has discussed this issue frequently during its 50+ years of operation. In the late 1990s the Board began to seriously consider the changes that would be necessary to establish uniform rules for independent and US allopathic senior applicants. The issue became the topic of many meetings with program director organizations and other NRMP participant groups. In November 2001 the NRMP Board of Directors passed the following motion: "Beginning with the 2004 Match, all sponsoring institutions participating in the NRMP Main Match must register and attempt to fill all their positions in the Match except for those specialties or programs participating in other national matching programs."
The Board established the 2004 Match as the effective date for the change to permit the NRMP to work with institutions, individual program director associations, and the Organization of Program Director Associations (OPDA) to develop a fair and reasoned process for implementation of this new directive. Since specialties may have unique practices that could be affected by the change, the NRMP twice solicited comments from institutional officials and program directors about any unintended consequences. After hearing from more than 400 individuals and organizations, the Board voted at its May 2003 meeting not to implement the new rule with the 2004 Match so that it could study the potential effects of three major issues: (1) changes in the processing and timely acquisition of visas for international medical graduates, (2) limiting the rule to PGY1 positions, and (3) making the rule program-based rather than institution-based, e.g., all programs (not institutions) registered for the Main Match would be required to place all their positions in the Match."
I supposed you could withdraw from the Match, as Derek and Adawaal say, but this is basically "illegal," I think, given that US seniors aren't allowed to do pre-Match. Yeah, you're getting around the rule, but then the program is also breaking the rule, and I think that could put them in jeopardy later -- would they want to chance the repercussions that might follow (like losing accreditation? (not sure if this would happen...)? It's my impression that this is the one arena where IMGs, specifically people like those who do 5th Pathway, have the advantage, since we can register as Independent Applicants. According to NRMP, the following can register as I.A.'s:
Applicants who are not seniors in a U.S. LCME-accredited allopathic medical school may participate in the NRMP Match as Independent Applicants if they meet certain criteria.
Six types of independent applicants may participate in the NRMP Main Match:
* Previous graduate of a U.S. medical school (someone who graduated earlier than September 1 in the year before the match)
* Student/graduate of an osteopathic medical school
* Student/graduate of a Canadian medical school
* Student/graduate of a Fifth Pathway program
* U.S. citizen student/graduate of a foreign medical school
* Non-U.S. citizen student/graduate of a foreign medical school.
National Resident Matching Program (NRMP)Delays New Rule
[...]
For many years, the most talked about NRMP issue has been the lack of uniformity in the rules of participation for independent applicants and U.S. medical school senior applicants. Current procedures require NRMP participating programs to recruit and select US allopathic medical school seniors only through the Match; however, those programs can recruit and select independent applicants either within or outside the Match. In other words, programs can fill - and independent applicants can accept - positions in and out of the Match. US allopathic seniors do not have that option.
The NRMP Board of Directors has discussed this issue frequently during its 50+ years of operation. In the late 1990s the Board began to seriously consider the changes that would be necessary to establish uniform rules for independent and US allopathic senior applicants. The issue became the topic of many meetings with program director organizations and other NRMP participant groups. In November 2001 the NRMP Board of Directors passed the following motion: "Beginning with the 2004 Match, all sponsoring institutions participating in the NRMP Main Match must register and attempt to fill all their positions in the Match except for those specialties or programs participating in other national matching programs."
The Board established the 2004 Match as the effective date for the change to permit the NRMP to work with institutions, individual program director associations, and the Organization of Program Director Associations (OPDA) to develop a fair and reasoned process for implementation of this new directive. Since specialties may have unique practices that could be affected by the change, the NRMP twice solicited comments from institutional officials and program directors about any unintended consequences. After hearing from more than 400 individuals and organizations, the Board voted at its May 2003 meeting not to implement the new rule with the 2004 Match so that it could study the potential effects of three major issues: (1) changes in the processing and timely acquisition of visas for international medical graduates, (2) limiting the rule to PGY1 positions, and (3) making the rule program-based rather than institution-based, e.g., all programs (not institutions) registered for the Main Match would be required to place all their positions in the Match."
I supposed you could withdraw from the Match, as Derek and Adawaal say, but this is basically "illegal," I think, given that US seniors aren't allowed to do pre-Match. Yeah, you're getting around the rule, but then the program is also breaking the rule, and I think that could put them in jeopardy later -- would they want to chance the repercussions that might follow (like losing accreditation? (not sure if this would happen...)? It's my impression that this is the one arena where IMGs, specifically people like those who do 5th Pathway, have the advantage, since we can register as Independent Applicants. According to NRMP, the following can register as I.A.'s:
Applicants who are not seniors in a U.S. LCME-accredited allopathic medical school may participate in the NRMP Match as Independent Applicants if they meet certain criteria.
Six types of independent applicants may participate in the NRMP Main Match:
* Previous graduate of a U.S. medical school (someone who graduated earlier than September 1 in the year before the match)
* Student/graduate of an osteopathic medical school
* Student/graduate of a Canadian medical school
* Student/graduate of a Fifth Pathway program
* U.S. citizen student/graduate of a foreign medical school
* Non-U.S. citizen student/graduate of a foreign medical school.
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When it comes to signing outside of the match, is it true that most of those programs tend to be mediocre? It just seems that signing outside of the match really benefits the residency program more than the independent applicant. The reason why is that those programs are trying to simply protect themselves by having bodies to work for the hospital rather than for training the residency. Granted, there are instances when a solid program signs a student outside the match. However, when a program offers an early contract, it probably means than you a can match at another better program. Being a DO student, still I'm most likely not going to sign outside of the match.
I would like to hear what other people think about the pros/cons of signing outside the match.
I would like to hear what other people think about the pros/cons of signing outside the match.
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signing outside the match gives the applicant so much more control of the situation, the match is stacked in favor of the programs. If you match outside the program it gives you more of the control.
And I agree that it would seem to be the lesser programs doing this routinely, but the best programs probably do it when they see somebody that is clearly going to benefit them.
And I agree that it would seem to be the lesser programs doing this routinely, but the best programs probably do it when they see somebody that is clearly going to benefit them.
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Are pre-matches for residencies still given out? I heard that was not done anymore. Does anyone know the current position on that or is it something that each individual hospital decide? Is a pre-match something you ask for when you go for an interview or is it offered?
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pre-match exists this year. individual programs decide. if you ask for it, they will laugh at you. they either ask you during the interview, via email or via snail mail. top ten programs have been known to offer it (e.g. mayo)
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Actually, the programs I'm aware of that have a real habit of doing this are pretty highly-regarded. Think about it this way: who would sign outside the Match for community program X without going for their dream program by filling out their ROL? As somebody who hates the Match with a passion, I would give anything for one of my top-choice programs to ask me to sign outside the Match....
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hi,
One very imp fact is being ignored here.Most of the prematches are taken up by the IMG's.The reason they do are many but a very imp reason they do so is the visa factor.By the time the Match takes place it gives very little time to file for and get visas by the start of the PGY1(am talking about the holy grail of visas here..the H1 here which takes some time to process).This is a very important factor for an IMG.And yes though most of the programmes offering prematches are mediocre,there are few really good ones out there which offer so..but they are far and in between.
hth.......
One very imp fact is being ignored here.Most of the prematches are taken up by the IMG's.The reason they do are many but a very imp reason they do so is the visa factor.By the time the Match takes place it gives very little time to file for and get visas by the start of the PGY1(am talking about the holy grail of visas here..the H1 here which takes some time to process).This is a very important factor for an IMG.And yes though most of the programmes offering prematches are mediocre,there are few really good ones out there which offer so..but they are far and in between.
hth.......
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H1B visas are being absolutely slashed recently, something like >60% fewer. Not sure of the exact #'s. A LOT of those go to techie types, so the number of hotshot IMG's coming here may shrink.
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I completely disagree with some of the previous discussions in this thread -
As I have mentioned before, while as a Sub-I in ENT and having met with the department chairmen, it was made very clear to me that one of two positions was "filled" by a person who took a year off and decided to stay here -
This person is NOT an IMG (and indeed was "home trained"), and has great credentials -
He simply liked the program, and was willing to take the time off to do a research year and secure a position.
As I have said before, good on him - If he, and the program, are willing to make that commitment, then both are happy.
In the end, if there are 200 applicants for a position, I am sure that 150 are more than qualified for the position, and in the end, it is really who melds best with the training program.
They are happpy with him - and he with them.
Is this a "match violation" - honestly I couldn't care -
There are many other fantastic programs who are looking for their right fit - as I am looking for mine.
Sure I would love to stay locally, but so would the ## other applicants - in the end it is really about who is willing to step up to the plate and do what needs to be done.
Whether that mean take a year off for research or otherwise.
Regardless, if it is meant to be - you will match... At your home institution or otherwise...
Kind regards,
Airborne
As I have mentioned before, while as a Sub-I in ENT and having met with the department chairmen, it was made very clear to me that one of two positions was "filled" by a person who took a year off and decided to stay here -
This person is NOT an IMG (and indeed was "home trained"), and has great credentials -
He simply liked the program, and was willing to take the time off to do a research year and secure a position.
As I have said before, good on him - If he, and the program, are willing to make that commitment, then both are happy.
In the end, if there are 200 applicants for a position, I am sure that 150 are more than qualified for the position, and in the end, it is really who melds best with the training program.
They are happpy with him - and he with them.
Is this a "match violation" - honestly I couldn't care -
There are many other fantastic programs who are looking for their right fit - as I am looking for mine.
Sure I would love to stay locally, but so would the ## other applicants - in the end it is really about who is willing to step up to the plate and do what needs to be done.
Whether that mean take a year off for research or otherwise.
Regardless, if it is meant to be - you will match... At your home institution or otherwise...
Kind regards,
Airborne
