So can we talk money?

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How much money are you making (or would make assuming you worked full-time)

  • $400k/year or more

    Votes: 26 16.4%
  • $300,000 to $399,000

    Votes: 27 17.0%
  • $250,000 to $299,000

    Votes: 27 17.0%
  • $200,000 to $249,000

    Votes: 44 27.7%
  • $150,000 to $199,000

    Votes: 20 12.6%
  • Less than $150k/year

    Votes: 15 9.4%

  • Total voters
    159
Colorado has state income tax right? I mean 450k in Denver sounds too good to be true!

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Notice that it says "proven income", not "salary". This means that someone there works enough hours with mostly follow-ups so that the RVU bonus is quite high.

This could actually be a low paying job based on the little data provided.

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Notice that it says "proven income", not "salary". This means that someone there works enough hours with mostly follow-ups so that the RVU bonus is quite high.

This could actually be a low paying job based on the little data provided.
Yeah but super low COL and no state income tax...even if the pay ends up being 375k...

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Wonder what the base is, wonder what the pay per RVU is, wonder how many RVUs the doc had to generate to hit $453K.
 
This is why I chose Chicago suburbia, big city at my fingertips, fair cost of living, good schools, and pleasant Midwestern people. I say this as a nyc guy.


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This is why I chose Chicago suburbia, big city at my fingertips, fair cost of living, good schools, and pleasant Midwestern people. I say this as a nyc guy.


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But terrible winters and middle of nowhere. If I want cold winters, I might as well stay connected on the I-95 corridor.

I'll take 100K less in Cali.
 
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Chicago is the middle of nowhere?

Yeah the cities that are close to Chicago aren't the most desirable (Minneapolis/Detroit/Indy/Milwaukee).

I know I'm gonna get burned for saying this. Personally I'd rather be close to Boston/D.C/Philly/NYC.
 
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Someone living on welfare in the United States is in the top 20% of global earners, but that doesn't make them any less hungry.

So basically that even the 90-95th percentile of Californians in major cities just manage to get by? Just looking to assess the price of the weather, scenery and cosmopolitan life.
 
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yeah maybe. but if they are advertising 450K, im assuming you should be able to generate maybe not that amount, but at least 300k....

You can generate 300-400k anywhere that doesn't restrict your hours.

The job says nothing about hours, volume, call intensity, patient mix, etc that it took to reach the number stated. I'm not trying to argue as it may be a great job.

I'm merely trying to point out that marketers/recruiters generate these flyers in a way that produces the most call backs.

A job in Dallas was offering $460k possibilities. M-F 8-5 was 200k. 48 hr weekend call shifts in-house paid 5k. They struggled to find people willing to agree to weekend calls, so you could be given them all if you volunteer. That is $460k combined and very achievable at 1 location if you are fine with the hours.
 
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But terrible winters and middle of nowhere. If I want cold winters, I might as well stay connected on the I-95 corridor.

I'll take 100K less in Cali.

Yeah the cities that are close to Chicago aren't the most desirable (Minneapolis/Detroit/Indy/Milwaukee).

I know I'm gonna get burned for saying this. Personally I'd rather be close to Boston/D.C/Philly/NYC.
I'm from Philly, and there are things I miss about it, but I'm also not a left-leaning SWPL* who thinks everyone from outside the Boston-Washington corridor or SF are racist rednecks, so I also don't get the extreme desire to live in a place like that at all costs. I'd be perfectly happy in Minneapolis/Detroit/Indy/Milwaukee. Well, I don't know about Detroit.

You don't have to take 100K less in Cali if you're willing to live away from the big cities. I could have made $450k in the Central Valley. But I guess if you find Minneapolis or Indy undesirable, that is out of the question.

You can generate 300-400k anywhere that doesn't restrict your hours.

The job says nothing about hours, volume, call intensity, patient mix, etc that it took to reach the number stated. I'm not trying to argue as it may be a great job.

I'm merely trying to point out that marketers/recruiters generate these flyers in a way that produces the most call backs.

A job in Dallas was offering $460k possibilities. M-F 8-5 was 200k. 48 hr weekend call shifts in-house paid 5k. They struggled to find people willing to agree to weekend calls, so you could be given them all if you volunteer. That is $460k combined and very achievable at 1 location if you are fine with the hours.
Isn't Dallas considered a desirable city? I could never tolerate such hours, though. At the aforementioned job in CA's Central Valley, I would have had to round every other weekend to reach $450k. I can't imagine even the workaholic types could tolerate working every weekend year round, though. How could you not go out of your mind?

*And yet I just signed a lease on an apartment within walking distance of a Trader Joe's. Go figure.
 
Called in a bit for more info: Routed to a different guy: one job is in Pueblo, Colorado. Any flexible mix of inpatient vs. outpatient. 1 hour initial 30 min f/u. Base outpatient $270k base, plus $5 per RVU above 4000, i..e all in comp ~$300k. Will call back for the original Mountain West job.
 
Also, I've seen a couple job ads in California offering ridiculous sign-on bonuses of around $150k, presumably to help with the cost of a house. I believe they were in Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz. I imagine it would be a very long contract.
 
Also, I've seen a couple job ads in California offering ridiculous sign-on bonuses of around $150k, presumably to help with the cost of a house. I believe they were in Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz. I imagine it would be a very long contract.

Was probably a Kaiser sign on bonus. Forgiven over 7 years. Base is $275k a year, + year end bonus + benefits. One of the best decisions I've ever made. Not bad for 4x10s.

Also for the record, California COL isn't all that bad. It really depends on where you live. If you're in and around San Francisco or with in the Silicon Valley immediate area (like @Messerschmitts), then yes it's high because the tech compensation is through the roof.

I personally wouldn't live anywhere else.

I'd consider Miami or San Diego if the majority of mine + my wife's family didn't live in Northern California and if the vast majority of the patients in those areas spoke English.
 
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Yeah the cities that are close to Chicago aren't the most desirable (Minneapolis/Detroit/Indy/Milwaukee).

I know I'm gonna get burned for saying this. Personally I'd rather be close to Boston/D.C/Philly/NYC.

Wouldn't burn anyone for saying that, but the point of living in Chicago is not to just meander to those nearby cities. Chicago is already massive @ the 3rd largest city in the country and has all the culture any of those cities offers except NYC and I guess the museums of DC. We have the beaches/boats when its warm, which is basically the exact same amount of time that the East coast gets (winters are very comparable and have been much more mild than say Boston in the past few years). What the nearby areas do offer is really nice country/rural retreats just outside the city. I can get to Michigan fruit wineries, camping/state parks, Lake Genova, or Wisconsin Dells all within about 3 hour drive. The craft beer of WI/MI is fantastic too. I'm just glad people dislike the midwest, keeps the price of living reasonable :)
 
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Was probably a Kaiser sign on bonus. Forgiven over 7 years. Base is $275k a year, + year end bonus + benefits. One of the best decisions I've ever made. Not bad for 4x10s.

Also for the record, California COL isn't all that bad. It really depends on where you live. If you're in and around San Francisco or with in the Silicon Valley immediate area (like @Messerschmitts), then yes it's high because the tech compensation is through the roof.

I personally wouldn't live anywhere else.

I'd consider Miami or San Diego if the majority of mine + my wife's family didn't live in Northern California and if the vast majority of the patients in those areas spoke English.
Now you've caught my eye.

Is this 275k in Bay Area or more like Sactown/Fresno?

Also does Kaiser let you do PP on the side?

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california has a law banning restrictive convenants so no one can stop you doing private practice on the side

So 275K Kaiser Cali vs. 300k Pueblo, Colorado...

What am I missing, apart from COL being >>> in Cali....
 
Kaiser


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Wouldn't burn anyone for saying that, but the point of living in Chicago is not to just meander to those nearby cities. Chicago is already massive @ the 3rd largest city in the country and has all the culture any of those cities offers except NYC and I guess the museums of DC. We have the beaches/boats when its warm, which is basically the exact same amount of time that the East coast gets (winters are very comparable and have been much more mild than say Boston in the past few years). What the nearby areas do offer is really nice country/rural retreats just outside the city. I can get to Michigan fruit wineries, camping/state parks, Lake Genova, or Wisconsin Dells all within about 3 hour drive. The craft beer of WI/MI is fantastic too. I'm just glad people dislike the midwest, keeps the price of living reasonable :)
That's right folks...move along, nothing to see here in Flyover Land.
Just head on back to your crowded, expensive coastal cities and your stinking humid, sinking South...if you hurry you might be in time for your next earthquake or hurricane.

No, really--you wouldn't like it here at all.
:whistle:
 
That's right folks...move along, nothing to see here in Flyover Land.
Just head on back to your crowded, expensive coastal cities and your stinking humid, sinking South...if you hurry you might be in time for your next earthquake or hurricane.

No, really--you wouldn't like it here at all.
:whistle:

You're just convincing yourself that you're not miserable living in the middle of nowhere. In a big city with museums, restaurants, parks. But it's the middle of nowhere. Like Chicago.

OK, getting back to money. I'm talking to one of those huge HMOs, and their pay scale seems very locked in (like you get x salary for this level which then increases to x next salary for next level + a signing bonus which is prorated for staying 2 years + x amount for call). Any wiggle room for negotiating at all with them or not?

Other tales from job looking -- talked to a private hospital where the psychiatrists all opt for pay by volume (straight fee per patient regardless of whether pt is new admit or not). Based on how many patients some of these doctors are seeing a day, they should be making close to $400k/year. And they all have other clinics on the side. I guess this is where the big money makers in psychiatry are.
 
That's right folks...move along, nothing to see here in Flyover Land.
Just head on back to your crowded, expensive coastal cities and your stinking humid, sinking South...if you hurry you might be in time for your next earthquake or hurricane.

No, really--you wouldn't like it here at all.
:whistle:

Wasn't the last major earthquake in Cali , LA 1994?

I'll take an earthquake every 25 years over annual sub zero winters!
 
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Wouldn't burn anyone for saying that, but the point of living in Chicago is not to just meander to those nearby cities. Chicago is already massive @ the 3rd largest city in the country and has all the culture any of those cities offers except NYC and I guess the museums of DC. We have the beaches/boats when its warm, which is basically the exact same amount of time that the East coast gets (winters are very comparable and have been much more mild than say Boston in the past few years). What the nearby areas do offer is really nice country/rural retreats just outside the city. I can get to Michigan fruit wineries, camping/state parks, Lake Genova, or Wisconsin Dells all within about 3 hour drive. The craft beer of WI/MI is fantastic too. I'm just glad people dislike the midwest, keeps the price of living reasonable :)

Yeah but I get bored easily. I need variety in life. One of the reasons actually why I chose psych.

I would get bored of a city after awhile, there are so many cubs games you can go to. I like the northeast in that there is so much to choose from within 4 hour driving radius. Spend a weekend having clam chowder and catching a game at Fenway, or head to Baltimore and check out the aquarium, etc.

I don't want to be confined to 1 city.
 
california has a law banning restrictive convenants so no one can stop you doing private practice on the side

So you can make 275k + benefits in LA/SF x 4 days a week, and do PP on the side? Meaning you could easily hit 350k.

This sounds like the dream gig...unless I'm missing something?
 
And your taxes will be sky high compared to other parts of the country.
That's fine. As long as I have my 100 sushi restaurants to choose from

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Oh I'm sure it was and I hope it never happens again. But my point was that ppl always comment on earthquakes in Cali, but they are relatively infrequent (compared to Miami getting pounded yearly with hurricanes).

But yeah I hope cali never sees another quake.

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Oh I'm sure it was and I hope it never happens again. But my point was that ppl always comment on earthquakes in Cali, but they are relatively infrequent (compared to Miami getting pounded yearly with hurricanes).

But yeah I hope cali never sees another quake.

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Did Miami have a hurricane last year?
 
I just reached out to the recruiter for the "$430k Mountain West Psychiatry" opportunity. ~300k base. 35k signon bonus. RVU 3 tiers payment, top revenue generators are 7000-8000 RVUs would translate to ~ 430k --- that's a LOT (of RVUs, not salary).

Here's the kicker--the job is in Rapid City, SD
 
I just reached out to the recruiter for the "$430k Mountain West Psychiatry" opportunity. ~300k base. 35k signon bonus. RVU 3 tiers payment, top revenue generators are 7000-8000 RVUs would translate to ~ 430k --- that's a LOT (of RVUs, not salary).

Here's the kicker--the job is in Rapid City, SD

We've actually had two faculty leave to go to Billings, Montana in the last year. They must be doing something right up there...
 
We've actually had two faculty leave to go to Billings, Montana in the last year. They must be doing something right up there...
A women from my residency class went there and is loving it. If you're not attached to where you are and don't mind the cold, her facebook pictures do make it look nice.
 
A women from my residency class went there and is loving it. If you're not attached to where you are and don't mind the cold, her facebook pictures do make it look nice.

Billings doesn't look like a particularly pretty place in Montana. I could see Missoula, Bozeman or Helena, but Billings doesn't sound too appealing.
 
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Billings doesn't look like a particularly pretty place in Montana. I could see Missoula, Bozeman or Helena, but Billings doesn't sound too appealing.
I don't know much about the city itself, but from what I've seen the entire state just looks pretty - big skies and all that
 
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I find it a bit amusing to look at the love for Billings v. Rapid City. I personally think they are a lot alike. In Rapid City, you are essentially surrounded by the the Black Hills, which are basically the environment around Billings, though with Billings probably with fewer trees and being more open praire. Obviously Billings is a couple of hours away from some larger ski resorts, whereas Rapid City isn't. Billings is a bit larger of a city, as well. Both are going to be pretty conservative places with large Native-American populations in the vicinity and act as the regional hubs of industry. Both are going to get pretty cold in the winter. In neither of these places is the city going to be the chief attraction. It's all about living life outside of the city. If you're looking for city life and urban amenities, I might pass. There will be zero shopping--at least not that would satisfy most used to an urban lifestyle.
 
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The only way to live in these Western rural/frontier states is if you love the outdoors no matter how damn cold it is. We lived in a cabin at the base of the mountains about 20 miles from a very rural town in Wyoming. Loved every minute of it, but most people would hate it and if you had to live in town? Ugh. Also, consider social environment as the average urban/suburban doc is not like the people who live in these remote areas. Fortunately, my wife and I socialize mainly when we travel and are happy with just a few acquaintances. Now we do live in one of those crummy frontier towns surrounded by wheat fields and nothing. Can't wait to get back to the high country. :)
 
I find it a bit amusing to look at the love for Billings v. Rapid City. I personally think they are a lot alike. In Rapid City, you are essentially surrounded by the the Black Hills, which are basically the environment around Billings, though with Billings probably with fewer trees and being more open praire. Obviously Billings is a couple of hours away from some larger ski resorts, whereas Rapid City isn't. Billings is a bit larger of a city, as well. Both are going to be pretty conservative places with large Native-American populations in the vicinity and act as the regional hubs of industry. Both are going to get pretty cold in the winter. In neither of these places is the city going to be the chief attraction. It's all about living life outside of the city. If you're looking for city life and urban amenities, I might pass. There will be zero shopping--at least not that would satisfy most used to an urban lifestyle.
What Rapid has that Billings doesn't (as much*) is the constant flux of The Classic American Tourist Family coming to see Mt. Rushmore and every other attraction in western SD. The Hills can be really nice, but the tourist traps you have to navigate to get there... :eek: Not exactly your idyllic Western scene.

*(probably is a bit of a stopping off point for Yellowstone, etc., but I'm sure nothing like the density of schlock that is Rapid City).
 
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