Silence from the T20s, is something wrong with my app?

[lil_engine]

About half of my list was composed of T20 schools, and I've heard nothing from any of them so far even though it's been over two months. Is there something wrong with my app? I'm beginning to think I messed up with my essays. :/

• Cumulative GPA: 3.88
• Science GPA: 3.84
• MCAT Scores: 524 (130/131/131/132)
• Research: 1000+ hours over 2 years, independent project, small funding award from school, 1 minor poster presentation
• Volunteering (clinical): 500+ as EMT, 20 hours at hospital ER
• Physician shadowing: 70 Hours across Internal Medicine, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Pathology
• Non-clinical volunteering: ~200 hours tutoring low-income/at risk groups
• Extracurricular activities: 1 leadership position in professional fraternity, competed in national level athletic competition
• Employment history: 2 semesters as TA, 2 years part time tutor, gap year job is MCAT director at a small test prep company
• Specialty of interest: neurology, psychiatry
• Potential red flag: minor alcohol violation as a freshman that resulted in IA (had to write a reflection paper). I explained how I learned from the incident in my AMCAS.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[curkholderia]

What? I’m like three tiers below you in terms of ECs and Stats and I thought all the T20s are busy interviewing people like you hence me having total silence

 

[ays0110]

I'm in the same boat as you though I believe I submitted my secondaries a bit on the late side (Primary 7/30, Secondaries in September). When did you send in your secondaries?
I've had an interview already with UC Davis, but absolutely radio silence from Top 20s, no rejections from MD programs

I applied to MD/PHD programs for almost all the Top 20s, but specified that I want to apply to both the MD and MD/PHD programs.
The only news I've gotten on that front was Stanford MD/PHD rejecting me in September, but saying app had been forwarded onto their MD admissions. Since then, no word.

GPA: 3.7 (kind of low, but engineering major)
MCAT: 525 (131/130/132/132)
Research: 1000+hr
Volunteering: 300hr+
Non traditional, worked for 6 years as a programmer in startups before applying this cycle.

 

[Goro]

About half of my list was composed of T20 schools, and I've heard nothing from any of them so far even though it's been over two months. Is there something wrong with my app? I'm beginning to think I messed up with my essays. :/

• Cumulative GPA: 3.88
• Science GPA: 3.84
• MCAT Scores: 524 (130/131/131/132)
• Research: 1000+ hours over 2 years, independent project, small funding award from school, 1 minor poster presentation
• Volunteering (clinical): 500+ as EMT, 20 hours at hospital ER
• Physician shadowing: 70 Hours across Internal Medicine, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Pathology
• Non-clinical volunteering: ~200 hours tutoring low-income/at risk groups
• Extracurricular activities: 1 leadership position in professional fraternity, competed in national level athletic competition
• Employment history: 2 semesters as TA, 2 years part time tutor, gap year job is MCAT director at a small test prep company
• Specialty of interest: neurology, psychiatry
• Potential red flag: minor alcohol violation as a freshman that resulted in IA (had to write a reflection paper). I explained how I learned from the incident in my AMCAS.

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.

Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out secondaries or IIs merely in chronological order.

 

[ays0110]

Patience is a virtue, the need for instant gratification is not.

Schools stratify the apps as they come in and don't send out secondaries or IIs merely in chronological order.

Thanks for the reassurance! I was wondering if you were familiar with the process regarding MD/PHD + MD joint applications and how these two applications affect each other. Do MD/PHD programs pass on applications to MD programs after rejecting the applicant, or does the review from both committees happen in tandem?

Can it happen that applying to and being rejected by an MD/PHD program can hurt your chances (in terms of timing, if they're "holding" your application?) to attain an interview with the MD program?

Thanks in advance

 

[fds86]

Sometimes there are sort of waves; last cycle I got a few in early October, and it was silence until late November, when I got another bunch of T20 II. You might have gotten tabled the first time around, and will get another shot in the next couple of weeks. If you were complete late anywhere that's a factor too, since I think it can often take 6-8 weeks before they can evaluate your app the first time around (just based on my complete date vs. interview date at a majority of places).

Unfortunately no one can really assess your app just over this post, but you just have to see what happens. It's tough because you're worrying about it the whole time, but you just have to remember that you gave it your best shot, and that whatever happens, happens.

 

[DokterMom]

You sound like a very competitive applicant.
Trouble is the top 20 have an abundance of highly competitive applicants, so to them, you're probably pretty average...

Good news is that you're not in the quick-rejection pile.
Bad news is that you're also, apparently, not in the "OMG! Gotta send this one an interview invitation right this minute!" pile either.

Just remember to breathe. And hopefully, you also applied to a number of 30-50's and your state schools who will be delighted to have you.

 

[Cheenghee Koh]

Relax. This morning I checked some of the portals, one school still, wait, not reviewed yet? I completed the secondaries a month ago. Another school just marked my application complete two days ago, but I also completed everything a month ago. Yes, please give them a bit more time. I believe they are now overwhelmed. Try to get your mind off from the application and get back on your work and life as usual.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the reassurance! I was wondering if you were familiar with the process regarding MD/PHD + MD joint applications and how these two applications affect each other. Do MD/PHD programs pass on applications to MD programs after rejecting the applicant, or does the review from both committees happen in tandem?

Can it happen that applying to and being rejected by an MD/PHD program can hurt your chances (in terms of timing, if they're "holding" your application?) to attain an interview with the MD program?

Thanks in advance

Outside my knowledge base.

 

[lil_engine]

I'm in the same boat as you though I believe I submitted my secondaries a bit on the late side (Primary 7/30, Secondaries in September). When did you send in your secondaries?
I've had an interview already with UC Davis, but absolutely radio silence from Top 20s, no rejections from MD programs

I applied to MD/PHD programs for almost all the Top 20s, but specified that I want to apply to both the MD and MD/PHD programs.
The only news I've gotten on that front was Stanford MD/PHD rejecting me in September, but saying app had been forwarded onto their MD admissions. Since then, no word.

GPA: 3.7 (kind of low, but engineering major)
MCAT: 525 (131/130/132/132)
Research: 1000+hr
Volunteering: 300hr+
Non traditional, worked for 6 years as a programmer in startups before applying this cycle.

I submitted from early August to early September. I've had an few II from lower ranked schools, for which I am very grateful. However, I've gotten nothing from top schools. I can't help comparing myself to other people on SDN with similar stats who have 10+ IIs and several from T20s.

 

[getdown]

Don't worry. It's always a shock realizing that there are always someone more competitive when you move outside the confines of your undergrad. But you'll get used to it and even adjust to the level of intelligence you'll encounter in medical school and beyond. Half the class at Harvard med school are in the bottom 50%. As long as you applied smartly and not packed your app with uber selective schools you'll get in somewhere.

 

[getdown]

I submitted from early August to early September. I've had an few II from lower ranked schools, for which I am very grateful. However, I've gotten nothing from top schools. I can't help comparing myself to other people on SDN with similar stats who have 10+ IIs and several from T20s.

SDN is not a realistic representation of the applicant pool. Best not to compare yourself to these people or you'll end up going crazy and end up in a psych ward.

 

[FroYoOreo]

When I read the bio of some highly renowned doctors, many of them are not from T20 or even T40. As long as you get into ONE med school, you will be a doctor one day and have plenty of time to prove yourself.

 

[efle]

About half of my list was composed of T20 schools, and I've heard nothing from any of them so far even though it's been over two months. Is there something wrong with my app? I'm beginning to think I messed up with my essays. :/

• Cumulative GPA: 3.88
• Science GPA: 3.84
• MCAT Scores: 524 (130/131/131/132)
• Research: 1000+ hours over 2 years, independent project, small funding award from school, 1 minor poster presentation
• Volunteering (clinical): 500+ as EMT, 20 hours at hospital ER
• Physician shadowing: 70 Hours across Internal Medicine, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Pathology
• Non-clinical volunteering: ~200 hours tutoring low-income/at risk groups
• Extracurricular activities: 1 leadership position in professional fraternity, competed in national level athletic competition
• Employment history: 2 semesters as TA, 2 years part time tutor, gap year job is MCAT director at a small test prep company
• Specialty of interest: neurology, psychiatry
• Potential red flag: minor alcohol violation as a freshman that resulted in IA (had to write a reflection paper). I explained how I learned from the incident in my AMCAS.

With a 3.9/524 and the usual boxes checked, there are some stats-focused t20s who are eventually going to invite you to interview or I'll eat my shoe. Just wait it out.

 

[MyOdyssey]

About half of my list was composed of T20 schools, and I've heard nothing from any of them so far even though it's been over two months. Is there something wrong with my app? I'm beginning to think I messed up with my essays. :/

• Cumulative GPA: 3.88
• Science GPA: 3.84
• MCAT Scores: 524 (130/131/131/132)
• Research: 1000+ hours over 2 years, independent project, small funding award from school, 1 minor poster presentation
• Volunteering (clinical): 500+ as EMT, 20 hours at hospital ER
• Physician shadowing: 70 Hours across Internal Medicine, Neurology, Neurosurgery, Pathology
• Non-clinical volunteering: ~200 hours tutoring low-income/at risk groups
• Extracurricular activities: 1 leadership position in professional fraternity, competed in national level athletic competition
• Employment history: 2 semesters as TA, 2 years part time tutor, gap year job is MCAT director at a small test prep company
• Specialty of interest: neurology, psychiatry
• Potential red flag: minor alcohol violation as a freshman that resulted in IA (had to write a reflection paper). I explained how I learned from the incident in my AMCAS.

Did you apply MD or MD/PhD?

Did you apply to known stats heavy schools like Wash U, NYU, Chicago?

 

[lil_engine]

Did you apply MD or MD/PhD?

Did you apply to known stats heavy schools like Wash U, NYU, Chicago?

MD, and yes, all three.

 

[deleted938090]

Average wait time between secondary submission and II for me is around 40 days at the t20 schools. Keep waiting.

 

[dodolol21]

don't worry, dude. there's a lot of us like you. About the same research with slightly weaker clinical and stronger service and leadership. My MCAT is a bit lower at 520, but GPA slightly higher, and although I've gotten an enormous amount of love from my mid/low tier in-state schools (meaning I probably don't have red flags), I've gotten 3 T25 IIs, but two of them have a strong in-state bias. I got the OOS T5 II all the way back in July (submitted all secondaries within 12 hours), and its been silence from the others. Just gotta wait around and see what happens!

 

[LebronManning]

You got an IA (Probation, Suspension) from your first minor alcohol infraction in college?

 

[lil_engine]

You got an IA (Probation, Suspension) from your first minor alcohol infraction in college?

The IA was writing a short reflection paper and then turning it in to the Dean of Students. pretty minor

 

[Goro]

The IA was writing a short reflection paper and then turning it in to the Dean of Students. pretty minor

Yup. VERY minor.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Give it 2 months then come back

 

[LebronManning]

The IA was writing a short reflection paper and then turning it in to the Dean of Students. pretty minor

What I was getting at is...there’s full possibility that’s not even an IA at all that would need to be reported. Some sort of sanction has to be given for it to be an IA. Generally at schools the first alcohol violation is a warning or reflection paper that is made clear not to be IA.

Definitely very minor but I don’t think it’s a complete non issue when you’re talking top 20

 

[lil_engine]

What I was getting at is...there’s full possibility that’s not even an IA at all that would need to be reported. Some sort of sanction has to be given for it to be an IA. Generally at schools the first alcohol violation is a warning or reflection paper that is made clear not to be IA.

Definitely very minor but I don’t think it’s a complete non issue when you’re talking top 20

The office of student affairs said it was IA and that I should report it, so that's what I did. Would something that minor keep me from getting an II?

 

[MyOdyssey]

Average wait time between secondary submission and II for me is around 40 days at the t20 schools. Keep waiting.

Did you apply MD or MD/Phd?

 

[LizzyM]

I'd expect that you'll have one T20 interview by the end of December. The IA may be a speed bump (not a road block) in this process for you, OP. Have you had any interviews at all?

 

[lil_engine]

I'd expect that you'll have one T20 interview by the end of December. The IA may be a speed bump (not a road block) in this process for you, OP. Have you had any interviews at all?

Yes, I have a few from my state schools.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, I have a few from my state schools.

Then it is unlikely that you have a bad letter or a terrible personal statement.

 

[Robin-jay]

What I was getting at is...there’s full possibility that’s not even an IA at all that would need to be reported. Some sort of sanction has to be given for it to be an IA. Generally at schools the first alcohol violation is a warning or reflection paper that is made clear not to be IA.

Definitely very minor but I don’t think it’s a complete non issue when you’re talking top 20

Its definitely an IA.

 

[LebronManning]

Its definitely an IA.

Well yeah if the student conduct office says it is which wasn’t included in the original post.

Often times though, a reflection letter is a warning that is not an IA

 

[MyOdyssey]

Then it is unlikely that you have a bad letter or a terrible personal statement.

In your view, @LizzyM, is the OP a little light on research experience and/or accomplishments (e.g. no published research) to be in the top tier of candidates at T20s?

 

[Robin-jay]

Well yeah if the student conduct office says it is which wasn’t included in the original post.

Often times though, a reflection letter is a warning that is not an IA

Anything recorded is essentially an IA. If you have the incident recorded by student conduct, its 99% likely to be an IA.

Even a recorded warning is an IA.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm not too familiar with the admissions practices of T20s, but you have a red flag combined with appearing to have absolutely no life or interests outside of academics/medicine. Also a lack of productive research, which I expect T20s want.

I was a bottom tier institution, but my classmates were triathletes, owned race car companies, lawyers, accomplished musicians, etc.

You have competitive stats, but there are some big downsides to your application that may get in the way of you making into a top tier program.

 

[kris400158]

To be fair you could be in my shoes and have had an interview from Harvard, but radio silence at all other 20 schools you applied at (including state schools), conserving one other II and 2 Rs

 

[lil_engine]

I'm not too familiar with the admissions practices of T20s, but you have a red flag combined with appearing to have absolutely no life or interests outside of academics/medicine. Also a lack of productive research, which I expect T20s want.

I was a bottom tier institution, but my classmates were triathletes, owned race car companies, lawyers, accomplished musicians, etc.

You have competitive stats, but there are some big downsides to your application that may get in the way of you making into a top tier program.

I didn't include all of my hobbies/outside interests in this post for the sake of anonymity, but I did include them in my app. One of these hobbies I've done since I was 12 and competed in a national level competition.

I definitely see your point with the lack of publications and IA issue though.

 

[lil_engine]

To be fair you could be in my shoes and have had an interview from Harvard, but radio silence at all other 20 schools you applied at (including state schools), conserving one other II and 2 Rs

Wow, that is crazy, when were you complete?

 

[kris400158]

Ranging from 8/1-8/20 (Harvard at 8/1, state school at 8/17)

Wow, that is crazy, when were you complete?

 

[lil_engine]

Ranging from 8/1-8/20 (Harvard at 8/1, state school at 8/17)

That's around the same time I was complete, too. Hopefully we'll hear back from more schools soon!

 

[manohman]

To be fair you could be in my shoes and have had an interview from Harvard, but radio silence at all other 20 schools you applied at (including state schools), conserving one other II and 2 Rs

dude exact same here. makes me feel like that interview was a fluke. i had another two but rejected by my state just yesterday lol. im guessing we have similar LizzyM/stats too lol.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

You sound like a very competitive applicant.
Trouble is the top 20 have an abundance of highly competitive applicants, so to them, you're probably pretty average...

Good news is that you're not in the quick-rejection pile.
Bad news is that you're also, apparently, not in the "OMG! Gotta send this one an interview invitation right this minute!" pile either.

Just remember to breathe. And hopefully, you also applied to a number of 30-50's and your state schools who will be delighted to have you.

Suppose that our hero had something like a first-author Nature paper, or was a Special Forces combat medic. Would this put him in the "OMG! Gotta send this one an interview invitation right this minute!" pile? What would it take to enter that pile? The Medal of Honor?

 

[deleted938090]

Suppose that our hero had something like a first-author Nature paper, or was a Special Forces combat medic. Would this put him in the "OMG! Gotta send this one an interview invitation right this minute!" pile? What would it take to enter that pile? The Medal of Honor?

Jonny Kim - Wikipedia

This guy.

 

[FroYoOreo]

Jonny Kim - Wikipedia

This guy.

Jesus

 

[skk_]

Suppose that our hero had something like a first-author Nature paper, or was a Special Forces combat medic. Would this put him in the "OMG! Gotta send this one an interview invitation right this minute!" pile? What would it take to enter that pile? The Medal of Honor?

Here's a list of some of the more memorable non-medicine-related ECs that people I met at Top 10 second looks during my cycle had:

• Won Olympic gold medals
• Played in the NFL for several years
• Career changers who left behind amazing careers to go into medicine (very successful CEOs, senior VPs, lawyers etc.)
• First author in Nature/Cell-tier w/o PhD, and multiple people who were very clearly the proteges of nobel laureates
• PhDs with tenure-worthy research backgrounds
• People who started successful startups and nonprofits (including one that managed to raise 7 figures+ in response to a recent disaster)
• More Marshall/Rhodes/Fulbright scholars than I could count (15%~ of my class at the school I matriculated at lol)

This said, I had none of that and still did pretty well during my cycle (accepts at Harvard, Stanford, Penn etc.) despite being no one special and just having a generally competitive application. While its fun to think everyone at top tier schools are like Jonny Kim, the reality is that those people are an extreme rarity, and most people aren't like that at all.

Unless there's some hidden redflag somewhere, I can't imagine OP striking out on top tier IIs completely with his/her stats, especially at places that love high stat applicants. Its still somewhat early, so I wouldn't worry too much yet.

 

[deleted938090]

• Won Olympic gold medals
• Played in the NFL for several years
• Career changers who left behind amazing careers to go into medicine (very successful CEOs, senior VPs, lawyers etc.)
• First author in Nature/Cell-tier w/o PhD, and multiple people who were very clearly the proteges of nobel laureates
• PhDs with tenure-worthy research backgrounds
• People who started successful startups and nonprofits (including one that managed to raise 7 figures+ in response to a recent disaster)
• More Marshall/Rhodes/Fulbright scholars than I could count (15%~ of my class at the school I matriculated at lol

Considering a lot of these achievements require multiple years of experience post-undergrad, it shouldn’t be too surprising that most 21-22 year olds who matriculate to these schools don’t have these.

 

[Dr. Mike Trout]

Still had interviews.... unlike some of us

 

[deleted938090]

This also raises another point. It’s okay to want to go into a top institution because they have certain resources that align with your interests. But it’s unreasonable to say you want to go into xx medical school because there are so many talented candidates to choose from. This is only a part of your education, and the best students stand out at whatever institution they go to. Even if someone were say, top 5% at a top ranked school, they would still be successful at a lesser ranked school of a similar tier.

 

[ak-aka-dak]

There are several differences in your stats compared to what you posted on a WAMC when you were submitting your app, so it’s hard to say what the problem might be. Both lists of stats look fine, but maybe neither are accurate? If the latter is the case, then maybe your school list is too top-heavy.

Non-Trad
ORM

sGPA 3.85
MCAT 520

Clinical Volunteering in 2018 (Worried it's all this year)180 hours
Hospice 70
Hospital 110

Shadowing - 200 hours assorted

NonClinical Volunteering = 1400 hours
-Teaching inmates at a prison (350 hours)
-Mentoring disadvantaged children (450 hrs)
-Mentoring disadvantaged youth (600 hours)

Research = 4000 hours + 2 publications
- full time during gap years
-Undergraduate research 300 hours
-Part of team developing Biomedical Device (400 hours)

Employment
-Tutoring for Money 1500 hrs+

Internship
Pharma 2 Summers

 

[deleted938090]

Remember that 99 percentile MCATs become median or bottom 50% mcats of matriculants at these schools too. Median Mcat 521 makes 99% around 50%, 520 could be below average. High Mcat stats by no means guarantees anyone admission because there are so many people with higher.

 

[manohman]

OP for what it’s worth. Im in the same boat as you minus one interview at a top school.

Lizzym75. Nontrad. 1400+ non clin volunteering. 150+ clinical. Years of research. 2 pubs.

Been a patient half my life and my ECs were presumably “interesting”. Dedicated service and research.

Buttttttt silence from most schools.I was compete in July.

I had no red flags but I did talk about something intense in my PS. But i think thats half of why i got my Top 10 interview. Maybe also half of why i have no others lol.

Just posting to say youre not alone! it helped me to see there were others who were also waiting.Hard not to feel singled out (literally lol). If you ever want to vent let me know! I took another job to clear my mind lol

 

[DokterMom]

I think it helps to have a 'sound bite' -- something memorable and unique about your application. Like ex. Navy Seal, Olympic Athlete, former Miss America, Peace Corps in Angola, etc. Something that sets you apart --

Edit: To clarify, I don't mean you necessarily have to have something of this caliber, but in a whole ocean full of superstars, an easy tag line -- "Remember, he's the one that invented the Rent-a-Widget Ap" or "She's the one who started the NGO to feed feral cats". Just something where they can remember you and tell you apart from all of the other superstars.