So, I left medical school.

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whizatphys

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After almost completing year two, I voluntarily withdrew from medical school. Truthfully, I couldn't handle the stress without being an unhealthy person. For anyone who is interested, or who may be struggling with a similar decision, I've recorded a video discussing my experience:


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After almost completing year two, I voluntarily withdrew from medical school. Truthfully, I couldn't handle the stress without being an unhealthy person. For anyone who is interested, or who may be struggling with a similar decision, I've recorded a video discussing my experience:

 
Sad that your school was so negative. I can tell you that not all schools are like that in terms of gunning. I'm glad you're happy with your decision. I think med school is definitely more for the workaholic type.

Thanks for sharing your experience!
 
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I watched your video and had a few questions:

1) how much debt are you in from med school?
2) what are you planning to do now?
3) how did it feel to fail?
4) how did it feel to quit?

Thank you
 
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I'm at work right now and unable to play the video, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. Good luck with your future endeavors. *Hug*
 
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Woo, got it to work at 2x. Sorry you had a bad experience. I'll add more once I'm done watching your video.
 
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Woo, got it to work at 2x. Sorry you had a bad experience. I'll add more once I'm done watching your video.
Is the video high yield?
 
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I just watched the full video, and I don't want to try and critique all the specifics, but I agree with what I think is the overall point, that blind ambition runs rampant in med school (and premeds). I'm really glad you shared your experience, I'm sorry that things didn't live up to what you had in mind before you entered med school. I think that if more people figured out earlier that being a doctor isn't as glamorous as it sounds, then every poll of doctors wouldn't have ~50% saying they wouldn't choose medicine again as a career if they could do their life over again.
 
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Hope she gets the help she needs, definitely a stressful situation to be in!
 
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Takes a lot to do what you did. It certainly isn't for everybody. Best wishes to you in your future endeavors.
 
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I am in exactly the same position but I am still trying to push through
 
tl;dr is "Gunners, gunners everywhere but not a friend to see," "med school didn't match my personality," "I've missed a lot of my life because I've been too busy studying," and "I went into this for the wrong reasons."

Sad thing is, I honestly think she'd have done great at my school. From all of her complaints and her description of her personality, she seems like a typical student here- not gunnerish, but wanting to achieve, wants to be a physician but also values her work-life balance, etc.
 
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I am in exactly the same position but I am still trying to push through

I really despise that term "push through" - pushing through is so bad psychologically. But on point, i really hope you are getting the support you need mentally.
 
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She makes so many great points, it must have took a lot of courage to share that - it must be a confusing time, but it seems she is gaining the clarity she needs in her life.
 
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Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.
 
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tl;dr is "Gunners, gunners everywhere but not a friend to see," "med school didn't match my personality," "I've missed a lot of my life because I've been too busy studying," and "I went into this for the wrong reasons."

Sad thing is, I honestly think she'd have done great at my school. From all of her complaints and her description of her personality, she seems like a typical student here- not gunnerish, but wanting to achieve, wants to be a physician but also values her work-life balance, etc.
Curious as to what school you are at, sounds wonderful.
 
Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.

Yeah, going into the cycle I had a specific west-coast DO school as my #1 choice - after the interview day and communications with students there, it dropped off. I usually have a fairly good intuition for "vibe" and "atmosphere" and it just didn't feel compatible with my own needs.
 
tl;dr is "Gunners, gunners everywhere but not a friend to see," "med school didn't match my personality," "I've missed a lot of my life because I've been too busy studying," and "I went into this for the wrong reasons."

Sad thing is, I honestly think she'd have done great at my school. From all of her complaints and her description of her personality, she seems like a typical student here- not gunnerish, but wanting to achieve, wants to be a physician but also values her work-life balance, etc.

And yet I went to a top allo school and had none of the same complaints.

I don't think these things are that generalizable to DO vs MD or upper vs lower tier
 
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That was brave of you. Thanks for posting that OP.

That said, there is no way on this planet I could have done dental school five years ago, or even now. I don't know how non trad people do it, my energy levels are so different now than they were when I started out of college, and I would 100% be unsuccessful if I tried starting now. So. You guys are way smarter and stronger than I am. :D
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience.

As a second year student, I agree with a lot of the points you've made about medical school.

Many students do decide to go into medicine without really understanding what they are getting themselves into. It is difficult for someone who does not have doctor parents to really understand what life as a medical student / resident / doctor is like. You can try asking physicians to let you shadow them, but its a pretty big inconvenience to them due to privacy laws and such.

In my experience, I found that first year was manageable - I still had a social life and was able to spend time with family and friends, but during second year that changed and my entire life became study study study. I don't think everyone had this experience though. Those who are natural memorizers seemed to have a much easier time and a better life balance. So the better you are at memorizing, the easier time you will have.

I speak to my colleagues who are in 3rd and 4th year and I know it won't get easier. Long shifts. Sleepless nights. And MORE studying for board exams. This is followed by residency, a time in your life where you are 250k in debt but make no more than your average STEM bachelor graduate starting salary and work anywhere from 60-100 hours per week (depending on specialty) for 3 years. It's absolutely gruelling and not in any way conducive to a healthy lifestyle. Those that do manage a healthy lifestyle are absolute machines with almost zero free time to themselves.

Just because I don't want this to be an entirely negative post, here are the good things I see in medicine:
- It is the most streamlined way to land a high paying job (albeit at a 250k debt sacrifice)
- It can be incredibly rewarding (albeit probably less than 30% of the time - YMMV)

If you can think you can be happy doing anything else, seriously consider it. But if medicine is the only thing that will bring you joy, you better be prepared to deal with some serious sacrifices.
 
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Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.

There's gunners in all medical schools and there's miserable people at all medical schools. There's also happy people at all medical schools too. I don't think one environment or degree changes that.
 
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And yet I went to a top allo school and had none of the same complaints.

I don't think these things are that generalizable to DO vs MD or upper vs lower tier
It's more about the MD schools I was competitive for that were within a reasonable distance didn't fit my personality. It's a culture thing, I guess. The DO schools nearby had a much better culture for my personality, having done some visits and spoken to some students on both sides of the fence.
 
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Hi,

Haha I created an entire thread for you because I thought you deleted your original post. It's sitting in pre-allo if you want to look at it before it's most likely deleted.

Anyways, this is what I wanted to say to you:

Wow. I hope people will be able to be considerate of the bravery required to admit something like this. And, as much as I'd like, I don't think it's worth it to ask you to think this over again. That feeling mostly stems from knowing a fellow science teacher that left Medical School in his early 20's after finished two years, taught for ten years, had a family, and the kids, and the nice yard with a cool garden, but never really lost that need to be a physician. He just went back to school, this time around to a DO school, this September.


However, best to you. I hope you find a career that's rewarding. In your case, depending upon what state you live in, I would really recommend teaching in the public schools. My colleague entered a career switcher program, from medical student to middle school science teacher. There's a multitude of resources for a science educator. In our state, we have a loan forgiveness and repayment program. There's a marginal repayment every year, and if you've taught for 8 or more years, all of your loans are forgiven, which was a great deal for him, as he was in pretty deep. Additionally, we have a hudhouse program, which gives teachers a house in a poorer region. This might seem like a bad deal, but really, every house in that development is sold at 50% to a teacher or a policeman, firefighter, ect. So very safe to live in, and after 3 years, you can sell it, so you make like 100-200K pretty easily, also helpful in paying off loans. The Hudhouse program is a national one, so I would look into it.

Again, best to you.
 
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Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.

Agreed. P.s. I watched the video on 1.5x, idk how could anyone watch it on 2x. I could barely catch what she said at that speed.

To OP, I sympathize for her. I feel like many premeds should watch this video before the decide before applying to medical school.
 
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I followed this thread here from pre-allo; I wonder if her school was P/F, and if being around students who were probably 3.8 GPA, 33+ MCAT types (saw she went to a top-tier med school from Googling other posts of hers) intimidated her/hurt her confidence levels.

It's more about the MD schools I was competitive for that were within a reasonable distance didn't fit my personality. It's a culture thing, I guess. The DO schools nearby had a much better culture for my personality, having done some visits and spoken to some students on both sides of the fence.

Could you be less vague? What did you not like about the cultures at the MD schools for which you were competitive? What do you like about your current school?
 
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I don't know. Different MD programs have distinct personalities, even in the T-20 tier. MD programs w/ primary care (Vermont, UWash) focus will be more chill than Duke or Harvard. West Coast schools are known for their relaxed positive culture, although OHSU's new curriculum appears very cluttered.
 
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There's gunners in all medical schools and there's miserable people at all medical schools. There's also happy people at all medical schools too. I don't think one environment or degree changes that.
Different schools do have different cultures. At my school, gunners straight up are not tolerated- administration selects against them from the beginning, and any gunnerish behavior is both shunned by other students and by administration. It's basically a zero tolerance policy for dickish behavior from the top down. I literally don't know of a single gunner in my school, though I'm sure there's a few that are flying under the radar, because statistics. We're pretty damn kumbaya around here, you'd be surprised.
 
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Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.
Hmm, I don't know if I agree with this lumping in DO vs MD, or the idea that the OP would have been happy in a DO school. It sounds like there were issues just with the physician lifestyle, which, at it's best is usually not as easy as most and requires a ridiculous amount of training.
 
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Man, sad to see several of these type of threads to pop up lately.

If it's really for the right reasons, I don't have a problem with it.

Better people figuring it out and making a wise decision to back out after a year or two than keep going down the rabbit hole only to be a bitter burnt out resident.

Probably the profession would be better if more people had the courage to do what she did rather than keep going when it's obviously not the right fit.
 
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Hmm, I don't know if I agree with this lumping in DO vs MD, or the idea that the OP would have been happy in a DO school. It sounds like there were issues just with the physician lifestyle, which, at it's best is usually not as easy as most and requires a ridiculous amount of training.
Perhaps I should limit it to my first choice DO school fit better than my state MD school, the new MD school, or the Ivy MD school that were kicking around in my area. I didn't visit every school, because obviously, but from the 4 MD schools whose students I spoke to compared to the ones I knew from my DO school, the cultures were very, very different. All 4 MD schools were competitive, the DO school doesn't give out class ranks and is totally cooperative. At the MD schools, gunnery was commonplace and expected, at my school it's basically the fastest way to get completely ostracized and excluded from all the class study guides and activities. There were a whole lot of nontrads like myself at the DO school, not nearly as many at the MD schools I was looking at. Most of the DO students I talked to were looking at IM, FM, peds, or the ED, while the MDs seemed to be hell-bent on surgery or specialty work, which didn't really give us much common ground. It all just added up to DO being a better choice for me, I guess.
 
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Could you be less vague? What did you not like about the cultures at the MD schools for which you were competitive? What do you like about your current school?
I am at a DO school, and specifically, our students are better looking than the MDs nearby. This makes our culture less competitive because at the end of the day we all say "hey, at least we're not ugly".
 
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Different schools do have different cultures. At my school, gunners straight up are not tolerated- administration selects against them from the beginning, and any gunnerish behavior is both shunned by other students and by administration. It's basically a zero tolerance policy for dickish behavior from the top down. I literally don't know of a single gunner in my school, though I'm sure there's a few that are flying under the radar, because statistics. We're pretty damn kumbaya around here, you'd be surprised.
Well, I said in my first reply that I didn't want to critique the OP, because I do 100% genuinely appreciate her story, and it's something I would like a lot of premeds who aren't sure about med school or who have blind ambition to hear. I would imagine many of the students around the country who drop out of med school share her sentiments. But, I wonder how much true "gunning" was going on in the first two years of med school for the OP. Even on SDN, a relatively anonymous internet forum which is likely full of "gunners", when someone makes a post of "tell your stories about gunners," the results are pretty tame, with very few shocking anecdotes. The OP talks about people who would ask questions using big words trying to sound smart...did that actually help their grade? Did it screw anybody else over? Or were maybe, just maybe, those people possibly (and bear with me here, because it is crazy...) just smart nerds who enjoyed studying all day long and had come across deeper points about the human body and pathology past that of their classmates?
 
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Well, I said in my first reply that I didn't want to critique the OP, because I do 100% genuinely appreciate her story, and it's something I would like a lot of premeds who aren't sure about med school or who have blind ambition to hear. I would imagine many of the students around the country who drop out of med school share her sentiments. But, I wonder how much true "gunning" was going on in the first two years of med school for the OP. Even on SDN, a relatively anonymous internet forum which is likely full of "gunners", when someone makes a post of "tell your stories about gunners," the results are pretty tame, with very few shocking anecdotes. The OP talks about people who would ask questions using big words trying to sound smart...did that actually help their grade? Did it screw anybody else over? Or were maybe, just maybe, those people possibly (and bear with me here, because it is crazy...) just smart nerds who enjoyed studying all day long and had come across deeper points about the human body and pathology past that of their classmates?
Totally possible. I guess it's more that the culture at my school is extremely cooperative, whereas at every other school I looked at, it was extremely competitive. It wouldn't surprise me if she was in a school that had a fairly cooperative environment, given that she was at a top med school, and that probably just wasn't the right thing for her.
 
Probably the profession would be better if more people had the courage to do what she did rather than keep going when it's obviously not the right fit.

would also reduce the number of threads revolving around "not enough residency spots!"

joking aside, best luck to you OP, I hope you find a career that is perfect for you and sounds like you've taken the first step in that direction
 
Totally possible. I guess it's more that the culture at my school is extremely cooperative, whereas at every other school I looked at, it was extremely competitive. It wouldn't surprise me if she was in a school that had a fairly cooperative environment, given that she was at a top med school, and that probably just wasn't the right thing for her.
And, I do want to say, you might be 100% right on the differences between schools that are highly competitive and ones that aren't. I don't really have experiences of MD schools outside of the one I got accepted to, and it is a lower ranked state MD school. Even though we have grades and people going for subspecialties, I have to say that overall, I have a good vibe from my classmates. However, I still could see how medicine, even if friendly with good peers, could still be hard on many people if it's not right for them...and I needed to defend my MD status a little bit.
 
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I am at a DO school, and specifically, our students are better looking than the MDs nearby. This makes our culture less competitive because at the end of the day we all say "hey, at least we're not ugly".

Not sure if you're serious, but I was curious, so here's a WashU event of some sort (let's just say that I doubt WashU has to, or had to, worry about any of them leaving for modeling careers):
md-student-oath-white-coat.jpg
 
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Hey @Mad Jack and @Donald Juan what signs should 1 look for as clues to the culture of a medical school in terms of competetiveness/gunner? What kind of questions should 1 ask and what sign should 1 look for?
 
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Hey @Mad Jack and @Donald Juan what signs should 1 look for as clues to the culture of a medical school in terms of competetiveness/gunner? What kind of questions should 1 ask and what sign should 1 look for?
Just ask. I asked people if they would describe the atmosphere as competitive or cooperative and what sort of personality best fit at each school. Can't remember my exact wording, it was so long ago.
 
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Hey @Mad Jack and @Donald Juan what signs should 1 look for as clues to the culture of a medical school in terms of competetiveness/gunner? What kind of questions should 1 ask and what sign should 1 look for?

Ask the following:

"Are you a gunner?"
"Are there a lot of gunners in your class?"

If they answer "yes", clearly they're a gunner and/or their class is full of them and you should avoid it.

If they answer "no", they're lying, which is what gunners do.

trustno____1.gif
 
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And yet I went to a top allo school and had none of the same complaints.

I don't think these things are that generalizable to DO vs MD or upper vs lower tier
Maybe because you were one of the gunners at your top allo school?
 
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Maybe because you were one of the gunners at your top allo school?

I don't know SS in real life, but he strikes me as very much not the gunner type.

A gunner is usually a middle-of-the-road quality student who can't succeed on his or her own merit, resorting to underhanded/sneaky tactics to drag others down so they may look better by comparison.
 
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