So I Was Poking Around on the Internet....

[kcrat21]

...and something came up about St. Augustine being a diploma mill? This makes me super nervous. I am very interested in attending the school, but I saw this and started to wonder how reputable the program is. Does anyone know? Is it as good/reputable as other programs? I'd really appreciate some insight...

Thanks

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[NATO]

Aren't all colleges/universities "dipolma mills" these days? I believe they are so.

 

[PT2014]

Schools charging $80,000-150,000 for tuition.. diploma mill. It's about dollars.

 

[track11]

hate to say it, but their tuition is absolutely insane-- if you can, go for a cheaper route.

are they a "for-profit" school? if so, don't go near it!!

 

[kcrat21]

well that was super helpful guys, thanks

 

[jbizzle]

I'm here in FL and I've volunteered with two PTs that went to USA st. Augustine. They loved it and recommended I apply there (I never did). I had classmates that went to interview and they said that the school is so small but the faculty is so nice and helpful which we made a joke out of it because that's how they make up for the school being so small, and how they lure students to their program. The two PTs didn't have any complaints about their education. However, they never did comment on the tuition so I'm not sure what they thought about that.

Anyway, look for a combination of good education and less tuition if possible. For applicants like me however, sometimes we just have to bite the bullet if we can't get in anywhere else, and may have to settle for the higher tuition.

 

[bhatiaa1]

I work with two PTs that went to St. Augustine (one in Kansas and one that is an owner of a Peak clinic in Texas). Both recommended it for their strong emphasis on manual therapy. Supposedly, you will have 2 of the 4 classes required to be certified by the time you graduate. Being certified in manual therapy means more opportunity in job placement, more clienteles, and more money.

IMO, i kind of like the idea that USA is not academic university... in which all their budget and resources are spent in their PT program only.

Diploma mill... a piece of paper that says "you graduated from our program" doesn't mean anything till you pass NPTE, right? I believe their NPTE pass rate is around 97-98%. As long as a school has a high NPTE rate, I would couldn't called them a diploma mill.

 

[kcrat21]

okay, those were much more helpful! thank you both so much!

I was wondering because I am going to be finished with my prereqs this summer and I don't want to wait an entire year to begin a program...plus, manual therapy is my big area of interest, so I was really banking on St. Augustine since they start in January.

I am definitely applying now. thanks a lot!

 

[markelmarcel]

Honestly, in my opinion, if it were me... I would be willing to wait (in fact, I did wait an entire year. I was done with my prereqs Aug. 3, 2010 and I don't start my DPT program until Aug 29, 2011.) in order to save potentially TONS of money (tuition wise).

Yes, St. Augustine obviously has perks, but I honestly cannot fathom accruing over $100k in student loans when I will probably bring home around $50k when I start in the workforce.

It's just not plausible when there are other things I want in life to spend that much money on schooling----- I want to get married- weddings cost money... I would like to buy a new (not necessary brand new, but new to me) car- cars cost money... I want to own a home- mortgages cost money and previous debt can effect the amount/interest you can get on a loan.

Yes, PT is my passion, but unfortunately it is NOT going to define me as a person and be all that my life is about.

I was in a similar position- I could've crammed all my prereqs in and applied to one school and finished my prereqs in May 2010 and started in June 2010 (which is what a girlfriend of mine did) but she is going to be paying around $90k in tuition-- that doesn't include books or cost of living. I'm glad I waited a year, I have a decent paying job (not something that I could support myself on, but I am living at home with my parents at the moment) and have put away almost $4500 since September 2010 towards my schooling.

Waiting was worth it for me, it may or may not be for you, but it's something to consider.

 

[kcrat21]

Well....I've been waiting. lol. I'll be 25 on Tuesday, so I'm a little bit older than "most" students applying. By the time I start the program I'll be 26...and by the time I'm done, around 29...I graduated from college in 2007 so I've taken a couple of years off to work and finally realize that the career path I originally chose was...well, not for me.

I don't have any debt from undergrad because I got a scholarship to play soccer that paid for it all. I'm already married...so I don't have to worry about a wedding (we have no debt from that either) and my husband and I each have a car that we own outright so there are no problems there. We do have a 2 year-old so preschool is looming, but we live in one of the most expensive areas in the country (Northern VA) so moving to St. Augustine, FL would be great for us, financially. The closest program to me, Marymount, is comparable in cost to St. Augustine, but the cost of living here is EXPONENTIAL compared to living in St. Augustine. My husband's income won't change when we move based on the profession that he's in (he may actually get paid more) and he's currently the only one working so we will definitely be in a BETTER financial situation and may actually be able to....wait for it...SAVE some money, which we have been hard pressed to do as of late in NoVA.

To me, spending $90k (which according to USA's website includes books and miscellaneous fees...and then I added $7k) to get a quality education is worth it--especially for something I am so passionate about. The only reason why I didn't get into it earlier is because I was a young, dumb, college idiot who wanted to play soccer instead of study.

I've waited long enough...I want to get this party started already.

 

[jbizzle]

hey I'll be 26 when I start this fall. Damn im old

 

[kcrat21]

i feel you, jbizzle...

 

[bhatiaa1]

I worked in the business industry for about 7 years and I was ready for a change. Money was great but the job was fulfilling. I have no debt (besides my wife's medical school tuition, and no kids. I will be 31 if I get accepted in 2012 (hey, 25-26 is yoooooung). I sometimes regret not starting earlier but hey... who cares. You'll be doing something your passionate about. You'll be getting a doctorates in only 3 years... and you don't have to do residency afterward.... AND your hours are great!

Now, let's do the math. The difference in cost between this private school and most east coast coast is maybe like $30-45K, right?
Isn't St. Augustine a 2.5 years program? So you could be potential earning $20-$30K earlier than 3 year graduates. Add in the potential earnings when you become certified in manual therapy. You get the idea.... IMO, the cost difference for a quality education is worth it.

 

[johncronejr]

hey I'll be 26 when I start this fall. Damn im old

Yeah jbizzle, you're ancient!

cough.....I'll turn 46 just 2 months after starting PT school this August.

 

[kcrat21]

bhatiaa...my sentiments exactly! thanks! I started my app last night!

 

[markelmarcel]

Well....I've been waiting. lol. I'll be 25 on Tuesday, so I'm a little bit older than "most" students applying. By the time I start the program I'll be 26...and by the time I'm done, around 29...I graduated from college in 2007 so I've taken a couple of years off to work and finally realize that the career path I originally chose was...well, not for me.

Well, I'm glad to hear you have a lot of the other things you want out of life accomplished already. I, myself am 25 and will turn 26 in March. Making me 29 when I graduate.

I have no debt from my undergrad because my parents went in debt for me, but this time it is all me.

But- in any case- it definitely helps to have a second income while you go to school. I will, sort of, as my boyfriend is about to buy a "starter house" for us and so I won't be totally alone.

Although, I also knew I wanted to be in Pittsburgh because of him/our situation/eventual marriage and the other school was closer to my home, but even further from him/Pittsburgh. I don't know, maybe I am more paranoid about debt than other people? Haha. I have no idea...

But anyway-- I hear you on the waiting-- it is TOUGH!

GOOD LUCK!

 

[kcrat21]

I honestly just a need a change of scenery, as well. I've lived in Northern Virginia for my entire life, not including the few years I spent in beautiful New Jersey (sense my sarcasm...) which is not too much of a change from NoVA. If I thought I would be happy going to Marymount, I would apply there--and I probably still will if I don't get into USA. But its not Marymount's fault that I don't want to go there, because its a nice place (I am taking my pre-reqs there right now). My problem with Northern VA is that it costs a ridiculous amount of money to live near anything worth seeing/doing/going to.

For instance, in order to only have to pay $1050 in rent for my housing, I have to live 45 mins away (1.5 hours with traffic..which there ALWAYS is in NoVA, no matter what time of day) from Marymount. The closer you get to Marymount...the more the prices skyrocket for rentals. In Arlington, a tiny, one bedroom apartment goes for $2000. Its ridiculous. I'm just sick of having to live that way...I live in a really crappy 3 bedroom townhouse where everything is falling apart, 1.5 hours away from school in bad neighborhood and I have a toddler...and that's just how Northern VA is. I'm so jaded/sick of it...I can't wait to get out...

...so the sooner the better. (sorry for the rant)

 

[jbizzle]

Marymount's tuition is close to USA's tuition. Cost of living around st Augustine isn't bad either. Sounds like you really want to go to USA and it's right by the beach. When I go, I always see dolphins...anyway...if a school Is accredited, pass rates are high, the next thing to look for is tuition. Since you were talking about applying to Marymount (high tuition andhigh cost of living) anyway, I'd say USA would be a good choice with what you just posted.

 

[jesspt]

I work with two PTs that went to St. Augustine (one in Kansas and one that is an owner of a Peak clinic in Texas). Both recommended it for their strong emphasis on manual therapy. Supposedly, you will have 2 of the 4 classes required to be certified by the time you graduate. Being certified in manual therapy means more opportunity in job placement, more clienteles, and more money.

You need eight classes to become certified through USA, I think.

http://www.usa.edu/continuing_education.aspx?id=7a1ec890-0b77-410d-a72c-5259f94a3eab

Also, a manual therapy certification isn't likely to impact your salary that much, but may provide you a leg up if you're competing for the same job with another therapist and the facility you want to work at values a manual therapy approach.

Also, keep in mind that all accredited school are required to teach their students manual therapy, including manipulation, in order to meet standards set by the accrediting body to gain/maintain their accreditation. Like any other class, some schools may do a better job than others, but you will recieve instruction in manual therapy where ever you choose to go.

There are a lot of less expensive schools one could attend and still get a quality education in the area of manual therapy.

 

[markelmarcel]

Also, keep in mind that all accredited school are required to teach their students manual therapy, including manipulation, in order to meet standards set by the accrediting body to gain/maintain their accreditation. Like any other class, some schools may do a better job than others, but you will recieve instruction in manual therapy where ever you choose to go.

There are a lot of less expensive schools one could attend and still get a quality education in the area of manual therapy.

Jesspt- do you happen to know if other schools will set you up on a path to be able to complete certification like USA does?

 

[jesspt]

Jesspt- do you happen to know if other schools will set you up on a path to be able to complete certification like USA does?

It's not something that I have looked into. I wouldn't think so, as most of the certification programs out there are run through private continuing education companies rather than universities.

Things to keep in mind about manual therapy certification:

• There is no one governing body that oversees the curriculum or grants accreditation to these companies that provide manual therapy certification, so the product you get may vary widly.
• There is minimal and conflicting evidence regarding the efficacy of treatments provided by certified PTs vs. non-certified PTs.
• Many of these certification programs provide instruction on examination and treatment techniques that have not held up well to scientific inquiry, and approach orthopaedic manual therapy from an extremely biomechanistic point of view, rather than a biopsychosocial approach (which MAY be a better approach).

 

[markelmarcel]

It's not something that I have looked into. I wouldn't think so, as most of the certification programs out there are run through private continuing education companies rather than universities.


Things to keep in mind about manual therapy certification:

• There is no one governing body that oversees the curriculum or grants accreditation to these companies that provide manual therapy certification, so the product you get may vary widly.
• There is minimal and conflicting evidence regarding the efficacy of treatments provided by certified PTs vs. non-certified PTs.
• Many of these certification programs provide instruction on examination and treatment techniques that have not held up well to scientific inquiry, and approach orthopaedic manual therapy from an extremely biomechanistic point of view, rather than a biopsychosocial approach (which MAY be a better approach).

Thanks for the info. To be honest, manual therapy isn't a topic I've looked too much into, it was more of "I wonder if..."

So thanks!