So what are you doing with all that money ?

[cyanide12345678]

Even with a moonlighting income coming in as a PGY3, it's starting to feel like a lot of money. Infact, I made a 16k payment on my loans a few days ago. All this money feels like monopoly money, electronically enters the bank, electronically leaves it.

Some of you guys are working for a lot longer than me (I'm only just about to graduate this june). I can't even imagine having a family income of 500k next year. So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

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[TooMuchResearch]

House cleaner, but we had one intermittently in residency.
Also, bought a bigger house... before the loans were all paid off, but it was the right choice for us and I think will continue to be the right choice.
Other than that, mostly paying down debt and maxing out 401ks and Roth IRAs.

 

[Tenk]

I wonder this myself. I’m about to pay off my loans this month which was $400,000 when you include my wife’s and I’m only a PGY-7. I was dumping roughly half my pay into loans. I guess I’m just gonna invest that since I already feel like I live a great life? Honestly if you don’t live like a 1%er, you’ll just be floating in ridiculous sums of money. I literally just buy whatever I want whenever I want which beyond computers, snowboards and guns, really isn’t much!

 

[s109442]

I bought furniture for my lake house, first summer coming up. Bought myself a peloton bike, a Glock 20, and wife and I did 18 days at Shangri La in Boracay in January, Money well spent! investing the rest in Asian equities for the long term.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

First year attending. Got new furniture and new electronics. Going on one extra vacation this year. Otherwise, the rest is going to investing. Plan to be financially independent by 38.

 

[hundreddaysoff]

So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

First-year attending here and the wife just had a kid. Felt like we were finally in a good place for that. Depending on your viewpoint, he might've cost us $50K (~10K out of pocket + 40K month of lost work). So remember to budget for that if you're on the market.

Otherwise, all I really want is freedom +/- some land free and clear. So putting ~70% of gross into 401(k), CBP, and house fund.

 

[namethatsmell]

Plan to be financially independent by 38.

That’s an impressive goal, and I love it.

How many years away till 38 and what’s your plan to reach FI?

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

I dunno man, all I can say is it seems I should have a lot more than I actually do...

Even with a moonlighting income coming in as a PGY3, it's starting to feel like a lot of money. Infact, I made a 16k payment on my loans a few days ago. All this money feels like monopoly money, electronically enters the bank, electronically leaves it.

Some of you guys are working for a lot longer than me (I'm only just about to graduate this june). I can't even imagine having a family income of 500k next year. So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

 

[Zebra Hunter]

That’s an impressive goal, and I love it.

How many years away till 38 and what’s your plan to reach FI?

9 more years. Probably too aggressive of a goal, but I plan to stay under $80k for expenses per year which I am on pace to be well under my first year out. I have a relatively aggressive portfolio. Expecting to continue making around $250k post taxes. I also am lucky enough to have no debt. Kids would obviously throw a wrench in this, but I don’t expect to have any of those in the foreseeable future.

 

[Doctor-S]

So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

I'm making sure I fully fund myself for ALL of my future retirement first ... and that includes any long-term health care services I may (or may not) need as I grow older.

About 12 years ago, my big splurge was buying a large waterfront home for all cash upfront - but I had to save money for a while before that was possible. I have paid off all of my student loans.

The things in life that bring me the most happiness are mostly "free" things, such as going to the beach, hiking in the wilderness, listening to music, cooking at home, and spending quality time with my friends and loved ones.

To be honest ... being comfortably retired and financially independent is still the very best luxurious "investment" for me.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I wonder this myself. I’m about to pay off my loans this month which was $400,000 when you include my wife’s and I’m only a PGY-7. I was dumping roughly half my pay into loans. I guess I’m just gonna invest that since I already feel like I live a great life? Honestly if you don’t live like a 1%er, you’ll just be floating in ridiculous sums of money. I literally just buy whatever I want whenever I want which beyond computers, snowboards and guns, really isn’t much!

Exactly what I was saying too. I can probably pay off loans in a year. Pay off mortgage in 2-3 years. After that, other than investing, there is not much else left. I'll have a 2 doctor household, we will easily be at 600k+ gross annual income. Sure we can save for college funds, 401s. But that still leaves a crap tonne of money. I'm beginning to think salary isn't as important as I initially thought when I started job hunting.

 

[filhodeinferno]

My first year out I traveled a ton. Went on trips to Mexico x 2, Spain/Portugal, Iceland/Denmark, Miami, Caribbean Cruise, Colorado Skiing. I also spend a crap ton of money on loans.

 

[anbuitachi]

depends on situation. not an attending yet but last year resident. ive talked to multiple attendings who say lifestyle doesn't change that much afterwards but everything is more expensive. instead of buying the 100$ mattress, you are buying the 500$ mattress. with that said, the most expensive costs seem to be rent/mortgage (4k a month for a 1Br here is 50k a year post tax, which is about 25% of post tax salary). a lot are also starting families and are hiring full time nannies (3k a month, so ~35k a year), couple of vacations a year and 100k post tax money is gone. part of the rest goes toward saving/retirement/loans. As kids get older, a lot of attendings send them to private school. One attending i know has 3 young kids, all in private elementary schools, costing 40k a year each. That's 120k post tax. She said she has no savings

 

[Groove]

Even with a moonlighting income coming in as a PGY3, it's starting to feel like a lot of money. Infact, I made a 16k payment on my loans a few days ago. All this money feels like monopoly money, electronically enters the bank, electronically leaves it.

Some of you guys are working for a lot longer than me (I'm only just about to graduate this june). I can't even imagine having a family income of 500k next year. So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

Watch out for that income tax if you're a 1099 and especially if you take a large sign on bonus for your first gig. They probably won't make you do quarterly taxes your first year out unless you were making a killing moonlighting your last year. It was a huge shocker to me when I realized just how much I owed to Uncle Sam for that first tax year. I got used to having loads of cash in my bank account and didn't do a very good job taking the income tax portion out and putting it into a separate account. I scrambled and it took me a little while to catch up during my 2nd year out. After that, I got used to making large payments on my loans. When they were paid off, I got used to making large payments on my SEP and non tax deferred retirement vehicles. Even with the payments, I splurged on a big house, furniture, nice ride and take plenty of nice vacations. Everything in moderation but you're right....you should have plenty of money left over if you're careful with it.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

depends on situation. not an attending yet but last year resident. ive talked to multiple attendings who say lifestyle doesn't change that much afterwards but everything is more expensive. instead of buying the 100$ mattress, you are buying the 500$ mattress. with that said, the most expensive costs seem to be rent/mortgage (4k a month for a 1Br here is 50k a year post tax, which is about 25% of post tax salary). a lot are also starting families and are hiring full time nannies (3k a month, so ~35k a year), couple of vacations a year and 100k post tax money is gone. part of the rest goes toward saving/retirement/loans. As kids get older, a lot of attendings send them to private school. One attending i know has 3 young kids, all in private elementary schools, costing 40k a year each. That's 120k post tax. She said she has no savings

Good point, we bought a nearly $3000 bed. I sleep great, totally worth it.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Watch out for that income tax if you're a 1099 and especially if you take a large sign on bonus for your first gig. They probably won't make you do quarterly taxes your first year out unless you were making a killing moonlighting your last year.

I'm making an LLC, will have all 1099 income go to a separate business account. Then those business accounts will be linked to quick books which will estimate my quarterly taxes automatically.

 

[deleted497653]

Yeah as noted above, make quarterly payments. You will owe taxes otherwise and that’s no fun.

As far as “a lot of money” not really unless you have a spouse that makes a decent salary....You’ll be comfortable but not necessarily rich.

If you have kids, expect that your money will be used up faster than you can make it. Also there will be childcare expenses and if you choose private school... paying per child is costly. Also for those who cut back on work after having a kid (I did) you’ll make less money obviously so plan ahead.

Mortgage is expensive too but worth it to me and feel that it’s a necessary debt though I don’t consider it an investment. Just don’t buy too expensive of a house.

Personally, paid off $160000 of a $192000 student debt within first 2 years out of residency and people are always impressed but I tell them it’s because I was poor for two years. Didn’t just happen.

 

[Tenk]

Yeah as noted above, make quarterly payments. You will owe taxes otherwise and that’s no fun.

As far as “a lot of money” not really unless you have a spouse that makes a decent salary....You’ll be comfortable but not necessarily rich.

If you have kids, expect that your money will be used up faster than you can make it. Also there will be childcare expenses and if you choose private school... paying per child is costly. Also for those who cut back on work after having a kid (I did) you’ll make less money obviously so plan ahead.

Mortgage is expensive too but worth it to me and feel that it’s a necessary debt though I don’t consider it an investment. Just don’t buy too expensive of a house.

Personally, paid off $160000 of a $192000 student debt within first 2 years out of residency and people are always impressed but I tell them it’s because I was poor for two years. Didn’t just happen.

Except we are rich. We are near/at the top 1% of earners in the country. That makes us rich. You are just used to living this way so when you see the ultra rich it makes you feel poor. I grew up poor and will never forget what that feels like. Make no mistake about it, you are rich.

 

[Apollyon]

Except we are rich. We are near/at the top 1% of earners in the country. That makes us rich. You are just used to living this way so when you see the ultra rich it makes you feel poor. I grew up poor and will never forget what that feels like. Make no mistake about it, you are rich.

Except for one reason: why will the best a doctor or lawyer be is upper middle class? Because we have to go to work every day. We don't work, we don't get paid. Once you have FI, then you are rich. I'll give you that.

 

[deleted497653]

Not my definition of rich... didn’t grow up with money either. Agree with Apollyon

 

[Tenk]

Except for one reason: why will the best a doctor or lawyer be is upper middle class? Because we have to go to work every day. We don't work, we don't get paid. Once you have FI, then you are rich. I'll give you that.

Again, it is all about perspective. I have lived in some really ****ty areas in this country that probably 99% of you wouldn’t even drive through. We couldn’t even afford to go to a freaking McDonald’s. Now I can go eat a steak dinner at some fancy restaurant every single freaking night if I want to.

If you (or anyone reading this) doesn’t consider being in the top % of earners in this country makes you rich, then honestly I feel pity for you because you really have no idea how good you have it compared to the rest of the population or the patients you see in the ED.

You’re all rich af and you don’t even know it because you’re too busy looking at what you don’t have instead of what you do have.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Invest. Invest. Invest.

I live a comfortable lifestyle, but don't really buy anything flashy. I have a decent house but not a mansion. But I will retire, early, very comfortably which was always my goal when this whole thing started.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Again, it is all about perspective. I have lived in some really ****ty areas in this country that probably 99% of you wouldn’t even drive through. We couldn’t even afford to go to a freaking McDonald’s. Now I can go eat a steak dinner at some fancy restaurant every single freaking night if I want to.

If you (or anyone reading this) doesn’t consider being in the top % of earners in this country makes you rich, then honestly I feel pity for you because you really have no idea how good you have it compared to the rest of the population or the patients you see in the ED.

You’re all rich af and you don’t even know it because you’re too busy looking at what you don’t have instead of what you do have.

Count me in as a member of the "grew up poor" club. Makes it easy now to live like an upper middle class person and still feel rich af while banking money to retire.

 

[namethatsmell]

After a certain point, it doesn’t matter what you make. What matters is how much you save.

Going on a trip to a bucket list destination doesn’t make me feel rich, it makes me feel insanely lucky.

What makes me feel well off is when I can contribute meaningful cash towards retirement/early FI. I’m a big believer in using your money to pay yourself first. Short of becoming your own boss or inheriting a fortune it’s the best way to gain control your life.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Even with a moonlighting income coming in as a PGY3, it's starting to feel like a lot of money. Infact, I made a 16k payment on my loans a few days ago. All this money feels like monopoly money, electronically enters the bank, electronically leaves it.

Some of you guys are working for a lot longer than me (I'm only just about to graduate this june). I can't even imagine having a family income of 500k next year. So what are some of the luxuries you guys are splurging on that you think are well worth it?

I know this thread is about luxuries but I want to make sure you have your financial house in order.

Before graduating, you need to have the following:
-Individual disability insurance (maxed to whatever they will allow)
-Individual life insurance (TERM only - not universal, not variable, not whole - no matter what anyone else says; 1.5-3 million 20-30 yr term depending on how many dependents you have is probably reasonable)
-Refinance loans if not staying 501c3 (usually academic)
-Hopefully you've been doing a Roth IRA for at least one year during residency and contributing something to your 401k/403b (when we were residents we contributed up to the match level)
-Read "The White Coat Investor", then start reading his blog and forums

I'm amazed how many attendings I know at my level of income can't seem to get their financial s*** together. If you are a 1099 independent contractor next year, open a solo 401k and max it out ($55k) and continue to do [backdoor] Roth IRA contributions. After that, it's debatable what comes next - do you pay off loans? do you open a taxable account? do you save for a down payment? All reasonable options probably - depends on interest rates, expected returns, emotions, etc. What is NOT a reasonable option is to buy an expensive car, or a boat, an expensive doctor house you can't afford, or take 5 10k vacations.

In my personal situation as a 2nd year attending (PGY6) we've done the following:
-Killed my med school loan (~$220k balance at med school graduation)
-Roth IRA x 3 yrs of residency and the 2 yrs since
-Maxed my solo 401k ($55k) x 2 yrs and her 403b
-Went on some really nice vacations to Europe, Hawaii, Skiing
-Ate some really nice meals at fancy restaurants

Also I second the cleaning service. So nice coming home to a spotless living space.

Other luxuries:
-Dog
-Good cookware
-Good knives
-Good wine/beer

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I'm making an LLC, will have all 1099 income go to a separate business account. Then those business accounts will be linked to quick books which will estimate my quarterly taxes automatically.

Two mistakes here:
1) Forming an LLC. Almost no reason for an ER doc to form an LLC. There is no legal benefit and likely very little tax benefit in exchange for much increased complexity
2) Not hiring an accountant to help you out with the 1099 taxes; at least for the first couple of years.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Two mistakes here:
1) Forming an LLC. Almost no reason for an ER doc to form an LLC. There is no legal benefit and likely very little tax benefit in exchange for much increased complexity
2) Not hiring an accountant to help you out with the 1099 taxes; at least for the first couple of years.

Actually had an accountant do my taxes this year. The QuickBooks is for myself for tracking expenses. Worth 10/month.

I know there is minimal benefit in LLC, but in my mind, it makes a business legit. The complexity of taxation doesn't change much because I'll still be taxed as a sole proprietor. Having a completely separate business credit card and Bank account is well worth the $99 I spent to form the LLC. Just never felt right about deducting the cost of a meal paid from a personal account and claiming it a business expense. Instead, everything that I feel is reasonable business related, goes straight on the business account from now onwards, making deductions easier as tracking expenses becomes easier. Plus not to mention the $250k deduction on my state tax that I will make next year for starting a new business that $99 dollars gets me maybe 12k saved in state taxes next year. Cheers

Also done with disability insurance. 0 dependents so no life insurance. IRA account is set and being funded. 403 is maxed to employee contribution. Loans will hopefully be gone in 16 months.

 

[miacomet]

Invest. Invest. Invest.

I live a comfortable lifestyle, but don't really buy anything flashy. I have a decent house but not a mansion. But I will retire, early, very comfortably which was always my goal when this whole thing started.

How early, Gamer, and what's your goal? You seem super happy in EM.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

How early, Gamer, and what's your goal? You seem super happy in EM.

Oh I am, but I REALLY want to golf everyday, and having to work is the only thing that stands in my way. Hahaha.

I haven't decided exactly when I'll fully walk away. I should be able to go to part time in my fifties if I want to, but I'm not sure if I will, all depends on how much I still enjoy it. Who knows where healthcare will be in the next decade or two. Maybe its easier to practice medicine in the US then, maybe its far worse. I just want to be able to have the option to retire early and get out if I decide too, but there's a good chance I won't and I'll keep working to 60, at least in some part time fashion. I definitely have ZERO intention of working past 60, I want at least 20 years of the advantage of teeing off from the senior tees.

 

[deleted547339]

Eh, I don’t feel that rich. First year attending in academics making high 200s, living off about 80k and putting about half of that into rent. Paid a lot in taxes. We’re saving 33% for retirement. Tithe. Saving the rest for a home down payment. I suspect once were in a home, we’ll continue our current lifestyle and pay off the house fairly quickly. Also, kids aren’t cheap. Seems like every month there are $250-1000 in kids expenses (diapers, furniture, clothes, etc).

 

[anbuitachi]

Except we are rich. We are near/at the top 1% of earners in the country. That makes us rich. You are just used to living this way so when you see the ultra rich it makes you feel poor. I grew up poor and will never forget what that feels like. Make no mistake about it, you are rich.

That is misleading. how rich you are should be based on how much money youve earned, not how much you earn per year. Its an OK way to generalize in surveys and stuff cause its complicated to get into details, but on forums like these id like to differentiate. We start at a very low networth. We dont start accumulating til our mid 30s, some even later depending on how much loans you have/length of residency. Just because you earn 300k doesn't mean you are rich, you are still far behind the programmers making 100k since age 21 with only college debt.

1% pretty much based on annual income in most forms of news reports, but 1% for doctors from annual income is far different from ibanker/business, even lawyers (only 3 yr law school w no residency). their net worth is FAR higher than ours despite being close to the 1%

 

[miacomet]

That is misleading. how rich you are should be based on how much money youve earned, not how much you earn per year. Its an OK way to generalize in surveys and stuff cause its complicated to get into details, but on forums like these id like to differentiate. We start at a very low networth. We dont start accumulating til our mid 30s, some even later depending on how much loans you have/length of residency. Just because you earn 300k doesn't mean you are rich, you are still far behind the programmers making 100k since age 21 with only college debt.

1% pretty much based on annual income in most forms of news reports, but 1% for doctors from annual income is far different from ibanker/business, even lawyers (only 3 yr law school w no residency). their net worth is FAR higher than ours despite being close to the 1%

I don't think how much money you have earned is that relevant- I think net worth is the most relevant factor in wealth. Some people have earned nothing and have high net worth. Their previous earnings, or lack thereof, are irrelevant.

 

[Mad Jack]

First year attending. Got new furniture and new electronics. Going on one extra vacation this year. Otherwise, the rest is going to investing. Plan to be financially independent by 38.

Meanwhile I'll be entering practice at 37

 

[anbuitachi]

I don't think how much money you have earned is that relevant- I think net worth is the most relevant factor in wealth. Some people have earned nothing and have high net worth. Their previous earnings, or lack thereof, are irrelevant.

its what i meant. by how much youve earned, i dont mean earning 300k a year and spending 500k a year. i meant assuming you are saving some money..
but yes basically networth = asset - liabilities. i would say majority of first year attendings have networths in the negatives

 

[miacomet]

Meanwhile I'll be entering practice at 37

Yes, that situation is terrible. If I'd entered practice five or six years earlier, all would be well. In retrospect, not worth it.

 

[deleted109597]

Building a pool. Running out of pages in my passport for stamps. Finally getting a new vehicle after 10 years.

 

[EctopicFetus]

To be a true 1%er net worth matters. That number is somewhere between 9 and 14m depending on year and source.

The term you guys are looking for is the working rich. Doctors and most lawyers who do fairly well are the working rich. Meaning you can have that steak dinner and sweet car as long as you keep working.

The real rich people are the net worth 1%ers who make more from their investments that we do working a “rich” job.

I grew up poor. Government cheese and the whole bit. I don’t feel rich as much as I feel lucky. I can go to any restaurant in America and order whatever I want and not think about it.

I don’t drink wine much so I don’t have to worry about accidentally ordering a 10k bottle of wine.

I don’t feel rich because I save a lot I have kids and I value travel and experiences.

That being said I earn well and have been out of residency 10 or so years and there aren’t a lot of wants left in the under 1k realm. If I want to buy an expensive car my guilt overrides me as I want to further fund my kids 529s and my goal was fi by 51 and I’m tracking for 4-5 years less than that and I’m talking fatfire level FI due to some breaks (no inheritance). That being said I think I’ll work til 60 or so if things stay decent.

 

[Tenk]

That is misleading. how rich you are should be based on how much money youve earned, not how much you earn per year. Its an OK way to generalize in surveys and stuff cause its complicated to get into details, but on forums like these id like to differentiate. We start at a very low networth. We dont start accumulating til our mid 30s, some even later depending on how much loans you have/length of residency. Just because you earn 300k doesn't mean you are rich, you are still far behind the programmers making 100k since age 21 with only college debt.

1% pretty much based on annual income in most forms of news reports, but 1% for doctors from annual income is far different from ibanker/business, even lawyers (only 3 yr law school w no residency). their net worth is FAR higher than ours despite being close to the 1%

If you define “rich” as pure net worth then yes EM doctors start late and catch up late. That’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about the lifestyle. Even starting with near nothing, when you get to the realm of $400,000+ net worth is largely irrelevant. Why? Because your first year as an attending you can buy a brand new house, a brand new truck, a brand new computer, a brand new snowboard, a brand new bed, a brand new table, brand new chairs, a brand new couch, a brand new tv, brand new guns, and a brand new wardrobe. I know because I did all those things.

Very few professions can do all that. Ours can.

 

[miacomet]

If you define “rich” as pure net worth then yes EM doctors start late and catch up late. That’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about the lifestyle. Even starting with near nothing, when you get to the realm of $400,000+ net worth is largely irrelevant. Why? Because your first year as an attending you can buy a brand new house, a brand new truck, a brand new computer, a brand new snowboard, a brand new bed, a brand new table, brand new chairs, a brand new couch, a brand new tv, brand new guns, and a brand new wardrobe. I know because I did all those things.

Very few professions can do all that. Ours can.

Great for materialism and status, then, but perhaps not so great for wealth accumulation or lifestyle; I prefer the latter.

I don't feel lucky or unlucky. My parents definitely had better careers and lifestyles since housing and healthcare were much cheaper and there were better and broader career opportunities, and the physicians in my family from prior generations practiced in the golden age of medicine.

First generation medicine/college folks always seem happy with EM. I would say I see more of the negatives than the positives. But the world has changed and it's not the seventies with cheap rent, pensions, and cheap health insurance.

 

[anbuitachi]

If you define “rich” as pure net worth then yes EM doctors start late and catch up late. That’s not what I was talking about. I was talking about the lifestyle. Even starting with near nothing, when you get to the realm of $400,000+ net worth is largely irrelevant. Why? Because your first year as an attending you can buy a brand new house, a brand new truck, a brand new computer, a brand new snowboard, a brand new bed, a brand new table, brand new chairs, a brand new couch, a brand new tv, brand new guns, and a brand new wardrobe. I know because I did all those things.

Very few professions can do all that. Ours can.

well i was referring to your 1% statement. in that post it seemed like you used the 1% to define rich. If you are saying being able to buy a new house/truk/computer means you are rich then sure almost all of us are rich. it all depends on how you define it. in the end it doesn't even matter cause it's all about YOU and your feelings and perspective.

A huge part of feeling rich has to do with our surroundings, like so much of other things we do. there will ALWAYS be poorer, sicker, unluckier people to compare yourself to, but does that make us feel better? maybe a few of us, but probably not the majority. that's why i hate it when people say, oh your countries GDP/capita is XYZ times higher than this poor as hell country in africa GDP/capita, therefore stop complaining. Yet we have one of the highest depression/suicide rates, and we aren't happier than 3rd world countries. It's the same thing in medicine.

Most of us in medicine are highly intelligent, accomplished, type A students/workers that are likely to be successive in other fields as well. Our average IQ is FAR above the median. Many of us also come from middle/mid-upper families. there is no point to compare yourself to the poorest of the poor, the unluckiest of the unlucky.

There's a huge difference between being in top 1% rich, and feeling rich.

 

[e30ftw]

If one cannot feel rich in the 1%, money is not the problem.

 

[deleted109597]

If one cannot feel rich in the 1%, money is not the problem.

But none of us are in the 1% by net worth. Well, maybe WCI.

 

[Hamhock]

But none of us are in the 1% by net worth. Well, maybe WCI.

Gosh, I would hope SOME of us are...it seems the 1% net worth floor is 10 million (admittedly, that's from just a quick Google).

Starting at age 30, I would hope the FI-minded EM doc net worth is 500k by 35 and then 1.5 million by age 40. No one knows how the market will go, but for docs before us, it's not unreasonable to think that by putting away $200K per year for 20 years into 80% VTSAX/20% bond fund, (s)he would be near 10 million at age 60.

Of course, that's for the doc who doesn't have a bunch of kids, toys early in life, student loan payments, and divorces...but there must be SOME of us like this, no?

HH

 

[thegenius]

What do I do with the extra money?

Nothing, because I live in the Bay Area.

What do I do with the extra money?

I go to my next shift

 

[John Red]

MS4 here so I’ve got miles to go before I sleep. That being said I share the same mindset that many in this thread do regarding financial planning and independence. However, there is something to be said about getting too busy making a life that you forget to live one no? I mean paying off debt, maxing retirement accounts, and FI sounds great! But what good is FI and 10m in the bank if I never traveled the world or splurged on that nice family vacation or balled out for the nice dinner? Idk maybe this damn rotation (hospice patients) is getting to me, but none of those patients ever talk about having more in their accounts. It’s always about experiences they had or wished they would have had.

 

[doctalaughs]

Gosh, I would hope SOME of us are...it seems the 1% net worth floor is 10 million (admittedly, that's from just a quick Google).

Starting at age 30, I would hope the FI-minded EM doc net worth is 500k by 35 and then 1.5 million by age 40. No one knows how the market will go, but for docs before us, it's not unreasonable to think that by putting away $200K per year for 20 years into 80% VTSAX/20% bond fund, (s)he would be near 10 million at age 60.

Of course, that's for the doc who doesn't have a bunch of kids, toys early in life, student loan payments, and divorces...but there must be SOME of us like this, no?

HH

I don’t think many doctors hit the 10 mill mark. A few, but not a lot.

Just painful how much work that entails - always enticing to “cut back” the hours one you hit the 3, 5, 6 mill mark since it’s “enough”.

Medicine is tough. Sure, we do well compared to most Americans but we work for it. The truly rich are either inherited wealth, tons of money young (think the wall street era, hedge fund managers, law partners at top firms and CEOs who bank 10s of millions per year). Then once you hit that amount of wealth it’s just a matter of sitting back and letting passive income do the rest.

 

[Tenk]

Great for materialism and status, then, but perhaps not so great for wealth accumulation or lifestyle; I prefer the latter.

I don't feel lucky or unlucky. My parents definitely had better careers and lifestyles since housing and healthcare were much cheaper and there were better and broader career opportunities, and the physicians in my family from prior generations practiced in the golden age of medicine.

First generation medicine/college folks always seem happy with EM. I would say I see more of the negatives than the positives. But the world has changed and it's not the seventies with cheap rent, pensions, and cheap health insurance.

I wish I could hand you my memories. Of the people trying to break into our apartment when it was just me and my sister home. Of our car stereo being jacked 3 separate times when we walked out into the parking lot and saw our windshield shattered. Of the gun shots that went off in my neighborhood. Of the physical and mental abuse I sustained growing up.

You don’t consider yourself lucky or unlucky growing up in a multi generation physician household? You have no idea. You’re about as clueless on the topic as most of our patients are about their health.

 

[Tenk]

well i was referring to your 1% statement. in that post it seemed like you used the 1% to define rich. If you are saying being able to buy a new house/truk/computer means you are rich then sure almost all of us are rich. it all depends on how you define it. in the end it doesn't even matter cause it's all about YOU and your feelings and perspective.

A huge part of feeling rich has to do with our surroundings, like so much of other things we do. there will ALWAYS be poorer, sicker, unluckier people to compare yourself to, but does that make us feel better? maybe a few of us, but probably not the majority. that's why i hate it when people say, oh your countries GDP/capita is XYZ times higher than this poor as hell country in africa GDP/capita, therefore stop complaining. Yet we have one of the highest depression/suicide rates, and we aren't happier than 3rd world countries. It's the same thing in medicine.

Most of us in medicine are highly intelligent, accomplished, type A students/workers that are likely to be successive in other fields as well. Our average IQ is FAR above the median. Many of us also come from middle/mid-upper families. there is no point to compare yourself to the poorest of the poor, the unluckiest of the unlucky.

There's a huge difference between being in top 1% rich, and feeling rich.

Which is exactly why I feel pity for people that have views like you. You lack perspective. Go try to gain some. If you’re brave enough.

 

[deleted109597]

I mean, I grew up poor white trash. My father got his degree when I was in high school. My mother while I was in college. Before that, nobody on either side of the family ever went to college.
I would say I got lucky more than any privilege. And I try to keep my kids from having affluenza.
My wife, OTOH, always had a housekeeper growing up. So we have one now. Her grandfather was a doctor, her dad was a psychologist, her mother an OB/GYN NP from the days when they were much better trained. It's interesing the perspective.
I refuse to let my kids go to private school. I don't think they need it, and if our school was unsafe, we would move.

 

[miacomet]

I wish I could hand you my memories. Of the people trying to break into our apartment when it was just me and my sister home. Of our car stereo being jacked 3 separate times when we walked out into the parking lot and saw our windshield shattered. Of the gun shots that went off in my neighborhood. Of the physical and mental abuse I sustained growing up.

You don’t consider yourself lucky or unlucky growing up in a multi generation physician household? You have no idea. You’re about as clueless on the topic as most of our patients are about their health.

I consider myself lucky, but I don't think we have as many options as our parents' generation, whether or not they chose to take advantage of them. The baby bust and baby boomers lived through the greatest period of wealth accumulation in our nation's history, and there were so many more jobs that were enjoyable and that paid enough to make a living wage that just don't exist anymore- publishing, media, academia etc. And we are also living in a very anti-intellectual, anti- expert era.

EM is just punching a clock with corporate overlords who tell us what to do. Not my dream. It pays the bills until we get diabetes from night shifts, I guess.

It would be nice to have the option of an enjoyable, meaningful job that paid. Just harder in our generation.