...So the argument that we will know what is in the bill when it passes, is not entirely true. True ...what exactly will be in that is not known until it passes, but is that really much different than the usual process?
Are we saying, we as Americans must be prisoners of past corruptions and unsavory acts? If it was done in an unsavory way on a smaller scale previously,
"oh, well, then you just have to accept that..."
...Typically bills don't get the press and coverage of this bill, and while it is to be expected with something this large.
Because folks did not pay attention before or were not necessarily interested in the fine print before... again, we should just accept that for all future legislation, no matter how important and/or wide sweeping?
...Double talk and hypocracy is rampant throughout politics. Both sides. Essentially, all politicians...
Again with the justification based on historical (recent & distant) corruptions. Must we just accept and be imprisoned by it? I am reminded by what my parents used to say, "two wrongs don't make a right".
...Health Care has been the cornerstone of the Obama presidency thus far, and a topic he is willing to be a 1 term president over...
I hear this alot. I am very aware of his public speakings as to his beliefs, short term and longterm agendas... I think I linked some in an earlier post. But, the one important point, I think not well articulated, is this....
IT IS NOT ABOUT HIM!!! He won an election to represent US. The continued argument about him being crippled or his cornerstone or his legacy.... IT IS NOT ABOUT HIM!!! I don't care about his legacy. I don't care if he is a one term president like numerous before him... why would that be such a tragedy.... would we some how be taking some "entitlement" from him? IT IS NOT ABOUT HIM!!! Legislation of this magnitude should NOT be pushed and/or passed for some benefit to the WH or the Dems legacy. It is suppose to be about American citizens. Is it our obligation to build upon his cornerstone even if he chose the wrong stone?
...While he might not agree with the constitutionality of Reconciliation ...I am sure have challeged the statute so must have been deemed constitutional
Are you? Or, is this just some additional gift of faith? He himself felt, as a CONSTITUTIONAL lawyer, it is unconstitutional. But, since WH & Dems want to potentially use it, we should assume he was wrong on it and correct on everything else that sounds good to us?
...Pelosi is in the house, where reconciliation is not needed/used... its a senate thing...
There in lies why the early argument of it being used
all the time, and implication of a normalacy fails.
...Pelosi not wanting a house vote...is mainly a result of the order needed to accomplish what they want to accomplish....
And, again, IT IS NOT ABOUT THEM, or their legacies, or what THEY want. Or, at least, it's not supposed to be!
...The house likely would be able to...
That's a good argument... since we presume they can, let's just forego the formality... Since Phelps is a good swimmer and we presume he will win, let's just give hime the gold for showing up at the olympic village and award ceremony. Who needs the actual effort anyways... it's a foregone conclusion!?!
...They essentially trust the Senate as much as the people do, which is none. Deem and Pass was suppose to allow them to vote on the changes without voting on the bill to help these individuals out. It seems now they can vote on the changes before voting on the original bill, which now allows these individuals to see the changes will pass the house before they commit to the original bill.
Do you read what you write? Does that make any sense? I think you previously stated, "
in the house, where reconciliation is
not needed/used... its a senate thing". The parlimentarian of the senate has already stated, the process requires exact passage of the SENATE bill, then president signs into law, prior to "reconcilliation". Again, none of these processes have been used "all the time".... I dare say none have ever been used in such a backward & upside down fashion...
thats the problem, even the people voting for the bill
havent read the thing, let alone the average citizen...
...more demonizing the process instead of the bill. Even you are hung up on the double talk... I am not claiming I sat down and read the 2000 page document I linked you to, haven't even read any of the breakdowns...
And, that makes sense to you? You are not at all concerned that you lack knowledge of what is in the bill? You are not at all concerned at the extreme measures and machinations being required to pass this legislation? Does it not raise the antennaes at all that in order to get this passed it requires all the double talk, etc...? Shouldn't even the most easy going person be the least bit concerned of exactly what is trying to be forced through??? Or, is it that we somehow must just have blind faith? We must kneel before the WH alter and presume all is good?
......I don't support the bill exactly, but I am a single payor backer ....I also see the benefit it will have, and as a single payor backer, don't necessarily disagree with sharing of the burden amoungst all tax payers...
Ah, so you do appreciate the double talk and appreciate this as the well stated, multiple publically stated beliefs (by prominent Dems & WH) that this is NOT about deficit reduction, not about increasing employment, not about healthcare cost cutting, not about lowering premiums, rather... a first step to develop socialized medicine.
As for burden on ALL tax payers.... have you looked and seen who is actually paying 80+% of ALL tax revenues collected?
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/341.html
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/pf/taxes/who_pays_most_least/index.htm
In any event, you final admission to your beliefs and aspirations makes most if not all of your preceding points/arguments mute.