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"slackers"

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by nug, Jun 21, 2002.

  1. nug

    nug Member 10+ Year Member

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    Jun 16, 2002
    Are there ?slackers? in med school? I mean people who goof off, skip class, forget to turn in assignments, party when they should be studying, are huge underachievers, etc. I went to what you could call an ?upper-tier? school for undergrad and I came in thinking that everyone was going to be a ?gunner? who studied like 12 hours a day. When I got to school, I was shocked at the percentage of my classmates who just didn?t care. I would think to myself, ?how in the hell did they get in here?? I was just wondering if med schools have their share of slackers too?
     
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  3. Read "Amt of studying" post and you will see just how many people are complacent with their education! I have the same frame of mind as you, and at my school there are plenty of MONKEYS!
     
  4. Hoo\/er

    Hoo\/er if($profit){replicate();} 10+ Year Member

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    You must remember that there are people out there who can put in a minimal amount of time studying and still excel in school. These peeps have to do something else with their time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

    Hoovah
     
  5. i have a response to that: Bull#$%^

    I'm sure they can easily C's but who wants a doctor like that
     
  6. sanfilippo

    sanfilippo El Gaucho Misterioso 10+ Year Member

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    people subscribing to the "p=md" philosophy runs rampant at my school. some do well, but most are just, as birdman noted, complacent with their mediocre progress. it's just your approach to the whole med school game, though. some work hard, some refuse to; some from both camps end up doing the same academically, ironically enough. -s.
     
  7. Hoo\/er

    Hoo\/er if($profit){replicate();} 10+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by birdman:
    <strong>i have a response to that: Bull#$%^

    I'm sure they can easily C's but who wants a doctor like that</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, not exactly. Although I am not one of these peeps that I'm referring to, I know several people first-hand that are pulling mostly A's and some B's in med school while studying far less than "12 hours per day." IMO, it's about quality vs. quantity. Just because someone can reproduce the same quality of work with 50% less studying than the average classmate doesn't make them an inferior student and certainly will not make them a substandard doc.
     
  8. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats 10+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by birdman:
    <strong>i have a response to that: Bull#$%^

    I'm sure they can easily C's but who wants a doctor like that</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So isn't one of the motto's of this board "It doesn't matter if you have lower grades as long as you REALLY REALLY CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING" ??

    Right? So if someoen really cares but is pulling C's...do we still not want them to be a doctor?

    Play and Work Hard. If you can do both: congrats. I did that throughout college..and plan to keep it up as long as I can in Medical school. People who tell you that you will have to study 12 hours a day and won't do anything for fun are full of $hit....Yes, there are going to be some rough rough weeks / months...but there is still free time.

    I plan to keep a life and go to medical school at the same time.

    It's a shame that some people on this board don't think it can be done. But ya know, most people who think this can't be done didn't have a life to begin with... :rolleyes:
     
  9. yigit

    yigit Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    all around
    I'd rather have a doctor that I can talk to and relate to than one of the chumps in my class who does nothing but study, is always stressed out about school, and not once in their life have tried thinking outside of the box. I don't give a **** if my doctor is good at memorizing facts or not.

    btw - I've lost count of the number of doctors who have told me not to work too hard in medical school.
     
  10. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I got yo' back Scooby :) ... just posted something similar in the other thread on "amt of studying." It is vital to maintain a balanced life during medical school. You can easily burn yourself out with the studying if you're not careful. There is literally more information than you can possibly absorb given the period of time you have. Therefore, you COULD spend every waking moment studying. But who in their right mind would want to live like that? Moreover, there are several opportunities throughout your medical education to review and re-learn information presented.

    Mantra: Balance is the key... balance in all things... :D
     
  11. rubyness

    rubyness Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Keep in mind that a lot of the time when people brag about not studying, they are LYING!! It's very simple!

    Why do they do it? I can't imagine--probably insecurity.

    Even if you think you know a person's schedule or their grades, you probably only know what they want you to know. And if you're an honest person, a lot of times it appears as if they're pulling off a magic act.
     
  12. Acro Yali

    Acro Yali Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Plenty of those fake people in school who tell/act around people as though they don't study at all. So fake that they would actually hide at their secret places so they can study more than the people who are studying at school, only to tell other people that..."I don't study!". No one is medical school can be a slacker. Once in medical school, everyone is compared to everyone else. The big gunners will call the small gunners slackers...but that is not to say there are no slackers in medical shcool.
     
  13. Annette

    Annette gainfully employed Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Nuggco, why do you care? And for all those other people who get upset that the whole medical school class is not entirely made up of "gunners," get a life. What other people do, or how they do it is none of your concern.
     
  14. scootad.

    scootad. Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    DITTO to that! Sure there are people who study less than others in medical school. But there are very few pure "slackers." Most who say they never study are lying. These are the same people you see in small group conference who know every answer to every question and aren't afraid to show it! And they never study....right. There are too many minute details to memorize for one to pass and never study.
     
  15. The point here isn't how much or if people study, it's the ATTITUDE like I said before. The attitude sucks! P=MD or 70=DO is bunch of S$%^. Some people act so casual about the whole medical school process, to the point that they don't care how they are doing as long as they are BALANCED!! ha ha ha!!! I would never recommend any physician with a complacent attitude. I'm not saying that someone with a C is destined to be a bad doctor, actually most of the time it is exactly the opposite. It is the gunners that sometimes have no people skills and are jerks. When I think that I will be responsible for people lives, cliche that may be, I take that seriously, and how much I push myself to be the best I can be will only help my patients.

    The biggest cop-out: THERE IS TOO MUCH INFORMATION, YOU CAN NEVER KNOW IT ALL.
     
  16. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Birdman,
    Your devotion to learning is certainly respected and it is good to know that you take yourself as a very serious student. I think the point that I and others were trying to make was that having balance in medical school is important. This doesn't equate to a cop-out, as you suggest. In fact, I would argue that an environment that focuses on student well-being can lead to enhanced learning. The vast majority of people in my class study very hard and do really well, and yet are able to do other things outside of studying during medical school. There is much more to being a good doctor than knowing factual information described in textbooks. There is the whole art of medicine that relies on interpersonal interactions, empathy, and compassion that textbooks can teach you little about. If you have no yet realized this, then perhaps you will soon. You can be the most technically proficient physician and yet be a horrible clinician if you cannot understand your patients, their needs and concerns.

    I find it interesting, as others have noted, that you seem so concerned about how others perceive their medical school experience. It seems that you find that people who say that want to maintain a balanced lifestyle during medical school are somehow "slackers" and will not make great doctors. Yet, I have not seen one shred of evidence to suggest this. In fact, many medical educators now stress that in order to make more empathic and compassionate physicians, we need to ensure student and physician well-being. While many traditionalists would argue that we are somehow creating generations of new physicians with no backbone, I find this a somewhat antiquated and myopic view that simply isn't aligned with the current times. There certainly is quite a bit of data to support the notion that well-being (not "slacking") is essential for good medicine, enhancing learning, reducing number of physician errors, etc.
     
  17. squeek

    squeek Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    I agree with Vader's post above. While I do not spend 12 hours a day studying, I think I have been able to achieve a solid medical education--one that I feel confident in, and one that my future patients will hopefully appreciate. And all of this in spite of the fact that I don't spend all of my time buried in books.

    As someone else mentioned, it is QUALITY of studying that counts, not quantity. During my first and second years of medical school, I found that I actually did much better in my classes when I was also taking art classes every week. It forced me to make the most of my 1-2 hours of studying a day, rather than twiddling my thumbs for 5 hours and calling it "studying."

    Yes, there are people in my class who continually goof off. But our third year has rolled around, and all of those people have suddenly become very concerned with their education--because now it really means something. So even if you see people goofing off in their 1st and second years, that doesn't mean they don't care.
     
  18. Whisker Barrel Cortex

    Whisker Barrel Cortex 1K Member 10+ Year Member

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    I definitely agree with squeek about the difference between the preclinical years and clinical years. In my first two years I did well, but not excellent. I did not study a whole lot except the week before exams and hated going to lecture (we have a great note-taking service). I was just bored with a lot of the minute details we were given.

    Then came third year. Being in the hospital was a lot more interesting and my patients gave me the impetus I needed to read. I would spend more time in the hospital than most of my classmates and read with much more interest than in the preclinical years. I was one of the few that actually had fun in 3rd year even with the long hours. The whole time, I NEVER wished I had memorized more of the details in my preclinical years. My view was not what birdman says is a cop out about "there is too much information to know it all". It was more "there is a lot of details here that I do not need to know." And, as you will find out in your clinical years, this is definitely true.
     
  19. md03

    md03 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Perhaps there are slackers in the first two years. But, as previous posters have said, it has no bearing you if there are. And people can get C's in the preclinical courses and do fine as doctors. The preclinical years largely consist of memorizing and regurgitaiting a lot of minutia that doesn't need to be recalled immediately in the clincial realm and can be looked up when needed. As one of my attendings said recently, "Life is open book"

    However, I was surprised to see how many slackers there were in the clinical area. These people can inpact you by not doing their share of the work, thus causing more work for others. Granted, they are in the minority, but still there were more than I thought there would be. People who are consistently late (I mean on a daily baisis) can make more work for other students, depending on how your team is run (example, on OB, we weren't assigned particular patients, we were just supposed to work together to make sure all the postpartum patients were seen before the intern got there. One student being late means everyone who was there on time had to see more patients). A student who won't return pages often causes other students to be paged more often to do the work that the disappearing student was to have done.

    However, there are also things that slackers do that only affect themselves. Example: if the slacker doesn't bother to go check CT results, it only affects the slacker, as s/he won't know the results and will look bad when presenting and the attending askes what the results were.

    Again, the slackers are a minority in the clincial years. But you may be amazed at the few and just the exent they will go to in order to avoid a little work. Since being a doctor is about taking care of patients, and taking care of patients often involves some tedious tasks, you have to wonder if they picked the wrong career.
     
  20. Hercules

    Hercules Son of Zeus 10+ Year Member

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    Are there slackers in med school? Oh hell yes! At my school, several of us banded together to form an official group of slackers, A.S.S. (Anti-gunner Social Society). We routinely go out to bars the night before tests, wear black shirts w/ A.S.S. printed in white to our tests, and just have fun in general. None of us study much, and several of us are near the top of the class despite all of the fun we have. The basic science years are full of minutia. You learn some important facts, but there is quite a bit of information that will never contribute to your ability to help your patients, so you might as well have some fun and have a life outside of school.
     
  21. japhy

    japhy Ski Bum 10+ Year Member

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    i think birdman is just trying to make himself feel better because he has no life outside of school and it blows his mind that others actually enjoy what they are doing.

    birdman,
    i love medical school, but you know what there are many other things that come before school. will that make me a worse doctor? maybe acoording to you. i rarely go to class. do i study? of course. as WBC and others have said, it all about quality. i find that if i take the attitude that when i am studying that is all i am doing and when i am playing i dont't think about school then i get a lot done and i am much happier. but whatever, if you think that people have to be all serious all the damn time go for it. but you ae the kids the rest of us make fun of in med school. and you wonder why you never get invited to any of the parties...
     
  22. Never get invited to any parties! Wow, I didn't know we were back in high school. I can see you are the "cool" type. Good luck Monkey
     
  23. Hercules

    Hercules Son of Zeus 10+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by birdman:
    <strong>Never get invited to any parties! Wow, I didn't know we were back in high school. I can see you are the "cool" type. Good luck Monkey</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is that same condescending attitude that will garner you both the respect and admiration of your patients. :rolleyes:
     
  24. Unfortunately Birdman, med school is so much like high school. Look at some of the responses you got. Like that person who actually started a club to show everybody else that he was "too cool" to be thought of as studying hard. He actually thinks him and his group are cool by wearing stupid shirts around school that make a statement, when in reality people are laughing behind his back. He might as well be wearing a black shirt with a big "L" on the front. Med school is a new start for a lot of people and many of them try to develop new images during this time because for their entire life they have not done much but try to get into med school. So once they achieve their goal of getting in, they begin acting out to release all they were holding in beforehand. And in reality, nobody really cares how much you study or don't study...so don't go around expounding your study habits. In fact, nobody cares what you do as long as you pass your exams and not not be a complete screw off on the wards. A lot of infantile stuff goes on in med school (much like high school), but I've found it best to not even pay attention to that stuff and just develop a close network of friends you can trust and party with. And believe me, you won't even see most of your class when 3rd years rolls around and virtually none of them in 4th year when you go around the country to do electives. So the first two years are just something you have to get through and won't mean much at all in the long-run...except for the whole USMLE Part I thing.
     
  25. MSTP boy

    MSTP boy Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by yigit:
    [QB]I don't give a **** if my doctor is good at memorizing facts or not.QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen! But hold on - do you care if your surgeon has memorized anatomy well enough to distinguish the parts of your small intestine? do you care if your pcp has memorized pathology enough to recognize an unusual symptomatic presentation?
     
  26. I agree Mr. Vain. Unfortunatelym, most med students were absolute tools in high school and college. All they wanted to do was get into med school. They were the pathetic losers everyone whose best friend was the biology book. And now they feel like they can have some fun. I have seen this with many people in my school. They were sheltered by their parents and never really had any fun. This is ashame. Unlike you monkeys, I had fun, maybe too much. But I believe now is the time to grow up and be professional, not time to invent yourself into something cool, something you wanted to be your whole life. This unfortunately goes on all the time. Do you wake in the middle of the night with nightmares of your geekness before med school. Its ok, you've made something of yourself now!
     
  27. Oh, and I also do hope that god forbid if you ever need surgery, that your surgeon tried to know as much as possible, took his education seriously, and not focus on BALANCE!
     
  28. jot

    jot

    hotdamn. i don't want to be a doctor anymore. laters.

    -jot
     
  29. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats 10+ Year Member

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    Goddamn you guys are funny.

    Birdman, for your continual berating of the rest of us as losers and geeks who have never lived in the real world, it makes me wonder how you can even say other people are immature and acting like we are in high school when you are acting like the prom queen.

    You are calling us MONKEYS for godsakes! Jeez!! Think about it!!! MONKEYS!!!! Come on dude...grow up a little.

    It's amazing how a little anonymity gives someone an extra nutsack and makes them feel like they can go ramming whoever they please.

    So birdman, what do you consider to be "fun"? You think none of us had any fun...Hell, I didn't have "fun" in high school...I was very focused on school, family, sports, etc. Then in college I was able to expand and party as much as I wanted and I took control and had fun. I don't think there are many people who are still sheltered up until medical school and then decide to break out. I think that's called college... But whatever...we are just monkeys and can't think :rolleyes:
     
  30. SocialistMD

    SocialistMD Resident Objectivist 10+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by birdman:
    <strong>Oh, and I also do hope that god forbid if you ever need surgery, that your surgeon tried to know as much as possible, took his education seriously, and not focus on BALANCE!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have been watching this for a while in sweet amusement, but I now feel compelled to speak. birdman, do you honestly think (a) the physicians you saw your entire life all graduated AOA, (b) surgeons learn all of the anatomy so well in first year that they never look at it again in the 5+ years of residency or even every once in a while after that as a refresher and (c) that the only good physicians are those who sacrifice their social lives to med school? If so, you are in for a rude awakening.

    Good luck with your chosen path. You will need it if you continue the way you have indicated you have chosen.
     
  31. SicVic

    SicVic Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    This thread somehow is stupid and distorted. But interestly - why should we give a crap about so called "slackers" - Is this really important?

    I will understand if there is concern for individuals who have no life outside medical school and always stressed out about school work and never really take a time out to have some time and mind off work etc. (which is usually evident in the 1st and 2nd year).
    The term slackers in this thread is a very relative term with a fexible labelling.

    I'd say you should be worried about yourself when you get to medical school and stop probing into what others are doing - especially with frivilous things such as grades vs. Studying hours.
     
  32. Nanon

    Nanon An urban myth. 10+ Year Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nuggco:
    <strong>Are there ?slackers? in med school? I mean people who goof off, skip class, forget to turn in assignments, party when they should be studying, are huge underachievers, etc. I went to what you could call an ?upper-tier? school for undergrad and I came in thinking that everyone was going to be a ?gunner? who studied like 12 hours a day. When I got to school, I was shocked at the percentage of my classmates who just didn?t care. I would think to myself, ?how in the hell did they get in here?? I was just wondering if med schools have their share of slackers too?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Birdman, I find it very interesting that you know your classmates so well that you can interpret their behavior at school to mean that they're underachievers. They don't go to class everyday? Hmmm... Does that automatically mean that they're recovering from a hangover by watching "Days of Our Lives?" Or could there be other things going on in their lives that you have no clue about - family issues, marriage issues, or other personal issues that also demand attention? Because someone forgets assignments occasionally, that automatically makes them a slacker? I've done that once in a while, usually related to straight up fatigue after going to school for 5 hours, doing research for 4 hours, studying salient stuff for another 4 hours, maybe driving my mom to Dr.'s appointments for 3 hours, housework for 1 hour (if I'm lucky). That's a 14 - 16 hour day, and we haven't even counted the hour I spend watching TV, talking to my husband, and replying to stupid posts like this.

    Some of us have real, adult-like lives that have nothing to do with school, and yet hold us just as accountable. Some of us pay bills, have families (extended and otherwise) that require just as much energy and attention as learning every neurotransmitter in the brain. Some of us don't have a moral choice in the matter when it comes to finding a balance between school and everything else. And maybe if you didn't cast about your judgemental attitude like so much birdseed, your "slacker" classmates wouldn't piss you off so much...

    Nanon
     
  33. Hey I have an idea, let's go ballroom dancing! A typical female response nano, complain, complain, complain!
     
  34. Hercules

    Hercules Son of Zeus 10+ Year Member

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    Mr. Vain--
    I agreed with the second half of what you said. Unfortunately your assessment of me was way off. There is no re-invention going on here. I've been having fun and keeping my priorities straight all throughout my life. I can't say as I've devoted my life to getting here, b/c I didn't decide to go to med school for sure until my junior year. As for the laughter regarding our shirts, there was plenty. Several laughing out loud with us, several at us, and a few tools probably doing it behind our backs. But the point wasn't to earn cool points, so it doesn't really matter. I think gunners dislike people like me because I make light of this whole med school thing and that's all they've got left after sacrificing every other aspect of their life to the mindless memorization of minutia.

    I've given the speech on SDN several times about what a gunner is, so I won't go into a long explanation here again. Suffice it to say that "gunner" is a mentality not a GPA, class-rank, or daily study routine. An "anti-gunner" simply has a grasp on life and realizes that your studies should not engulf your entire life.

    birdman--
    I'm hard pressed to believe that you have had as much fun as you claim. If your personality is as abrasive in person as it is here, I can't see many people wanting to spend much time around you. But I'll try to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are empowered by your anonymity and just acting out of character. So maybe you do have fun after all. If so, don't quit having fun just because you got into med school.
     
  35. DOtobe

    DOtobe 10+ Year Member

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    birdman,
    What's up with your attitude? I resent that you say almost everyone else in our class but you is an underacheiver. I don't study 8 hours a night (try 2-3 for me) and I don't consider myself to be an underachiever. Why are you acting like you are so much better than everyone else?

    I have two words for you...."pontine tumor" :rolleyes:
     
  36. Where does this whole underachiever deal come from? Never said everyone else is an underachiever or claimed that I was better than everyone else. Read a little more carefully. I simply commented on a particular attitude that I seemed to find more prevelant than I had expected. You should really NOT put words in others' mouths. I made a statement, a generality, about how I and many others view SOME, KEY WORD,SOME of our peers attitudes in our own schools and others. People are getting very defensive when I am not pointing a finger at anyone! There is nothing I admire more HERCULES, than a student with a family. I am simply commenting on a general attitude that I have seen.
    There is a difference between doing what you need to do(2-3hrs. of work), managing a family, having fun, and just sliding by with the attitude that you have plenty of chances to relearn information. I hope you can see the difference. I am not criticizing, rather I am just stating a fact. Oh, DoTobe, if you don't UNDERSTAND what I'm saying, then you must be blind. I'm sure you get me, you just got a little defensive, that's OK. Remember this people:

    NOTHING IN THE WORLD CAN TAKE THE PLACE OF PERSISTENCE.

    TALENT WILL NOT
    NOTHING IS MORE COMMON THAN UNSUCCESSFUL MEN/WOMEN WITH TALENT.

    GENIUS WILL NOT
    UNREWARDED GENIUS IS ALMOST A PROVERB.

    EDUCATION ALONE WILL NOT. THE WORLD IS FULL OF EDUCATED DERELICTS.

    PERSISTENCE AND DETERMINATION ALONE ARE OMNIPOTENT
     
  37. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Birdman,
    You're really preaching to the converted here. To get into medical school, by definition you really have to be an overachiever. What you're pointing out is that people often do not show their cards. Why you care what cards they hold and what this upsets you, I have no idea.

    In general, and at least at my medical school, it doesn't impress many people to reveal how much you study. No one cares. In fact, you WILL be labeled a "gunner" if you insist on making it clear to everyone how much you know. Around here, people just accept the fact that pretty much everyone is really smart. You do what you have to in terms of studying on your own private time and talk about OTHER things while together in class and in other social environments. It is NOT that hard work and dedication is not respected--it is that there is no NEED to show off and be competitive with each other.

    Perhaps the environment is different at your school. If this is the case, then I'm glad I'm at a place where people feel comfortable in NOT having to compare their study habits.

    And finally, it may be to your advantage to treat others on this board with a higher degree of respect than you currently accord them. The vast majority of people who post here have worked extremely hard toward their goals.
     
  38. ts2006

    ts2006 Banned Banned

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    Aug 25, 2001
    Birdman,
    Way to stand up to the 'monkeys'. I respect you for defending your profession and pointing out a significant problem in the ATTITUDE of SOME med students. It is so surprising that so many of you are taking offense when his comments aren't aimed at you or your lifestyles. I think I see his point clearly...a lot of students are content with mediocrity and doing only what it takes to pass. Isn't that REALLY surprising? Medical students who will one day be responsible for human lives are just 'getting by'? No one is attacking those who are brilliant and have to study less, those who juggle family and school, nor those who work day and night to only earn Cs. Some of the replies on this thread are unbelievable. What sort of future physician is behind these comments:
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'd rather have a doctor that I can talk to and relate to than one of the chumps in my class who does nothing but study...I don't give a **** if my doctor is good at memorizing facts or not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh really? If I'm having surgery I want the doctor who was the best student, not a bar buddy. I don't know too many who share your opinion. Let's see if that's what you want the next time a family member goes under the knife.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We routinely go out to bars the night before tests, wear black shirts w/ A.S.S. printed in white to our tests, and just have fun in general. None of us study much, and several of us are near the top of the class despite all of the fun we have. The basic science years are full of minutia. You learn some important facts, but there is quite a bit of information that will never contribute to your ability to help your patients, so you might as well have some fun and have a life outside of school. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">None of us study much? You might as well have fun?I don't know what Patch Adams training school you're going to but I think this is considered unprofessional conduct at most schools.
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> but whatever, if you think that people have to be all serious all the damn time go for it. but you ae the kids the rest of us make fun of in med school. and you wonder why you never get invited to any of the parties... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please tell me where you'll be practicing so I can warn the rest of America.

    Individuality doesn't have to be sacrificed. Of course you have to have balance. Does balance mean taking it easy or learning just enough to pass? Taking your profession with the utmost seriousness does not equal compromising your personality. I thought being in med school meant pushing yourself beyond your limits. Someone else posted "why do you care what everyone else does?" Because the profession as a whole suffers and those who 'just got by' make the rest of you look bad with their half-assed work ethic. It affects YOU when 20/20 covers malpractice cases week after week and the public associates you with some incompetent doctors.

    I know this isn't anything new though.....C's get degrees and the person to graduate in last place is still called doctor. These expressions have been around for a long time. Even very good doctors can make mistakes or be crooked. But I, for one, applaud birdman for at least bringing it up! Doctors get fat paychecks, prestige and a lot of trust and respect from the general public. I don't think that would be the case it they knew that there are so many slack-asses in med schools.
     
  39. Thank you TS, THANK YOU!!!!! Thank god someone understands just what I was saying. TS, you expressed exactly what I feel, except better!

    What does everyone think, Should I be a PREACHER.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK DoTobe, you know me soooo well!

    By the way, who are you DoTobe, you seem to know me but I don't know you. Interesting? I don't like stalkers!
     
  40. DOtobe

    DOtobe 10+ Year Member

    2,000
    3
    Dec 12, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Trust me, birdman, I'm not stalking you. I figured out who you were when you posted on the LECOM Class of 2006 forum that you were the one who sent your deposit in before you were even accepted to our class. Everyone in our class knows who you are because of that.

    My name is Stacie, by the way. How's that for anonymity? There's only one Stacie in our class.
     
  41. DOtobe

    DOtobe 10+ Year Member

    2,000
    3
    Dec 12, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Oh, and by the way, I do understand what you mean about some of the people in our class. I just think that you shouldn't give a **** what everyone else is doing and just worry about yourself. You're doing well, fine. Everyone has different priorities. Maybe the others consider 70=DO doing well. That won't make them any less of a doctor. Do you have any idea of the grades your doctor got when he was in medical school? The last time I checked, they don't put that on your degree. There are people in our class who may not be doing as well as others but will be wonderful doctors because they have such great personalities. Good grades don't guarantee that you will be a good doctor.

    I can see you rolling your eyes right now. But eventually you will need to get off your high horse and figure out that we will all be good doctors. I know part of the reason you are acting like such a hard ass is because you are anonymous. Well, I know who you are, as do some of the other people in our class who sometimes post on this forum. I have had no reason to dislike you before, as I have never spoken to you. But are you this high and mighty in real life?
     
  42. jimdo

    jimdo Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    107
    0
    Jul 21, 2001
    I find it amazing that anyone on this board (especially 1st and 2nd years) are arrogant enough to throw themselves in the business of others. I am wrapping up medical school this year and I find your comments childish, immature and frankly pathetic. Why should YOu concern yourself with the business of other? There have been people I have trained with who were what you would call "slackers" and others who were gunners. Tell you the truth, it doesnt matter what others do. It is you job to deal with your work. If it pleases you to study a certain way, fine I wont criticize you. You dont have to agree with how others behave or perform, but the bottom line is that it doesnt matter what you think. You are an underclass medical student at best, so its time you kept your nose to yourself, sat down, shut up and learned your place.

    BYW, I am not one of those you are describing. Thought Id say that to pre-empt any accusations that may fly here. Keep your nose out of others business. Its not your place to judge others, no matter who you think you are.
     
  43. Espion

    Espion is a girl 7+ Year Member

    230
    3
    May 5, 2002
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jimdo:
    <strong>I find it amazing that anyone on this board (especially 1st and 2nd years) are arrogant enough to throw themselves in the business of others. I am wrapping up medical school this year and I find your comments childish, immature and frankly pathetic.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The best thing in this entire thread. You guys are funny. :p
     
  44. Once again DoTobe, you are putting words in my mouth. I am NOT TALKING ABOUT GRADES, WHO CARES ABOUT GRADES. You are obviously not getting it. GRADES WERE NEVER THE ISSUE! Did you even read this whole post???? I'M TALKING ABOUT A CERTAIN ATTITUDE! CAN'T YOU READ. I did not start this post, I simply gave my opinion in it.Isn't that the point, JIMBO! People ask questions and you answer them. What's wrong with stating some aspects of the school environment??? Hey jimbo, if everyone minded their place, this wouldn't be a forum, CORRECT? The idea is to give your opinion, not get defensive. THIS IS A FORUM, RIGHT????? THE POINT OF A FORUM IS TO DISCUSS??? I do not think I am better than any of you, that's ridiculus! Stacie, your's and others famous statement, We will all be great doctors, is so idealistic!!! What about malpractice, dirty doctors, those who get sued because of stupidity. Did you hear about the doctor that just went to jail for overwriting prescriptions of oxycontin??? This just an example, but don't you think someone in his class said: "Were all going to be great doctors!!" It is simply a flawed view. Not everyone is going to be a great doctor just like not everyone will be a great teacher or lawyer. Do you see the reality here?

    Jimbo, is it just me, or are you talking to us like we are in high school and you are a big bad senior. It seems you are trying to pull rank. What do I know, I'm just a "An underclass medical student at best, so its time I keep my nose to myself, sit down, shut up and learned my place." You must be kidding me when you say that. NOT TO BE REPETITIVE, THIS IS A FORUM PEOPLE, ALL OPINIONS ARE WELCOME, and obviuosly It's not just my opinion but DoTobe also sees my point but is getting hung up on the grades issue; ONE MORE TIME: Grades are not the issue, I could care less. It's is the mindframe that some people have.

    "I figured out who you were when you posted on the LECOM Class of 2006 forum that you were the one who sent your deposit in before you were even accepted to our class. Everyone in our class knows who you are because of that." DoTobe, can you clarify this for me? What do you mean by this? How do you feel about me doing this, please, DON'T HOLD BACK!!

    I just want to know why you are all getting so defensive, epescially you Dotobe. You all say you shouldn't care what others do or say, so why care about my opinion?? Maybe you are the person that I'm describing and you feel like you are being criticized? If so, too bad!
     
  45. DOtobe

    DOtobe 10+ Year Member

    2,000
    3
    Dec 12, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I am sick of this conversation. Enjoy the rest of your summer, birdman.

    And by the way, I could care less that you sent your deposit in before you were accepted. It is just a bit odd that you would do that. It took a lot of balls to do that, and believe me, I am not criticizing you for it. Talk about being defensive...
     
  46. It's too bad you don't want to debate anymore. We were just starting to have some fun. Oh well. I do apologize if I offended you in any way. I have strong opinions and I can see how they can push someone's buttons. Have a nice summer, unless we meet up again soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  47. I have stood by and observed this post for a while now and the most appalling aspect of this post is that birdman is in the minority. Birdman may come off a little rough, but everything he has said is valid. I have currently completed my residency in neurosurgery and in these many years I have seen alot of what birdman alludes to.

    You people seem to think that defending yourselves with the statement, it doesn't matter how you do you will all be great doctors, takes away all merit to what birdman is saying. You really need to open your eyes!!! You will be very surprised with the attitudes that some physicians have and how it carries over to their patient care. Complacency is a great way to describe this. You will see this when a doc is paged with a CT result and they are complacent enough to not go in and look at it. This is a simple example of how complacent attitudes can carry over to patient care.

    DoTobe, why do you keeping harping about the issue of grades when that was never the issue. I think it is obvious that you and others have felt that birdman is attacking you when he has clearly not pointed any fingers. This is a definite sign that you may be one of those he alludes to.

    I'm just giving my two cents so don't get all upset people. Birdman is %110 correct when he says this is a forum and it is meant to speak your mind.

    Jimbo, you need to realize that just because you are ready graduate doesn't mean you can pull rank. I want you to know I know who you are and what you did. I'll leave it at that.

    I don't know birdman, so I can only go on what he has said, which is a refreshing, real look at some docs to be. One thing is certain, we need more persistent and determined docs to be without the attitude birdman alludes to.
     
  48. DOtobe

    DOtobe 10+ Year Member

    2,000
    3
    Dec 12, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Okay, I have given up my assault on birdman. I am waving my white flag. I apologize if I read too much into birdman's comments. I surrender. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I was just stating mine as well. I have met my share of idiot doctors, so maybe I am a little idealistic in my thinking that "we will all be good doctors." You will hear no more responses from me on this topic.
     
  49. Spidey

    Spidey Leorl's official stalker 7+ Year Member

    1,271
    0
    Jan 5, 2002
    Canada
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by aprilann13:
    <strong> Birdman may come off a little rough, but everything he has said is valid.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm. I don't get why people care if there are slackers in their class. I could care less how anyone else does that is in my class, unless they are a friend of mine I have no interest.

    Life is short, if you spend it all with your face buried in a book I don't think you're getting the most out of it.
     
  50. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats 10+ Year Member

    3,797
    0
    Jul 9, 2001
    City
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by aprilann13:
    <strong>I have stood by and observed this post for a while now and the most appalling aspect of this post is that birdman is in the minority. Birdman may come off a little rough, but everything he has said is valid. I have currently completed my residency in neurosurgery and in these many years I have seen alot of what birdman alludes to.

    You people seem to think that defending yourselves with the statement, it doesn't matter how you do you will all be great doctors, takes away all merit to what birdman is saying. You really need to open your eyes!!! You will be very surprised with the attitudes that some physicians have and how it carries over to their patient care. Complacency is a great way to describe this. You will see this when a doc is paged with a CT result and they are complacent enough to not go in and look at it. This is a simple example of how complacent attitudes can carry over to patient care.

    DoTobe, why do you keeping harping about the issue of grades when that was never the issue. I think it is obvious that you and others have felt that birdman is attacking you when he has clearly not pointed any fingers. This is a definite sign that you may be one of those he alludes to.

    I'm just giving my two cents so don't get all upset people. Birdman is %110 correct when he says this is a forum and it is meant to speak your mind.

    Jimbo, you need to realize that just because you are ready graduate doesn't mean you can pull rank. I want you to know I know who you are and what you did. I'll leave it at that.

    I don't know birdman, so I can only go on what he has said, which is a refreshing, real look at some docs to be. One thing is certain, we need more persistent and determined docs to be without the attitude birdman alludes to.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you know....Birdman got one of his friends to sign up with SDN and post on his behalf. How cute?!?!

    May we call you Mrs. Birdman?

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  51. jimdo

    jimdo Senior Member 7+ Year Member

    107
    0
    Jul 21, 2001
    AprilAnn,
    I really thin kyou must have me confused with someone else. To the best of my knowledge I have done nothing whuch warrants pointing out here. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me. The last thing I would want is to be mistaken for someone else.
    As for pulling rank, that was really not my attention. And for the record, I agree that hard work is the best policy and is one that I try to do every day. However, it really is not our place to point out the faults (or perceived inadequacies) of those around us. Im sure we all have own own quirks and bad parts of our work ethic or some other area that would be considered annoying to someone. If we all found fault with others then none of us would be immune, even those of us who feel some moral superiority and indignation toward "slackers".
    And for the record, I do realize that this is an area to express opinions. But in the long run, I doubt that this would have much of a bearing on our practice. We tend to wrap ourselves in the slogan "it affects patient care". Ive got news for you, everything affects patient care and this issue is small potatoes in the overall care. I doubt man would be adversely affected by the "slacking" of a doc. One more thing, we have been saying that patients may be affected by slacker doctors while in medical school, but what if a patient comes in and has a problem directly related to some minor detail in Biochemistry you skipped or some area you didnt feel like reading that one day. So unless we are perfect and are able to learn everything, we really dont have the right to judge. I realize its a matter of degrees, and I support learning and working hard, but Id like to see us focusing on more constructive topics that directly relate to us.
     

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