So will we all grow to regret our career choice?

[TheWeeIceMan]

I would bother with pre-allo if they had a subsection for students that had gotten acceptance. Otherwise there is just way too much chaff.

Yeah, I like to post in a bunch of different forums on SDN, but pre-allo has some of the funnier troll threads/major arguments, so I stick around for the lulz.

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[anbuitachi]

Prior to starting med school I had a bunch of pretty darn terrible jobs. Medical assistant comes to mind.... these people were extremely unhappy all of them. I also worked as a teacher/tutor, which was fine and I was earning an awesome amount for the amount of work I did (very little). When I was a medical assistant I worked with a lot of doctors in a lot of different situations. Of those that I worked most with, they were all in similar professional situations, but two of them were very happy, and the other was very angry with the world. What was the difference? In my opinion, their outside priorities, and their attitude in life. All of them had come from very poor areas and had dedicated their lives to giving back to underserved communities.

I think in the end, life is what you make of it. I am extremely glad I got some perspective and worked for a few years. In the most terrible job as a doctor I will NEVER get disrespected or taken advantage of, all while making just around the poverty level, like when I was a medical assistant. I will always compare my future situations to that.

A bad attitude will follow you to whatever job you are in, and many people will just not be happy regardless of what they are doing. Finding pure motives for what you want to do will help, along with embracing change when it comes. I think like above posters have said too, making priorities outside your career is imperative for a happy life, which makes a happy doctor.

Just my two cents

I think life outside of job affects your happiness at work regardless of what you do. If you are going thru a divorce or your kid has cystic fibrosis, it just puts more pressure on every aspect of life.

 

[DrEnderW]

I would bother with pre-allo if they had a subsection for students that had gotten acceptance.

The amount of MS-0 descriptions would be more than I could bear.

 

[PL198]

how dare you all, you are lucky to be given the ability practicing the greatest profession in the history of the world. you should work 100 hours a week, get paid 40k a love it, just because of what you get to do. how dare you question your future lifestyle

not serious ^

 

[BobbyB]

Except, it is impossible to "love" your job every second of the day, all the time. No specialty is like that. Of course, when you have next to no debt, like people decades ago had, then no wonder they loved it all the time.

keep in mind they are psychiatrists so they work like 30 hr/weeks

psych is different because a lot of patients don't get cured so you see the same patients for many years. you end up playing a crucial part in a child's development (dad is a child and adolescent psychiatrist).

combine that with the fact that you can run a cash-only private practice and dodge a lot of paperwork. you can take as long as you want when doing psychotherapy and have sufficient time to deal with difficult cases.

your kids are grown up and you have a nice setup. why would you want to retire?

 

[Beargryllz]

You and everyone you love will die. You will live and have so many regrets. You will miss countless opportunities. Each day is rhythmically marking you further away into obscurity. You will be forgotten, as if you never were.

Now, despair

 

[DermViser]

keep in mind they are psychiatrists so they work like 30 hr/weeks

psych is different because a lot of patients don't get cured so you see the same patients for many years. you end up playing a crucial part in a child's development (dad is a child and adolescent psychiatrist).

combine that with the fact that you can run a cash-only private practice and dodge a lot of paperwork. you can take as long as you want when doing psychotherapy and have sufficient time to deal with difficult cases.

your kids are grown up and you have a nice setup. why would you want to retire?

What are you talking about? No one is talking about Psych.

 

[PL198]

keep in mind they are psychiatrists so they work like 30 hr/weeks

psych is different because a lot of patients don't get cured so you see the same patients for many years. you end up playing a crucial part in a child's development (dad is a child and adolescent psychiatrist).

combine that with the fact that you can run a cash-only private practice and dodge a lot of paperwork. you can take as long as you want when doing psychotherapy and have sufficient time to deal with difficult cases.

your kids are grown up and you have a nice setup. why would you want to retire?

To enjoy other things? I assume I will like actual medicine, but I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and say it would be more fun than playing golf everyday if I didn't have to work due to financial constraints.

 

[LostinLift]

One of the problems with pre-meds is thinking that life is going to be 20 times better when they're an attending. An unhappy pre-med will probably be an unhappy med student will probably be an unhappy resident will probably be an unhappy attending. Things may be better or worse during certain parts of the journey, but that's not the point.

Happiness comes from within.

Finally have a good chance to use this East of Eden quote:

"Maybe everyone is too rich. I have noticed that there is no dissatisfaction like that of the rich. Feed a man, clothe him, put him in a good house, and he will die of despair." - J.S.

 

[coffeesnob]

Let me fix this for you.

One of the problems with me is thinking that life is going to be 20 times better when they're an attending.

You don't get to talk yet. Sorry.

 

[Arkangeloid]

Let me fix this for you.


You don't get to talk yet. Sorry.

No, I think he's got a point. When I was in college, I used to tell myself that my life would solve itself when I became a medical student. It didn't.

I think the attending and resident here told themselves the same thing.

 

[coffeesnob]

No, I think he's got a point. When I was in college, I used to tell myself that my life would solve itself when I became a medical student. It didn't.

I think the attending and resident here told themselves the same thing.

I know he/she has a point. I was just joking.

 

[Arkangeloid]

I know he/she has a point. I was just joking.

 

[dyspareunia]

I was listening to golian couple of days back and he said this to which I also agree. Your priorities should be ;

1. God( if you are religious )
2. SO and/or family
3. Medicine

Even a religious person shouldn't put god before SO and kids.

 

[Anastomoses]

Even a religious person shouldn't put god before SO and kids.

Logically this makes zero sense.

@Prince090 - isn't Goljan careful about saying spiritual belief rather than religion and only if you believe in that nonsense? Fyi - Goljan is a gifted communicator and a pathologist - not a demi-god or a spiritual leader. Stop your proselytizing around here. It's kinda...freakish.

 

[Wordead]

Logically this makes zero sense.

@Prince090 - isn't Goljan careful about saying spiritual belief rather than religion and only if you believe in that nonsense? Fyi - Goljan is a gifted communicator and a pathologist - not a demi-god or a spiritual leader. Stop your proselytizing around here. It's kinda...freakish.

Didn't Goljan also say he cured himself of ALS or something? Brilliant pathology teacher, but definitely a bit nutty.

 

[deleted500612]

90% of docs do not recommend medicine to relatives. over half are dissatisfied with their work. doctors have #1/#2 highest suicide rate in the country. There's also high burnout, and depression among the physician community. Many doctors/residents/ and even medical students regret their career choice but what can they do? Just the other day, the PA i worked with was talking to the secretary about how she doesn't understand why anyone would want be a doctor today. She said she makes more than the average pediatrician (she's surgical PA), and can make much more if she wanted to but she chose to have a easy career.

At this point in our career, it's difficult to go do something else, so instead of being extremely depressed and suicidal about it, just make the best of it.

My sister's husband's father is the only physician in my family (rather distant relation, I know) and he tried to talk me out of med school, after I had already been offered admission no less. Just like most careers, I think satisfaction depends at least partially on the state of mind of the person rather than solely being a reflection of the desirability of the career itself. You can often see two people with the exact same job, one will despise it and be absolutely depressed, and the other will like the job and be loving life. There is definitely a big element of individual perspective and the person's state of mind that will factor heavily into job satisfaction.

 

[deleted500612]

Logically this makes zero sense.

@Prince090 - isn't Goljan careful about saying spiritual belief rather than religion and only if you believe in that nonsense? Fyi - Goljan is a gifted communicator and a pathologist - not a demi-god or a spiritual leader. Stop your proselytizing around here. It's kinda...freakish.

Damn it anastomoses, you made me get the dictionary out.

 

[Anastomoses]

Damn it anastomoses, you made me get the dictionary out.

http://dictionary.reference.com/ so much faster.

 

[Neurodelic]

Google search "highest job satisfaction". The result are all over the place, but physician places well more often than not.

 

[DermViser]

Google search "highest job satisfaction". The result are all over the place, but physician places well more often than not.

Uh, no. Just...no.

 

[username456789]

In the most terrible job as a doctor I will NEVER get disrespected or taken advantage of

The naïveté you're displaying here is truly astounding.

 

[Psai]

Google search "highest job satisfaction". The result are all over the place, but physician places well more often than not.

Or you know, you can ask actual physicians.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Even a religious person shouldn't put god before SO and kids.

That would be idolatry, in the religious world.

 

[dyspareunia]

Logically this makes zero sense.

@Prince090 - isn't Goljan careful about saying spiritual belief rather than religion and only if you believe in that nonsense? Fyi - Goljan is a gifted communicator and a pathologist - not a demi-god or a spiritual leader. Stop your proselytizing around here. It's kinda...freakish.

Now you're confusing logic with religion.

That would be idolatry, in the religious world.

So you can't divorce your abusive spouse because the bible says so?

 

[Prince090]

Logically this makes zero sense.

@Prince090 - isn't Goljan careful about saying spiritual belief rather than religion and only if you believe in that nonsense? Fyi - Goljan is a gifted communicator and a pathologist - not a demi-god or a spiritual leader. Stop your proselytizing around here. It's kinda...freakish.

I am not doing that so your accusation is false. There are people who agree with me. Besides,this is an open forum where everyone has the right to express his/her opinion provided that they don't break any TOS.

So, Buzz off.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

So you can't divorce your abusive spouse because the bible says so?

Oh geez, did I say anything even remotely close to that? No, I'm simply discussing the logic (whether you want to agree or not) of putting other things/people before one's creator. That's the definition of idolatry in the monotheistic religions. So your statement of what religious people should do, is illogical for religious people and incorrect. Which is what Anastomoses was probably pointing out, as well.

 

[dyspareunia]

Oh geez, did I say anything even remotely close to that? No, I'm simply discussing the logic (whether you want to agree or not) of putting other things/people before one's creator. That's the definition of idolatry in the monotheistic religions. So your statement of what religious people should do, is illogical for religious people and incorrect. Which is what Anastomoses was probably pointing out, as well.

I think the definition of idolatry is worshiping of idols. Skipping Sunday Mass to be in the delivery room with your wife is not idolatry.

 

[touchpause13]

So you can't divorce your abusive spouse because the bible says so?

Depends on the religion. Catholicism, no, that's against the rules. You can try for an annulment but that's an annoying and expensive process, and you have no guarantee of success.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I think the definition of idolatry is worshiping of idols. Skipping Sunday Mass to be in the delivery room with your wife is not idolatry.

I don't think anyone really wants to see me give Idolatry a proper treatise, but your definition is incomplete and is not what the modern church is dealing with, for obvious reasons, on the subject anymore. Again, enough with the strawmen, no one is arguing about leaving their spouses or skipping mass.

 

[dyspareunia]

Depends on the religion. Catholicism, no, that's against the rules. You can try for an annulment but that's an annoying and expensive process, and you have no guarantee of success.

I was being facetious. Of course things will vary by religion, but my point is that regardless of your religion your daily decisions should be made to benefit your loved ones. God or whatever (not whomever) you worship is not as important as the people you have chosen to surround yourself with.

I don't think anyone really wants to see me give Idolatry a proper treatise, but your definition is incomplete and is not what the modern church is dealing with, for obvious reasons, on the subject anymore. Again, enough with the strawmen, no one is arguing about leaving their spouses or skipping mass.

Leaving your spouse and skipping mass are both examples of putting your SO before god. So I don't see what's wrong with those arguments. I am not making this argument to be a pain in the ass. It's truthfully what I believe and if that means I'm naive or dumb or whatever, then so be it.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I was being facetious. Of course things will vary by religion, but my point is that regardless of your religion your daily decisions should be made to benefit your loved ones. God or whatever (not whomever) you worship is not as important as the people you have chosen to surround yourself with.




Leaving your spouse and skipping mass are both examples of putting your SO before god. So I don't see what's wrong with those arguments.

What is the point of non-religious or even anti-religious people trying to tell religious people how to live, what to believe, and what to think?

 

[dyspareunia]

What is the point of non-religious or even anti-religious people trying to tell religious people how to live, what to believe, and what to think?

What's the point of religious people telling non-religious people how to live, what to believe, and what to think?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

What's the point of religious people telling non-religious people how to live, what to believe, and what to think?

Exactly, so stop.

 

[Mad Jack]

To enjoy other things? I assume I will like actual medicine, but I'm not going to stand on a soapbox and say it would be more fun than playing golf everyday if I didn't have to work due to financial constraints.

I'd rather be a janitor than play golf all day, that sounds horrible. It's the worst sport to ever be concocted by the mind of man.

 

[touchpause13]

What is the point of non-religious or even anti-religious people trying to tell religious people how to live, what to believe, and what to think?

Ehhh that cuts both ways. Personally I think it's pointless to argue over religion on the internets, it will only lead to a disturbance in the feels

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Ehhh that cuts both ways. Personally I think it's pointless to argue over religion on the internets, it will only lead to a disturbance in the feels

See my reply to him. (as in, you stay on your side of the fence, I'll stay on mine)

I agree with you to a point. I generally only jump in on the defense side. I have no intentions of going on offense unless someone is asking me to out of genuine curiosity about my beliefs. What I find so curious, is why so many non-religious/anti-religious people have so much to say to religious people when the inverse is one of their biggest beefs with religion in the first place.

 

[Mad Jack]

Live fast, die young, leave a bloated corpse. I'd rather fall to my death at age 50 free climbing the side of the Grand Canyon than fade away in a hospital.

Oh, I misread your original post, nvm. Thought you were comparing a life of working till you die in a hospital with one of excitement.

 

[touchpause13]

See my reply to him. (as in, you stay on your side of the fence, I'll stay on mine)

I agree with you to a point. I generally only jump in on the defense side. I have no intentions of going on offense unless someone is asking me to out of genuine curiosity about my beliefs. What I find so curious, is why so many non-religious/anti-religious people have so much to say to religious people when the inverse is one of their biggest beefs with religion in the first place.

I think that's a case of a vocal minority. Most of us just want to live our lives and be left the f alone. I agree that there is hypocrisy in those who pull that crap tho.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

The more I read about dying in a hospital the more I want to do it old Indian Chief style. Say my good byes, hike out to some beautiful spot in nature, keel over and die. Let the birds and dogs pick my bones clean.

 

[Mad Jack]

The more I read about dying in a hospital the more I want to do it old Indian Chief style. Say my good byes, hike out to some beautiful spot in nature, keel over and die. Let the birds and dogs pick my bones clean.

I don't care how I go, so long as my life was worth living.

 

[circulus vitios]

Even a religious person shouldn't put god before SO and kids.

If God is real, shouldn't the most powerful and wise entity in existence be more important than your mortal wife and kids?

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

If God is real, shouldn't be the most powerful and wise entity in existence be more important than your mortal wife and kids?

NOOOOOOO, it was over!

 

[circulus vitios]

I think the resentment comes from the stupid bull**** that most people delude themselves with. The idea of picking a specialty because you love it is an absolute joke. Ten or twenty years down the line, the novelty of being a big swinging dick surgeon or a "pillar of the community" family medicine doctor are going to wear off. Eventually you'll get tired of working 70 hours a week or playing social worker for free and the only thing you'll have left is income and lifestyle. I suppose this ties in with unrealistic expectations as well. Medicine isn't a holy calling, it's a job.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

Depends on the religion. Catholicism, no, that's against the rules. You can try for an annulment but that's an annoying and expensive process, and you have no guarantee of success.

Edit: It seems I missed this argument, so I'll keep my rustled jimmy's to myself. I think what you were saying is that it would be a difficult process, so I'll leave it.

I agree it probably wouldn't be as easy as it should be, but I doubt it would be expensive. Extorting battered women/men is not a thing most churches go for.

 

[touchpause13]

Edit: It seems I missed this argument, so I'll keep my rustled jimmy's to myself. I think what you were saying is that it would be a difficult process, so I'll leave it.

I agree it probably wouldn't be as easy as it should be, but I doubt it would be expensive. Extorting battered women/men is not a thing most churches go for.

Because if there's anything the church is known for, it's being considerate towards victims of abuse

http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu79.htm

Q. 8. How much does it cost to process an Annulment?

A. 8. The cost for the processing an Annulment varies from Diocese to Diocese. It can be as low as $300.00 and as high as $2,000.00

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Because if there's anything the church is known for, it's being considerate towards victims of abuse

Yeah all those hospitals, orphanages, and schools....ripping people off left and right.

Picking and choosing facts to support our positions!

 

[Mad Jack]

Because if there's anything the church is known for, it's being considerate towards victims of abuse

http://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu79.htm

Q. 8. How much does it cost to process an Annulment?

A. 8. The cost for the processing an Annulment varies from Diocese to Diocese. It can be as low as $300.00 and as high as $2,000.00

Yeah, and that's if they'll even let it go through. You could pay all that money and end up with a "the Lord really isn't feelin' this one" in regard to your annulment.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yeah all those hospitals, orphanages, and schools....ripping people off left and right.

Picking and choosing facts to support our positions!

She was talking about victims of abuse. Hospitals, orphanages, and schools have nothing to do with that, and do not absolve them for their treatment of women in abusive marriages.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Yeah, and that's if they'll even let it go through. You could pay all that money and end up with a "the Lord really isn't feelin' this one" in regard to your annulment.

The abuse of alcohol, cannabis or other forms of abuse and violence is hardly compatible with the Church's definition of marriage as a community of life and love. Such are grounds for an Annulment.