sneaky advice for premeds

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Let this be a thread of sneaky advice to follow (that seems to be cropping up in "get into med school" books everywhere)

1. Take easy science classes (at my school, nutrition and astronomy) to boost your BCPM GPA.

** Disclaimer: Posters on this thread did not necessarily do these things. In fact, most advice is learned from experience, the hard way. Think "hindsight = 20/20." **
 
I know I get a little disgusted when I read about sneaky stuff, but if I had known about it when I was planning my classes and planning for med school I probably would have done it too. So help out, because if anyone deserves an unfair advantage, it's SDNers 🙂

~Alison
 
You may be able to sneak those into your BCMP but they really shouldn't count. Engineering and advance physics don't count, they should be under medical courses which is a different category....
 
•••quote:•••You may be able to sneak those into your BCMP but they really shouldn't count. Engineering and advance physics don't count, they should be under medical courses which is a different category.... ••••Why wouldn't advanced physics classes count? that doesn't make any sense.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by TechMan:
• •••quote:•••You may be able to sneak those into your BCMP but they really shouldn't count. Engineering and advance physics don't count, they should be under medical courses which is a different category.... ••••Why wouldn't advanced physics classes count? that doesn't make any sense.•••••I don't think you are right. All of my advanced Physics classes counted towards my sciencs GPA.
 
2. Choose the people you work for by assessing how good their letters of recommendation will be. Learning is important, but for admissions, communicating your experience is the highest priority. You do that several ways: PS, interview, and LOR!
 
3. Certain professors are harder/easier/nicer/scarier than others. Definitely talk to upperclassmen when signing up for classes. I had a nightmare professor for O-chem. He hated premeds and told me so in office hours. Upperclassmen can tell you tons about professors, so you can plan who to take a course from.

Also, if you go to a really tough university, consider taking a pre-req or two at an easier institution. Med schools don't like you to take pre-reqs at a community college, but maybe your state school, if you're home for summer break or something.
 
not really sneaky, but something helpful.

take whatever gen ed requirements you can during the summer. most people will be doing research anyway, so taking a few hours of what would normally be a fluff semester course isn't too much of an addition. the benefit is you can then take a smaller class load over the fall and spring semesters. not only that but i found that summer courses were both more enjoyable and easier than their regular semester counterparts.

not a big deal, but something that i found useful.

take it easy

homonculus
 
Next tip...take tons of Honors Psych classes! For me, they were SUPER easy and I used one of my professors who loved me for a science LOR instead of my obnoxious Orgo professor <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> .
 
When you first start out, always take the easiest class possible. Med schools don't know/don't care that advanced calculus III was offered in addition to regular calculs III, and an A in the regular Calc class looks much better then an B+ in the advanced calc class. Avoid classes with the words "honors" or "advanced" in them for the first 3 yrs, just take the basics and the pre-med reqs. If you have a strong enough GPA by your junior year, feel free to challenge yourself then by taking more difficult classes. Just don't overwhelm yourself. By the time that you finish college, good classes to have under your belt for med school are biochem, cell bio, and any anatomy or physiology courses that your school offers.
 
is anyone else a little disgusted with this thread? one reason i initially decided not to apply to med school is due to all the competition and all the sneaky stuff like this. hopefully med schools will be able to see through it so that the hardest workers/most intelligent people get in. it is a little annoying that i'm competing with people who did these sneaky things! i got a's in my pre-med reqs, but it's advanced science courses that brought my science gpa down. hopefully med schools will notice this rather than take candidates who got b's in pre-med requirements and a's in nutrition and astronomy.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by lola:
•is anyone else a little disgusted with this thread? one reason i initially decided not to apply to med school is due to all the competition and all the sneaky stuff like this. hopefully med schools will be able to see through it so that the hardest workers/most intelligent people get in. it is a little annoying that i'm competing with people who did these sneaky things! i got a's in my pre-med reqs, but it's advanced science courses that brought my science gpa down. hopefully med schools will notice this rather than take candidates who got b's in pre-med requirements and a's in nutrition and astronomy.•••••Yes. Unfortunately, many people want the easy, less painless, if not most convenient, way. They want to take advantage of any, if not all, possible shortcuts. It is no wonder why there are so many problems in our country -- ranging from poor math/science performance to breaches in national security.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by lola:
•is anyone else a little disgusted with this thread? one reason i initially decided not to apply to med school is due to all the competition and all the sneaky stuff like this. hopefully med schools will be able to see through it so that the hardest workers/most intelligent people get in. it is a little annoying that i'm competing with people who did these sneaky things! i got a's in my pre-med reqs, but it's advanced science courses that brought my science gpa down. hopefully med schools will notice this rather than take candidates who got b's in pre-med requirements and a's in nutrition and astronomy.•••••Part of being "intelligent" is recognizing your limitations and coming up with a strategy to achieve your goals. I actually took some really difficult, advanced bio courses during undergrad too, but not everyone can do that but it doesn't mean that they won't be able to succeed in med school.
 
Life is not always about taking the biggest challenge head on... sometimes it is about using the brain to sneak out of hardships. Don't cheat, but then again, if you're not beating the "system" a little, then you probably are not trying.

No one will give you a chance to take advantage of the system. So why not take advantage of it in the rare cases when you actually get a chance?

No offense to any hard-working moralistic people here.
 
I don't really have anything against those who decide to take the easier courses for the sake of a higher GPA- when it comes right down to it, numbers and A's matter A LOT, and your kidding yourself if you don't think that's true. Sure you can get into med school with lower numbers, but it's often at a cost, whether it's enrolling in an expensive post bacc program or whatever.

However, for me the sad thing about this thread is that I think that it shows how premeds can often get caught up in the game of searching for classes that will give them higher grades and not necessarily any intellectual satisfaction. I remember when i started college i was looking forward to all the cool courses i could take, where i could learn about subjects that really fired me up. Unfortunately, as the whole premed thing got more and more stressful, instead of taking those classes, i started looking for the classes that would give me something to numerically balance out that not-so-hot grade from the semester before.
In the end, the choice is yours when it comes to your coursework, and if you don't regret those decisions then more power to ya 🙂
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Flack Pinku:
•Life is not always about taking the biggest challenge head on... sometimes it is about using the brain to sneak out of hardships. Don't cheat, but then again, if you're not beating the "system" a little, then you probably are not trying.

No one will give you a chance to take advantage of the system. So why not take advantage of it in the rare cases when you actually get a chance?

No offense to any hard-working moralistic people here.•••••why not you ask? Because of morals and values and all those things that you obviously haven't thought about....when you "sneak" around the system you put yourself up for a better position, however, due to limited space you WILL be taking a seat away from someone else...so ask yourself which is better for society?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by TechMan:
• •••quote:•••You may be able to sneak those into your BCMP but they really shouldn't count. Engineering and advance physics don't count, they should be under medical courses which is a different category.... ••••Why wouldn't advanced physics classes count? that doesn't make any sense.•••••funny I would have agreed with you but they [AMCAS]decide fluid flow and dynamics was an engineering class that doesnt count...also pharmacology doesn't count in BPMC, once amcas might pen hits your application the only thing you can do is protest and hold it up for another 8 weeks....not the best option in the world...I don't know who goes through and changes them but it is overall a rediculous process.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm glad to see there are a lot of honest people on SDN 🙂

I just started this thread because some people use these tactics to get into med school. You can either play the game, or not. I didn't; I did everything exactly OPPOSITE. I took advanced O-chem because I thought I'd learn more. I did, but I got a C. Meanwhile, some of my classmates took the class at Sacramento State and got an easy "A" (which looks a LOT better than my C).

Ultimately, I respect the students who take the classes they are interested in, and don't obsess about GPA, much more than the ones who "play the game." However, I am not on the med school adcom. All they know until the interview is what shows up on your transcript. As long as you're taking the pre-reqs, you might as well take them wisely.

To me, the situation is kind of like merging off of the freeway. You can either get in line like everyone else, or you can zoom ahead and merge at the last moment. The ones in line think, "What an a**hole!" But in the end, the guy who cuts gets off the freeway first.

Just a thought.

~Alison
 
Something I heard was useful: Take your classes off-track.

Not sure about other schools but UCLA usually offers the same classes every quarter. So instead of taking the first O-chem class fall quarter of your 2nd year, take it the winter quarter. You avoid alot of the freak-gunner-die-hard premeds that way.

Granted you need to adjust your schedule a litte bit. I didn't do this (damn me) but a friend who did found it noticeably helpful.

As for the morals question, I don't think this is such "sneaky" advice. It's everybody's perogative to take whatever classes they want. To me, not taking the hardcore-GPA-dropping-honors classes because you have no interest in them is a perfectly valid reason. If you are genuinely interested in those classes, by all means take them. But college is alot more than premed requirements, there's nothing wrong with trying to cut down on class time to do other interesting things.
 
•••quote:•••quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TechMan:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may be able to sneak those into your BCMP but they really shouldn't count. Engineering and advance physics don't count, they should be under medical courses which is a different category....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why wouldn't advanced physics classes count? that doesn't make any sense.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

funny I would have agreed with you but they [AMCAS]decide fluid flow and dynamics was an engineering class that doesnt count...also pharmacology doesn't count in BPMC, once amcas might pen hits your application the only thing you can do is protest and hold it up for another 8 weeks....not the best option in the world...I don't know who goes through and changes them but it is overall a rediculous process.
••••I don't doubt you that the engineering class you mentioned won't count, however, advanced physics classes offered by the school of physics should count. ie, quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics, atomic physics... there is no way they can say those are not physics classes.
 
I think everyone should study what they are interested in, if that is advanced physics, go for it, and if that is Theatre, then go for it. I think that if you study what you love, you will do well. Worrying about getting into med school when you are 18 is a waste of time and stress. Though I'm a post-bacc, so I guess we all probably feel that way.
 
if you want to laugh at other people struggling, :wink: (just kidding) here are a few pointers:

*Past Tests*

start thinking about what classes you're going to take freshmen year, and getting copies of old tests early. For example, if you start saving biochem tests freshmen year, you should have 4+ years of tests by the time you take it senior year, and the class will be a breeze. Make friends with upper classmen in fraternities or sororities, they can hook you up.

*Professors*

Don't take a class just all the other gunners are taking it. If you had a professor and did well in their class, try to take another class from them..you will know what to expect, make a nice LOR, and chances are you'll do well again. Wait a year to take the MCAT (ie take it april senior year) because you will have covered much more material. go and do things with your professors, like have lunch, go running, etc. just so they can know you better.

*Advisors*

Choose your advisor well. This sounds easy, because pretty much all professors will be your advisor, and are smart. But look at the professor's track record with other students. Will this be a professor who will be asking questions during your senior thesis, or will they be defending questions for you? What kind of relations does this professor have outside of their university, or even their department?
Are they on influential academic committees? the premed committee? steering committees? Do they have lots of friends, or do they have lots of enemies?

hope this helps 🙂
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Bikini Princess:

*Past Tests*

start thinking about what classes you're going to take freshmen year, and getting copies of old tests early. For example, if you start saving biochem tests freshmen year, you should have 4+ years of tests by the time you take it senior year, and the class will be a breeze. Make friends with upper classmen in fraternities or sororities, they can hook you up.[/QB]••••I cannot emphasize this enough. Past tests help you breeze through tough classes. Having copies of old exams saved my butt on numerous occasions. :wink:
 
The admissions process isn't perfect either, so if you really want to get into the good schools, then it's about how hard you try and what you do to get there. You can't expect them to separate the goats from the sheep . . . I mean, a C in Orgo might have been the hardest thing you've ever worked for in one university, and it's the easiest A anyone's ever gotten at at another, but there's no way they can gauge that--or you, for that matter, since you've never taken at university such-and-such either (though in my experience, no matter where you take it, it's a slap in the face). You can't blame someone for taking the legitimate shortcuts (i.e., easy classes), cause they're trying the best to look as good as possible for the adcoms. I mean, it's not like cheating or anything . . . where what you get is not your own effort. They got the *A* in that class, so good for them. Perhaps they end up going to the university of their dreams, and you go to some podunk school in the middle of nowhere. It really doesn't matter. In the medical profession, (ideally) we're in the business of saving and improving lives, and you can do that with a Harvard education, or someplace-no-one's-ever-heard-of education. You do the best with what you're dealt, and live a life you're proud of, then be happy.
 
I don't know where all of you went to school, but getting past tests was TOTALLY discouraged/unethical at my school, and I don't know of hardly anyone who did it. I had a copy of an old calc test once, and felt incredibly guilty for using it. (Incidentally, I did worse on that test than on the other tests when I didn't have an old exam.) Maybe I just wasn't aware, but I had no idea people actually went to such great lengths to cheat the system. I mean, sure, I took the regular physics rather than the physics with calc. But this was simply because I don't like physics and didn't want to spend loads of time deriving fancy equations, not because I was thinking about my BCPM GPA. I didn't even know what the BCPM GPA was!
Some of this advice is great and it's important to use your common sense. I also think it's important not to get too caught up in the whole pre-med thing. Take the courses you want to take, do the extracurriculars you want to do, and don't waste your energy trying to cheat the system. In my opinion, you will be more likely to get recommenders who will highly recommend you this way.
As for those people who pass everyone and merge at the last minute on the freeway, I CAN'T STAND THAT!!! I think that is so incredibly rude. C'mon people... think of other people sometimes, not just yourselves.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by lola:
•I don't know where all of you went to school, but getting past tests was TOTALLY discouraged/unethical at my school, and I don't know of hardly anyone who did it. I had a copy of an old calc test once, and felt incredibly guilty for using it. (Incidentally, I did worse on that test than on the other tests when I didn't have an old exam.)•••••Are you for real? You felt guilty for looking at past exams? Why? It wasn't like it was the exact copy of the exam you were going to take. I just used it to give me an idea of the type of questions that the professor was going to ask. Nothing unethical about that.
 
It was not allowed. People in the year ahead generally did not share exams with you. And I believe professors asked you not to look at old exams.
 
Lola, out of curiousity, what undergrad did you attend?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by CANES2006:
•Lola, out of curiousity, what undergrad did you attend?•••••[edited: I apologize for this comment]one where the professors use the same tests year after year I bet.

At most universities, professors give out past exams as study material. Nothing unethical about that. If the professors were decent test writers, they wouldn't have to worry about past tests.
 
i went to vassar -- not what i would call a "whack" school. no matter how well the prof writes an exam, exams are bound to have some similarities from year to year. i don't think profs reused exam questions, but a prof is likely to test on similar topics from year to year. it's fine if the profs actually give out past exams and study guides (at vassar we got study guides sometimes), but at some schools it's not cool to seek out past exams from other students and look at them.
 
My profs at UCSD provide the old exams on their websites. It's a TRULY lazy prof who reuses exam questions and a very poor administration that allows them to! Geeze. There certainly should be no ethical problems in looking at old tests as new tests should NOT have similiar questions. And as far as my advice, avoid "honors" classes like the plague. They won't help you in admissions. Do something more intellectually fulfilling and helpful to your app like clinical volunteer work or research.
 
At Upenn, the school actually has an official academic services department that files old exams and puts them in a catalog. You get to go anytime to request old exams... I think they do it in part to get professors to stop being lazy and to think up new questions to their exams. In any case, even if you did have an old exam, you'd still have to study to know how to answer the questions. I don't consider it cheating at all.
 
I see nothing wrong with looking at past exams. My O-chem teacher actually had a collection of her old tests in her "test bank" online... that's what she called it, and she encouraged students to use it. 🙂
 
i think it just all depends. in pretty much all my classes except the ones for bioengineering, i can use old tests. but in bioe, they specifically ask for us not to look at the old tests. just ask the professor, and you'll be fine.
 
lola, I'm with you all the way. Undergraduate education should be about education, not just a long formality before med school, which, no matter one defends his or her position, is what comes across if you spend four years just trying to "work the system." There's nothing wrong with trying to get good grades or stack the cards in your favor, but I really question how invested somebody is in *actually* learning if they choose to take the easiest course rather than the more challenging courses just for the slight bump in GPA. Just my thoughts.
 
Whenever I get an old exam, I keep it stashed away until I am almost finished studying. I use it to gauge my knowledge, and when I miss some questions I go back and restudy that information. I don't think that's sneaky at all.
 
Forgot to add--I think that looking at old exams is probably okay (usually), but I don't understand those who have their undergraduate courses completely laid out their first semester, enough that they know that they'll be taking such and such a course in such and such a semester. Maybe it was just where I went to school, but I thought shopping period was fantastic-a bit frustrating yes, but it was wonderful to consider all the ways I could spend opening my mind more each semester.
 
Just thought I'd post this excerpt from the UCSF admission bulletin:

•••quote:••• Academic Performance
Academic excellence is one way in which students may demonstrate a high degree of motivation and capability for the medical profession. The difficulty of the course of study selected and the number of units attempted are considered. Students should not select courses only for the purpose of raising grade-point averages. In general, applicants who have failed to achieve a 3.20 grade-point average* are not considered favorably for admission. Academic performance, however, is evaluated in relation to applicants' backgrounds with the aim of determining the influence of external factors on this parameter.
Therefore, nontraditional applicants should not be discouraged from applying.

Taken from <a href="http://www.som.ucsf.edu/som/education/admission/bulletin.pdf" target="_blank">UCSF Admission Bulletin </a>
••••
 
It is agreed that taking classes just for a boost in the GPA is not ideal. It is further agreed that doing things merely to get into medical school is not the best way of doing things in all situations.

I would however like to relieve some criticism with an example:

Suppose one is premed, yet also loves mathematics. Suppose this premed is also a very poor mathematician. This premed loves what he/she is doing, but can only manage to pull a C- in every math course. Further suppose this person is really set on being a doctor.

Surely, only a fool would advise this person to continue taking courses in math. You see, it's not about pursuing the ideal undergraduate experience, nor is it to naively "follow your heart." Wise students know that getting accepted to medical school has elements of strategic planning, as well as sacrifices. So you sacrifice a math major, or majoring in engineering. You still achieve your ultimate goal, do you not? And is not that the important thing?

Now I haven't seen anyone suggest anyone lie, cheat, or steal in order to get into medical school, and that is not what I advise either. I and several others have merely stated what adcoms look for, and what one should keep in mind as to what sacrifices/strategies to consider.

Let's not be so quick to judge.
 
I believe your reply was prompted by my post, so I am sorry if you believe I am judging anyone. I just wanted to point out what this adcom states.

As for the pre-med who loves math (or any other subject in which he doesn't do superbly), good for him. Why not continue to take those courses with the stress alleviated by taking them p/f?
 
actually it wasn't directed at anyone in particular. 🙂

for the math major... continuing with the example... because adcoms don't want to see 10 p/f courses, and b/c you can't graduate with 10 p/f courses in your major (at a respectable university).
 
Read the thread on connections...
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by lola:
•is anyone else a little disgusted with this thread? one reason i initially decided not to apply to med school is due to all the competition and all the sneaky stuff like this. hopefully med schools will be able to see through it so that the hardest workers/most intelligent people get in. it is a little annoying that i'm competing with people who did these sneaky things! i got a's in my pre-med reqs, but it's advanced science courses that brought my science gpa down. hopefully med schools will notice this rather than take candidates who got b's in pre-med requirements and a's in nutrition and astronomy.•••••I think there is a distinction between "sneaky" and good,HONEST,sound advice.If you have ever picked up a book about medschool and 'how to get there',is the information they are offering you "sneaky"?For instance,taking the classes out of sequence,what was "sneaky" about that? Maybe there is a fine line between what one would and would not do to get into medschool.For me personally,I have to feel right morally before making drastic decisions.I have no intention after this long,tiring journey to sit up in medical school and wonder if I deserve to be there because I have "shucked,jived,and double-talked" my way in!!Besides that,how many times have you read on this website alone that the ADCOMs have a way of weeding out people who are trying to be something that they are not?I hope that is true,because that could only help me in the end.
I agree with you on hard-working,but intelligence is relative. Example: My sister once told me,"You are one smart kid." I replied ,"Smart? Do you know how hard I have to work to get these grades?" ( OK so I could never take a compliment and shut up 😀 ).She just smiled and said,"Good,then you are smart enough to know you have to study!"
Sneak if you may,but in any process this tedious,those who "get around" the system eventually get caught,sooner or later,whether its the admissions process or all the way up to residency.I am not disgusted by this thread.Perhaps the title might have been a little misleading.It does seem as if we are being asked to give "shady" suggestions instead of good,sound advice for pre-meds.But I do not think-the shady part- that was Allicat's intention,right Alli? 🙂
 
I just put "sneaky" because it sounds sexier. I figured more fledgling premeds would read it this way 🙂

But yes, the info isn't supposed to be shady. It's more doing things wisely. I mean, not many people would take classes out of schedule, pick easy profs, and join labs to get a good rec letter purely by chance. These are all things you can do to on purpose to engineer a good application.

Thanks everyone for the input... hopefully some freshman will see this and get cracking!

~Alison
 
Reading SDN and finding out info you wouldn't otherwise know sounds pretty sneaky to me! :wink: <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />
 
I can understand why everyone tries to take every advantage they can get. High stats is the name of the game.
 
Who cares if it's sneaky. Just get as many As as you can get. It could only really help. If you feel "guilty" of taking easy courses, take a more challenging course.
 
"sneaky" was probably a misleading word to use in the title. But Alli's right, more people will probably read it that way.

There are two kinds of sneaky. There's sneaky, as in, smart enough about the system to avoid its pitfalls on the road to your goal, and make that road as smooth as possible without breaking any rules. And then there's sneaky, as in, how to break the rules without getting *caught* doing so. I'm certain Alli meant the former.

For instance, at my school, if the teacher allowed old tests to be taken out of the classroom, they were fair game for future semesters' students to use. If the instructor planned to reuse questions from the test, the tests had to be turned in with the answer sheets, and the graded exams were available only for review in the department office. The answers were not posted, and the student could not leave the office with the exam.

You'd think that this would be pretty foolproof, but not so. One of our student organizations would assign each of its members a question and answer number to memorize on each test. Afterward, they would recreate the exam from the memorized questions and answers and make these available to subsequent members taking the class. Now that's cheating.

Taking an easier version of a class is fine, if you know the subject is difficult for you. If the easier version counts, then the med schools obviously think it covers the necessary material in the appropriate depth. The same applies to courses taken in the summer, or at a local college. If such a class counts at your school for the class that satisfies a med school requirement, then it's fair game as an option. Learning who the good professors are is another completely legitimate strategy. Difficult concepts can be made easy by a professor who teaches well, and the resulting A's are not from easy grading, but rather because the students have learned the concept thoroughly.

I think it's sad to avoid a subject you love because you fear a low grade in the class will decrease your chances of admission to medical school. But if you can make your life easier by avoiding things you neither want nor need to do, it's irrational to do anything else.
 
Originally posted by gobruins
Something I heard was useful: Take your classes off-track.

Not sure about other schools but UCLA usually offers the same classes every quarter. So instead of taking the first O-chem class fall quarter of your 2nd year, take it the winter quarter. You avoid alot of the freak-gunner-die-hard premeds that way.
Click to expand...

I find this to be impossible. EVERY premed class at UCLA had freak gunners. Taking the classes out of order won't help because there will always be freak gunners who had to take them out of order too. I don't remember ever taking a premed or science class at UCLA without freak gunner premeds, off track or on.
 
AARRGGHH!!!...WHat the heck is up with all these old threads being bumped?
 
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