Simultaneous Careers: Mental Health Counselor & Stripper

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futurefreud2014

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First of all, I AM DEAD SERIOUS. I am currently a psychology/honors program/aging studies minor student with a 4.0 GPA and am graduating two years early. I am also running an independent experiment which may be published (I haven't finished analyzing the data yet). I have been stripping once a week in order to support myself since my father is emotionally abusive and my mother is below the poverty line. I shouldn't have to post such personal information, but I feel I must in order to avoid any judgment. I LOVE my job; it has allowed me to make lots of money and keep school a priority. Anyways, I plan on becoming a Clinical Mental Health Counselor and was wondering if I could still be a stripper? I would obviously do it in a different town, I just want to make sure my license won't be taken away. I can't ask the grad schools I'm looking at because they might stigmatize me. Psychology scholars should know better, but they apparently don't. I have anonymously contacted the Society of Counseling Psychology and they ignored my e-mail. This is a serious question and I will only entertain those that are interesting in providing me an answer. Thank you.

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Interesting. Its a free country lady, so of course you can. And I can see you have thought this through thoroughly since you are planning on doing this in the next town over and no client could ever travel to the next own over. :)

In all seriousness, your asking the wrong question. Is this a good idea, I think is the more appropriate question. Its quite clear you are not proud of this and will be trying to hide it, as you know this is likely to effect your practice and other professionals opinions of you. This leads me to think that you have some insight into the fact that maybe something is right about this. Yet, you are continuing to plan on doing/hiding it. What do you think this about? Do you think a licensing board could construe that this decision calls into question your professional judgment?
 
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First off, thank you for replying. Do you think they could actually take my license away because I do something that is legal? Well, to be honest, I enjoy it and am not ready to give it up yet. When I become a counselor I will only be 23 years-old. I don't think there is anything wrong with what I do, but I was going to do it in a different town so that my clients won't feel awkward when they come to therapy. Most of the guys I talk to at work have a therapist, which is why they are drawn to strippers (we are basically naked therapists). I don't hide what I do right now, but I will when I'm a professional in order to avoid missing opportunities based on others' close-mindedness. I also plan on writing books about my experiences.
 
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I will repeat my question in case you have not reflected upon it. In your opinion, does this reflect appropriate professional judgment? If you can answer this question without any hesitation, then go for it. However, I would encourage you to factor in the opinions of others and spend some time thinking about why you think they would be so disapproving of this, rather than simply dismissing their opinion as "close-minded." Could there, perhaps, be another reason why people would "frown" upon such a thing?

Also, I am not sure I understand why you think legality has anything to do with a state licensing board's authority to pull a persons license. For example, its not illegal to be bad therapist, but "gross incompetence" is obviously a justifiable reason to suspend or revoke a practice license, no?

None of the above should be construed as viewing stripping or strippers as "wrong." But I think there are a lot of potential clinical and ethical issues that you have not yet considered.
 
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I think it does because counseling is an under-paid field and therapists actually would make the best entertainers anyway. But to answer my question, they can take your license away if they want? There are no "forbidden" things you can't do? I'm pretty sure if they fired me I would point out there was no ethical code against having a second job as a dancer. A journalist that got fired opened up a huge case about this, so hopefully by the time I'm licensed I won't have to worry about it.
 
Moral turpitude is a legal concept in the United States and some other countries that refers to "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals Most licensing boards provide this as a justifiable reason for revokation or suspension of license. Mine does. How bout yours?

That aside, in your opnion, why might other licensed mental health professional think this might not be an appopriate second job for a fellow clinician?

Lastly, employers can "fire" their employees for any reason they want, doesnt matter if you violated an ethics code or not. If they dont like you, you get fired. There doesnt have to be a "reason" at all. That the way the world works.
 
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I will also preface my comments to say I'm not judging you or others who work as strippers…

Let's put licensing aside for a moment. To give some context to what's already been said, this is a field where therapists are often worried about how they will handle a client seeing them out to dinner with family, and strategize how to handle these types of run-ins ahead of time. This is because the therapeutic relationship is a very delicate one and all sorts of factors can affect it. Thinking in these terms, imagine what situations you might find yourself in as a result of your second job. As mentioned above, going to a different part of town or a different town altogether most likely will not affect the potential of run-ins with your clients. I don't know what the situation was with the journalist, but I can't see how the two professions can be compared in this case. The stigma is really the least concerning issue in my opinion.
 
I have been leading the poster down this path ever since my first post. However, I'm not sure they are able to get there. This, in and of itself, is concerning, as part of being a competent clinician is being able to think flexibly and to anticipate ethical and clinical slippery slopes.
 
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I apologize for my delay, I don't go on the internet much. I understand the complications it could bring, but it could also be a good thing as well. For instance, when I'm talking to a guy at work and he reveals he is depressed, or has a drinking problem, I can't do anything except offer him advice. However, as a therapist, I could hand him my card and he would be so shocked/intrigued and may only come because he's never known a therapist/stripper. That would be the bait. But when he comes in, I could truly help him. I plan on going into private practice, so I'm not worried about being fired, just about losing my license. But now I am afraid of moral turpitude, so I may only do it through graduate school. I assure you I can think flexibly, that is why I came to these forums before even entering graduate school. I don't want to mess anything up. To be honest, though, I wish psychologists/therapists/psychiatrists could spend one night in my shoes so they see how similar it is to therapy. I know it sounds extreme, but this is the most clinical experience I've received. I volunteer for a suicide hotline and those people don't open up as much as these guys do. Anyways, I just wanted to know if I would lose my license and now I know I probably would.
 
If you're going to hand the folks you see as a stripper your business card for therapy, doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of stripping in another town so clients don't run into you? (Even then, most strip joints I've known about have clientele who visit from nearby towns. Hell, I know guys who jump state lines for their favorite place to see a bit o' flesh.)

And, if you do start seeing one of these individuals in a therapeutic relationship, I highly suspect someone might potentially argue that this is a conflict of interest and/or violation of not engaging in sexual activities/contact with clients (despite whether or not you actually touch said client). Then, there are other parts of some mental health professionals' ethics codes which specifically discuss solicitation (not engaging in uninvited solicitation of potential clients due to their situation, vulnerability, etc.), maintaining integrity of the profession, etc.

Regardless, you may want to search for others who have been in this situation. I seem to recall seeing a blog some time ago re: a grad student who was also stripping. (I see this being tricky if you're in a program that prevents students from working at all OR that requires students to obtain prior approval before working some outside gig. Just a few more things to ponder . . .)
 
I apologize for my delay, I don't go on the internet much. I understand the complications it could bring, but it could also be a good thing as well. For instance, when I'm talking to a guy at work and he reveals he is depressed, or has a drinking problem, I can't do anything except offer him advice. However, as a therapist, I could hand him my card and he would be so shocked/intrigued and may only come because he's never known a therapist/stripper. That would be the bait. But when he comes in, I could truly help him. I plan on going into private practice, so I'm not worried about being fired, just about losing my license. But now I am afraid of moral turpitude, so I may only do it through graduate school. I assure you I can think flexibly, that is why I came to these forums before even entering graduate school. I don't want to mess anything up. To be honest, though, I wish psychologists/therapists/psychiatrists could spend one night in my shoes so they see how similar it is to therapy. I know it sounds extreme, but this is the most clinical experience I've received. I volunteer for a suicide hotline and those people don't open up as much as these guys do. Anyways, I just wanted to know if I would lose my license and now I know I probably would.

I do believe you have good intentions, but I think you have a deeply misguided understanding of many aspects of the mental health field. The bolded part is what is most concerning to me. You need to do some exploring of this field to find out about a) what therapists do exactly, b) ethical violations, including the code of ethics that obliges us to do what is best for our patients. We're all aware that people are hesitant to come to therapy, and while we all look for creative ways to break down the stigma, I don't think baiting someone with the idea of a therapist/stripper is the best way to go about it.

The poster above me said it perfectly:

And, if you do start seeing one of these individuals in a therapeutic relationship, I highly suspect someone might potentially argue that this is a conflict of interest and/or violation of not engaging in sexual activities/contact with clients (despite whether or not you actually touch said client). Then, there are other parts of some mental health professionals' ethics codes which specifically discuss solicitation (not engaging in uninvited solicitation of potential clients due to their situation, vulnerability, etc.), maintaining integrity of the profession, etc.

Seriously. Think about my previous comment about seeing clients in public places and think about some of the things you've suggested. We don't have these concerns because we're just a bunch of stuck-up prudes.
 
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To the OP: First of all your name and the topics of your posts is really disturbing......to the point though; you start off by making excuses for being a stripper, as if you are ashamed. Then you say it's to support you through school. Then you say you love your job? Isn't dancing just means to an end? Why continue once you have your degree? Is it that enjoyable? If so maybe you should be a feature entertainer, no I'm not being sarcastic here, I too have occasionally worked in certain places I would rather not list on any resume to make ends meet, but never concurrently with my final career goal. In so many words I guess I am saying I am familiar with the business, and having been in those shoes, I can honestly say it's not even remotely similar to therapy. It is drunk horny men telling you stuff, because they are......dun dun dun.......drunk! Not because you are some awesome awe-inspiring benevolent stripper who exudes warmth, they only care about warmth coming from one place, and here's a hint, it's below your heart......

I can honestly say this is ridiculous because I have been there, so if you are offended by my marginally inflammatory response, don't be, because I've been in those 7 inch shoes, so I'm not just commenting randomly. I'll admit the first month there is a certain allure that you feel you're special because people open up to you while paying you, which is easy to rationalize as "they really liked our time spent together - when in reality the conversation went in one ear and out of the other, they enjoyed seeing your breasts" - then reality sets in, you were the new girl, a new face, new boobs, purveyors of the adult entertainment business will open up to the next new face/boobs too.

This is honestly a bit offensive and really confusing, especially for me on a personal level, that you think guys who go to a strip club to view women as sex objects and escape reality would even remember that you are a therapist, or remember your name for that matter. Also if you ever did a dumb-ass thing like hand them your card, they'd call you - but it sure wouldn't be for therapy......at least not the type you claim to be espousing. Strip clubs are a vortex of negativity in so many ways (the alcohol, the objectivity, the drugs, the escapism) it's not a place people go who want to get better it's a place people go to perpetuate negative coping mechanisms. The skin business has been around too long for you to just swoop in and eradicate the fact that those who go there aren't doing so as some subliminal cry for help, they are doing it because they want to indulge in hedonistic pleasures and engage in behavior that is mentally damaging to themselves and if they subject themselves that environment frequently, it is probably damaging to their interpersonal relationships on some level. But they don't care. You certainly aren't going to make them care, you are just going to get in trouble, get booty calls, and embarrass the profession you are supposedly trying to practice.

A man that has seen your boobs before you utter a word to them is going to have that impression seared into their brain, humans, but especially males, are very visual creatures. Therefore your first (naked) impression is branded into his mind and negating that and getting him to take you seriously is an uphill battle in and of itself.

Also, strippers are not "naked therapists". Most of the girls in there could care less about what their customers say, as long as they get paid. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig, so don't try to rationalize the job and somehow glorify it into something it isn't. It's not bad, but it's a business that is mutually exclusive from therapy, the two do not intersect no matter how badly you want to find a connection. Call a spade a spade and don't delude yourself into thinking you are helping to heal the ailments of those seeking solace in naked women's company - just you and your g-string changing lives one lap dance at a time. LOL, that was a bit sarcastic, but I couldn't resist that comment because, seriously; you, my dear, must be very new to dancing, because it's an extremely toxic environment if one allos themselves to be immersed in it for any prolonged amount of time.
 
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I think everyone desires the chance to empower themselves, and I think, on the surface, stripping can probably do that temporarily. It makes sense to me. Same reason that to be promiscious. Its power. But....is it? There is not alot of critical thinking going on in that particular arguement.
 
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I am currently prevented in writing by my employer from visiting strip clubs, sex stores, or bars. I'm married and wouldn't dream of doing that, so it's largely a moot point.

But I work with people who are often sex-addicted and who would work in these places, but I've always found it a very strong prohibition that no other profession would necessarily have laid out so explicitly. I know physicians who talk about going to topless joints together.

So sometimes, even if it's not explicit in the code of ethics for your profession, and even if it is not technically illegal by law or other custom, your employer (or insurer) could prevent you from doing it.
 
Retail establishments where alcohol is served and that's the primary function.

I can go to restaurants that serve alcohol if the primary purpose is to sell food.
 
I don't think he was asking about the operational definition of the word "bar"; rather, that seems a tad bit restrictive.
 
Yea, that seems kinda nuts. I would hope that is confined to a certain geogrpahic area around the employment site at least. But even then, whats the rationale? Why, exactly, would your presence be SO harmful to this clientele? And what is the treatment model/orientation of this site? There is nothing inherently "wrong" with drinking alcohol or an establishment that serves it. Seems rather paternlistic and insulting to both sides to me.
 
Ah, sorry. I misunderstood that. I'm surprised that you're surprised. Haha.

Our agency is owned by an LDS organization and we're also located between two dry counties, where all alcohol sales are illegal (our county is only partially dry).

It's not as unusual a stipulation as you might think. That "there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol" is a value judgement that plenty of people in this country don't share. I happen to agree with you, but it's not a universal feeling. And the social mores change pretty drastically from place to place.

I lived in Chicago for three years, and alcohol was everywhere there. It wasn't treated as addictive as heroin or benzos. But in many places, it definitely is.

When I think hard about it I know one other agency that requires their employees to refrain from visiting bars. I'm sure there are others, but I haven't asked explicitly.
 
AH. In light the specifics of your organization, it makes sense from a cultural perspective.
 
12 years of Catholic school =unable to understand the concept of "dry" counties. ;)
 
I grew up in a dry county and still couldn't imagine an employer requiring that I refrain from visiting bars.
 
I think it's a combination of three things: a religious-owned agency, a dry county area, and the population served (people in recovery from substance abuse).

P.S. Should this thread be split? It seems odd that most of the conversation has gone this way. Haha...
 
I'm wondering is this is really worse than some of the numerous keg stands and grossly poor judgment reagarding my own safety from the ages of 18-21? I have pics of it too....
 
I'm wondering is this is really worse than some of the numerous keg stands and grossly poor judgment reagarding my own safety from the ages of 18-21? I have pics of it too....
lol, you aren't the only one
 
Tara obviously speaks from experience and it's a perspective you should pay close attention to. You can't live in a world without mutating to fit in, and however it seems now, that world is a very dark one that runs on mutual exploitation. Men exploiting a very specific type of young woman's need for attention and validation, and young women learning how to exploit men's need for sex. All the dancers I've known started out just like you did. But after a few months of constant objectification, it's funny, they kind of lost sympathy for their clients and just wanted to squeeze them for all they were worth. Saying nothing about how unethical it is to even view clients of a therapeutic practice in terms of reeling them in with "bait", or how far-fetched it is to expect grown men to be intrigued by anything a stripper does, I think you should seriously talk to people who have been in the business for a long time and get a feel for what it looks like. I'm only saying this because most of the ones I've known ended up pregnant, addicted to multiple drugs, or both, and if you have a potential career as a therapist ahead of you, you have no business getting sucked into something so negative.
 
I'm wondering is this is really worse than some of the numerous keg stands and grossly poor judgment regarding my own safety from the ages of 18-21? I have pics of it too....
it would be a different situation if you are giving out your business card now as you are doing keg stands.
 
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I apologize for my delay, I don't go on the internet much. I understand the complications it could bring, but it could also be a good thing as well. For instance, when I'm talking to a guy at work and he reveals he is depressed, or has a drinking problem, I can't do anything except offer him advice. However, as a therapist, I could hand him my card and he would be so shocked/intrigued and may only come because he's never known a therapist/stripper. That would be the bait. But when he comes in, I could truly help him. I plan on going into private practice, so I'm not worried about being fired, just about losing my license. But now I am afraid of moral turpitude, so I may only do it through graduate school. I assure you I can think flexibly, that is why I came to these forums before even entering graduate school. I don't want to mess anything up. To be honest, though, I wish psychologists/therapists/psychiatrists could spend one night in my shoes so they see how similar it is to therapy. I know it sounds extreme, but this is the most clinical experience I've received. I volunteer for a suicide hotline and those people don't open up as much as these guys do. Anyways, I just wanted to know if I would lose my license and now I know I probably would.
futurefreud2014, Feb 4, 2014

Futurefreud...it seems you left the thread so you probably got your answer. Even with my minimal mental health experience (versus the other people on this thread!)...I had an audible reaction reading that one line about handing them your therapy card in the strip club. That's just asking for trouble. Boundaries are very important to keep and you're already way breaking that by mixing sexual conduct with someone you see as a prospective client. Not sure how they'd be able to have any boundaries seeing you as a therapist. But more like their secret special sex worker soothing their mind too. Or something. It would just get really weird fast.

On the other hand...if I'm reading between the lines, your work as a stripper has exposed you to a lot of men being frank about their issues, and, obviously there's something in you that wants to help with that...hence the draw to being a counselor? You know, wanting to be able to have the tools to really help people. I would say, if you want to do that....pick one or the other. Go the counseling side fully and make your work about helping people. Or get a counseling degree and then just go back to stripping now knowing how to handle people better...though I'm not sure how ethical that would be either.

Or maybe you can be a 'life coach' or something that doesn't require legit licensure or regulations. But be warned, handing men in a strip club your card to help "save" them could lead down very weird, even dangerous paths...you've been warned from this thread...
 
This is fascinating and an intriguing question. I think others have asked you very good questions and offered great insight into the concerns that review boards, insurance companies, and the clients themselves would have. But what I am curious to find out is what type of therapy modality do you plan on practicing? Psychoanalysis would be out of the question (do you agree?) and most treatments in which transference is important/possible would be very difficult to enact.
 
As a CMHC/LPC I doubt you would make it through any program that required you to self-disclose and work on your own issues. In my experience - the good ones require this.

If you are determined to make these two professions work together - find a program that doesn't require its students to have their own therapy as part of becoming a therapist.

Avoid programs that use words like transference, countertransference, psychotherapy, depth work, analysis. Look for programs that use words like CBT, behavioral analysis, etc.

As far as losing your license - yes that line of work would increase the chances - the bigger question is would you be able to do the work to earn the license in the first place. You are earnest and serious - but you haven't convinced me.

And I am all about self-empowerment - women using their bodies in any way that deepens and enhances their self-esteem - and I would encourage you to be a client with a few folks with the license that you are interested in earning - and as a client see if you can tell your truth and be non-defensive and non reactive. If you can - you might be able to find a way. If you can't you might find the answers to the questions you are asking here. Either way - it will give you valuable information about the profession.
 
I don't think anyone could actually take your license away because of this, so you're safe in that regard. However, I think if people found out about this, it might cause some kind of scandal / make patients reluctant to see you. Not saying it's right, but that's what might happen. But, you need the money so I guess you have to do whatever it takes.
 
I don't think anyone could actually take your license away because of this, so you're safe in that regard. However, I think if people found out about this, it might cause some kind of scandal / make patients reluctant to see you. Not saying it's right, but that's what might happen. But, you need the money so I guess you have to do whatever it takes.
So we are bringing this thread back?
 
 
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The ethics of stripping and therapy wasn't in my EPPP study packet, so here's my study question:

1. Suzy is a clinical psychologist who has taken a second job as a stripper. Which is the least appropriate response when she realizes she is providing a nude lap dance for a current client?

a. utilize the opportunity to provide in vivo flooding treatment for the client's erectile dysfunction
b. tell the client to bring his wife in for a threesome session next time
c. charge the client extra because you will be demonstrating sensate focus techniques
d. see if that is really just a cigar

When I was little I wanted to be an astronaut. Turns out I didn't know the first thing about what it takes to actually become one. That said, I think this discussion is moot in reference to the OP. A good read though.
 
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I don't think anyone could actually take your license away because of this, so you're safe in that regard. However, I think if people found out about this, it might cause some kind of scandal / make patients reluctant to see you. Not saying it's right, but that's what might happen. But, you need the money so I guess you have to do whatever it takes.

For MSW students reading this thread, I occasionally work professionally with an individual on the social work licensing board in my state. So one day, as we were discussing ethics, I brought up this situation. As I guessed, she said that in our state, the licensing board would most likely find the therapist (LCSW) in violation of several ethical codes (dual relationship comes to mind first) and remove their license. She said in these cases it's usually the clients that make a complaint to the licensing board.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo the above post is wrong. At least in regards to my state and social work licensure. Not that anyone in this thread actually thought that stripping on the side of a private practice therapy was a good idea, but the thought experiment was interesting.
 
Hi OP! I can actually answer your question pretty accurately because I was, in fact, a stripper for several years through my late teens and very early 20s. I haven't been one for years now though, but stripping allowed me to pay for my education and living expenses, and to save money to start other businesses that have turned successful. While I only completed about 1 year of MFT, I still feel like I can give you helpful advice.

First and foremost, its obvious that you aren't ashamed of your job so please ignore any of the rude, misinformed, and negative comments that this board gives you. These are people in the vanilla world, and they will judge as someone in the vanilla world. They don't and have never been a stripper, so all they can do is rely on untrue (or a small percentage, at best) stereotypes. You and I both know that stripping is just a job, and many strippers have degrees, are married, or whatever else society refuses to believe. Some of the most intelligent people I have met have been sexworkers. You and I both also know that there are many, many, many women who are sexworkers and just never tell anyone except their significant other, so others have no idea they are one.

That being said, personally, I would not recommend working as a sexworker concurrently while working in the mental health field with a license. Not at all because sexwork is ~*bad*~ or ~*immoral*~ (I don't believe sexwork is AT ALL immoral or bad), but because there are catty, petty people in both the mental health field AND sexwork who will do anything in their power to destroy your life in order to make themselves feel better. I think you can see that just from the rude comments you've received on this thread alone. Mental health providers will be envious that you can make the good side money you do as a stripper, and strippers will be envious that you have a (hopefully) stable vanilla job that required time and dedication to achieve. I can foresee the horrors of jealous mental health providers emailing/calling whomever they can (your state's board of behavior sciences) reporting "unprofessional conduct" and trying to get your license taken away from you. I can also foresee the horrors of jealous dancers leaving (faux) bad yelp reviews stating you are also a stripper at XX club using the name XX.

If you don't want to take no for an answer, what you could do is travel dance. Where you travel for a week or maybe 10 days at a time, per month, to an area that is in "season" at that time. That way, you can still dance away from home, but still remain a therapist when you are at home. And if anyone recognizes you (HIGHLY unlikely), just deny deny deny. Those club lights are dark. Stripping is legal, and what we do on our own personal time is our own business IMO.

I hope that is helpful :). You may also want to join the StripperWeb forum, as they are very helpful as well.
 
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The person appears to be long gone, Neutralpallette. And to be clear, no one stated or implied the peerson was not "intelligent." We did imply she wasnt thinking critically about the ethical and clinical issues of doing the two jobs concurrently.

In terms of morality, the only mention that was made was in terms or moral/deceney clauses that most state licesning boards continue to maintain in order to ensure that people offering health service delivery public excercise good judgment, even outside when office (ie., DUIs are sometimes grounds for license suspension). While I personally revere Mary Magdalene as much as any other follower , I am glad she was able to find a calling that was less objectiying. :)

Also, is your consistent theme of "mental health practitioners are jealous of those that make alot a money" a projection or something? Where is this coming from, exactly? Do you think this belief/perception could be influenced by your seeming preoccupation with money?
 
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I am actually appreciating the well-thought out response from neutralpalette. I attended undergrad with a psychology major who was a stripper and wanted to be a therapist. I don't know what ever became of her, though as my wife didn't like me making school friends that were strippers for some reason. Speaking as a hetero male and not as a psychologist, I would probably enjoy seeing a therapist who works as a stripper, and the more Freudian the better! "Tell me more about your erotic fantasies of me", she said in a sultry voice. :D
 
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Also, is your consistent theme of "mental health practitioners are jealous of those that make alot a money" a projection or something? Where is this coming from, exactly? Do you think this belief/perception could be influenced by your seeming preoccupation with money?

...Again with the stereotypes? Really??

Aside from personal experience and things I've seen with my own eyes, I think that because of common things like this:

... though as my wife didn't like me making school friends that were strippers for some reason.

Its just the facts of life that people (especially women) are threatened by conventionally attractive women. And people (especially men) are threatened by people with money. Its a huge threat on a biological level since women value their looks and men value resources.

Stripping is just a job. Just as people who work at McDonalds aren't obsessed with burgers, people that work as a sexworker aren't obsessed with sex. Yes, lets "not like" someone because of their occupation. In reality, that makes no sense. The reality is that these people "don't like" the stripper because this person is a threat. Physical beauty + confidence + money.


Lastly, (@erg923) though it is none of your business, I will say that I do not have a preoccupation with money. I run businesses, so obviously I have to care about things like profit. But I actually rarely spend money unless I have to, and when I do spend money, I buy items that are cost-effective yet still high quality so I don't have to buy another one. But that's not anyone's business.
 
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So I'm guessing that in your experience, you believe women who are victimized in the sex industry (or are victimized before going in) are a minority?
 
So I'm guessing that in your experience, you believe women who are victimized in the sex industry (or are victimized before going in) are a minority?

Yep. Definitely. Strip clubs are largely professional. It is a business, run with a manager and staff. They have rules, laws, and standards they must follow or they'll be shut down. None of them want to lose their job.

Many women are only strippers just to pay for school since they can achieve high pay with part-time, flexible hours. And many tell absolutely no one, or just their significant other. There are also many nurses who moonlight as a stripper, or people with dayjobs. Many women are married. They are just your average woman.

(And personally, I think it would be awfully hard for a woman with mental health issues & unresolved trauma to be dedicated enough to show up for her work schedule, and then be in the right mindset to "hustle" aka sell lapdances and champagne rooms during her shift. Who wants to spend time with & money on an unhappy person or emotionally unstable person? No one. And 100% of a dancer's pay are from tips, dances, and rooms she sold.)

The myth you wrote stems from... well, was created back in the 70s/80s/early 90s when the economy was BOOMING, so many of the women who were dancers either did it as a last resort (since there were so many other jobs available!), or with higher end clubs: because they were exceptionally attractive and often did mainstream acting or model work. However, this really hasn't been even remotely true since like the late 90s.

Though not entirely related, this may help to you as well: http://cltampa.com/dailyloaf/archiv...stars-are-happier-and-have-higher-self-esteem http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939 - I'm only posting those because no study has (or could) been done on strippers. There are too many variables and factors to do a study on strippers alone.
 
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Well, there are many research studies to support that prostitutes (specifically) are highly victimized and abused, and if not abused while working as a prostitute, they were abused before deciding to become a prostitute. An extremely high percentage (can't recall from my readings right off the top of my head) are victims of human trafficking. This applies even in the Netherlands where prostitution has been legal for a long time. So it's not a myth per say, but I don't recall reading any specific studies on strippers alone. I need to go look through my articles and see if strippers were included in "sex workers" or not. I don't think its a myth, but it's more that people might be generalizing. In my personal experience, all the women that I know who were strippers were victims of either domestic abuse or sexual abuse by a partner. But my personal experience includes n=2 so that obviously doesn't mean it's true for everyone.

I need to dig them out, but I can link a ton of articles that show just the opposite of the results you linked in "Pornography Actresses: An assessment of the Damaged Goods Hypothesis." However, like I said, a lot of the research focuses on prostitutes/sex workers specifically and not strippers. I also think that it's an industry that takes advantage of low income families, but that's a whole other discussion.

I don't think the issue is having a past as a stripper, I just really think it's a Bad Idea (TM) to do it concurrently while being a mental health counselor.
 
Though not entirely related, this may help to you as well: http://cltampa.com/dailyloaf/archiv...stars-are-happier-and-have-higher-self-esteem http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167939 - I'm only posting those because no study has (or could) been done on strippers. There are too many variables and factors to do a study on strippers alone.

The article says that the average career for the women was 3.5 years. If it's such a great job and they enjoy it so much and it's so beneficial, why is the average career 3.5 years? I'd be interested in the face validity of how they measured their happiness and self-esteem. I imagine it was apparent that the women knew they were asking questions about happiness and such to study the effects porn acting . The women could be defensive of their choices and over report happiness and esteem, etc. They say they are happier so they are? Not that simple.

More substance use than the average, wonder why that could be? I've seen porn stars interviewed talking about how many women use drugs to get through a scene, literally using right before the scene. In general, people don't use substances because things are great in life.
 
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Well, there are many research studies to support that prostitutes (specifically) are highly victimized and abused, and if not abused while working as a prostitute, they were abused before deciding to become a prostitute. An extremely high percentage (can't recall from my readings right off the top of my head) are victims of human trafficking. This applies even in the Netherlands where prostitution has been legal for a long time. So it's not a myth per say, but I don't recall reading any specific studies on strippers alone. I need to go look through my articles and see if strippers were included in "sex workers" or not. I don't think its a myth, but it's more that people might be generalizing. In my personal experience, all the women that I know who were strippers were victims of either domestic abuse or sexual abuse by a partner. But my personal experience includes n=2 so that obviously doesn't mean it's true for everyone.

I need to dig them out, but I can link a ton of articles that show just the opposite of the results you linked in "Pornography Actresses: An assessment of the Damaged Goods Hypothesis." However, like I said, a lot of the research focuses on prostitutes/sex workers specifically and not strippers. I also think that it's an industry that takes advantage of low income families, but that's a whole other discussion.

I don't think the issue is having a past as a stripper, I just really think it's a Bad Idea (TM) to do it concurrently while being a mental health counselor.

Yeah, when you are trafficked, that is NOT being a sexworker. That is being a trafficked victim. We are not talking about that population, because trafficking is illegal and duh, wrong. We are talking about sexworkers that do it out of choice, and that is way more than majority.



The article says that the average career for the women was 3.5 years. If it's such a great job and they enjoy it so much and it's so beneficial, why is the average career 3.5 years? I'd be interested in the face validity of how they measured their happiness and self-esteem. I imagine it was apparent that the women knew they were asking questions about happiness and such to study the effects porn acting . The women could be defensive of their choices and over report happiness and esteem, etc. They say they are happier so they are? Not that simple.

More substance use than the average, wonder why that could be? I've seen porn stars interviewed talking about how many women use drugs to get through a scene, literally using right before the scene. In general, people don't use substances because things are great in life.

^^^ That's the average porn career length. Shooting porn. There's no need for them to shoot longer than that time because they go on and use that exposure and "name" to do other things like feature dance or escort. Many former pornstars that are escorts, charge in the $1,800-$2,200 range per hour. I actually do know a lot of porn stars. Then there are the ones that use their pornstar status to do other lucrative things like: DJ (Jessie Andrews), model mainstream clothing (Nicole Aniston), act (Sasha Grey), sell art (Dani Daniels), write (Asa Akira, Tera Patrick), marry celebs (Brett Rossi), marry rich (Emily Addison) all sorts of lucrative stuff. I only mentioned the ones that openly share those facts about themselves. Many girls prefer to keep their lives private after their career. So those are just some examples, but every girl making mad $$$ or with extreme exposure obviously goes on to either save $$$, marry wealthy, or do something with her exposure. I think its lovely. Many of those girls are highly entrepreneurial.

As for substance abuse, many porn agents actually require drug tests (think Mark Spiegler http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/clients-are-porn-stars-388523 ). Drug use (and the "substance" abuse the study is referring to is ALCOHOL fyi LOL) is no more common than anyone else with a profession with no boss to tell them what they can or can't do. Combine that with being your own boss, and of course that is going to attract more people on average who are free spirits. And drug use doesn't even mean lack of intelligence or out of control of your life. There are lots of intelligent people that smoke MJ or take psychedelics. However, that study is focusing heavily on alcohol, which is legal. So is MJ I suppose.

As much as you won't accept it, I can tell you that "porn" sets are professional, photographers are professional and just like strip club staff, photographers don't want to lose their job or future bookings over working with non-professional girls. Non-professional girls won't make it 3.5 years in the adult industry. Again, awfully hard for someone ****ed up high and out of control of her life to make it to all her shoots in order to keep a professional name for herself... and let alone, to keep her agent who is getting her those bookings! Not to mention, people talk. If a director works with an unprofessional girl, not only will he/she not want to work with her again, he/she will let other people know. The staff on set as well. No one wants to work with an unprofessional girl who isn't professional because a.) its annoying to babysit someone, and b.) no one wants their precious time wasted. Sets aren't paid by the hour, they are paid by the scene, so people want to leave as soon as it can possibly be finished.

Lets also just say that I may or may not have been a nude model in the past, so I might know a thing or two about that industry as well ;)
 
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