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So if a DO earns the same money and is treated the same...

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by Lacipart, May 6, 2007.

  1. Lacipart

    Lacipart M1 at UW-Madison 5+ Year Member

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    Why go MD?

    I mean from what I have read I gather the following:

    - Your residency and fellowship training are more important than where you went to medical school.

    - MDs and DOs get of the same field get paid the same

    - Patients don't know the difference

    - As a physician you and your colleagues will be too busy to care about where you went to medical school.


    Okay, so that's all fine and dandy but what's the catch? I mean surly MDs have some advantage besides the fact that there slightly more prestigious. I mean, for the difference in MCAT average (30 for MD, 26 for DO) and GPA (3.7 MD, 3.4 DO) clearly MDs have some huge advantage considering everyone gets paid the same and treated the same.
     
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  3. Biostats.moore

    Biostats.moore Member 7+ Year Member

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    same money=same thing
     
  4. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    Not sure if your a troll, but to answer your question the one difference is that some areas of medicine will be easier to access with an MD than a DO. While there are many AOA programs, there are some sub-specialties/fellowships that are much easier to get into as an MD.
     
  5. Typically MD schools are attached to large universities with more resources usually including an attached hospital with most if not all medical specialties represented. MD residencies are more plentiful and there's more of higher quality.

    Also, it's the path of least resistance.
     
  6. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor 5+ Year Member

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    I'll answer in case this isn't reverse trolling.

    For me and anyone (orthopods, FM, PM&R to name a few) who is going to be be dealing with the musculoskeletal system being a DO is way more advantageous. With just our basic training we get way more exposure to the anatomy of the MSK system, and I think we have a better understanding of its mechanics.

    But at least being an MD you don't have to explain what your degree is to some undergrad whose has $hit for brains.
     
  7. gotmeds?

    gotmeds? 5+ Year Member

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    I should point out that the happy MDs have those same advantages, not just the surly ones. Besides, what's the point of getting an MD if you're just going to be surly all the time?
     
  8. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    This is key. While many graduates from schools like DMU, KCUMB, and PCOM have been getting great MD residency spots, as an MD it will be much easier to get that residency that you want (if all else is up to par). However there is nothing wrong with going the DO route, as many on this forum will attest to.
     
  9. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    The catch is that all things aren't equal. While it's true that DO's are, for the most part, perceived well and are, of course, complete physicians, they are the minority in the medical world, making up about 6% of the total physician population. That's small any way you slice it. Not everyone knows what DO's are, and depending on the region, may not always be as well received (mostly because of misinformation and just lack of exposure). These are all arguable points, however, and it's actually pointless to treat them as any thing more than arguable.

    Keep in mind that the premed mentality is a little different than the mentality of practicing physicians. MCAT scores and UGPA don't mean much after you get into medical school. It's pointless to compare based on those statistics after you've been accepted. In essence, the slate is wiped clean.

    The advantage of MD's is that they make up the majority of practicing physicians in the US. They are more focused on biomedical research, have more schools, and are well-recognized. It's the standard route. Borrowing from something I read once on SDN, MD's are sort of like the PC computer of the medical world.

    The advantage of DO's is that they learn OMM/OMT and they have well-established principles of patient care that are espoused in their teachings at school. You learn medicine in the context of these principles, and you learn to diagnose and treat with your hands. It's very basic medicine and it's actually quite in demand these days. DO's are generally more focused on primary care (around 60% of students eventually go into primary care) and working with the medically-underserved. However, DO's are still the minority right now. Borrowing from the same analogy as above, DO's are sort of like the MAC computer of the medical world.

    Hope that clears things up a little. Basically, go with the best program and the best fit for you.

    Good luck.
     
  10. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    Haven't heard of reverse trolling before. :confused:
     
  11. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

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    Signing "MD" after your name is easier than signing "DO".

    I've tried to come up with a nice way to sign "DO" after my name but I cant get it to flow the way I want it to.
     
  12. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Because there are tons of MD schools and only about 25 DO schools...so, it's likely that you have one nearby. The tuition is likely to be a lot less. There is usually a research option available if you want it. There is usually a hospital attached to the school. You can live in the same place for all four years. You're pretty much gonna get a residency if you want one (albeit not necessarily in your chosen specialty), etc.

    That said, there are also positive reasons to choose DO.

    What are you really asking here?
     
  13. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Exactly.
     
  14. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

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    I think she wants your number. :thumbup:
     
  15. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    $1 says the OP is a troll if they don't post within 10 min.
     
  16. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Ummmmmm.....4?
     
  17. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    Isn't that too high?
     
  18. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Obviously, you never saw Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School :)
     
  19. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    :eek:
     
  20. Lacipart

    Lacipart M1 at UW-Madison 5+ Year Member

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    Ha thanks guys, appreciate the responces.

    Oh and no, I'm not a troll, just an honest question. I told my room-mate I'm retaking a class since I got a B in Genetics and it's going to lower my science GPA. She (a education major) replies with "That's a waste of time, I'm telling you just go DO, it's so much easier to get into those schools!" This was followed by a 15 minuite arguement and google battle as we both tried to find statistics to prove the other wrong.:laugh:

    Anyway, again thanks for the info!
     
  21. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    I see, so it was all about being right, huh? :p

    Anyway, if you are applying to allopathic schools, retaking a class in which you received a grade of "B" is probably a waste of time. You can't replace the grade that you already received on the AMCAS (the primary application service for allopathic schools); your grade for the repeated classes will just get averaged in with your prior grade and all of your other undergraduate grades. It might be better to take a more advanced science class, related to Genetics, if you like, and get an A in that class.

    Repeating a class makes sense, in my opinion, if you performed poorly in a given class and you want to show competency in that subject. A grade of "B" really doesn't qualify, in my book at least, as performing poorly. However, if you are looking to apply to DO schools, the AACOMAS (the primary application service for osteopathic schools) will only include your latest repeat into the GPA calculations, but your original grade is still listed. This is an advantage if you performed poorly in a particular class in which you later repeat and perform well. In any case, if I got a B in a particular science class, I'd probably let it go and take a more advanced science class and get an A in that; it just makes more sense to me. Keep trending those A's, though, and don't freak out if you happen to get a B.

    Of course, I recommend that you do what makes sense to you, though. Good luck.
     
  22. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

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    DO schools love B students.
     
  23. MaximusD

    MaximusD Anatomically Incorrect Physician 10+ Year Member

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    i concur

    I had a 3.25 GPA with only 2 C+s in all of college placing me into the first "B-student" category... not too many A's just a lot of B's.

    To be honest, I think the difference between A's and B's in basic sciences are negligible anyway --

    but obviously I would say that as a B student lol
     
  24. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I made two B+s and a B in undergrad. So....no, Bs aren't all that bad :).
     
  25. Pansit

    Pansit 5+ Year Member

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    sorry maximus but I have to disagree with you here...in undergrad if i gave a half-ass effort for a class I usually ended up with a B (never got a C), but if I actually buckled down, paid attention, and studied on a regular basis I would get an A easy...so I think getting an A in a class signifies the effort one placed into it, while in undergrad a B can be achieved just by coasting through a course. I am not saying you just coasted through undergrad and thats why you were a "B" student but I think "A" students generally were more focused and studied in a more regular basis...do you agree?
     
  26. Dustbunny

    Dustbunny 2+ Year Member

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    B students are obviously more well-rounded. :thumbup:
     
  27. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    :thumbup: I think B students make the best docs. Smart but not conceited. Hard workers since they aren't blessed with photographic memory. Just all around good peps, your average Joe/Jane.

    (DO schools also love "hot" chicks.)
     
  28. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    So...what you're saying is that DO schools like B students just fine, but they love double-D students even more?
     
  29. Bacchus

    Bacchus Administrator Moderator Physician 10+ Year Member

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    The FP I shadow has to lift her pen where as the MD in the office doesn't have to. This made me chuckle.
     
  30. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor 5+ Year Member

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    Would never be able to get any work done in that enviornment. Fortunately this girls that inhabit my class...
     
  31. gotmeds?

    gotmeds? 5+ Year Member

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    Not necessarily. It's nice to think that if someone excels in one area, they must be deficient in another, but there are plenty of A students who are also well-rounded.
     
  32. Bleurberry

    Bleurberry 5+ Year Member

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    How boring is it going to be for you to take genetics over again because you got an 83 on a test instead of a 93? How is retaking it going to impress admissions that you're serious about medicine?
    Personally, I thank God every day that I can remember to that I was designed to BE an osteopath, not just apply to osteopathy because I'm a sell out or an underachiever or some weirdness that's perpetuated in pre-med forums. Best of luck, though!!
     
  33. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    Blasphemy.
     
  34. Lacipart

    Lacipart M1 at UW-Madison 5+ Year Member

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    ...and that answers my question!

    Q. Whats the benefit of being an MD?
    A. Signing your name is easier! :)
     
  35. rmonfee

    rmonfee

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    Hi, there are 4 D O 's in my small town, and about 40 MD's. I am trying to decide which route to take, but all of the D O schools are out of my state and then I would have to pay out of state tuition.
     
  36. spicedmanna

    spicedmanna Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

    Apply to schools according to your interest and to the program, DO and/or MD. It's true that money is a consideration, but it's a reality that medical school is expensive; even if you do go to state school, you'll be taking out loans. It's better to go to a school that you think you'd be happy attending, in my opinion. I would recommend not letting money be the limiting factor. It's 2-4 yrs of your life: choose wisely.

    Also, most DO schools are private. I think about 6 osteopathic schools give people tuition breaks for being a state resident. Unless you live in a state like Florida, Texas, or California, etc., you will pretty much have only one state school and it will most likely be an allopathic medical school. If you are scared about money, but are still interested in being an osteopathic physician, then apply to DO schools and also apply to your state schools. Heck, apply to some out-of-state MD schools, too. The more broadly you apply, the better your chances. In case, after you've interviewed at and visted the schools, you discover that there aren't any DO and/or MD schools in which you were accepted that are better than your state school in terms of your interest and/or their program, that you think would be worth the extra cash you will have to put out to attend them, you can always attend your state school and perhaps save a little cash.

    Anyway, do what pleases you; it's your life.

    Good luck!

    BTW, if there are only 44 physicians in your small town, then 4 DO's is above the 6% National representation for DO's. You have above the national representation of DO's in your small town. ;)
     
  37. Oculus Sinistra

    Oculus Sinistra Finish it. 5+ Year Member

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    Which is reason enough by itself to go to a DO school.
     
  38. dapmp91

    dapmp91 Member 7+ Year Member

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    Yes I totally agree with you, I tell everyone I'm make all B's and A's :) , we're generally the best because we're intelligent non-conceited people, we'll be humble doctors one day:love:
     
  39. Dustbunny

    Dustbunny 2+ Year Member

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    You may wish to get your sense of humor recalibrated.

    Let me guess, you weren't a B student were you? :laugh:
     
  40. NjD00

    NjD00 2+ Year Member

    The only REAL difference between MD and DO, other than the actual letters is this:

    MDs probe with instruments

    DOs probe with their hands
     
  41. gotmeds?

    gotmeds? 5+ Year Member

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    I was a very well-rounded B student back when I was a Philosophy major (before I was a pre-med). I ended up going back to school several years later and became a very non-well-rounded A student. Hey, it'd be nice if I could be well-rounded and get As, but I'm not that talented.
     
  42. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor 5+ Year Member

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    If you are not interested in learning OMM then go MD route. Med school is hard enough w/o having to learn something extra that causes extra stress if you don't have to. Learning OMT will sapp extra energy from you. Most MD schools are harder to get into but easier once you are there than DO schools simply according to volume of material.
     
  43. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

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    I was being sarcastic with my "DO schools love B students" comment. :confused:
     
  44. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran 10+ Year Member

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    You have to also realize that many DO schools do not place as much emphasis on other topics such as biochem, so the disparity in volume of information is not as great one would assume.

    Allopathic and Osteopathic student for the most part have the same volume of information to learn IMO. JP can you comment on this?
     
  45. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor 5+ Year Member

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    Whether in classroom or on my own I have to learn just as much biochem, physiology and whatever else that allopath facilities have to learn if I will be able to compete with an allopathic student on the on the USMLE. Notwithstanding, I think it is a fair asumption (but an assumption is all t is)that the average DO school gets hammered with way more anatomy. At VCOM we do anatomy for 11 months and we have our cadavers every step of the way (yes, all 11 months). Pound for pound I say we get just as much in curriculum or more because we have to pass the COMLEX and for some of us the USMLE and do well on both to be competitive anywhere.
     
  46. gotmeds?

    gotmeds? 5+ Year Member

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    :laugh: That's cute. Now what do you base this on, exactly?
     
  47. Static Line

    Static Line America's Guard of Honor 5+ Year Member

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    I am not measuring levels of difficulty at which ones curriculum is tought. By measuring straight curriculums in which we all have to learn the same basic sciences in order to pass board exams (for many DO's that is COMLEX and USMLE). No school is easy. But you also have to factor in the Osteopathic curriculum (OMM lectures, OMM lab). We simply have more on the plate = more to learn.
     
  48. HarveyCushing

    HarveyCushing 7+ Year Member

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    Too late to take it back. :thumbup:
     
  49. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned Banned 10+ Year Member

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    I will agree with the more hours per week of class and lab. Thats definately true. Just take the curriculum from any allopathic school and look at number of hours.

    All of my MD friends ask "what do they take out of the curriculum in order to fit OMM?"

    They are quite shocked when I tell them "nothing". They simply add OMM right on to everything else.
     
  50. scpod

    scpod Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    So...you've done a study on the curiculums of all DO and MD schools and actually compared this....or are you perpetuating another SDN myth again?
     
  51. DrVanNostran

    DrVanNostran 10+ Year Member

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    I was informed about this at the Osteopathic Medical Awareness Conference at COMP from one of the speakers. They talked about an overview of Osteopathic vs Allopathic Curriculums.
     

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