Social phobia + clinical psychology = disaster?

[psydog]

Hi, I have a big problem.
Is it stupidity of someone with a big passion for psychology
but also with a quite severe social phobia to consider becoming
a clinical psychologist?

I have a long history of depression and social phobia. It's not
like I have troble leaving the house or anything, but I do things like: avoid talking on the phone, working with my hands when someone is watching, speaking up in class, mingle (hate it!), do things that require improvisation when people are watching. In 1to1 situations I am usually comfortable. I don't have many friends due to social phobia. I usually don't call friends but SMS them instead.

So basically the odds are stacked against me but the "sad" thing is that I am not really interested in any other subject than psychology. So what should I do? Should I just give up on my dream and do something else, something I think is boring but which is easier for me??? Or should I give it another try??

I've studied academic psychology before and then tried studying clinical psychology (in my country the academic 'path' is not obligatory to become a clinical psychologist: you don't have to have a PhD to do therapy). The problem was that my social phobia really was making it quite an unpleasant experience (otherwise I loved it!!). I also felt like "hmm maybe my social phobia will not get cured and I will not be able to work as a psychologist AT ALL." This made me feel so depressed and because of self-confidence issues I dropped out because it felt so insecure to do this as a career when I have social phobia and don't know how that will affect my ability to work with this.

I know exposure is the way to go and usually advice is
"don't worry if you're a little shy, just hang in there and itll
get better" but problem is I do think I am more than just a little shy. Basically I am afraid that exposure will not suffice.
(I have tried a short CBT but it didn't help. The assigned exposure homework in the CBT was basically too easy so I didn't step out of my comfort zone much.)

So should I try again or am I crazy??

My alternatives:
1 Become a clin psych and hope the phobia disappears.
2 Academic career in psychology (I guess social awkwardness isnt that much of a deal in academia???) Academic careeer seems sort of 'bleak' though...
3 Do sth else than psychology (which would be boring)





English is not my mother tounge, sorry for whatever errors there may be in the text.

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[4Ever]

Working on a PhD while struggling with social phobia would be very, very difficult.

BUT, don't give up on your dreams!!!! You can overcome, or at least, lessen your social phobia. And, then, apply to PhD programs.

Did you work with a professional who is skilled in CBT, or did you just pick up a book? It is important that you work with a professional on this.

Also, CBT is not the only way. There are other treatments out there. When you see a professional, he or she will know what else is available and direct you accordingly.

Best to you!!!!

 

[psydog]

Yes, it was a professional but since I was in a low mood during that period and I didn't study at that time my social life was = 0. This meant that the psychologist had difficulties finding good exercises for exposure therapy. That + the fact that he was rather bad accoring to me

I've thought about trying to get a job as a "social worker" (dont know if this is the correct word) just to stretch my comfort zone and get some feeling of what it is like to work with something adjacent, but problem is that doing therapy is, quite or very, different than cleaning old peoples' appartments and keeping them company for half an hour. Maybe it's good for the social phobia part but it doesn't maybe help much in the process of evaluating wether I would be able to cope with a future job in the field of psychology in the future or not.

Hmm.....

 

[4Ever]

I would be able to cope with a future job in the field of psychology in the future or not.

Hmm.....

I don't think anyone on this board can tell you that. . . . I do know that many people with social phobia do just fine with talking to people one-on-one. Thus, if your goal is to be a clinical psychologist who works one-on-one providing therapy, you may do just fine.

My concern for you is the training involved in preparing you to become a clinical psychologist. Graduate school can be an intense, stressful experience for those without social phobia. You will be taking classes in group therapy; you will be giving presentations to your classmates; you will most likely have your practicum experiences filmed, and your supervisor and often others in your practicum class will watch the sessions with you. They will evaluate what you said, what you did, etc. It is often uncomfortable for those who don't have social phobia. I can only imagine how difficult this would be for someone with it.... Plus, you have to interview to get into the programs. Since you are mentioned that you are not even comfortable calling your friends, it would probably be very difficult for you to go to a interview for admission into a program.

You can become a clinical psychologist, if that is your dream. But, I would highly recommend that you work toward diminishing the hold that social phobia has on you first.

 

[psydog]

I don't think anyone on this board can tell you that. . . . I do know that many people with social phobia do just fine with talking to people one-on-one. Thus, if your goal is to be a clinical psychologist who works one-on-one providing therapy, you may do just fine.

My concern for you is the training involved in preparing you to become a clinical psychologist. Graduate school can be an intense, stressful experience for those without social phobia. You will be taking classes in group therapy; you will be giving presentations to your classmates; you will most likely have your practicum experiences filmed, and your supervisor and often others in your practicum class will watch the sessions with you. They will evaluate what you said, what you did, etc. It is often uncomfortable for those who don't have social phobia. I can only imagine how difficult this would be for someone with it.... Plus, you have to interview to get into the programs. Since you are mentioned that you are not even comfortable calling your friends, it would probably be very difficult for you to go to a interview for admission into a program.

You can become a clinical psychologist, if that is your dream. But, I would highly recommend that you work toward diminishing the hold that social phobia has on you first.

Great advice. I just want to point out that admission into the program here is just based on grades. I've done that one time already (and quit early on due to aforementioned reasons) and could do it again. Like you say, some of those things feel insurmountable for someone like me (i.e. being videofilmed+critized & group therapy settings). Doing a presentation and speaking up in class is uncomfortable but I can do it any time I want, and I do. It's the "group setting with interactive features + critiqe of personal traits" that is most difficult.

I just feel like I'm in a terrible predicament. Because I've suffered from social phobia for many years I don't have a good grasp on my abilities and talents needed for therapy. I feel sort of like an idiot for even considering a career in psychology with my background... It's sort of like the person with dyslexia wanting to become a writer, or maybe rather the would-like-to-be-singer who hasn't dared to use her voice for the last few years

edit: I also should add that I want to become a GOOD clinical psychologist (one on one). I don't know if this is possible with my background.
Being a mediocre/bad psychologist just surviving and not doing much good would be really useless...

 

[4Ever]

I don't have a good grasp on my abilities and talents needed for therapy....I also should add that I want to become a GOOD clinical psychologist (one on one). I don't know if this is possible with my background. QUOTE]

I would also recommend seeing a career counselor. Many universities in the United States offer services to alumni and even community members. I don't know if that is possible in your country.

A career counselor, a good one, will help you to explore your abilities and talents, and s/he will also help you explore other areas that may be of interest to you.

You should also consider contacting psychologists in your area, who are doing work that interests you, and see if they will let you talk to them about their work. This would be a challenge for you, in that you would have to meet with them, but you would also get a better idea of what it is psychologists do, and you could ask them questions about things that concern you.

Good luck!!!

 

[psydog]

It would be great to hear some stories from some clinical psychologists struggling with social anxiety disorder in their 20's, overcoming it, and becoming psychologists. But there are probably not many of them.

 

[PsychResearch]

It would be great to hear some stories from some clinical psychologists struggling with social anxiety disorder in their 20's, overcoming it, and becoming psychologists. But there are probably not many of them.

Perhaps you could use it to your advantage to treat people with social phobia. Since you know how it feels to carry the 'social phobia shoes,' perhaps you could relate better with your clients.

 

[sunlioness]

Perhaps you could use it to your advantage to treat people with social phobia. Since you know how it feels to carry the 'social phobia shoes,' perhaps you could relate better with your clients.

I don't know about that. I generally think that someone who continues to struggle with something is not the best person to be helping others with the same issue. "Knowing how it feels" is good for peer support groups, but doesn't guarantee successful psychotherapy especially if it is something with which the therapist continues to struggle.

 

[Zigman]

I generally concur with the others...that if this is your dream, you can do it. I think working on yourself for a while first, before entering grad school again, is important. As for the mention of exposure work, I think finding someone who is really good at it will be key. I am training in exposure work currently and have learned that very few therapists seem do it well (likely because doing intense exposure work with a client is difficult for most). Personally, I am finding it quite challenging. For many reasons, I don't think hoping your problems go away is a good path. Good luck!!

 

[Ollie123]

I'm not sure its realistic with an active diagnosis, for the reasons others have mentioned. You will have a group of people watching videos of you and telling you everything you do right and wrong. I think many/most people will do SOME group therapy in grad school, where you may have anywhere from 5-25 people in a room. You may/will be expected to teach, which can involve getting up in front of hundreds. You may have to speak in front of large crowds at a conference. I think about 95% of clinical is "improvisation" even with a relatively straightforward case, so that would be challenging.

That said, I don't think its at all unreasonable for you to pursue after getting effective treatment and I'd encourage you to do so. Anxiety disorders are one of the few areas of mental health we actually have pretty darn good success with treating...primarily via exposure. I wouldn't dive right in at your current state, but grad school can essentially BE exposure therapy as well. While I'd have never met criteria for social phobia - I NEVER liked speaking in front of people. Now I can get up in front of hundreds without a second thought (except conference talks....those still scare me!). Get some treatment, get yourself most of the way there, and then think about starting a program when you are ready.

I'm going to have to disagree with PsychResearch that you should emphasize social phobia...if anything I think its "generally" easier to steer away from a disorder you personally have. Whether you want to call it counter-transference, personalization, bias, or whatever else, it can often be problematic. Now, there may be exceptions and I don't think there are any absolutes here, but I've definitely seen situations where it has resulted in people "assuming" they knew what the other person was going through when that wasn't the case...and that is where the problem often lies.

 

[Sun Lips]

The President of the Social Anxiety Institute suffered from severe social anxiety for well over twenty years.

As we all know, the cornerstone of any diagnosis is, "The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." It appears to me that social anxiety is interfering with very important areas of your life (e.g., preventing you from pursuing your dream job) My suggestion would simply be this, go back to therapy and overcome social anxiety!

If you can overcome this (which as a previous poster said is very possible, because the interventions for SA are extremely effective) I think that you are in great shape and could absolutely achieve your goal. Anyone telling you that you can't become the person that you want to be and do the things that you want to do in life I sincerely hope isn't going to become a therapist. "Settle for less in your life because you currently have a mental disorder and are broken, forever!"

I think that you would be in a unique position to provide therapy for individuals suffering from social anxiety and similar disorders. The majority of therapists have received therapy at some point in their life. I find this to be a positive thing in certain regards, as it may help your ability to empathize with someone if their current position isn't entirely foreign to you.

Granted I don't think you will be able to become a successful clinical psychologist if you don't sincerely overcome this. Echoing what a previous poster said, just "Knowing how someone feels" doesn't make for successful psychotherapy. A therapist can only take a client as far as they have gone. You can do this, but I think approaching these issues head on and in a professional setting is essential. Good Luck!

 

[psydog]

Ive gotten som very good pieces of advice both in this thread and in private messages. Thank you ! Ill be back later with more comments.

 

[DrGachet]

I am in a Ph.D. program in counseling psych and I have been a very anxious person around others for all of my life and have engaged in some of the behaviors that you have mentioned (avoiding social activities, etc.). I seriously considered dropping out at one point due to panic symptoms when in groups of people. Repeated exposure and a mindset that I wasn't going to back down even if I passed out and went into full blown panic every single meeting was what got me through it (although I still get pretty nervous at times, but nothing compared to what it was).

Just be aware that your anxiety will make a difficult process WAY more difficult. My first year was pretty rough. I ended up developing heart palpitations (30+ a day). Sometimes I would wake up in the middle of the night with chest pains, racing heart rate, etc. due to the added stress. I would get dizzy and short of breath almost every case conference and it wouldn't go away for the entire 90 minutes I was in there. I definitely came across as uncomfortable and aloof in meetings because I couldn't formulate my words because I was so nervous. I would get dizzy when sitting in a room with clients and lose my focus at times. Pretty much every supervisor that has worked with me noted my difficulties with it.

My 2nd year has been way better for me. I am less anxious than I was although I still have bad days, but nothing like they used to be. Just be aware that you will be expected to lead group therapy, discuss cases in front of large groups of experienced professionals, give presentations in almost all of your classes, defend your prospectus and thesis, etc. in front of groups of people. I have to give outreach presentations to large random groups of students (20+) as part of my externship. Expect to be thrown into the deep end of social interaction. The anxiety will limit your ability to learn and to be as effective as you can be if you don't actively work on it in your personal life. Individual counseling, meditation, and a few good readings were all helpful for me. I never ended up taking medication.

Wow, this is real dedication. To put up with all that anxiety and still go through with it, it's great to hear. Hopefully you'll be in a better position to treat those with anxiety in the future, given that you have a real sense of what it's like.

In fact, I think most of us come from backgrounds that have been far from perfect, and a biological makeup that is far from perfect, but it's the challenge in life, to make good things happen for us and others despite the disadvantages.

And to the OP: don't give up. I have a serious disabling deformity in the form of my big nose so another suggestion is to use humor to deal with these situations in grad school. Everybody gets anxious and public speaking is way up there so making light of it helps.

As an aside note, I thought that posts that discussed personal medical history get locked. Medical problems are described, suggestions and advice is given, and so I don't understand....

 

[Neuropsych2be]

One question you need to ask yourself is whether you truly are as bad off as you seem to believe. Anxiety is a central aspect of the human condition. Everyone experiences it and it is like one's shadow. You can't run from it as it will pursue you everywhere. What you should consider is making peace with your anxiety. It seems as if you are anxious about your anxiety. That's a tough spot to e in. I would hazard to say that your experience with anxiety and depression might make you a fantastic therapist because you have confronted these emotions directly rather than sublimating them. I am not surprised that traditional CBT did not work for you. Perhaps mindfulness-based work would be helpful for you or even something more psychodynamically oriented. Anxiety is a complex affective state and it may exist in your life for reasons that go beyond irrational thoughts and conditioning. Anxiety may be serving a function in your life that you don't understand. But don't give up. I am a shy and introverted person by nature but have been in the field for a long time.

Hi, I have a big problem.
Is it stupidity of someone with a big passion for psychology
but also with a quite severe social phobia to consider becoming
a clinical psychologist?

I have a long history of depression and social phobia. It's not
like I have troble leaving the house or anything, but I do things like: avoid talking on the phone, working with my hands when someone is watching, speaking up in class, mingle (hate it!), do things that require improvisation when people are watching. In 1to1 situations I am usually comfortable. I don't have many friends due to social phobia. I usually don't call friends but SMS them instead.

So basically the odds are stacked against me but the "sad" thing is that I am not really interested in any other subject than psychology. So what should I do? Should I just give up on my dream and do something else, something I think is boring but which is easier for me??? Or should I give it another try??

I've studied academic psychology before and then tried studying clinical psychology (in my country the academic 'path' is not obligatory to become a clinical psychologist: you don't have to have a PhD to do therapy). The problem was that my social phobia really was making it quite an unpleasant experience (otherwise I loved it!!). I also felt like "hmm maybe my social phobia will not get cured and I will not be able to work as a psychologist AT ALL." This made me feel so depressed and because of self-confidence issues I dropped out because it felt so insecure to do this as a career when I have social phobia and don't know how that will affect my ability to work with this.

I know exposure is the way to go and usually advice is
"don't worry if you're a little shy, just hang in there and itll
get better" but problem is I do think I am more than just a little shy. Basically I am afraid that exposure will not suffice.
(I have tried a short CBT but it didn't help. The assigned exposure homework in the CBT was basically too easy so I didn't step out of my comfort zone much.)

So should I try again or am I crazy??

My alternatives:
1 Become a clin psych and hope the phobia disappears.
2 Academic career in psychology (I guess social awkwardness isnt that much of a deal in academia???) Academic careeer seems sort of 'bleak' though...
3 Do sth else than psychology (which would be boring)


English is not my mother tounge, sorry for whatever errors there may be in the text.

 

[psydog]

I guess this is not the place for talking about personal problems but just regarding the previous post "One question you need to ask yourself is whether you truly are as bad off as you seem to believe." there was one interesting thing when I was in CBT in that every time I DID do something I had dreaded the actual anxiety level when DOING it was not very high, or it started high but went down quickly even the first or second time. But the anxiety BEFORE was 10 out of 10 in anxiety. Unfortunately, after very short time without new exposure to the "now almost anxiety-free activity", anxiety sky-rocketed again for the certain activity practiced with exposure.

It was sort of like hitting a nail and it goes in first time.... no need to keep hammering at it... and then when you turn your back to it, it pops up again.

Therapist said he couldn't understand it, that I didnt follow the norm, and then switched workplace and therapy ended. Meh...

Sorry for this slight detour off topic.

 

[ventstri]

there was one interesting thing when I was in CBT in that every time I DID do something I had dreaded the actual anxiety level when DOING it was not very high, or it started high but went down quickly even the first or second time. But the anxiety BEFORE was 10 out of 10 in anxiety. Unfortunately, after very short time without new exposure to the "now almost anxiety-free activity", anxiety sky-rocketed again for the certain activity practiced with exposure.

It was sort of like hitting a nail and it goes in first time.... no need to keep hammering at it... and then when you turn your back to it, it pops up again.

Therapist said he couldn't understand it, that I didnt follow the norm, and then switched workplace and therapy ended. Meh...

Sorry for this slight detour off topic.

This is an example of within- vs. between-session habituation, and, despite your therapist's feedback, is quite normal. Anxiety typically decreases within an exposure exercise, most typically from a pre-exposure peak to a mid-exposure floor. However, the point to which it decreases within the exposure is *not* the point at which it will subsequently begin prior to the next exposure. The pre-exposure peaks typically also habituate, but this process is generally considerably slower than the within-exposure habituation.

 

[Ollie123]

Don't want to push this into the line of "treatment" so I will leave it at this.

Find another therapist. Shop around if need be, but find a good one. You may wish to look into other modalities, but I don't know that I would rule out giving exposures another try with the right therapist.

That's about all I'm willing to say in this context.

 

[aagman01]

Spend some time finding yourself, challenging yourself, and overcoming your social anxieties. Get good therapy. Albert Ellis developed many of this perspectives/theories that led to his RET/REBT models through conquering his own anxieties. Read about his story - fascinating. You will be more successful in your interviews & a better therapist for exploring and overcoming your challenges. Also, most importantly, you will be a stronger person. Good luck

Don't want to push this into the line of "treatment" so I will leave it at this.

Find another therapist. Shop around if need be, but find a good one. You may wish to look into other modalities, but I don't know that I would rule out giving exposures another try with the right therapist.

That's about all I'm willing to say in this context.

 

[psydog]

Just great great advice here! I'll be taking one semester off or two doing other things and then possibly (hopefully) come back. Ill have to work hard to do this. Maybe join toastmasters international or something....

Ive now heard of Ellis, and the fouinder of that anxiety center who suffered from social phobia. Please tell me more success stories. Very uplifting Wasnt Freud also a sufferer from depression? I guess there has to be a reason why you are drawn to psychology. Either b/c own illness or another person's in your proximity...

I don't know about the US but in Europe salaries for a clin psych are often the same as for a librarian or brick layer or sth. So you sort of HAVE to be a bit insane to choose this field

 

[psydog]

I went to med school instead.
The format is stricter which is good for a social anxiety-person like me.
I still think psychology is more interesting though. Ill see what happens.

 

[graduatingsoon]

med school seems like a good choice for you. I don't know what you mean by stricter format, but i think its harder to get through a clinical psychology program without being pretty comfortable and confident in group and social settings.

You will also always be in demand/employed and make a very nice living