So much doom and gloom?

[Shinobiz11]

I hear multiple times from my peers how because of the merger we're not
1.going to get any competitive residencies
2. DO's are super discriminated in everything now because it's all going MD

Some even say that programs that have already converted to ACGME don't allow DO's now. No one has pulled out any evidence, wondering what others have to say. I understand for very competitive specialties, we'll still have issues, but they are making it sound like everyone in class of 2018+ is screwed.

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[67552931811]

I hear multiple times from my peers how because of the merger we're not
1.going to get any competitive residencies
2. DO's are super discriminated in everything now because it's all going MD

Some even say that programs that have already converted to ACGME don't allow DO's now. No one has pulled out any evidence, wondering what others have to say. I understand for very competitive specialties, we'll still have issues, but they are making it sound like everyone in class of 2018+ is screwed.

Why would you listen to first year medical students about any of that???

A physician family member once told me, "Don't listen to anything you hear in medical school when it starts with the phrase 'I heard'."

Heed this advice and save yourself the stress and worry my friend

 

[dfib slim]

Med school is literally high school, don't listen to the rumor mill.

 

[67552931811]

Med school is literally high school, don't listen to the rumor mill.

It is seriously high school all over again. It's bizarre

 

[NontradCA]

It is seriously high school all over again. It's bizarre

It's lame AF

 

[QueenJames]

I totally got this high school feeling when I interviewed at ACOM. It seems that everybody has their "clique" and people just grilled you when you walked by. i get their stress is through the roof but some folks were really cool too! It was really weird but enjoyable at the same time.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Med school is literally high school, don't listen to the rumor mill.

Oh yeah. I honestly didn't believe it until I got here. I find it even weirder that there are still a good amount of socially awkward people who just stick to themselves and don't talk to anyone

 

[dfib slim]

Oh yeah. I honestly didn't believe it until I got here. I find it even weirder that there are still a good amount of socially awkward people who just stick to themselves and don't talk to anyone

Just like high school. Shouldn't you be cramming for your cardio exam on Monday?

 

[Shinobiz11]

Just like high school. Shouldn't you be cramming for your cardio exam on Monday?

I'm a 1st year, we have a block exam next Monday

 

[kenjixshadow]

x

 

[NontradCA]

Oh yeah. I honestly didn't believe it until I got here. I find it even weirder that there are still a good amount of socially awkward people who just stick to themselves and don't talk to anyone

They probably don't like you. Ever thought that people go to med school to become physicians? What a narcissistic attitude. Someone doesn't talk to me, they = socially awkward. I bet you're the type who posts #medschool stuff on social media all day.

 

[Shinobiz11]

They probably don't like you. Ever thought that people go to med school to become physicians? What a narcissistic attitude. Someone doesn't talk to me, they = socially awkward. I bet you're the type who posts #medschool stuff on social media all day.

I'll get over it.

And duh people go to med school to become physicians, it's not like you can't make some friends along the way. I clearly stated they don't speak to anyone. From my observations they go to class(if they do) and then leave right after. We don't see them at events or activities. It's cool though, to each their own. I just thought med students would be a little more outgoing, I guess that ties back to the cliques.

Anyways you could go ahead and tell me more about myself, anything left to assume? #narcissism

 

[Dharma]

Oh yeah. I honestly didn't believe it until I got here. I find it even weirder that there are still a good amount of socially awkward people who just stick to themselves and don't talk to anyone

Maybe they think the bulk of ya are high schoolish tools? Just saying, it's cool to roll solo if you're cool with riding solo.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Its what you make of it. I generally say hi to almost everyone I pass, take the time to learn peoples names, and make small talk here and there with people I'm sitting next to in class. Everyone seems really nice and receptive at my school. I think what's been described above is more about perception than reality.

 

[NontradCA]

Its what you make of it. I generally say hi to almost everyone I pass, take the time to learn peoples names, and make small talk here and there with people I'm sitting next to in class. Everyone seems really nice and receptive at my school. I think what's been described above is more about perception than reality.

*Eye contact made. Social cue indicates I should make small talk. People seem to respond to sports, weather and recreational activities. I think I'll mention that because I will appear sociable.*

 

[W19]

I'll get over it.

And duh people go to med school to become physicians, it's not like you can't make some friends along the way. I clearly stated they don't speak to anyone. From my observations they go to class(if they do) and then leave right after. We don't see them at events or activities. It's cool though, to each their own. I just thought med students would be a little more outgoing, I guess that ties back to the cliques.

Anyways you could go ahead and tell me more about myself, anything left to assume? #narcissism

I am a MS2 student that goes to a MD school and there are few people in my class (including myself) that do not go to social events... Most of these people, like myself, are non traditional students in their 30s. They are not socially awkward; they might have other stuff going on in their lives they have to worry about... Since DO schools usually accept more non trad students, so it makes sense there might be some (or many) students who have no interest or time in mingling with others.

 

[W19]

I might also add: There are definitely cliques in med school as there are cliques everywhere there is a 'congregation'... As they say in French: 'Qui se ressemble s'assemble'.

 

[first_time_poster]

I hear multiple times from my peers how because of the merger we're not
1.going to get any competitive residencies
2. DO's are super discriminated in everything now because it's all going MD

Some even say that programs that have already converted to ACGME don't allow DO's now. No one has pulled out any evidence, wondering what others have to say. I understand for very competitive specialties, we'll still have issues, but they are making it sound like everyone in class of 2018+ is screwed.

You don't have to believe anyone about how DOs will fare in ACGME residencies. You can look at the numbers and decide for yourself.

As for the future, who knows? I think it will be status quo more or less, with the exception that MDs can now apply to competitive DO specialities if they so chose.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

For what it is worth most people at my school are strongly in support of the merger. Though that being said my class is pretty much opinion wise a MS1 class, not an OMS1 class.

In either case I doubt it'll effect much since DO programs will still be heavily DO friendly.

 

[Dharma]

I am a MS2 student that goes to a MD school and there are few people in my class (including myself) that do not go to social events... Most of these people, like myself, are non traditional students in their 30s. They are not socially awkward; they might have other stuff going on in their lives they have to worry about... Since DO schools usually accept more non trad students, so it makes sense there might be some (or many) students who have no interest or time in mingling with others.

Exactly. I'm in my 30s and in the first 20 minutes of orientation I saw medCOM-high in full effect. Chuckled to myself smh and was glad I had a wife and kid to go home to. Yeah, I talked to folks who sat around me and made a few friends, but basically ignored hundreds of others. Not to be mean, but mostly bc I just didn't have the time or energy to play Bayside High w Slater, Kelly, and Screech. High school was awesome... the first time it happened in the 90s; no need for second acts.

Kids.

 

[Dharma]

In either case I doubt it'll effect much since DO programs will still be heavily DO friendly.

Those that don't fold or get the ax that is. While this won't be most, there will be plenty.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Those that don't fold or get the ax that is. While this won't be most, there will be plenty.

I mean, will we really suffer much over the loss of a few IM & FM positions in ND? Or are we sure that some specialty positions are at serious risk?

 

[abolt18]

Exactly. I'm in my 30s and in the first 20 minutes of orientation I saw medCOM-high in full effect. Chuckled to myself smh and was glad I had a wife and kid to go home to. Yeah, I talked to folks who sat around me and made a few friends, but basically ignored hundreds of others. Not to be mean, but mostly bc I just didn't have the time or energy to play Bayside High w Slater, Kelly, and Screech. High school was awesome... the first time it happened in the 90s; no need for second acts.

Kids.

+1+1+1

 

[Bea5T]

Will someone point to me an instance where a group of humans did not form cliques? Because...that's what we do.

 

[AM508]

I am a MS2 student that goes to a MD school and there are few people in my class (including myself) that do not go to social events... Most of these people, like myself, are non traditional students in their 30s. They are not socially awkward; they might have other stuff going on in their lives they have to worry about... Since DO schools usually accept more non trad students, so it makes sense there might be some (or many) students who have no interest or time in mingling with others.

This. I am a non-trad and don't really go to any social events. I generally go to campus and conduct what business I need to conduct then go back to my apartment to study. I get along well with most of the people in my class but only interact socially (outside of class) with a handful of them. I have always hated the supposition that if you are not a pillar of extroversion you are "socially awkward".

 

[Shinobiz11]

Good perspective in this thread, excuse me if I offended anyone.

 

[dfib slim]

Exactly. I'm in my 30s and in the first 20 minutes of orientation I saw medCOM-high in full effect. Chuckled to myself smh and was glad I had a wife and kid to go home to. Yeah, I talked to folks who sat around me and made a few friends, but basically ignored hundreds of others. Not to be mean, but mostly bc I just didn't have the time or energy to play Bayside High w Slater, Kelly, and Screech. High school was awesome... the first time it happened in the 90s; no need for second acts.

Kids.

Are you me?

 

[costales]

The worst day in medical school and residency is better than the best day working as a drone for Amazon.com:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/t...stling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html
Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace
The company is conducting an experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers to get them to achieve its ever-expanding ambitions.
By JODI KANTOR and DAVID STREITFELD AUG. 15, 2015

SEATTLE — On Monday mornings, fresh recruits line up for an orientation intended to catapult them into Amazon’s singular way of working.

They are told to forget the “poor habits” they learned at previous jobs, one employee recalled. When they “hit the wall” from the unrelenting pace, there is only one solution: “Climb the wall,” others reported. To be the best Amazonians they can be, they should be guided by the leadership principles, 14 rules inscribed on handy laminated cards. When quizzed days later, those with perfect scores earn a virtual award proclaiming, “I’m Peculiar” — the company’s proud phrase for overturning workplace conventions.

At Amazon, workers are encouraged to tear apart one another’s ideas in meetings, toil long and late (emails arrive past midnight, followed by text messages asking why they were not answered), and held to standards that the company boasts are “unreasonably high.” The internal phone directory instructs colleagues on how to send secret feedback to one another’s bosses. Employees say it is frequently used to sabotage others. (The tool offers sample texts, including this: “I felt concerned about his inflexibility and openly complaining about minor tasks.”)

Many of the newcomers filing in on Mondays may not be there in a few years. The company’s winners dream up innovations that they roll out to a quarter-billion customers and accrue small fortunes in soaring stock. Losers leave or are fired in annual cullings of the staff — “purposeful Darwinism,” one former Amazon human resources director said. Some workers who suffered from cancer, miscarriages and other personal crises said they had been evaluated unfairly or edged out rather than given time to recover.

Even as the company tests delivery by drone and ways to restock toilet paper at the push of a bathroom button, it is conducting a little-known experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers, redrawing the boundaries of what is acceptable. The company, founded and still run by Jeff Bezos, rejects many of the popular management bromides that other corporations at least pay lip service to and has instead designed what many workers call an intricate machine propelling them to achieve Mr. Bezos’ ever-expanding ambitions...

Bo Olson was one of them. He lasted less than two years in a book marketing role and said that his enduring image was watching people weep in the office, a sight other workers described as well. “You walk out of a conference room and you’ll see a grown man covering his face,” he said. “Nearly every person I worked with, I saw cry at their desk.”

Thanks in part to its ability to extract the most from employees, Amazon is stronger than ever. Its swelling campus is transforming a swath of this city, a 10-million-square-foot bet that tens of thousands of new workers will be able to sell everything to everyone everywhere. Last month, it eclipsed Walmart as the most valuable retailer in the country, with a market valuation of $250 billion, and Forbes deemed Mr. Bezos the fifth-wealthiest person on earth...​

 

[Dharma]

I mean, will we really suffer much over the loss of a few IM & FM positions in ND? Or are we sure that some specialty positions are at serious risk?

It's happening. I've heard of surgical programs on the chopping block. I'm sure they're the exception, not the rule.

 

[Seth Joo]

I hear multiple times from my peers how because of the merger we're not
1.going to get any competitive residencies
2. DO's are super discriminated in everything now because it's all going MD

Some even say that programs that have already converted to ACGME don't allow DO's now. No one has pulled out any evidence, wondering what others have to say. I understand for very competitive specialties, we'll still have issues, but they are making it sound like everyone in class of 2018+ is screwed.

There is no doom and gloom, its just that prior to the merger there were exclusive AOA residency programs, and certain fields like Dermatology and Orthopedics were reachable for DOs because of these exclusive AOA programs, now that they will be dual accredited, MDs will be competing for them which means DOs will fall further down the totem pole.

Traditionally DOs have been limited to being OMM practioners and Family Practice physicians for most of our existence as a profession, its mostly in the last 20 years or so where we started breaking into all of the different specialties of medicine, started appearing at academic medical centers.

 

[67552931811]

There is no doom and gloom, its just that prior to the merger there were exclusive AOA residency programs, and certain fields like Dermatology and Orthopedics were reachable for DOs because of these exclusive AOA programs, now that they will be dual accredited, MDs will be competing for them which means DOs will fall further down the totem pole.

Traditionally DOs have been limited to being OMM practioners and Family Practice physicians for most of our existence as a profession, its mostly in the last 20 years or so where we started breaking into all of the different specialties of medicine, started appearing at academic medical centers.

I think you greatly overestimate how much DO PD's will care that MD students are applying to their residency. Tons of these guys/gals have been discriminated by MDs their entire careers. They are probably chomping at the bit to return the favor.

 

[LookOutFox]

I mean, will we really suffer much over the loss of a few IM & FM positions in ND? Or are we sure that some specialty positions are at serious risk?

I've heard rumors that most if not all of the DO ophthalmology programs will not survive the merger.

 

[NurWollen]

I mean, will we really suffer much over the loss of a few IM & FM positions in ND? Or are we sure that some specialty positions are at serious risk?

I think most IM and FM programs will be just fine. After all, a lot of ACGME programs in these specialties are in community hospitals in Nowhere, USA already.

I've heard of a couple of EM programs so far either closing or just switching to an MD school sponsor. I think I heard an ENT program is calling it quits too. Honestly though a lot of DO programs open and close each year anyway. I don't think anything earth-shaking is happening so far with the merger as far as programs closing.

 

[user3]

I've heard rumors that most if not all of the DO ophthalmology programs will not survive the merger.

I wonder if that will also be the case with AOA gas.

 

[Dharma]

Are you me?

I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together

 

[MiaMia14]

Obviously this is mostly just speculation, but i think the programs that are going to be harder hit at the procedural specialties. There are acgme requirements about how many of each procedure you have to have in residency and if the residents aren't going to be able to get the numbers, the residency won't survive. I applied to both DO and MD OB programs last year and there was a noticeable difference in how busy the residents were at the different types of programs. The DO programs tend to be in smaller community hospitals and are going to have a harder time getting the numbers.

 

[doapplicant2015]

The worst day in medical school and residency is better than the best day working as a drone for Amazon.com:

While I'm sure Amazon is unique in certain aspects, these types of cultures are not uncommon in big business

Have fun studying guys and gals

 

[IslandStyle808]

+1+1+1

Shh... Don't give away how old you are...

 

[yanks26dmb]

DO program directors have a box to check that says whether or not their program has a preference for DO's. DO's wont automatically be low man on the totem pole at every former AOA residency.

 

[NurWollen]

DO program directors have a box to check that says whether or not their program has a preference for DO's. DO's wont automatically be low man on the totem pole at every former AOA residency.

Wait, really?

 

[67552931811]

.

 

[Shinobiz11]

So what's the deal with COMLEX. A lot of DO friendly places take it (depending on specialty) and others don't. Is there a way to figure out which places prefer what. For example, I heard that most PMR programs don't need a USMLE. Obviously the more competitive places will. Thoughts?

 

[DopaDO]

So what's the deal with COMLEX. A lot of DO friendly places take it (depending on specialty) and others don't. Is there a way to figure out which places prefer what. For example, I heard that most PMR programs don't need a USMLE. Obviously the more competitive places will. Thoughts?

Every US medical Student (except MAYBE military) should take step 1 regardless of specialty. You are shortchanging and closing doors in every specialty if you dont

 

[GUH]

Exactly. I'm in my 30s and in the first 20 minutes of orientation I saw medCOM-high in full effect. Chuckled to myself smh and was glad I had a wife and kid to go home to. Yeah, I talked to folks who sat around me and made a few friends, but basically ignored hundreds of others. Not to be mean, but mostly bc I just didn't have the time or energy to play Bayside High w Slater, Kelly, and Screech. High school was awesome... the first time it happened in the 90s; no need for second acts.

Kids.

High school in the 90's? You've certainly dated yourself as a nontrad, @Dharma !

 

[GUH]

Every US medical Student (except MAYBE military) should take step 1 regardless of specialty. You are shortchanging and closing doors in every specialty if you dont

Nope. There is no point in taking USMLE if you have a fair chance of failing it, which some DO's do every year I've seen in spite of marginal NBME scores. What do you think looks worse - COMLEX only or COMLEX with a repeated Step 1?

 

[Dharma]

High school in the 90's? You've certainly dated yourself as a nontrad, @Dharma !

Oh I dated more than myself in the 90s Certainly, indeed!

 

[IslandStyle808]

So what's the deal with COMLEX. A lot of DO friendly places take it (depending on specialty) and others don't. Is there a way to figure out which places prefer what. For example, I heard that most PMR programs don't need a USMLE. Obviously the more competitive places will. Thoughts?

Yeah, PM&R is one of those rare exceptions where DOs have pretty much equal shot at virtually all ACGME programs. The NRMP interview graph show they are equally willing to interview DO, when compared to US MD. So one can assume they are on the ball with interpreting COMLEX scores.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Wait, really?

I went to an EM club meet up yesterday and was told this by the presenter.

 

[Shinobiz11]

DO program directors have a box to check that says whether or not their program has a preference for DO's. DO's wont automatically be low man on the totem pole at every former AOA residency.

Can you explain this like I'm five?

 

[NurWollen]

I went to an EM club meet up yesterday and was told this by the presenter.

Can you explain this like I'm five?

And thus was born SDN's mythical " DO box"