Since when does med school= nursing?

[tdram]

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Oh god, another nurse that wants to be called doctor

I think we should just all stop using the title Dr. and call ourselves Person, MD or something, then what are the doctor-nurses gonna do???

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I think we should just all stop using the title Dr. and call ourselves Person, MD or something, then what are the doctor-nurses gonna do???

They will be Person X, MD (Midlevel Doctor)

 

[alpinism]

Why is "student doctor" pretentious?

After all, I can verify that nursing students are referred to as "student nurse"; the OR tech students are "student techs" etc. Are those pretentious?

eh just my opinion, but I don't use the title for 2 reasons:

1. It's confusing/misleading. If I didn't know you and you walked into the room and introduced yourself as student doctor WS, I'd have no idea who you are or your level of training. And I'm an educated medical student almost physician. For people not in healthcare, it would be even more confusing. Student doctor could mean a number of things: Medical student, resident (who are truly both students and doctors), fellow (same as resident), or even premedical student (technically they're studying to be a doctor as well) or DNP student. Hence why the "student doctor network" contains forums for premeds, medical students, and residents as well as allied health fields.

Medical student is medical student. There is no ambiguity. Sure some people less educated or with little healthcare experience might get confused once and a while, but overall much less than student doctor.

2. During med school when you talked to your family, friends, or classmates did you call yourself and each other student doctor? I sure didn't. If you're only using it in front of patients so they'll respect you more because of a title, that sounds a bit pretentious to me.

 

[tdram]

They will be Person X, MD (Midlevel Doctor)

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

 

[touchpause13]

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

That's just sad...

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

 

[Promethean]

Oh god, another nurse that wants to be called doctor

If the nurse puts in the work to go to medical school, then what on earth could you have against that?

Hoping that was just a joke that fell flat.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

eh just my opinion, but I don't use the title for 2 reasons:

1. It's confusing/misleading. If I didn't know you and you walked into the room and introduced yourself as student doctor WS, I'd have no idea who you are or your level of training. And I'm an educated medical student almost physician. For people not in healthcare, it would be even more confusing. Student doctor could mean a number of things: Medical student, resident (who are truly both students and doctors), fellow (same as resident), or even premedical student (technically they're studying to be a doctor as well) or DNP student. Hence why the "student doctor network" contains forums for premeds, medical students, and residents as well as allied health fields.

Medical student is medical student. There is no ambiguity. Sure some people less educated or with little healthcare experience might get confused once and a while, but overall much less than student doctor.

2. During med school when you talked to your family, friends, or classmates did you call yourself and each other student doctor? I sure didn't. If you're only using it in front of patients so they'll respect you more because of a title, that sounds a bit pretentious to me.

To each his own I guess. Detailed responses below

1. Pretty sure SDN is referred to as student doctor network not because "student doctor" is all-encompassing, but rather because it links students and doctors. Like a mentee-mentor relationship.

I say student doctor because it avoids having to give an explanation more often. I tell them "I'm student doctor dadaddadaBATMAN, I'll be taking your history and doing a brief physical, then I'll report back to Dr. Penguin and he'll be back in with me to see you." Even if it confuses people, they know I'm not anything but a fledgling. Most people don't really understand what a resident is either. So it doesn't really matter if they think I am one.

2. I have a lot more time to explain crap about med. school to people I know, and I'm a lot more interested in doing so for them. It isn't about patient respect for me, it's about brevity and clarity. I'm someone studying to be a physician.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

If the nurse puts in the work to go to medical school, then what on earth could you have against that?

Hoping that was just a joke that fell flat.

It may have been a joke, but DNPs show up intermittently to tell us that they're doctors too. I could really care less, but I disagree about the appropriateness of that title, especially in a clinical setting.

 

[tdram]

It may have been a joke, but DNPs show up intermittently to tell us that they're doctors too. I could really care less, but I disagree about the appropriateness of that title, especially in a clinical setting.

Yeah, it's totally inappropriate to use in a clinical setting because (regardless of what they say) they're doing it purposely to confuse people. They can call themselves Dr anywhere else but not in the hospital. Most institutions seem to have this policy.

 

[Promethean]

It may have been a joke, but DNPs show up intermittently to tell us that they're doctors too. I could really care less, but I disagree about the appropriateness of that title, especially in a clinical setting.

Again, this is a nurse who is becoming a physician. Why bust on someone who is paying their dues, just because they started out as a nurse? They are going out of their way NOT to do the DNP thing... they are actually earning the title. Seems pretty crappy to hold that against them.

 

[tdram]

Again, this is a nurse who is becoming a physician. Why bust on someone who is paying their dues, just because they started out as a nurse? They are going out of their way NOT to do the DNP thing... they are actually earning the title. Seems pretty crappy to hold that against them.

I don't think he's talking about her.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Again, this is a nurse who is becoming a physician. Why bust on someone who is paying their dues, just because they started out as a nurse? They are going out of their way NOT to do the DNP thing... they are actually earning the title. Seems pretty crappy to hold that against them.

From his/her post history, you are correct. They are planning to attend a DO school, and so are going to become a physician. That's lovely, good for them, cheers, good luck, etc. etc.

What I am saying is that DNPs place similar posts here with relatively high frequency. So if it wasn't a joke, it was understandable.

If it was a joke, I still think it was clever, although maybe not in the best taste. Regardless, this conversation has become both and

 

[Promethean]

I don't think he's talking about her.

Please go back in the thread. Someone was talking about having been a nurse and becoming a physician, so that if someone assumed either thing, they would be correct. It was a tongue in cheek response to the problem of female docs being called nurses.

Psai answered her with: Oh, great, another nurse who wants to be a doctor.

That is a disrespectful response to someone who is actually going to medical school.

EDIT: You can say it is just a joke, but the reason I take issue with it is that if you are going to disrespect nurses who are doing it the "right way," and nurses who are doing it the "wrong way," then basically, you are just saying that you have a problem with nurses, period.

 

[tdram]

Please go back in the thread. Someone was talking about having been a nurse and becoming a physician, so that if someone assumed either thing, they would be correct. It was a tongue in cheek response to the problem of female docs being called nurses.

Psai answered her with: Oh, great, another nurse who wants to be a doctor.

That is a disrespectful response to someone who is actually going to medical school.

EDIT: You can say it is just a joke, but the reason I take issue with it is that if you are going to disrespect nurses who are doing it the "right way," and nurses who are doing it the "wrong way," then basically, you are just saying that you have a problem with nurses, period.

That's true. I respect and applaud nurses that do it the "right way", when it's very easy for them to take a shortcut.

 

[DermViser]

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

 

[DermViser]

Again, this is a nurse who is becoming a physician. Why bust on someone who is paying their dues, just because they started out as a nurse? They are going out of their way NOT to do the DNP thing... they are actually earning the title. Seems pretty crappy to hold that against them.

A nurse who has gone through a DNP education has not "paid her dues" - not by a long shot. Saying that you should be called doctor in a hospital setting is complete deception when patients (educated and otherwise) know that doctor means physician in that setting.

 

[dermaway]

A nurse who has gone through a DNP education has not "paid her dues" - not by a long shot. Saying that you should be called doctor in a hospital setting is complete deception when patients (educated and otherwise) know that doctor means physician in that setting.

How do pharmacists address themselves?

In my experience, the team has always called the PharmD attending by first name while the MD attending by "Dr."

And if pharmacists don't call themselves doctor, lol if a DNP feels entitled to do so

 

[DermViser]

How do pharmacists address themselves?

In my experience, the team has always called the PharmD attending by first name while the MD attending by "Dr."

And if pharmacists don't call themselves doctor, lol if a DNP feels entitled to do so

That's my experience. The DNP is nothing but degree creep, as it definitely doesn't have more clinical hours. The masters was just fine.

 

[RJGOP]

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

I met this nurse while shadowing in undergrad. She would refer to herself as Dr. so and so to the patients. However, I wasn't so surprised. The crazy thing was that even with a physician next to her, she still had the balls to call herself Dr. It just kinda pissed me off and it pissed the other physicians off as well.

 

[Promethean]

A nurse who has gone through a DNP education has not "paid her dues" - not by a long shot. Saying that you should be called doctor in a hospital setting is complete deception when patients (educated and otherwise) know that doctor means physician in that setting.

For ******* sake! The nurse in question is becoming a physician, not a DNP. She IS paying her dues, and still got crap for it. Can no one read the thread?

There ARE nurses that want to be called Dr. without going to medical school. We all agree that is messed up. Psai busted on a nurse who is going to medical school. That is also messed up.

 

[DermViser]

For ******* sake! The nurse in question is becoming a physician, not a DNP. She IS paying her dues, and still got crap for it. Can no one read the thread?

No she isn't.

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

 

[Promethean]

No she isn't.

@Beargryllz is the person who was being discussed. Please, tell me how she isn't going to medical school? She is a DO student. Does that not count as medical school to you, now?

Like I said before, read the thread. Psai quoted Beargryllz when he made an obnoxious comment about how she was yet another nurse daring to call herself a doctor. I think that is messed up, since she is, in fact, going to medical school.

 

[fancymylotus]

How do pharmacists address themselves?

In my experience, the team has always called the PharmD attending by first name while the MD attending by "Dr."

And if pharmacists don't call themselves doctor, lol if a DNP feels entitled to do so

The one farmacist who questioned my math about a tapering dose of prednisone refused to call me doctor over the phone and was referring to me by my first name.

So to be a jackass, I kept calling her DOCTOR ____ every fifteen seconds. Emphasis on the doctor.

This hilarity was going on over speakerphone with my dad and two other drs in the room with us, finally they had enough of her BS I guess and my dad took her off speakerphone, asked her if she had passed third grade math, and hung up.

1 x four times a day x 7 days equals 28, not 112.

 

[dermaway]

@Beargryllz is the person who was being discussed. Please, tell me how she isn't going to medical school? She is a DO student. Does that not count as medical school to you, now?

Like I said before, read the thread. Psai quoted Beargryllz when he made an obnoxious comment about how she was yet another nurse daring to call herself a doctor. I think that is messed up, since she is, in fact, going to medical school.

who cares dude, this discussion extends beyond what that single instance of an NP turned DO is doing. see all the other anecdotes in this topic

 

[BobbyB]

@Beargryllz is the person who was being discussed. Please, tell me how she isn't going to medical school? She is a DO student. Does that not count as medical school to you, now?

Like I said before, read the thread. Psai quoted Beargryllz when he made an obnoxious comment about how she was yet another nurse daring to call herself a doctor. I think that is messed up, since she is, in fact, going to medical school.

need someone to make cliff notes on this drama!

 

[dermaway]

The one farmacist who questioned my math about a tapering dose of prednisone refused to call me doctor over the phone and was referring to me by my first name.

So to be a jackass, I kept calling her DOCTOR ____ every fifteen seconds. Emphasis on the doctor.

This hilarity was going on over speakerphone with my dad and two other drs in the room with us, finally they had enough of her BS I guess and my dad took her off speakerphone, asked her if she had passed third grade math, and hung up.

1 x four times a day x 7 days equals 28, not 112.

to be honest, with both of you being professionals with similar degrees, i think its quite obnoxious to even be upset that you weren't addressed as "doctor"

i've never seen an attending get upset at another attending (IE a peer) for not referring to him/her as doctor

plus, 4x7 doesn't equal 112 in any way so i'm more likely to believe it was a communication error as opposed to an incompetent pharmacist

 

[RJGOP]

The one farmacist who questioned my math about a tapering dose of prednisone refused to call me doctor over the phone and was referring to me by my first name.

So to be a jackass, I kept calling her DOCTOR ____ every fifteen seconds. Emphasis on the doctor.

This hilarity was going on over speakerphone with my dad and two other drs in the room with us, finally they had enough of her BS I guess and my dad took her off speakerphone, asked her if she had passed third grade math, and hung up.

1 x four times a day x 7 days equals 28, not 112.

Why was your dad on the phone?

 

[fancymylotus]

Why was your dad on the phone?

I work for him, it was a patient of all of ours.

 

[fancymylotus]

to be honest, with both of you being professionals with similar degrees, i think its quite obnoxious to even be upset that you weren't addressed as "doctor"

i've never seen an attending get upset at another attending (IE a peer) for not referring to him/her as doctor

plus, 4x7 doesn't equal 112 in any way so i'm more likely to believe it was a communication error as opposed to an incompetent pharmacist

Yeah that's all fantastic but I wrote out the instructions on the rx specifically to avoid the math or communication error issue, and then she wasted a good ten minutes of my time

 

[Promethean]

who cares dude, this discussion extends beyond what that single instance of an NP turned DO is doing. see all the other anecdotes in this topic

I'm just irritated because I said something, which people seemed determined to deliberately misunderstand. Even with clarification, I get back denseness. It is enough to make me think that I am just being trolled.

I think it is important because it shows that some people here are so worked up about the idea of advanced practice nurses that they have a grudge against even those nurses that are clearly NOT trying to usurp the physicians role. There is a knee jerk anti-nurse sentiment on SDN. I feel it deserves to be commented upon.

 

[RJGOP]

I work for him, it was a patient of all of ours.

Do you enjoy working for your dad? That would be kind of uncomfortable to me. That's cool that you do though.

 

[DoctorInASaree]

.

 

[fancymylotus]

Do you enjoy working for your dad? That would be kind of uncomfortable to me. That's cool that you do though.

I do. I'm very lucky. He's a great mentor and boss.

(Also helps that we're at different offices everyday except 1)

 

[dermaway]

This thread just got me into a lot of trouble, so thank you!

I had an argument with my mother who kept talking about a doctor she knows. It turns out the "doctor" is actually a psychologist of some sort. I then got into a twenty minute argument; basically reiterating what most of you have been saying here. Her argument was that the psychologist earned a PhD, and therefore one must address that individual with the prefix Dr. I attempted to convince her with the "respect your physician" argument, but she said "why can't you respect the psychologist?".

Don't worry! I won the day by bringing up my brother who is an actual doctor. Yikes! Some people are incorrigible.

I think its very fair to address your psychologist as "Dr." and very dense of you to argue with your mother about it.

This isn't an issue of only calling those with MDs and DOs "doctor". Its an issue of certain professions calling themselves "doctor" in a setting that is deceiving to the patients.

No one is going to complain about a college professor being referred to as doctor because their role and area of expertise is made very apparent.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

This thread just got me into a lot of trouble, so thank you!

I had an argument with my mother who kept talking about a doctor she knows. It turns out the "doctor" is actually a psychologist of some sort. I then got into a twenty minute argument; basically reiterating what most of you have been saying here. Her argument was that the psychologist earned a PhD, and therefore one must address that individual with the prefix Dr. I attempted to convince her with the "respect your physician" argument, but she said "why can't you respect the psychologist?".

Don't worry! I won the day by bringing up my brother who is an actual doctor. Yikes! Some people are incorrigible.

In an academic and private practice setting I think it is totally appropriate for a Ph.D./Psy.D. psychologist to be called "doctor". Only when their training is being misconstrued for that of a physician is where the problem lies.

Many of my academic colleagues do jest that I'm going to be a "real doctor", though.

 

[tdram]

In an academic and private practice setting I think it is totally appropriate for a Ph.D./Psy.D. psychologist to be called "doctor". Only when their training is being misconstrued for that of a physician is where the problem lies.

Many of my academic colleagues do jest that I'm going to be a "real doctor", though.

The PhD is technically the "real" doctor, because the PhD degree existed before the MD.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I still find it utterly bizarre. I look over my shoulder for my dad every time someone calls me "Dr. VisionaryTics".

That's a sick last name.

 

[touchpause13]

No she isn't.

Yes she is. She's a DO student.

 

[tdram]

The MD might actually be the first example of degree creep, because according to wikipedia (best source, I know), until the late 18th century, you would get a bachelors degree in medicine after completing medical school, and would then have to do research and a thesis like Ph.D. students to get the M.D. Still true in some other countries, I think.

 

[demayette]

I ran into this one lady who actually signs her name Person X, DrNP on notes.

They won't let her put Dr in front of her name, so she found a clever way to squeeze it in there. It's sad the lengths people will go to call themselves Dr.

Because it sounds cool...

 

[demayette]

It may have been a joke, but DNPs show up intermittently to tell us that they're doctors too. I could really care less, but I disagree about the appropriateness of that title, especially in a clinical setting.

They are doctors, but they are NOT physicians... I am not sure how that work in clinical settings... Are they allowed to introduce themselves as doctors?

 

[tdram]

They are doctors, but they are NOT physicians... I am not sure how that work in clinical settings... Are they allowed to introduce themselves as doctors?

Most places don't allow it, but they often do it anyway.

 

[tdram]

Because it sounds cool...

It doesnt sound so cool anymore when everyone's doing it. Nowadays pretty much everybody has a doctorate of some sort, amirite? Everyone's got a ton of letters after their name too...

 

[demayette]

In an academic and private practice setting I think it is totally appropriate for a Ph.D./Psy.D. psychologist to be called "doctor". Only when their training is being misconstrued for that of a physician is where the problem lies.

Many of my academic colleagues do jest that I'm going to be a "real doctor", though.

I have seen Ph.D./Psy.D. psychologists called 'doctor' even by other healthcare professionals in clinical settings...

 

[demayette]

It doesnt sound so cool anymore when everyone's doing it. Nowadays pretty much everybody has a doctorate of some sort, amirite? Everyone's got a ton of letters after their name too...

So you think only MD/DO/DPM/DDS/DMD should be called 'doctor' in clinical settings... cause I have seen OD/Psy.D and Ph.D (psychologists) refer themselves as 'doctors' in clinical settings and I think it's ok...

 

[tdram]

I have seen Ph.D./Psy.D. psychologists called 'doctor' by other healthcare professionals in clinical settings...

Yeah, personally, I'm OK with that because the psychologists aren't trying to confuse people into thinking they're physicians.

 

[Ismet]

It doesnt sound so cool anymore when everyone's doing it. Nowadays pretty much everybody has a doctorate of some sort, amirite? Everyone's got a ton of letters after their name too...

Everyone wears a white coat too it seems. The Spanish interpreter team at the hospital system in my hometown have started wearing white coats, some even wear scrubs. My mom (a 20-year employee on that team) refuses because she thinks it's ridiculous. She has a pretty amazing fund of clinical knowledge from translating for that long, but she's also the first to admit that she is just providing a service and translating, there's no need to attempt to look like a doctor/nurse/whatever because they lack any kind of formal medical education or training.

 

[tdram]

So you think only MD/DO/DPM/DDS/DMD should be called 'doctor' in clinical settings... cause I have seen OD/Psy.D and Ph.D (psychologists) refer themselves as 'doctors' in clinical settings and I think it's ok...

Dentists and psychologists aren't trying to play the roles of physicians. They're doing their own thing which is fine. The problem is when someone uses the title of doctor and then plays the role expected by society of a physician while not having the credentials they expect with it. No one expects their dentist or psychologist to be an MD.

 

[tdram]

Everyone wears a white coat too it seems. The Spanish interpreter team at the hospital system in my hometown have started wearing white coats, some even wear scrubs. My mom (a 20-year employee on that team) refuses because she thinks it's ridiculous. She has a pretty amazing fund of clinical knowledge from translating for that long, but she's also the first to admit that she is just providing a service and translating, there's no need to attempt to look like a doctor/nurse/whatever because they lack any kind of formal medical education or training.

Yeah the white coat has basically become the "uniform" of healthcare. Everyone in the hospital wears one nowadays. I think we should just all stop wearing them because they're an unnecessary hassle and a vector of disease since people don't wash them all that often.