So very very very PAINFUL

[Winged Scapula]

I'd like to remind users (and lurkers) that discussions in this forum are supposed to be professional and refrain from attacks or insults.

Mature disagreements are tolerated and even welcomed. However, this thread has taken a turn for the worse. I would encourage users to either desist the current line of posting or to take it to PMs or emails. Otherwise, the thread no longer serves it's purpose and will be closed.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

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[Orange Julius]

Interesting replies. Thanks to all those with encouraging words of solidarity. Sometimes hearing that you're not the only one finding it painful, helps. I'm a little surprized to find my mailbox full of PM's all asking pretty much the same thing: What program are you at, and did you get any inkling (or overt admission) when interviewing that the program was not 80 hour compliant. Rather than answering them individually, I'll just answer them here.

I'm not going to say where I am. But I'll anwer the other question.

I never expected to work an 80 hour week. The program at my medschool put up a great show of being compliant but I knew a lot of the residents pretty well and was aware of what the deal really was. I worked outrageous hours on my Sub-I's to see if I had the endurance and was able to do it. Yes, when I interviewed here the program - like much all the programs I interviewed at - made a big deal of how compliant they were.

About the work hours. Yes they're long. I've never felt like I couldn't do them. I'm pretty sure I could do even longer hours. But that would really suck.

What has surprized me has been that as time goes on, yes, we all get more efficient which makes things easier. But the rush of the first couple of months goes and the fatigue, sleep loss accumulate, and if anything....well it really doesn't get LESS painful.

I knew that as a surgical intern I would be overworked and underpaid. It came as no surprize. So why my origional post. No particular reason. Just venting. It's like when you approach a patient an tell them you're going to do something that will be painful. You tell them to brace themselves and you do what you got to do. They yell out in pain. What the hell are they yelling for? They KNEW it would be painful. Well it's a bit like that with internship. Sure you think you know what you're in for but you don't really know until it hits you.

120 is VERY painful. 110+ is VERY painful. 100+ is VERY painful.

80 hours? Less painful? I don't know. I can't comment on what I havn't experienced.

Good luck.

 

[shag]

The 80 hr week can be painful as well...

We are now expected to cram 120 hrs worth of work into 80 hrs. If you go over because of late cases as a senior or late admits/floor work as a junior, you are called "inefficient".

If you report honestly (which I do), then you can expect to be chastised... "you do want to graduate from an accredited program, don't you".

bitch bitch, moan moan; Back to work...

 

[Dr. V]

Dang, I'm pretty lucky I guess.

The number 1 thing I looked for in a residency program was honesty. I was OK with them saying they didn't keep the 80 hour week, what I was not OK with was the program saying they did and the residents saying they didn't.

I can honestly say that at my residency program we are very, very compliant with the 80 hour work week. I have NEVER been over during the month. Sure I had a hundred hour week or two, but I also had a couple of 60 hour weeks and it averaged out for the month.

We get 2 weekends completely off a month too with the exception of 1 month were we get 1 weekend off and at least 2 other weekend days but not the entire weekend. We are all in the OR most every day.

Hell I disagree with the 80 hour week cause sometimes I am forced to go home when I feel fine and could finish my shift because of a quiet night the night before. I wish that were left up to our discretion and we could stay if we got sleep the night before but it's not.

Our PD is very adimant that we stay in compliance too with absolutely positively no lying about it.

I can honestly say I am having an awesome year with great case numbers and I am only an intern.

 

[amarula]

I disagree that switching out of General Surgery makes you a failure. It just means that you realize that something about General Surgery makes it a field that does not value the qualities that you have as a person/physician. Some people become excellent General Surgeons, no doubt. But you cannot deny that there is a culture about General Surgery residency that forces certain personality types / people with differing priorities out of the field.

Perhaps the field has to change-- or the culture around the field. If there were more interns per program, the work on the floor (which has very little educational value and is mostly scut) would lessen. If programs hired more PAs/NPs who are perfectly capable of doing floor work to 'assist' the residents, then the residents may learn more from their floor experiences and have more time to spend learning what they are supposed to be learning in the OR. I am a peds intern but I am married to a gen surg intern and I certainly have a lot more time to listen to his pain than he has to listen to mine. (Although I dn't have nearly as much pain-- mostly just dealing with crazy parents or crazy adolescents. The babies are the best.)