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So what jobs do you guys with dual MDs/MBAs hold?

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HenryH

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While browsing another thread, I read that someone who holds both an MD and an MBA can easily pull $250k/year. What kind of work are you doing to make this, though?
 

prominence

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While browsing another thread, I read that someone who holds both an MD and an MBA can easily pull $250k/year. What kind of work are you doing to make this, though?


i wonder the same thing. also, can you make this income in a nonclinical role?
 

nprap

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I don't think I'm answering your question, but I guess you don't really need the MD to make that money, with the MBA should be good enough.
 

mshheaddoc

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Read some of the threads in this forum and you can see some of the roles ... consultants can make that much, one who works as an admin for insurance company could pull in that much, as well as if you went into hospital admin. Or maybe you want to do equity research in the healthcare field or maybe be an entrepreneur. I could list a ton of different jobs that a quick search of MD MBA on the internet could provide you with.

I came across this article which might help you (its scientific model bored me a bit but you can get an idea of the degree). I found a few other articles but I can't access them ... but nothing of substance. I'm sure others will post.
 

FamilyMD

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Read some of the threads in this forum and you can see some of the roles ... consultants can make that much, one who works as an admin for insurance company could pull in that much, as well as if you went into hospital admin. Or maybe you want to do equity research in the healthcare field or maybe be an entrepreneur. I could list a ton of different jobs that a quick search of MD MBA on the internet could provide you with.

I came across this article which might help you (its scientific model bored me a bit but you can get an idea of the degree). I found a few other articles but I can't access them ... but nothing of substance. I'm sure others will post.

Agreed, you can find all the different roles an MD/MBA can have in past posts. For me, I am a Medical Director for an insurance company and have been starting small hosp admin roles to figure out what I want to do when I grow up. I think $250k should be thought of as a starting salary.
 

prominence

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Agreed, you can find all the different roles an MD/MBA can have in past posts. For me, I am a Medical Director for an insurance company and have been starting small hosp admin roles to figure out what I want to do when I grow up. I think $250k should be thought of as a starting salary.

what are some of you job responsibilities in the capacity of a medical director of an insurance company?
 

HenryH

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Thanks for your input, FamilyMD, and for the article link, mshheaddoc.

Are all these managerial/directorial positions competitive to obtain once you've earned an MD/MBA, or are you pretty much a "hot commodity" with qualifications like that? I guess, in other words, what I'm trying to ask is, do recent MD/MBA graduates ever have a hard time landing these $200k-and-higher jobs?

Also, are these programs super-mega competitive to get accepted to?
 

FamilyMD

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Thanks for your input, FamilyMD, and for the article link, mshheaddoc.

Are all these managerial/directorial positions competitive to obtain once you've earned an MD/MBA, or are you pretty much a "hot commodity" with qualifications like that? I guess, in other words, what I'm trying to ask is, do recent MD/MBA graduates ever have a hard time landing these $200k-and-higher jobs?

Also, are these programs super-mega competitive to get accepted to?

All these posts have been answered before, like what a med dir for insurance co. does, i've answered mult times. To answer your question, I do not think it is super hard to land a job but as I've posted before, networking will land you a job much quicker and much easier. IMHO, while degrees are important, you still have to be personable and have skills.
Yes, for now, I do believe MD/MBA's are hot b/c physicians with leadership and/or business skills are still a rarity.
 

HenryH

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Do you think they'd still be a hot commodity in, say, 2016? I'm just a college freshman now, so it would be a while before I could apply to a program like this. However, I don't want to get myself into something that "everyone else" is going to jump on over the next few years, which would send salaries plummeting.

Also, would someone with a DMD/MBA (or DDS/MBA) be considered just as competent, or is that combination more limited in opportunities that would otherwise be in abundant supply for an MD/MBA?

Thanks again...
 

beetlerum

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Thanks for your input, FamilyMD, and for the article link, mshheaddoc.

Are all these managerial/directorial positions competitive to obtain once you've earned an MD/MBA, or are you pretty much a "hot commodity" with qualifications like that? I guess, in other words, what I'm trying to ask is, do recent MD/MBA graduates ever have a hard time landing these $200k-and-higher jobs?

Also, are these programs super-mega competitive to get accepted to?

Do you mean with or without residency? FamilyMD must be talking about postresidency. Just the MD/MBA will not make it easy to get jobs making 250k. Your options will .be consulting and banking
 

FamilyMD

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Do you think they'd still be a hot commodity in, say, 2016? I'm just a college freshman now, so it would be a while before I could apply to a program like this. However, I don't want to get myself into something that "everyone else" is going to jump on over the next few years, which would send salaries plummeting.

Also, would someone with a DMD/MBA (or DDS/MBA) be considered just as competent, or is that combination more limited in opportunities that would otherwise be in abundant supply for an MD/MBA?

Thanks again...

Of course a DDS/MBA would be much more limited. They just don't have the medical knowledge to make decisions required of executive physicians. That's not to say there aren't opportunities, but those opportunities would be limited to dental things...which I just don't see much of. Remember why the MD/MBA is needed, b/c of his/her medical training, otherwise any MBA could do the job. Eac day, I have to decide whether a particular drug/test/procedure should be approved. A dentist would be clueless in that regard. Come to think of it, I've NEVER met or heard of a "executive dentist".
 

mshheaddoc

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I would think the DMD/MBA would be more in the realm of oral health. A quick search on google can provide you with quite a few surprising results. Since medicine is a little broader (body wise) it might be why you don't hear much on the DMD/MBA but there are quite a few programs out there for this. A dentist could do your job in a different context though. But since you are limiting the section of the body of course the options are limited. But many physicians use the MBA as part of their practice which I'm sure many dentists would use as well.
 

jmou123

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Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the MD/MBAs that do Ibanking and consulting make the most money? I mean potential for multi-millions
 

HenryH

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What I would be most interested in doing is business/managerial/consulting work. I see, now, how a DMD/MBA wouldn't be too broadly useful outside of a dental practice setting.

Can you get the aforementioned MD/MBA jobs without having completed a residency, or would my options be limited to consulting?
 

mshheaddoc

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Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the MD/MBAs that do Ibanking and consulting make the most money? I mean potential for multi-millions
Anyone in business in the right firm can make millions, but right off the bat, I can't see how you would. Most millions are make in investments themselves not in salary. So is it possible? Of course but you have to have shrewd business skills to navigate this salary and of course a shrewd team that you work with. I know an ex-hospital admin (not a physician) who helps turn companies around and makes quite a bit of money in his consulting business. If he put more time into it he would make a killing but he had one really big financial dealing where he sold his first consulting company and literally made tens of millions.

What I would be most interested in doing is business/managerial/consulting work. I see, now, how a DMD/MBA wouldn't be too broadly useful outside of a dental practice setting.

Can you get the aforementioned MD/MBA jobs without having completed a residency, or would my options be limited to consulting?

Without completing residency or even completing your internship year for licensure, yes your options would be very limited. What makes your "skills" so unique is being a practicing physician with knowledge of a field. While being a med students allows you to call yourself a physician its really your experience that you have which allows you to market your skills. So the more time you've spent in the medical practice (i.e. residency) the more experience you have and the more valuable you are. Now remember since there are so many fields of medicine, some are more valuable than others, but as a physician you have your broad training in med school to fall back on.

I wonder how it works if you are in a clinical position working with new products. I imagine you'd have to keep current on your respective field as well as use your previous clinical skills to help develop these new products. So the more clinical experience you have would be more beneficial in this regard. Or if you hire doctors with clinical experience as your consultants, then you wouldn't need as much experience. Do you see the differences in fields? One requires job might require more clinical experience than another so without a residency you are limited the jobs you actually have (I don't think med school can quite cut it as clinical experience in some jobs ;) ).

That is just one quick and brief example. As others have mentioned there are a tons of jobs that are physician/MBA related but it all depends on your clinical experience how broad you can actually go.
 

billydoc

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Correct me if I am wrong, but dont the MD/MBAs that do Ibanking and consulting make the most money? I mean potential for multi-millions

Just wondering...what's the need for the MD degree in such a set up?

Thanks
 

billydoc

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Hey guys!
Great forum. What do you think guys...in the combo of MD/MBA which one is more important... MD or the MBA? Lets say someone is a US IMG, but with an MBA from a well-known and respected program...Does being an IMG who did FP residency, or even a one year of an internship is a big turn off for potential employers/partners?

Thanks
 

prominence

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Does being an IMG who did FP residency, or even a one year of an internship is a big turn off for potential employers/partners?

Thanks


another great question. i hope someone answers these q's. bump.
 

billydoc

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another great question. i hope someone answers these q's. bump.

Thanks prominence. Now i just wish someone in the know would chime in on that. My guess, though, is that as long as you have legit license, and some relevant exp on the medical side the business side will matter quite a bit. After all chances are that you'll have a lot more of the administrative responsibilities than clinical once. But having MD could be a requirement where you are expected to be a liason between the clinical and the administratve duties :confused:
 

tamugreg

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My take: the MD gives you a huge advantage in I-banking or as a consultant. As a banker, you will likely be looking at a medically-related company's proposal for funding, or you may perhaps be working as an analyst in some respects of companies that make medical devices, etc. The medical knowledge in these cases is paramount. Sure any "business person" can learn about medicine and the health care system in a book, but I believe you gain a superior education by going through medical school. The 2 years you spend doing clinical rotations is enough to teach you quite a lot about what works and what doesn't work, and should you choose to go through residency and gain licensure, you will be a pot o' gold to these banking and consulting companies.

Herein lies the 'meat and potatoes' if you will. I would venture to say that one of the greatest advantages you have with the MD is not only that you can understand the project/proposal/company fundamentally, but you can easily point out the ways in which it will never work. In many cases, the value of having a consultant is to be the 'no' person. And spending time on clinical rotations can give you an unique perspective that your other business colleagues will not have, and perhaps more importantly, cannot read about in a book. The edge is huge, and from what I know of business, you need all the advantages you can get.
 

billydoc

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My take: the MD gives you a huge advantage in I-banking or as a consultant. As a banker, you will likely be looking at a medically-related company's proposal for funding, or you may perhaps be working as an analyst in some respects of companies that make medical devices, etc. The medical knowledge in these cases is paramount. Sure any "business person" can learn about medicine and the health care system in a book, but I believe you gain a superior education by going through medical school. The 2 years you spend doing clinical rotations is enough to teach you quite a lot about what works and what doesn't work, and should you choose to go through residency and gain licensure, you will be a pot o' gold to these banking and consulting companies.

Herein lies the 'meat and potatoes' if you will. I would venture to say that one of the greatest advantages you have with the MD is not only that you can understand the project/proposal/company fundamentally, but you can easily point out the ways in which it will never work. In many cases, the value of having a consultant is to be the 'no' person. And spending time on clinical rotations can give you an unique perspective that your other business colleagues will not have, and perhaps more importantly, cannot read about in a book. The edge is huge, and from what I know of business, you need all the advantages you can get.

Thanks for the info, Tamugreg. Let's say in my situation, I already have my RN for the past almost 17 yrs now. I've worked in just about every clinical setting, but also did lots of paper pushing, including utilization review, case management, QA, risk management etc. I'd say my knowledge of the health care system is quite substantial. Do you think getting an MD/MBA would be of any benefit or just get a good MBA to my RN?
Thanks
 

HenryH

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Thanks for everyone's informative replies.

Here's another good one: would a DO/MBA be privvy to the same opportunities as an MD/MBA?
 

jmou123

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Has anyone read the article on the Heme/Onc guy that got an MBA? It was in the NY Times.
 

billydoc

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Thanks for everyone's informative replies.

Here's another good one: would a DO/MBA be privvy to the same opportunities as an MD/MBA?

Just did an internet search. physician is a physician. There are lots and lots of D.Os in executive positions, medical directors and big pharm.
 

mshheaddoc

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Thanks for the info, Tamugreg. Let's say in my situation, I already have my RN for the past almost 17 yrs now. I've worked in just about every clinical setting, but also did lots of paper pushing, including utilization review, case management, QA, risk management etc. I'd say my knowledge of the health care system is quite substantial. Do you think getting an MD/MBA would be of any benefit or just get a good MBA to my RN?
Thanks
You'd probably have "some" of the same opportunities but some positions probably require (or prefer) physician training in some circumstances. I have heard of some very successful RN/MBA's in administration but I admit I haven't followed that track closely. You might look for a response on allnurses.com for that question. But I will tell you that I was advised by some if I was interested in the "business" end of medicine to just get my RN and go from there for administration, clinical studies, etc. I imagine you are limited in some cases as a nurse and also your experience in certain fields wouldn't have the same skill set of a physician so I think in those fields that rely on technical skills/information they might opt for a physician over a nurse. Although I can't really speak for that particular degree career path though :)

Thanks for everyone's informative replies.

Here's another good one: would a DO/MBA be privvy to the same opportunities as an MD/MBA?
Yes, they are basically the same degree in the United States.
 

tamugreg

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billydoc, in your situation, i do not believe the MD is necessary, unless you would like to practice medicine on the side of a business career. ultimately, your 17 years of experience in various clinical settings is substantial, and much more important than the "medical knowledge" you would learn in med school. i think you would be very attractive to consulting and/or banking firms with an MBA. it will be important for you to go to a top-tier B-school, as unfortunate as it may be, you would likely get edged out by an MD/MBA with similar credentials and experience. that is not a reflection of you or your character, simply a misconstrued belief by society whereby the MD holds more prestige. i have a lot of respect for RNs and all the crap you have to put up with.

henry -- no difference after med school, both are docs, both will do equally well in business

jmou, thanks for the article, a great read. interesting to me how supply and demand works in the medical profession. if a million docs all of a sudden went to work on wall street, the compensation would surely go way down, and many would be foreced and then eventually willingly flock back to the clinic as the salary there would likely bump in response to the scarcity of docs. i have maintained throughout my training that in 20 years we are going to be seriously hurting for medical care across the country. with the salaries primary care docs are getting paid these days, and MEDICARE CONTINUING TO CUT REIMBURSEMENT, it's no mystery to me why no one wants to do it. as smart as some politicians are, they are being really stupid about medicare.
 

wallstdoc

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Well, I havent looked around these forums for over two years now, but I thought I would chime in. I worked on Wall St. for several years before coming to medical school, so I have a little experience. I currently am getting my DO/MBA. For most sectors of banking, MD/MBA (DO/MBA whatever) is nice but not really needed. Commercial banking is mostly about laws, strategies, etc. that apply to M&A, IPO, etc. It really doesnt matter about knowing medicine for banking. Will they think that being a doctor may help you be a better banker, probably. But they dont know what we learn in medical school, and I am telling you from experience, nothing I have learned in medical school in anyway relates to investment banking in any sector. Trading same thing, you need to know even less about medicine and even finance for that matter. We use to hire math PhDs over finance people everytime (derivatives trading firm). Having said that, being a doctor you are more marketable in these fields merely as an obviously successful and driven person, not for knowing medicine. Consulting, yeah, it will probably help to be a MD/MBA. If you are a consultant in a

Where I feel the MD/MBA is really useful is healthcare administration and big pharma. Many jobs require both degrees and if they don't, they will take the MD/DO/MBA over an MBA 9 times out of 10.
 

prominence

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Well, I havent looked around these forums for over two years now, but I thought I would chime in. I worked on Wall St. for several years before coming to medical school, so I have a little experience. I currently am getting my DO/MBA. For most sectors of banking, MD/MBA (DO/MBA whatever) is nice but not really needed. Commercial banking is mostly about laws, strategies, etc. that apply to M&A, IPO, etc. It really doesnt matter about knowing medicine for banking. Will they think that being a doctor may help you be a better banker, probably. But they dont know what we learn in medical school, and I am telling you from experience, nothing I have learned in medical school in anyway relates to investment banking in any sector. Trading same thing, you need to know even less about medicine and even finance for that matter. We use to hire math PhDs over finance people everytime (derivatives trading firm). Having said that, being a doctor you are more marketable in these fields merely as an obviously successful and driven person, not for knowing medicine. Consulting, yeah, it will probably help to be a MD/MBA. If you are a consultant in a

Where I feel the MD/MBA is really useful is healthcare administration and big pharma. Many jobs require both degrees and if they don't, they will take the MD/DO/MBA over an MBA 9 times out of 10.

thanks for the useful reply.

in your opinion, what's a realistic starting salary for an MD/MBA working in "big pharma"?

also, what type of opportunities are there for MD/MBAs in "big pharma"? Is it mostly marketing and R&D?

wallstdoc, any thoughts would be much appreciated. good to see you back on SDN!
 

wallstdoc

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I dont have any experience in the pharma industry, so I can't and shouldn't speculate on what a salary would be. Sorry.
 

HenryH

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I don't mean to resurrect a slightly older thread, but I think that this will lead to even more quality contribution from members.

What kind of opportunities are open to those with a dual Pharm. D./MBA? Are salaries comparable to those earned by people with MD/DO/MBA degrees?
 

ryerle23

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I would also be really interested to know what types of positions people think PharmD/MBA's are capable of obtaining specifically in the hospital/HMO administration.
Thank you very much
 

jogurt

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Pure curiosity - do you guys think any existing MD/MBAs have extensive research experience? What kind of research would they be involved in?
 
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