SMP Midwestern University-AZ beneficial?

[SwimmingSurg20]

Hey guys,

So here's my concerns. I have recently been accepted to the Special Masters Program (SMP) for Midwestern University in Arizona. My undergraduate cumulative GPA is 3.42 and my science GPA is a 3.74. I have taken the MCAT twice. The first time was horrible and the second time wasn't that great either but an improvement...don't judge (PS7/VR4/BS6 = 17N to a PS10/VR6/BS6 = 22N). I will be attending Midwestern's program in the fall 2012. What I'm trying to understand is if this program will benefit me, GPA wise. Also, do I need to finish out the 9 month program and then apply to medical schools (meaning that I would have to wait until the next round and apply for the 2014 year) or, if I retake the exam before some MD cut offs this Nov.- Dec., can I apply to some decent schools (such as UT southwestern, U of Miami, and U of Nebraska) for the 2013 year?

Any advice would help!

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[DrMidlife]

About 45,000 people apply for about 20,000 MD seats per year. The ~25,000 applicants who don't get in have pretty good stats. In other words, a med school seat is extremely difficult to get.

The average accepted applicant has a 3.6+ GPA and a 31+ MCAT.

The med schools you're listing have powerful instate bias. Don't apply to public schools in other states when you have below average stats, or you're throwing away money. Miami isn't public, but it has enough state support that it might as well be public.

You can't use an SMP to get around the MCAT requirement, not for MD schools. There are some 2 year DO masters programs that have a low MCAT requirement (about a 24, I think), which won't make you retake the MCAT, but this only applies at the DO school hosting the masters program.

No masters program actually guarantees MD admission, ever, anywhere. You can't buy your way in.

You won't get good results if you apply close to a deadline, not in med school admissions. Applying after June is unfortunate. Applying after July is painful. Applying after August is a waste of money. The best results occur when you apply as close as possible to the first day the app is open (June 1 or so). When you have any problems on your app, you need every advantage you can get (such as applying early).

If your goal is an MD program, then a program at a DO school isn't a good choice.

Getting 10 more points on the MCAT is what you need to do, but this may not be possible. This is an unfortunate fact - not everybody can do standardized exams. The MCAT is just the beginning of a long, painful string of hours-long standardized exams throughout med school and residency and practice, so it's absolutely mandatory to take the MCAT seriously as a measure of your ability to do well in med school and beyond.

And getting 10 more points on the MCAT is a ton of work. Taking more college classes is extremely expensive, inefficient MCAT prep. MCAT prep isn't learning or relearning content. If you haven't already done rigorous prep, stop taking the MCAT until you can take it seriously. You are showing med schools that you need at least 3 tries to do well on the MCAT - this is not a luxury you get with exams in med school.

I do not think you are making a good choice in doing the Midwestern program. I suggest you should focus on doing everything you can to get 10 more points on the MCAT, while working to make money, and volunteering in a clinical setting.

Best of luck to you.

 

[TriagePreMed]

The short answer is that if you don't hit, at the minimum, a 30, your chances for any MD college are bleak, SMP or no SMP. You already have 2 strikes against you.

 

[SwimmingSurg20]

About 45,000 people apply for about 20,000 MD seats per year. The ~25,000 applicants who don't get in have pretty good stats. In other words, a med school seat is extremely difficult to get.

The average accepted applicant has a 3.6+ GPA and a 31+ MCAT.

The med schools you're listing have powerful instate bias. Don't apply to public schools in other states when you have below average stats, or you're throwing away money. Miami isn't public, but it has enough state support that it might as well be public.

You can't use an SMP to get around the MCAT requirement, not for MD schools. There are some 2 year DO masters programs that have a low MCAT requirement (about a 24, I think), which won't make you retake the MCAT, but this only applies at the DO school hosting the masters program.

No masters program actually guarantees MD admission, ever, anywhere. You can't buy your way in.

You won't get good results if you apply close to a deadline, not in med school admissions. Applying after June is unfortunate. Applying after July is painful. Applying after August is a waste of money. The best results occur when you apply as close as possible to the first day the app is open (June 1 or so). When you have any problems on your app, you need every advantage you can get (such as applying early).

If your goal is an MD program, then a program at a DO school isn't a good choice.

Getting 10 more points on the MCAT is what you need to do, but this may not be possible. This is an unfortunate fact - not everybody can do standardized exams. The MCAT is just the beginning of a long, painful string of hours-long standardized exams throughout med school and residency and practice, so it's absolutely mandatory to take the MCAT seriously as a measure of your ability to do well in med school and beyond.

And getting 10 more points on the MCAT is a ton of work. Taking more college classes is extremely expensive, inefficient MCAT prep. MCAT prep isn't learning or relearning content. If you haven't already done rigorous prep, stop taking the MCAT until you can take it seriously. You are showing med schools that you need at least 3 tries to do well on the MCAT - this is not a luxury you get with exams in med school.

I do not think you are making a good choice in doing the Midwestern program. I suggest you should focus on doing everything you can to get 10 more points on the MCAT, while working to make money, and volunteering in a clinical setting.

Best of luck to you.

I appreciate the advice but don't tell me I haven't tried hard. You have no idea how much work I have put into all of this. The reason my GPA is so low is because I started my freshman year with a 2.6. I also didn't start my chemistry major until my sophomore year. I had to get a 3.7 and higher for the remaining semesters to even get it to a 3.4. The thing I don't understand is that my practice MCAT scores average about 27. I don't understand how I drop that low on the real thing but I do.

I do want to get this straight though. Are you telling me that doing this accelerated masters program is not beneficial towards my resume whatsoever? Or are you saying that MD schools won't take it that seriously? Wouldn't taking a year off look worse then showing dedication and persistence to stay in school and gain more knowledge? And by the way, I'm not trying to buy my way into anything. Financially I'm not doing that well right now. Watch the words you use when giving others a helping hand.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I appreciate the advice but don't tell me I haven't tried hard. You have no idea how much work I have put into all of this. The reason my GPA is so low is because I started my freshman year with a 2.6. I also didn't start my chemistry major until my sophomore year. I had to get a 3.7 and higher for the remaining semesters to even get it to a 3.4. The thing I don't understand is that my practice MCAT scores average about 27. I don't understand how I drop that low on the real thing but I do.

I do want to get this straight though. Are you telling me that doing this accelerated masters program is not beneficial towards my resume whatsoever? Or are you saying that MD schools won't take it that seriously? Wouldn't taking a year off look worse then showing dedication and persistence to stay in school and gain more knowledge? And by the way, I'm not trying to buy my way into anything. Financially I'm not doing that well right now. Watch the words you use when giving others a helping hand.

Traditional masters programs generally don't hold as much weight due to grade inflation, but SMP programs do. Now, does an SMP program from an Osteopathic school hold as much weight for an MD institution? Arguably, no. It seems that MD institutions expect an MD SMP due to their familiarity with these programs, while DO SMP programs are basically made to help DO candidates. If you want to go into an Osteopathic program, it will certainly help you.

Taking a year off and doing nothing is bad, but will your idea of a DO SMP help you toward your intended goal (MD) the way you wish it to? The answer is no. You're better served doing post-bacc work and doing some lab work or volunteering.

 

[DrMidlife]

don't tell me I haven't tried hard.

I didn't.

The reason my GPA is so low

I didn't question your GPA.

Watch the words you use when giving others a helping hand.

I used a whole lot of "if" "might" "some" "may" or "suggest" - I find it interesting when these go right by unnoticed.

In all other cases I said subjectively true things - I find it interesting when statements of fact are taken as allegations.

I also find it interesting when factual statements, suggestions of possibilities, and rhetorical questions, on anonymous internet forums, make some seekers of advice say "hmm, maybe that applies to me, maybe not, what might the point of this be, how can I use this info in my situation?" and make others say "I'm being attacked!!!"

Now: your practice exam scores don't predict your actual exam scores. What might be going on there? What do you think is going on, and how are you going to fix it?

Now: other than the Midwestern program, which will cost you a great deal of money and time that you can't get back, what else could you do with the next year that would be a worthwhile use of time? Why is a year working on the MCAT, working at a job, and volunteering in a clinical setting a "year off"?

Best of luck to you.

 

[SwimmingSurg20]

Now: your practice exam scores don't predict your actual exam scores. What might be going on there? What do you think is going on, and how are you going to fix it?

Now: other than the Midwestern program, which will cost you a great deal of money and time that you can't get back, what else could you do with the next year that would be a worthwhile use of time? Why is a year working on the MCAT, working at a job, and volunteering in a clinical setting a "year off"?

First of all, it's hard to tell your tone of voice through text. In all honesty, society has conditioned me to believe that DO is something of less respect. If both doctors were equally respected, I would choose DO, no doubt. So let's switch this conversation around. With my current numbers, would you say that going to Midwestern University will almost guarantee my acceptance to it's affiliate, Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine?

 

[LUCPM]

Midwestern AZ had the following class profiles last year (2015):

Avg cGPA: 3.51
Avg sGPA:3.46
Avg MCAT: 28

Not trying to sound discouraging but nothing is guaranteed in med school application and you will most likely need to improve your MCAT score. Good luck.

 

[SwimmingSurg20]

About 45,000 people apply for about 20,000 MD seats per year. The ~25,000 applicants who don't get in have pretty good stats. In other words, a med school seat is extremely difficult to get.

The average accepted applicant has a 3.6+ GPA and a 31+ MCAT.

The med schools you're listing have powerful instate bias. Don't apply to public schools in other states when you have below average stats, or you're throwing away money. Miami isn't public, but it has enough state support that it might as well be public.

You can't use an SMP to get around the MCAT requirement, not for MD schools. There are some 2 year DO masters programs that have a low MCAT requirement (about a 24, I think), which won't make you retake the MCAT, but this only applies at the DO school hosting the masters program.

No masters program actually guarantees MD admission, ever, anywhere. You can't buy your way in.

You won't get good results if you apply close to a deadline, not in med school admissions. Applying after June is unfortunate. Applying after July is painful. Applying after August is a waste of money. The best results occur when you apply as close as possible to the first day the app is open (June 1 or so). When you have any problems on your app, you need every advantage you can get (such as applying early).

If your goal is an MD program, then a program at a DO school isn't a good choice.

Getting 10 more points on the MCAT is what you need to do, but this may not be possible. This is an unfortunate fact - not everybody can do standardized exams. The MCAT is just the beginning of a long, painful string of hours-long standardized exams throughout med school and residency and practice, so it's absolutely mandatory to take the MCAT seriously as a measure of your ability to do well in med school and beyond.

And getting 10 more points on the MCAT is a ton of work. Taking more college classes is extremely expensive, inefficient MCAT prep. MCAT prep isn't learning or relearning content. If you haven't already done rigorous prep, stop taking the MCAT until you can take it seriously. You are showing med schools that you need at least 3 tries to do well on the MCAT - this is not a luxury you get with exams in med school.

I do not think you are making a good choice in doing the Midwestern program. I suggest you should focus on doing everything you can to get 10 more points on the MCAT, while working to make money, and volunteering in a clinical setting.

Best of luck to you.

Midwestern AZ had the following class profiles last year (2015):

Avg cGPA: 3.51
Avg sGPA:3.46
Avg MCAT: 28

Not trying to sound discouraging but nothing is guaranteed in med school application and you will most likely need to improve your MCAT score. Good luck.

Well thank you guys! I have already made my decision on not doing the Midwestern program after talking to a doctor that I know and a couple pre-med advisors. Thanks again for the help! I apologize for insinuating things that you didn't even say or mean DrMidlife.