Socialized medicine and the next president

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
News to me as well. I wonder if they tell people about this before they sign the WICHE paperwork.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Wow, is this for real? I'm from New Mexico and I'd like to practice in New Mexico, but if they are going to take 10% of my gross I might be a little hesitant.

Yes it is true. Wherever there is a shortage of ALL medical professionals, there is usually a good reason why. Look into that before you run off to the area with great population ratios...and if you can live with the problem, great. If not, at least you found out about it before you set up shop there.
 
Guess that explains why 75% of UNM med school graduates don't practice in NM after residency, despite the adcom all but making applicants sign a blood contract that they intend to practice in NM in order to be accepted.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
This issue along with immigration will get nowhere. We'll all be running around in circles. Politicians can talk all they want but having one individual elected as president being able to impact it is just fantasy. Obama is a lot of hype he hasn't really said anything concrete about his administration. There is also a possibility that republicans might be underestimated.
 
Universal Healthcare is definately an infringement on personal liberties to the DOCTOR not necessarily the patient. This is the key thing that democrats that support this nonsense theory don't understand. If someone does not have enough money to pay me for the work I do why would I do it everyday? I understand that I will perform community dental work on my free time free of charge;but let me make that my decision on when I should treat the underserved. Don't tell me I have to take time out of my day to treat someone where I am losing or only making 5 bucks on a filling. Will the gov't pay me the full amount that I need to pay my overhead or just some standard amount that they pay everyone in the area. They have no idea that I might use better materials than the dentist next door or that I like to spend 10 extra minutes talking to my patient in order to keep them....if universal healthcare where in effect then I would have to buy cheaper materials and wouldn't care to talk the extra 10 minutes to distinguish myself from the dentist next door....i would become below average to mediocre in my practice and i would just be going through the motions. I understand this probably wont happen to dentists, but if it happens to MD's then I feel for each and every one of them.. If you want proof in the pudding stand in line at the DMV and tell me if you want the gov't watching over you in your practice. IF you want to do a "feel good notion" for somebody don't make me suffer, go to your local food shelter and serve some food or donate some clothes. Take a weekend and show some oral hygiene instructions to a local underserved elementary..just don't tell me who I have to treat. Amen
 
I think most Americans can get behind these ideas. It is common sense, but it is so far removed from the arena of political ideas that no major candidate has a platform even close to this. If you know of somebody who thinks this way, let me know because he has my vote.

Ya Ron Paul. He says it like it is. Its just to bad that a lot of what he says to do about it just isn't realistic or wise. Some of it is, but some of his ideas would be a really bad idea if implemented.
 
Greetings from Cleveland! They don't call it the hip-replacement capital of Canada for nothing.
 
Wow, is this for real? I'm from New Mexico and I'd like to practice in New Mexico, but if they are going to take 10% of my gross I might be a little hesitant.

If you think 10% is bad, just wait until the feds let the current tax cut expire and your FIC rate goes from 33% or 25% back up to the 39% it was 8 years ago. Gotta punish those people that make over 100k. So 39%+10% state tax on your practice + 6.2% Social Security (and the practice has to match that 6.2% for every employee) + about 2% medicare tax. So the way I figure it, no matter where you live, you won't be bringing home half of your money.
 
If you think 10% is bad, just wait until the feds let the current tax cut expire and your FIC rate goes from 33% or 25% back up to the 39% it was 8 years ago. Gotta punish those people that make over 100k. So 39%+10% state tax on your practice + 6.2% Social Security (and the practice has to match that 6.2% for every employee) + about 2% medicare tax. So the way I figure it, no matter where you live, you won't be bringing home half of your money.
If I'm not mistaken, these tax cuts were made permanent.

I read an article in Money that mentioned a tax rate of 49-70% in the higher income earners during the mid 70's. Amazing!
 
the tax cuts were not permanent. These are the "Bush tax cuts for the rich" the democrats are planning to cut. Because to the federal gov if you make over $100k per year you are rich so they can get more of your money.


Universal healthcare is an infringement on your rights because it is taking your time($$=time) and forcing you to give this time to someone else. So inherently you cannot live your life how you want. It's sad to think that as doctors you work almost 5 months a year to pay the taxes. If you get away from thinking about money and realizing this money is the same as your time you will realize that it is an infrigement on your basic rights because they are dictating how you will live your life. Without taxes you could either receive more money or take more time off and keep your current take home paycheck. Proponents of univ health always say its for the children and poor, which yes it is not the best thing, but by FORCING you to work a month or two a year to pay for others healthcare is taking away from how you want to live your life
 
Especially when you have 'socialized' education?

The education system in this country is severely flawed which is exactly why I don't want the government to control health care. Major changes need to be implemented as access to care is way under par but I do not believe that socialized or any other government control is the way to go.
 
Proponents of univ health always say its for the children and poor, which yes it is not the best thing, but by FORCING you to work a month or two a year to pay for others healthcare is taking away from how you want to live your life

Wow. You have no idea what you're talking about.

We don't have UHC, but we still pay twice as much in total healthcare spending (government + private insurance) than any other first world country. Our government spending in healthcare accounts for 60% of the USA's total spending. Why? Well there's a number of factors but most of them have to do with our messed up insurance system. Our uninsured go to the ER for primary care, or emergencies, and even if they don't have money, the hospitals treat them. Now the ER is in order of magnitudes more costly than preventative or even primary care. Our government, through medicare/medicaid, subsidizes the treatments of the uninsured. As unintuitive as it sounds, it's actually LESS COSTLY TO INSURE THE UNINSURED!

Secondly, have you heard about the proposed plan to incorporate UHC? They want to retain the current Medicaid and Medicare system, and then add a 2% income tax. Even if you made 200,000 dollars a year, it'd still be cheaper than paying for an individual healthcare plan. And everyone is insured.
 
The education system in this country is severely flawed which is exactly why I don't want the government to control health care. Major changes need to be implemented as access to care is way under par but I do not believe that socialized or any other government control is the way to go.

I'm just going to copy paste what I posted in another similar thread...

"Universal healthcare smacks of socialism? I hope you never called the police, sent mail, or went to public school because man, those commie programs would sure make your blood boil.

There's so much misinformation regarding UHC, and I'm getting sick of the same old tired rhetoric.

Just a few quips:

- Morally outraged about paying for someone else's health insurance? Too bad you already do, and you actually probably pay more now then if you had universal healthcare. When the uninsured seek primary care or any kind of medical care in ER, hospitals treat them even if they don't have money. Then our government subsidizes the costs, paying orders of magnitude higher in the ER then if the patient had been covered and treated at a primary care center. 60% of all healthcare spending in the US is from the government. Americans pay more than twice as much in total, than any other country with Universal healthcare.

- Overhead is significantly reduced under UHC, at an estimated 3% in current UHC using countries, as opposed to 15-20% for our private health insurance.

- The VA (our SOCIALIST veterans' medicare) gets a 40% discount on pharmaceuticals because of bulk spending, just like Canada.

- Every first world country that has had privatized care, now has UHC. It's proven and effective. Whether it's socialist or not, is irrelevent. If you want to protest socialism or progressive taxation, reject any FAFSA aid, government funded loans, IRAs, public schools, your local police department and fire station, library, community center, to name a few. You know we used to have privatized law enforcement, but then people realized there's a time and a place for public programs.

- Here's a free market conundrum for you BOOTSTRAP/CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY types: A recent study published showed that the obese and smokers actually cost less in total care spending than healthy citizens, because they live shorter lives."
 
Members don't see this ad :)
- Here's a free market conundrum for you BOOTSTRAP/CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY types: A recent study published showed that the obese and smokers actually cost less in total care spending than healthy citizens, because they live shorter lives."

I agree with just about everything you said, nick naylor.
 
Wow. You have no idea what you're talking about.

We don't have UHC, but we still pay twice as much in total healthcare spending (government + private insurance) than any other first world country. Our government spending in healthcare accounts for 60% of the USA's total spending. Why? Well there's a number of factors but most of them have to do with our messed up insurance system. Our uninsured go to the ER for primary care, or emergencies, and even if they don't have money, the hospitals treat them. Now the ER is in order of magnitudes more costly than preventative or even primary care. Our government, through medicare/medicaid, subsidizes the treatments of the uninsured. As unintuitive as it sounds, it's actually LESS COSTLY TO INSURE THE UNINSURED!

Secondly, have you heard about the proposed plan to incorporate UHC? They want to retain the current Medicaid and Medicare system, and then add a 2% income tax. Even if you made 200,000 dollars a year, it'd still be cheaper than paying for an individual healthcare plan. And everyone is insured.

Then the government will cut your pay and won't have to compete with anyone to keep you around. They will continue to have raging orgies with current HMO administrators who will likely be kept on board. And then when the boomers keep rolling in, you'll just work longer to keep their crappy bodies keep going.

Anyone ever look into rationing care which now UHC countries started to do?
 
The funny thing is, we all sit here and complain about what the next president is going to do, but how many of us actually went out and campaigned for who we thought would do the best job? How many of us even went out and voted in the caucuses? The only way to get change is to go out and make it happen, yet we all just sit around waiting for it to happen.

When you are the minority, no one cares about your voice though it may be possible to convince others in caucuses.
 
Then the government will cut your pay and won't have to compete with anyone to keep you around. They will continue to have raging orgies with current HMO administrators who will likely be kept on board. And then when the boomers keep rolling in, you'll just work longer to keep their crappy bodies keep going.

Anyone ever look into rationing care which now UHC countries started to do?
The pay cuts are already happening now, and we don't even have UHC yet. Every couple of months, I get an e-mail from the American College of Surgeons where they talk about declining reimbursements for their surgeries. This is real and its happening everywhere; UHC won't magically bring this on. So the reality is that we ARE getting reimbursed less every year, health care costs ARE going up every year, and more Americans become uninsured every year.

I actually just watched Sicko tonight with my wife and I must admitt that I was troubled. I was troubled more so from the fact that these insurance companies are dictating how I will practice and how I can help my patient. There was alot of bias in the movie, but the shame and agony on the faces of those doctors who worked for Humana was real. I would certainly be depressed if my day consisted of figuring out how not to help patients. No one is taught how to do that in medical school, and that shouldn't be a necessary evil of capitalism.

Also, we really can't ignore that compared to other nations with supposedly inferior and insane healthcare systems, we are doing pretty bad. I'm not a Moore lover, I love capitalism, and I love America, but we have to be idiots to not see that we aren't exactly winning this healthcare race when compared to other countries. Honestly, if my medical school debt was non-existent, I would not mind at all taking a pay-cut to make it happen.
 
Honestly, if my medical school debt was non-existent, I would not mind at all taking a pay-cut to make it happen.

I say this all the time and I know a lot of other have said it as well. However I don't really see how we help the situation by doing so. Our salaries make up a small portion of health care expenditures.
Also I think we're all being a little deceptive in saying we'll take a paycut if our loans are paid off. Are paycuts would be offset by our loans/tuition being paid by the govt. Also most people are so scared of debt that they would take a pay cut greater than that of their debt in order to get rid of it. Now if someone said they would take 80K as a cardiologist and still take on the massive school debt I would have to tip my hat to them. They are probably being a little too idealistic and maybe even misinformed but you can't say they don't have principles.
 
Why does the goverment have to fix everything? See also...Why do we look for the goverment to come fix everything when something goes wrong?
 
Why does the goverment have to fix everything? See also...Why do we look for the goverment to come fix everything when something goes wrong?

The reason we are in this mess now is because the government got involved in the first place. Over the years government interference and regulation have gone up and up. So have costs.

The real way to control costs is a free market. No that doesn't mean insurance companies competing against each other. It means patients actually pay for their care out of pocket. We would be so much better off if MD's just told all the insurance companies to go screw and started offering their services for cash only. A lot of MD's are starting to do this now. Costs would go down, because doctors would have to compete with each other for patients and we wouldn't be paying an enormous government and private insurance bureaucracy for no reason.

Insurance, government or private, has a place. It is for catastrophic illness or injury. When the paint peals on your house, you don't get it painted and then have the painter bill your homeowner's insurance company, right? No, you are responsible for normal wear and tear, and when a flood or fire comes you are covered. It makes sense and it costs less.
 
Why does the goverment have to fix everything? See also...Why do we look for the goverment to come fix everything when something goes wrong?

Why? Cause the government is currently dictating how much doctors get paid... it's called medicare. The private health insurance companies pay a PERCENTAGE of medicare reimburisement (So the government actually pays better!)

So it's the government fault this mess is the way it is. The combination of EMTALA and medicare is anvil and hammer combo we currently have.
 
Well I see how is easy to cling to socialized healthcare as a solution to the healthcare crisis, there are a lot of points that need to be raised. First off I think its important that we decide if healthcare is a right to all or not. I personally believe that it is not a right but rather a service. Secondly we need to understand who is financing this system. The government is not a producer but rather a redistributor of finances. We will ultimately be paying for this system which raises the question would the government be better at determining how we spend money on health care or not? Again I personally believe for a lot of cases no. I believe we would benefit from a general healthcare system where the government covers basic services such as Family Practice, Internal Medicine, Pediatrics,and OB-GYN, and ER up to an extent (without the inclusion of long term critical care). The reason behind this being that this woudl be beneficial to the public as we would have a healthier country which translates to a healtheir workforce and all around better well being due to the population having access to a preventative medicine/basic care scheme. I do believe that the government may be able to do a better job if they stuck to these basics and made broad based "rules" that would limit beauracracy (These medications will be covered across the board for all people who may need them; these can be generic medications and would be reasonably cost-effective). Where I think the problem lies is in healthcare outside the basics. Example, your uncle has a heart attack and needs a cardaic cath or other procedure. I don't think its feasable or fair to cover these procedures as covering healthcare outside of the basic run of the mill stuff will bring beuracracy and overhead similar that plague an HMO since we realistically (and i do mean realistically) can't cover all these expenses. From a civil rights standpoint I think it also not fair to charge others to pay for these advanced procedures that cost much more than preventative care and basic services. This is what private health insurance is for. Like car insurance it shoudl be for larger unforeseen things like heart attacks/car accidents etc. Now some will say "well what about the very poor, they don't have access to these advanced procedures?" Well the unfortunate truth is yes from an insurnace standpoint becasue the bottom line is we can't get something for nothing and it is not fair to ask doctors to provide a service if someone cannot pay. The costs of covering everything for everyone would be unbearable from a tax standpoint. I believe though if we were to imlpement this system the very poor will be able to obtain some of these procedures pro bono since doctors won't have to worry as much about getting paid since we would have a reasonable system in place that will ensure payment (not like the medicaid/medicare system we have now). In an ideal world everyone would get healthcare but realistically its not fair to tax John for Jims heart transplant. If the government taxed you to buy a house for a poor family I'm sure this would foster anger too.
Look to the veterans hospitals for a version of what our socialized healthcare is for those who have made a great sacrifice for their service to our country.
Lastly, none of this really matters as we are so far in debt and our economy is falling so hard that we cant realistically even attempt a system for at least another 10 years...ESPECIALLY with the medicare/medicaid entitlements.
I suppose thats about it!
 
although im not a part of the healthcare field yet, i have been a member of the uninsured for years, the working uninsured. a significant portion of the population in this country is in this boat. the biggest problem i have with republicans is that they are not providing any altervative policies to this problem. what more libertarian type policies will better the situation of the growing uninsured in the US and has it worked somewhere else?
 
although im not a part of the healthcare field yet, i have been a member of the uninsured for years, the working uninsured. a significant portion of the population in this country is in this boat. the biggest problem i have with republicans is that they are not providing any altervative policies to this problem. what more libertarian type policies will better the situation of the growing uninsured in the US and has it worked somewhere else?


Hold on there. You are falling for the rhetoric hook line and sinker. The Republicans DO offer an alternative it's just not exciting so it gets no coverage and if you tried to explain it to most americans they would fall asleep.

What McCain proposes is getting rid of the tax break employers get for giving you health insurance. Lets say for a typical family your policy costs 12K a year. Your job would pay around 9K and you would pay the other 3K. Under McCain your job would instead pay you the extra 9K directly. Plus you would get a 2500 tax credit for individuals and 5000 for families.

The second part of McCains plan is to allow insurance to be sold over state lines. Why is this important? Because some states have less regulation and allow for cheaper insurance. For example I live in the midwest and pay $110 a month for basic coverage. In NY I would pay 300-400 for the same coverage.

So for a young and healthy person like myself I could get 2500 a year in cash, then pay 1320 in insurance premiums and put the rest in a HSA or just spend it. Thats not including my employer giving me more in my pay check since they are not paying for my insurance.

Now lets look at a young relatively healthy family of 3. Lets say their jobs at the current time offers no insurance so they would not be getting an extra amount in their income under Mccains plan. However they would still get 5K in cash a year. Plus the oppurtunity to shop across state lines. So lets say they currently live in a state where the cost of coverage is 1000 a month for a family of 3. Thats 12K a year and too expensive. Under McCains plan they would get 5K reducing the cost of insurance down to 7K. However if that is still too high they can shop across state lines and get a policy for say 8K a year which would reduce their costs to 3000 a year for insurance.

So who benefits under the McCain plan?
-Young healthy individuals
-Relatively healthy working families who can not afford coverage at this time
Who loses
-Older individuals especially those with medical conditions. These folks may wind up paying MORE for coverage.

Who benefits under the Democrats plan?
-Older individuals and those with medical conditions.
Who loses
-Young healthy individuals
-Relatively healthy working families who can not afford coverage at this time
-Why? Because under the dems plan their is one central cash pool into which everyone contributes.
A simplified example
Let say theres 10 of you and all together you spend $10 on health care a year. So you can be insured if you all put in $1 a year into your health care fund.
Now lets add in two individuals. They each require 20 dollars in care a year. So now theres 12 of you in the pot with a cost of $50 a year in medical expenses. You now each pay a little more than $4 a year. Great for the two new individuals bad for everyone else.

If your relatively healthy and can't afford insurance then the McCain plan benefits you the most.
If you have a medical condition or in the high risk pool and can't afford insurance you want the democrat's plans.

The downside to both, your coverage will still suck. Insurance companies and the govt will deny care and shaft you every chance they get.
 
so how about a compromise. use a mixture of tax breaks, deregulation for peopl that can afford it and a government plan that provides a safety net for older sicker americans that can not afford insurance. I used to work in a county hospital and you would be surprised how many people i met that quit their jobs or got divorced to qualify for medicaid, regular insurance was beyond their range.
 
so how about a compromise. use a mixture of tax breaks, deregulation for peopl that can afford it and a government plan that provides a safety net for older sicker americans that can not afford insurance. I used to work in a county hospital and you would be surprised how many people i met that quit their jobs or got divorced to qualify for medicaid, regular insurance was beyond their range.

There is just no money for it. In order to cover the older and sicker we need to have the young and healthy paying into the same health care pot.

Another example
10 Older Sicker Americans: each spending $100 in health care a year
8 young healthy americans: each spending only $10 in health care a year

Now you could combine all the americans resulting in a cost of 1080 a year in health care dollars. This results in each American paying 60 dollars. More affordable for the old and sick but much more expensive for the healthy americans.

If you let the 8 healthy Americans go off and buy their own plans they only have to pay 10 dollars. While the older and sicker have to pay 100 each.
 
The problem I have with that is that it leaves people out, the most needy amoungest us. I'm not sure if politically viable I just think having the biggest strongest (even now) in the world we can figure out a way to have coverage. We spend the largest portion of our gdp on healthcare but can't cover everyone. we can do better for ourselves and if the private market can't do it than the government should.
 
I've got a question.

Where are all of the holier than thou, self righteous, openly altruistic, despise the dollar people who all too often run their mouth in arenas such as this when they complete their training? I certainly don't see them in the workforce -- we are always too busy working and trying to cover student loans, mortgages, childcare, running a practice, trying to not get sued, etc, all the while watching our pay get cut year in and year out.

Do they all go into public service, missions, foreign aid, join the Red Cross, beg on the street, or what? Or is it that they acquire some semblance of experience and realize that their time lost in training, expenses incurred along the way, etc have some sort of intrinsic value?

Intelligence and passion, without experience and comprehension, is a very dangerous thing. Everyone needs to think long and hard before joining a cause or seeking out significant change. It is safe to say to well over 50% of the people in medical school will make less than the county jail nurse in San Fran or many of the San Fran detective, fire captain, etc… recently made public info.
 
The problem I have with that is that it leaves people out, the most needy amoungest us. I'm not sure if politically viable I just think having the biggest strongest (even now) in the world we can figure out a way to have coverage. We spend the largest portion of our gdp on healthcare but can't cover everyone. we can do better for ourselves and if the private market can't do it than the government should.

You are going to leave someone out regardless. It's not a matter of the warm fuzzies allowing us to cover everyone. Reality is that you can try and cover all the elderly and sick but that leaves working families either without care or so strapped by health care taxes/expenses that they can't afford to put food on the table or send their kids to college.

It sucks but you can't have it both ways.
 
Universal healthcare is sheer economic nonsense and will utterly destroy what little is left of the U.S. medical establishment. It will be universal access to a waiting list for conveyor-belt care. I am saying plainly that I do not want to pay one red cent for a bunch of morbidly obese baby boomers to get hip replacements. And I would rather practice for $50,000 a year in a free market than for $150,000 in a socialized system.

The government needs to stay out of medicine altogether. Everything they touch turns to ****. The current condition of the health care system is a direct result of 95 years of blatantly unconstitutional government intervention in the economy and the only way to reverse the situation is to get the government out. Those who believe the free market has failed are truly ignorant because we have never had anything even mildly resembling a free market during our lifetime. It's the Keynesian (mixed) system that has failed, not the free market.
 
Basically, it seems like universal health care is every affluent hippie era baby-boomer's wet dream. They've worked (regardless of the field/profession) for 25-30 years. They've made their income, and then some. They have their summer homes. Their kids are off to prep school college.

Most of their spawn are also demanding the same thing.

Unfortunately, the beginning cusp of the baby boom generation was all about themselves and no one else. And they're loud. And they talk. A LOT. This explains a lot.

I want those Greatest Generation WWI / Great Depression / WWII folks back in their prime again just like circa 1980's. They put all these smart-*** loudmouths in their place.
 
Basically, it seems like universal health care is every affluent hippie era baby-boomer's wet dream. They've worked (regardless of the field/profession) for 25-30 years. They've made their income, and then some. They have their summer homes. Their kids are off to prep school college.

Most of their spawn are also demanding the same thing.

Unfortunately, the beginning cusp of the baby boom generation was all about themselves and no one else. And they're loud. And they talk. A LOT. This explains a lot.

Theres a reason why they are called "generation me."
 
You are going to leave someone out regardless. It's not a matter of the warm fuzzies allowing us to cover everyone. Reality is that you can try and cover all the elderly and sick but that leaves working families either without care or so strapped by health care taxes/expenses that they can't afford to put food on the table or send their kids to college.

It sucks but you can't have it both ways.

Make sure everybody points this out to crackheads on Obama's website. Everyone here has to spread this message. There is no such thing as a free lunch and gotta make sure these old farts get what they deserve. NOTHING. Should have saved for retirement you lazy *****s.


For college kids, get a job and some responsibility. My parents were right about school. You don't know anything until you actually go get the bucks. You pre-meds don't have any real responsibilities except taking tests. Better yet, just go with business degrees. Lot less crap to deal with in the end.
 
For college kids, get a job and some responsibility... You pre-meds don't have any real responsibilities except taking tests.

But oh, come on, the college premed has such a stressful life, you have no idea!! Those 4 hours of class a day (which they use to stalk their friends on Facebook), their Pre-Med club meetings one Tuesday evening for 1 hour per month, their intramural frisbee games in the Quad for 1 hour a week... GOD, it's amazing how they can do ALL that AND still have time to get their World News from MTV.com and those trustworthy blogs. They are the learned folk with the infinite knowledge, now bow down to them. :rolleyes:

They've got money for that new $2500 laptop, yet they can whine about a recession. I can't wait to listen to more of their rants in this coming election year while waiting in line somewhere about "The state of the world" and big evil corporations and other babble they acquired from some intro sociology class while they wait for their dairy-free, meat-free, wheat-free chicken alfredo and microbrew. Lovely.

(P.S. Relax, this is definitely not directed at all pre-meds, I just needed to get it off my chest.)
 
Make sure everybody points this out to crackheads on Obama's website. Everyone here has to spread this message. There is no such thing as a free lunch and gotta make sure these old farts get what they deserve. NOTHING. Should have saved for retirement you lazy *****s.

Don't know if I agree with that. The system is dysfunctional at the moment and health care is too expensive. Whether it be a stay or operation in the hospital that wipes out a families life savings or just paying insurance premiums that can easilly exceed 1K a month in premiums. Of course socialized medicine is not the best solution and may not even be a feasible solution.

What people should be concentrating on is curbing inflation and lowering the cost of living. More money in your pockets and a stronger dollar = affordable health care. Thats really the solution to most of our problems.
 
Why does the goverment have to fix everything? See also...Why do we look for the goverment to come fix everything when something goes wrong?

Why? Cause the government is currently dictating how much doctors get paid... it's called medicare. The private health insurance companies pay a PERCENTAGE of medicare reimburisement (So the government actually pays better!)

So it's the government fault this mess is the way it is. The combination of EMTALA and medicare is anvil and hammer combo we currently have.


Amen. I don't want the government to get anymore involved then they already are. I think they could help with coordination but I think that health insurance companies and pharma needs to pony up now.
 
We also spend more because we have guess what more "sick culture" people than other countries. Obesity epidemic and other living fast lifestyle factors. We always talk about primary prevention cutting down costs, but anybody ever analyze our cultural factors? That's what I mean when I say these old farts need to rot in their own mess. They want to enjoy life and then leave the young (not just docs) with the burden to take of them. If you want to smoke, drink liquor, etc., go ahead but expect returns on your investment. Liberals always love to victimize people rather than create responsibility (ex: SS). I forgot to mention. These people usually don't give a s3it about your advice. They continue to be porkers.

The other posts about insurance basically covering the young makes sense. Truth isn't always pretty. If YOU think that old people need extensive cancer treatment to cover their problems, go ahead AND THEN, pay it out of your pocket. They need a new knee. They pay for it otherwise get a cane. My grandma never had a joint replacement. It's part of being old. I'm not being heartless, I'm just being real.

EVERYONE on this forum should contact your congressmen/women. I already have been emailing them on how the current system should have remedies in mind that empower the physician and that keeping healthcare providers sane is important. We will ALL hate medicine for 20-30 years of our life if we let it keep going this way. You would all be very surprised that they do respond even on multiple occasions.

Also, we need somebody in the system to undo the idea we are some sort of trust. We are also people that deserve to control our lives rather than help others at our expense.

For all you well-wishing undergrads, don't enter the system because you will change your mindset when you actually have real responsibilities. Go be a hippie instead and collect the (insert any liberal policymaker) check every month you'll be EARNING from my work. I'm dogging you because you don't know how life really is until you have a job and watch yourself regret what you took for granted as a college student, and I can see why you would vote for a POS who keeps just saying McSame without being a Fixbama himself because he sounds good. Maybe he should get a rock band while he's at it.
 
You can't fix entitlement of salary issues if you still have tuition investment. How can someone in their right mind ask people to take a paycut when they have thrown so much into medicine besides the big bucks? I'm sure it would be a lot different if kids didn't fork over 200K.

Business world doesn't have such problems because they are seen as SERVICE providers. I don't see medicine to be any different. I provide a SERVICE, not a right because a right would imply I'm a servant. Maybe doctors need to point out to their political reps that socialized medicine would have to address the indentured slavery aspect in order to keep providers satisfied.

If you're a pre-med/dent/whatever, you have NO idea of what the real world is like. Just be happy your college and lack real world responsibilities. All our parents were right when they said you're living the good days now back in HS and college. When you owe 200K, you will think differently. Once again, take away tuition for the brightest Americans and you'll see some improvements in our system.

And by the way, most patients indeed are a bunch of failures. Blame American society or whatever. Most patients are failures. Even when stuff is handed to them, they don't care. They want quick fixes for a life long of masochism. Medical education is helpful to very few, especially in populations that are needy. Medicine provides recommendations. It doesn't teach responsibility.

I just hope that I can make some cash 10 years in the game and leave when I'm 40. Start paying those loans off as a resident. Avoid getting fancy apartments and live in place you expect to sleep in well.

MESSAGE OF THE YEAR: Go into business. You might make less now, but the potential is only more, not less.
 
Don't know if I agree with that. The system is dysfunctional at the moment and health care is too expensive. Whether it be a stay or operation in the hospital that wipes out a families life savings or just paying insurance premiums that can easilly exceed 1K a month in premiums. Of course socialized medicine is not the best solution and may not even be a feasible solution.

What people should be concentrating on is curbing inflation and lowering the cost of living. More money in your pockets and a stronger dollar = affordable health care. Thats really the solution to most of our problems.

Well, responsibility can't be ignored. That's why we need RIGHT insurance meaning insure the young in disasters, not old folks. I'm sorry but someone needs to take a hit, and it shouldn't be the next gen. Whatever happened to the old gen making sure the next gen has it better. Baby boomers, the biggest mess ever created.
 
Whatever happened to the old gen making sure the next gen has it better. Baby boomers, the biggest mess ever created.

"Whatever happened to the old gen making sure the next gen has it better?"

There were obvious social changes that needed to be made in the 1960's etc., but they were taken 50 times too far...

LBJ and the "Great Society"
The Hippie Era and the selfishness that came with it
Women's Movement, Title IX , AA --- doing REVERSE discrimination and more damage than was present before
The Hippie Era's spawn grow up and bring strife to all age groups (having been born in different years, depending on age of onset)

Everything thrown into turmoil, competition instead of "completion".

Lather, rinse, and repeat.
 
Top