socialized medicine

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LOL

As if?!

As if people are just making a line to adopt other's toddlers children and infants (newborns is a different story)!

Anyway ,

I agree when you have traveled and lived abroad you can more adequately give opinions on the matter...ot at least it seems.


Also I do agree with you SocialistMD on a money free society .
The love of money is the root of all evil...
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Finally There-
Good website. The only drawback with this method is that it still does not really remove enough of the burden from the ER's and transfer it to the clinics; The state only runs 20% of the clinics while a majority (in the US, at least) of patients in the ER are those that would be more effectively handled by a primary care physician. Still, it is not a bad idea.



[This message has been edited by SocialistMD (edited 03-14-2001).]
 
Zerocool, I think it's interesting that you don't seem to offer much of a "solution" to the health care problems in this country. You only seem to attack other ideas. If the only "solution" to this problem of the uninsured is for people to start making better choices, then we better figure that one out, because then we could solve all of society's problems! Be realistic; people make bad choices all the time. Of all the proposals out there to fix health care, including the current one of expanding prescription coverage for medicare, universal coverage is the one that can be LEAST described as a "band-aid fix."
 
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There are just a few points that I want to underline:

first - Our gov't DOES have plenty of money. We do pay a lot of taxes without seeing much in return. I propose that the money we already pay be used in ways that better serve us. This is NOT the military, but is education. It is NOT tax breaks for the wealthy, but investment in social programs.

second - The gov't should not only exist to rule and punish, but to maintain its citizens. It is not our place to judge whether or not another person is worthy of such care.

Just in case someone forgot, health care is a basic human right:

United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.


 
Numinous,

You know it would be really great if the US would implement the UNs proposed policies as you have stated them.

That way, I would never have to work a day in my life because its my RIGHT to receive food, housing, medical care, etc from the government according to the UN.

Sounds great to me!!

I think i'll just hold my breath until Uncle Sam gets with the program and starts ensuring my RIGHTS to all those things.

------------------
"There is nothing more powerful on this Earth as a man who has nothing to lose. It does not take ten such men to change the world--one will do." Elijah Mohammed
 
baylor21-
You should know by now that the standards agreed upon by the nations of the world don't apply to the US! The UN is only useful when we can get it to send troops where we want or to look the other way when human rights abuses occur in our own country! In fact we are the only nation that consistently does not pay its UN dues. Not exactly a golden track record for the world's Big Brother, Champion of the Free World, is it?
 
Goza1 - The only idea I am attacking is Universal Health Care, which is what this thread is about. It is not about who wants to offer their "solutions" to the US health care problems. And if you read more clearly I have offered some solutions. Maybe you don't agree with them, but at least they are getting to the root of the problem, not just trying to treat the "symptoms".

Numinous - And why should we not spend money on the military? There are many other programs that could be cut, why would you chose the one who defends all those right you take for granted. Between 1998 - 2002, Education funding went up 10.6%. Health and Human Services went up 11.2%. The Defense funding went up 4.6%. Yes our Government does have plenty of money, because we have been over taxed. Now with Slick Willy gone, the people will get back some of the money they should have gotten back a long time ago.

Tax breaks for the wealthy???? Nice spin on the issue, getting your information from CNN do we.... By no means am I wealthy, but will I enjoy getting a tax break, you bet. Will I enjoy reducing the marriage penalty, you bet. Who would not???

[This message has been edited by Zero Cool (edited 03-15-2001).]
 
SocialistMD: No, I'm not in med school yet. I will be applying this summer. Where do you think we've met?
 
I did not know if we had met. I was just wondering if I may have run into you at an interview. I guess not.
Maybe we will meet this coming year.

[This message has been edited by SocialistMD (edited 03-15-2001).]
 
Yes, CNN - that bastion of liberal thought - OWNED BY GENERAL ELECTRIC! Maybe your latest issue of the New Republic doesn't call it a tax break for the wealthy, but that does not mean it isn't. If education and social spending is up, why do services in both areas still suck? Our population has grown, sherlock, yet we are still far behind in taking care of it. Don't give me that you-live-in-a-free-world-because-of-today's military BS - there has been no threat to American security since Ronnie's arms race. If the tax cut is such a welcomed move, why do MOST Americans say they would rather have more invested in social programs than a tax cut? You wouldn't have guessed it from Bush speech to Congress, but all the programs he detailed for the first 30 min. make up a sliver of his new budget.
 
I guess you do not understand the difference between who OWNS CNN and who RUNS CNN. Two different groups of people with two different political views.

"No threat to American security since Ronnie's arms rase.", what bubble do you live in? There is ALWAYS a threat to American security. The reason most things don't take shape is because our military is as strong as it is. Cutting funds will only weaken it... I'm not saying that someone will out right attack the US, but they will feel less threatened and possibly attack weaker countries, which will lead to worse things...

"MOST Americans say they would rather have more invested in social programs..." Really?? Where did you get that from, your own personal survey?

"An exclusive national poll conducted for LOUIS RUKEYSER'S 2001 MONEY GUIDE found that 66 percent of those questioned -- including 53 percent of those describing themselves as Democrats -- favored an across-the- board cut in U.S. income taxes
this year."

I would have to say that MOST Americans WANT a tax cut.
 
I am a Canadian. I have lived here all my life and lemme tell you this universal health care stuff is a load of crap. It doesn't work. In theory, it's a great system but to run it properly would require an infinite amount of money. The Canadian system is EVIL. Take it from me, a Canadian. The best system would be a mixture of the American and Canadian systems, in which poor people can still use the public system and if you have money you can use the private one.

As for socialism, that's a bunch of crap too. I don't believe in it, and never will. People need an incentive to WORK. You keep helping out the poor people (by having them on welfare) and all they do is sit at home with no incentive to go out and work. At least the gov't can allow them to sweep up streets or something for the money, but no that would be considered slave labor according to our gov't.
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by moo:
As for socialism, that's a bunch of crap too. I don't believe in it, and never will. People need an incentive to WORK. You keep helping out the poor people (by having them on welfare) and all they do is sit at home with no incentive to go out and work. At least the gov't can allow them to sweep up streets or something for the money, but no that would be considered slave labor according to our gov't. •
Click to expand...

See, the incentive is, if you do not work, you do not contribute to society, and therefore, you do not eat. No handouts, no welfare. In order to qualify for the benefits of society, you have to be a productive member of society. By not having a job you are not. Thus, people work.
Why is everyone so pessimistic about human nature? Are we all so special in that we on this board are the only ones in the world who work without some monetary incentive? Is that really what you believe motivates everyone?
Maybe I am naive, but I know that I would do this if I made only enough to support my family because it makes me happy. I am not so arrogant as to think that I am the only one in a population of over 5 billion who thinks this way. In fact, I am willing to bet I am not even in a small minority.
Give people a little more credit. Otherwise, what good is it to help them?

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by SocialistMD:
See, the incentive is, if you do not work, you do not contribute to society, and therefore, you do not eat. No handouts, no welfare. In order to qualify for the benefits of society, you have to be a productive member of society. By not having a job you are not. Thus, people work.
Why is everyone so pessimistic about human nature? Are we all so special in that we on this board are the only ones in the world who work without some monetary incentive? Is that really what you believe motivates everyone?
Maybe I am naive, but I know that I would do this if I made only enough to support my family because it makes me happy. I am not so arrogant as to think that I am the only one in a population of over 5 billion who thinks this way. In fact, I am willing to bet I am not even in a small minority.
Give people a little more credit. Otherwise, what good is it to help them?

•
Click to expand...

You really think that people will work for free? I think that is a naive view of the world that will never materialize. People get paid for each job according to their abilities. Don't tell me a street cleaner should get the same amount as a doctor or lawyer. In theory, socialism might work but you're right, I am too pessimistic about human nature to believe that it will work.

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by moo:
You really think that people will work for free? I think that is a naive view of the world that will never materialize. People get paid for each job according to their abilities. Don't tell me a street cleaner should get the same amount as a doctor or lawyer. In theory, socialism might work but you're right, I am too pessimistic about human nature to believe that it will work.

•
Click to expand...

Let's see here, you mean to tell me that your medical attention is more important than the work of the construction crews that are out in the hot sun building the roads so you and everyone else can get to work? How about the people who build the houses in which we live, the people who farm the goods we eat and the police officers who protect our right to life?
Do you think nurses work any less hard than doctors?
There are people out there who work just as hard as medical professionals and get paid much less. Are they providing a vital function to society? Do you take advantage of the services they provide daily? Why then, should they be paid less? Because they enjoy something else? Because they may not be as mentally capable as us? People should be screwed in life because of their genetics?
You are right. It probably will never materialize, at least in my lifetime. However, it does not make it wrong and the current state of affairs right.

dfleis-
First, a clarification; communism is a political theory, not an economic one. Do not confuse the two.
Maybe I assume too much in thinking that people are driven not by being better than everyone else, but by making themselves better for the sake of being better. I push myself every day to be better, yet it is not to be better than anyone else. It is just for the sake of making myself better. I think that, if given the right circumstances, the best in humanity would prevail and socialism would work. It would just require a world much different than the one in which we currently live.



[This message has been edited by SocialistMD (edited 03-17-2001).]
 
SocialistMD,

You want to know what I do for a living while I am going to college? I clean ****. Yep, I wipe asses at work and I work along side nurses day in and day out. Don't tell me I don't know what "hard work" is. Of course I do. In the summer, I regularly put in 16 hour shifts, working my butt off because the hospital is short staff, and half my paycheck goes to the gov't. For what? So we can support the people who choose not to work and choose to remain on welfare. I used to work in a bank... and every "welfare Wednesday" drunks come in cashing their welfare checks. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they're just going to waste it on booze.

I know that you are saying that we should all "share the wealth" and that everybody should work and contribute, but as I said before, this is unlikely to ever happen. Maybe it is a good theory, but in reality it is impossible to implement.

 
Like I said before, I understand this is not really feasible the way the world (and more particularly, the US) works. I just want to make the point that it is possible and it could work. It would just require a different mindset than is currently held by the majority of people in this country.
 
I don't think you even know what socialized means...
 
10 years late on this one...
 
if u think about it, saying that the government should be taking care of us, is really saying we should be taking care of each other. and shouldn't that be the case?
 
Picture1.gif
 
phnerd1105 said:
Picture1.gif
Click to expand...

Score:

phnerd1105: 1
US of A: 0 (sadly)

Nice cartoon.

I can't wait for the day that we have universal health care. Obama failed us.

Yes we can became, well, maybe we could . . . all the way to, hey let's extend the bush tax cuts . . .

How about a new radical idea, We stop spending like a bipolar person on a manic swing and then tax the crap out of everyone fairly till we dig our selves out of a deficit.
 
The only thing inevitable from the healthcare reform law is the complete destruction of health insurance companies. The problem is people do not understand the word insurance. What would happen if I bought car insurance after I total my car? What would happen if I buy life insurance for my family after they die? Insurance is about shared risk. If you can not buy insurance (and pay a small, insignificant penalty that is LESS than what it costs to buy insurance) and get it only when you need it the whole business model is destroyed. I am curious as to what you guys think about this. I think there are too many "all or nothing" aspects in the reform plan as it stands.
 
SilverBvllet said:
The only thing inevitable from the healthcare reform law is the complete destruction of health insurance companies.
Click to expand...

I don't think this will happen but I sure hope it does.
 
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