Small Undergrad College, BIG DREAMS!!!

[Coldsweat_06]

This is a question that has been on my mind for quite a few days, so I thought I'd ask this great body of pre-meds my question. Does someone from a small liberal arts college really have that great of a chance to enter into a top 10 Medical School? Here are my stats, tell me honestly if it's possible.

I am a sophomore Bio/Pre-Med major at a small liberal arts college. I maintain a 3.6-3.7 GPA, having taken such courses as Organic Chem. 1 & 2, Biology, Physics, and Gen. Chem. I am highly involved in EC's such as VP of my fraternity, Pres. and Charter Member- National Residence Hall Honorary, Pres. and Charter Member- 100 Black Men, Member of National Society for Collegiate Scholars, Member of AMSA, Member of Beta Beta Beta Biological Honor Society, Member of Greek Council, and the list goes on... I am also an avid volunteer- Big Brothers/Big Sisters, ER, Mobile Healthcare Unit. I work as a lab assistant in the Microbiology, Genetics, and Human A & P laboratories. I have been shadowing since my junior year of high school in the ER and with an Orthopaedic Surgeon. I am presently working on my undergraduate research. Lastly, this summer I will be attending a Summer Program at Yale School of Medicine. Before applying I hope to have completed a Summer Research Program and participated in a Biological Study Abroad Program in Quito, Ecuador. With all of this said and adequate MCAT scores, would I be considered competitive at my top choice medical school, Johns Hopkins, coming from a small liberal arts college? I'm sure people say that you can apply from any undergraduate insitution but in reading the profiles on mdapplicants.com, most of the accepted applicants to such schools as Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Yale, etc. were from the same caliber undergraduate institutions. If I would not be considered competitive, suggestions on ways to increase competitiveness would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Coldsweat_06

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[willthatsall]

Well, your GPA is fine, but nothing special. Everyone has pretty good EC's. Score well on the MCAT and you'll be competitive. Obviously that doesn't mean you will get in, but you'll have a shot. Although, if Hopkins finds out you write on SDN with that gross orange font, they'll probably reject you pre-secondary.

 

[IAMS]

Top 10 schools are really an environment that want numbers numbers numbers. I just met with the assistant dean of Wash U, St. Louis. It seemed all she cares about is a strong MCAT - above 35 - as if that was the only indication of having the best students. So I doubt it matters where you come from, if you want to get in, you gotta produce.

 

[LizzyM]

The possible problem with a small, liberal arts college is the ceiling effect: that you have a 3.7 gpa because there isn't much competition. You may be the top dog in a very small pond to mix a metaphor. The way to overcome this perception is to do very well on the MCAT which puts you up against all comers rather than just the other students in your small school.

Your ECs look good although I'm not familiar with some of them. Focus on those that demonstrated your ability to lead a group or serve the community.

You'll need a good PS that addresses "why medicine". Be able to tell Johns Hopkins what you have to offer and find a way to work it into the secondary.

 

[doc05]

(1) don't use orange font. it's annoying.
(2) member of 100 Black Men?? If you're a URM, your chances are already very good with a 3.6-3.7
(3) It depends which "small liberal arts college" If it's Williams, Amherst, Pomona, or any other well-respected school, you've got nothing to worry about.

good luck.

 

[xCD420]

i would like to echo point #2 of doc's. if you are indeed a URM, with your GPA and a 30+ the schools will be banging on ur door...

 

[Wahoos]

Yo Coldsweat,

Anything is possible. I went to a liberal arts college with a 3.8 overall GPA and 4.0 science GPA. I have similar EC (but not part of the 100 Black Men or the Greek system) and awards as you. I am in the group of "Over Represented Asians" which makes it a little harder to get in vs. I assume that you are in the "Under Represented Minority" which makes it a little easier (I know this is a controversial topic, but I also know for a fact that being in the URM group helps your app...) My MCAT was 9,11,12 and N. The only difference was that I was recruited by my school to play tennis for them. Did 4 yrs of varsity tennis (NCAA Div I), was Captain for one yr, and represented my school at the NCAA Leadership Conference. Also was the big VP of the Student Athlete committee on campus. I really think that my tennis/sports background helped me alot with getting into medical school. Every interviewer asked me about tennis, sports, and how I liked being a part of the "team". After I graduated, I did 1 year of research at Duke with a genetics project of sequencing a fungus called Cryptococcus neoformans , while applying to medical school. (I took the MCAT after college in August and applied late). Applied to about 10 schools, all in the top 25 (7/10 was in the top 10). Got offered 4 interviews and was accepted to U of Michigan (#7 or 8) and U of Virginia (#25). Decided on UVA because I thought they were a better fit for me. Will be graduating from UVA in 1 week, walking the famous LAWN, and moving to the New England area for an Orthopedics Surgery residency!!!!!!

Now looking back at the process, one thing I have learned is that sometimes when the things that felt very important at the time, might not be so important. For example, I was really pissed at the 9 in Verbal and thought that would have kept me out of a good school, but it did not. I had a 3.3 average the 1st year of college with a couple of Cs and a few Bs, (went to too many parties and had a few too many drinks) was told that getting C's will keep you out of medical school . My premed advisor was a phD in Microbiology, when I told him that I was interested to apply to med school, he said "I don't know how to get into med school! But why don't you apply to a phD program instead". And my college was a 2nd tier regional, "liberal" arts college, not a "liberal" arts college like Williams or Amherst, etc, that is on par with the other little places like Harvard and Yale. When I asked the chairman of the biology dept in my school "what are the chances of me getting into a top 25 medical school out of state?" His response was basically "I can't really remember sending a student to a top 25 medical school." (He was going to retire in a couple of years from our school after 20 odd years).

So my advice, don't ever let anyone tell you that you are not good enough to get into medical school or that your MCATs are too low or your C in Organic Chem is going to keep you out, etc. Just work hard in everything that you do in life, don't sweat the small stuff, look at the big picture, and never ever give up on trying to get into medical school!!!!!!!! (if that is what you "really" want to do with your life, for the right reasons, or reasons that you feel that is "right" for you). I know a person who didn't get in on 3 tries, but was accepted on the 4th attempt, now graduated and doing a residency in internal med at a very good academic program. There is no magic formula for getting into a top 10 or 25 school. You have to have the basics, GPA, MCAT, Medical volunteer experience, Strong Letters (Go for someone who knows you well and not a famous name, a personable letter goes a long ways), Awards, etc. The things that will seperate you from the rest of the group is like varsity athletics, PEACE corp, a career change (we interviewed a 35 year old woman that had her MBA from Wharton, vice pres. of a large corp, make a good 6 figure salary, but decided to do medical school because she could not get up every morning anymore, just for money), doing things/projects in 3rd world countries, graduating from a top undergrad (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. Alot of top 10 Med schools like to keep their own undergrads or Ivy leaguers), Masters/PhD degree, meaningful leadership positions (It is better to be in one group for many years than to be in many groups for one year), etc, etc. Also I think going to a smaller college and being the big fish can help you more than going to a very good college and just being average. Oh one more thing, if you post messages in Orange Font, then you are definitely seperating your self from the rest of the group. I kinda like looking at the orange color... but very annoying to read it.

Believe it or not, when you ask a professor to write you a Letter, he will most likely have to write many letters like yours. A lot of times, these professors have a backbone letter typed up and just throw your name in the blanks. This will hurt your app. Alot of times, there is only a few words that are different in these letters and these few words is what seperate you from your classmate who had the same letter writer as you. So choose carefully who you want to have to write these letters. These are some of the things off the top of my head, PM me if you have any questions.

Best of Luck to Everyone!!!!

 

[patsfan2]

/

 

[guoboy]

This is a question that has been on my mind for quite a few days, so I thought I'd ask this great body of pre-meds my question. Does someone from a small liberal arts college really have that great of a chance to enter into a top 10 Medical School? Here are my stats, tell me honestly if it's possible.

I am a sophomore Bio/Pre-Med major at a small liberal arts college. I maintain a 3.6-3.7 GPA, having taken such courses as Organic Chem. 1 & 2, Biology, Physics, and Gen. Chem. I am highly involved in EC's such as VP of my fraternity, Pres. and Charter Member- National Residence Hall Honorary, Pres. and Charter Member- 100 Black Men, Member of National Society for Collegiate Scholars, Member of AMSA, Member of Beta Beta Beta Biological Honor Society, Member of Greek Council, and the list goes on... I am also an avid volunteer- Big Brothers/Big Sisters, ER, Mobile Healthcare Unit. I work as a lab assistant in the Microbiology, Genetics, and Human A & P laboratories. I have been shadowing since my junior year of high school in the ER and with an Orthopaedic Surgeon. I am presently working on my undergraduate research. Lastly, this summer I will be attending a Summer Program at Yale School of Medicine. Before applying I hope to have completed a Summer Research Program and participated in a Biological Study Abroad Program in Quito, Ecuador. With all of this said and adequate MCAT scores, would I be considered competitive at my top choice medical school, Johns Hopkins, coming from a small liberal arts college? I'm sure people say that you can apply from any undergraduate insitution but in reading the profiles on mdapplicants.com, most of the accepted applicants to such schools as Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Yale, etc. were from the same caliber undergraduate institutions. If I would not be considered competitive, suggestions on ways to increase competitiveness would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Coldsweat_06

Hey Coldsweat, I think you are doing an amazing job in both academically and socially. I am very confident that you will be just as competitive as some of the best students from ivy- league schools. Afterall, you went to a school where teaching is emphasized. Your professors really know you well and can write you a personal kickass letters of recommendation. Those are all in your favor.

Currently, I am a senior at Williams College, which is a very small school. Not too many admission offices have heard of it. But despite of that, I got into great schools.

So keep on doing great things. You will go far!

Actually, I don't agree with some of the above posts.

I think people coming out from small liberal arts colleges are just as competitive as those who went to Ivy leaguers. The reason why Williams, Amherst, or other schools are not as well represented among any medical school is NOT that we are less competent, but rather because there's less of us applying. That is to say, some of the larger Ivy league schools have much more pre-med applying each year. But, if you add up all the students from Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Wellseley, that are accepted into top 10 schools, you will easily find that, we are just as competitive as Harvard and Yale graduates.

 

[stifler]

The possible problem with a small, liberal arts college is the ceiling effect: that you have a 3.7 gpa because there isn't much competition. You may be the top dog in a very small pond to mix a metaphor. The way to overcome this perception is to do very well on the MCAT which puts you up against all comers rather than just the other students in your small school.

Your ECs look good although I'm not familiar with some of them. Focus on those that demonstrated your ability to lead a group or serve the community.

You'll need a good PS that addresses "why medicine". Be able to tell Johns Hopkins what you have to offer and find a way to work it into the secondary.

i think its annoying when people think there is not as much competition in small liberal arts colleges. i attend a respectable one and there is so much competition to succeed here that i cant imagine any other large school would be any different. the size and the fact you know everyone just makes it much more competitive.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Big dreams are good....

Orange font is bad

Rock the MCAT!

 

[willthatsall]

i think its annoying when people think there is not as much competition in small liberal arts colleges. i attend a respectable one and there is so much competition to succeed here that i cant imagine any other large school would be any different. the size and the fact you know everyone just makes it much more competitive.

I go to a fairly small liberal arts college, and I think it's respectable (something like top 5-10 regionally in USNews). But it's definitely a small pond. I suspect there is a huge difference between the competition here and the competition at a great public school or an Ivy, Duke, and those types of schools. But I'm fine with being a big fish in a small pond. You make the best of your situation. Would it be better to be the top student at an Ivy? Yeah. But it could be worse, too. I could be a mediocre student in a small pond and then I would have nothing. At least if you are at the top of a small school, you have proven there is a chance you could be a top student at a major school. So you really have to prove your value in other ways (MCAT, EC's, ect.).

 

[SaginawPremed]

Hey Coldsweat, I think you are doing an amazing job in both academically and socially. I am very confident that you will be just as competitive as some of the best students from ivy- league schools. Afterall, you went to a school where teaching is emphasized. Your professors really know you well and can write you a personal kickass letters of recommendation. Those are all in your favor.

Currently, I am a senior at Williams College, which is a very small school. Not too many admission offices have heard of it. But despite of that, I got into great schools.

So keep on doing great things. You will go far!

Actually, I don't agree with some of the above posts.

I think people coming out from small liberal arts colleges are just as competitive as those who went to Ivy leaguers. The reason why Williams, Amherst, or other schools are not as well represented among any medical school is NOT that we are less competent, but rather because there's less of us applying. That is to say, some of the larger Ivy league schools have much more pre-med applying each year. But, if you add up all the students from Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Wellseley, that are accepted into top 10 schools, you will easily find that, we are just as competitive as Harvard and Yale graduates.

Because Williams is just off the radar and totally unknown to people in academia....

 

[MJB]

I'll take my private LA education at a school of 1000 over the big state schools pretty much anytime...

 

[LizzyM]

Williams --- we have faculty who did their undergrad at Williams! Ditto Swarthmore, Amherst, etc.

What I thought about with this question was the other further down the food chain of small, liberal arts colleges. Some have an average SAT of <1000, many of these would have a very small number of students who would be in the pool of pre-med applicants. How does one assess a gpa of 3.7 or even 4.0 when it might be assumed that there was very little classroom competition. ("The best student I've had in 30 years of teaching" has a different meaning coming from a faculty member at one of these schools than it does from someone on the faculty at one of the top liberal arts schools where many of the students are outstanding.)

Not to say that someone can't get in from a small school that doesn't have much of a track record in producing medical student matriculants but a rocking MCAT certainly helps demonstrate that the applicant from Smallville can compete with the big boys.

 

[swman]

This is a question that has been on my mind for quite a few days, so I thought I'd ask this great body of pre-meds my question. Does someone from a small liberal arts college really have that great of a chance to enter into a top 10 Medical School? Here are my stats, tell me honestly if it's possible.

I am a sophomore Bio/Pre-Med major at a small liberal arts college. I maintain a 3.6-3.7 GPA, having taken such courses as Organic Chem. 1 & 2, Biology, Physics, and Gen. Chem. I am highly involved in EC's such as VP of my fraternity, Pres. and Charter Member- National Residence Hall Honorary, Pres. and Charter Member- 100 Black Men, Member of National Society for Collegiate Scholars, Member of AMSA, Member of Beta Beta Beta Biological Honor Society, Member of Greek Council, and the list goes on... I am also an avid volunteer- Big Brothers/Big Sisters, ER, Mobile Healthcare Unit. I work as a lab assistant in the Microbiology, Genetics, and Human A & P laboratories. I have been shadowing since my junior year of high school in the ER and with an Orthopaedic Surgeon. I am presently working on my undergraduate research. Lastly, this summer I will be attending a Summer Program at Yale School of Medicine. Before applying I hope to have completed a Summer Research Program and participated in a Biological Study Abroad Program in Quito, Ecuador. With all of this said and adequate MCAT scores, would I be considered competitive at my top choice medical school, Johns Hopkins, coming from a small liberal arts college? I'm sure people say that you can apply from any undergraduate insitution but in reading the profiles on mdapplicants.com, most of the accepted applicants to such schools as Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Yale, etc. were from the same caliber undergraduate institutions. If I would not be considered competitive, suggestions on ways to increase competitiveness would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Coldsweat_06

Score a 35+ on your MCAT and you will get into any school you want.

 

[LizzyM]

Score a 35+ on your MCAT and you will get into any school you want.

I agree completely given the OPs gpa, etc.

 

[ZephyrX]

Because Williams is just off the radar and totally unknown to people in academia....

LOL! I found that funny also!

 

[Scrub MD]

I would look at the ratio of kids at your school getting into medical school and those appying. If it is like 8 for 9, they probably prepare kids well.

 

[A.D.O.R.]

I wouldn't sweat the small, liberal arts school vs. Ivy or near Ivy comparison. Your grades and your plans seem great. As a black female, I will tell you that the fact that you are a black male will help in the medical school acceptance game. (Assuming the schools you're interested in still have AA. The UCs don't.) How much will it help? I can't say. If you want specific advice for getting into Hopkins SOM, Yale SOM, etc., you should contact their SNMA members and hear what they have to say about your chances at this time and what you should do during the next year and a half to make yourself more competitive. Good luck.

 

[45408]

hmmm, you sure you got enough EC's going on there?

 

[willthatsall]

hmmm, you sure you got enough EC's going on there?

Yeah, the Ivy's get 25 spots for activities and EC's on the AMCAS, but all us mere mortals are only allowed 15. So you are probably going to need to cut that list, unfortunately.

 

[dr.z]

I know many students from my undergrad school who went onto top 10 schools. I attended small liberal arts college too. I think your chances will be dependent on your MCAT scores.

 

[gary5]

GPA 3.6-3.7 is a little above average for accepted students (ave is 3.5). So, to get into a stellar school, your MCATs would have to be stellar, like 36-40. Apply to 3 levels of school - high, medium, low. Then you know you'll get into the best school you can.