finalpsychyear

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I am being charged 1000 for setup/annual fee and 500 yearly therater for a 401k in tandem with a cash balance the latter haveing separate fees in its own. I have been told that if i don't do the 401k through this company all other 401k's that are more cost effective (schwab) will not allow you to do anything post tax resembling a 401k roth ira contribution of around 20k since the 401k for solo owner is reduced to 35k instead of the typical 55k range.

Not sure anyone can help with this since this is a niche thing. Basically 401k/sep ira have 55-56k limit but when you combine them a a cash balance and you have a solo plan your 401k drops to 35-36k max contribution that is tax deferred. However, you then of course can post tax throw another 20k into the 401k roth ira if its set up properly. I just wanted to make sure nothing was being obviously left out as a i am a newbie to all this ripe for being taken advantage of.

Thoughts welcome.
 

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I have been told that if i don't do the 401k through this company all other 401k's that are more cost effective (schwab) will not allow you to do anything post tax resembling a 401k roth ira contribution of around 20k since the 401k for solo owner is reduced to 35k instead of the typical 55k range.
I've never heard this before. Was the person who told you this also the same person who has a financial incentive in you going with his/her company? I'm no lawyer/accountant/or financial guru, but the whole essence of a Solo/Individual 401k is that you have the freedom to decide what company is the custodian of your money. Does the cash balance plan that they're pitching match your funds or have some kind of profit sharing that would make it worth it to your bottom line? I'm not familiar with that, but it all sounds like snake oil.

By the way, Roth IRA and Roth 401k are totally different investment vehicles with their own contribution rules and limits. And asset protection laws.

Personally/anecdotally, I've been a Vanguard fanboy since 2006ish since I learned about index investing, but Fidelity won my business for my Solo 401k since they allowed incoming transfers. Vanguard offers a Roth Solo 401k, but I'm happy with the combination of pre-tax Solo 401k at Fido and post-tax Roth IRA at Vanguard as part of a balanced breakfast tax strategy. Other than the postage of mailing some paperwork as well as the expense ratios built into the index funds at both places, I haven't given Fidelity or Vanguard a penny in extra fees. Annual fees dramatically eat into your annual return, which adds up exponentially over decades of growth, and if we're strictly speaking Solo 401k (as opposed to you being a salaried W2 employee stuck with your employer's 401k or 403b offering), you have more freedom of choice on where to set one up.

I'd personally choose one of the reputable places (Schwab, Fidelity, Vanguard, maybe Etrade) and Do-It-Yourself without all the $1000/$500/other annual fees. It all sounds like slimy snake oil to me, but take my opinion with a grain of salt, since I'm not familiar with the terms of your Cash Balance Plan.
 
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finalpsychyear

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I've never heard this before. Was the person who told you this also the same person who has a financial incentive in you going with his/her company? I'm no lawyer/accountant/or financial guru, but the whole essence of a Solo/Individual 401k is that you have the freedom to decide what company is the custodian of your money. Does the cash balance plan that they're pitching match your funds or have some kind of profit sharing that would make it worth it to your bottom line? I'm not familiar with that, but it all sounds like snake oil.

By the way, Roth IRA and Roth 401k are totally different investment vehicles with their own contribution rules and limits. And asset protection laws.

Personally/anecdotally, I've been a Vanguard fanboy since 2006ish since I learned about index investing, but Fidelity won my business for my Solo 401k since they allowed incoming transfers. Vanguard offers a Roth Solo 401k, but I'm happy with the combination of pre-tax Solo 401k at Fido and post-tax Roth IRA at Vanguard as part of a balanced breakfast tax strategy. Other than the postage of mailing some paperwork as well as the expense ratios built into the index funds at both places, I haven't given Fidelity or Vanguard a penny in extra fees. Annual fees dramatically eat into your annual return, which adds up exponentially over decades of growth, and if we're strictly speaking Solo 401k (as opposed to you being a salaried W2 employee stuck with your employer's 401k or 403b offering), you have more freedom of choice on where to set one up.

I'd personally choose one of the reputable places (Schwab, Fidelity, Vanguard, maybe Etrade) and Do-It-Yourself without all the $1000/$500/other annual fees. It all sounds like slimy snake oil to me, but take my opinion with a grain of salt, since I'm not familiar with the terms of your Cash Balance Plan.
No, I think your on to something. I know most 401k's don't have that 401k roth ira post tax option unless they are somewhat customized. Now that is why you perhaps are doing 2 different solo 401ks to have pre and post tax contributions. I haven't found one in my limited research that can do it all with 1 account unless customized like the person charging the fee so maybe that is the selling point the ease of it. But from what your describing coughing up 500 for setup and 500 for annual fee means paying 1k this year and 500 thereafter which doesn't make sense if i can literally just have 2 separate ones.

I do think they are going for the angle one 401k that lets you do both i believe those don't exist unless customized but simply having a pre and post tax one seems to save me 1k right off the bat!!
 
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Stroganoff

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No, I think your on to something. I know most 401k's don't have that 401k roth ira post tax option unless they are somewhat customized. Now that is why you perhaps are doing 2 different solo 401ks to have pre and post tax contributions. I haven't found one in my limited research that can do it all with 1 account unless customized like the person charging the fee so maybe that is the selling point the ease of it. But from what your describing coughing up 500 for setup and 500 for annual fee means paying 1k this year and 500 thereafter which doesn't make sense if i can literally just have 2 separate ones.

I do think they are going for the angle one 401k that lets you do both i believe those don't exist unless customized but simply having a pre and post tax one seems to save me 1k right off the bat!!
To be clear, I only have a pre-tax Solo 401k and a post-tax Roth IRA. My Solo 401k plan at Fidelity doesn't have the Roth option of contributing after-tax money. It's all pre-tax.

Here's the Solo 401k plan at Vanguard: Details of Individual 401(k)s | Vanguard

It looks like the employee contribution option ($19,000 for 2019) gives you a choice: "Employee contributions can be either pre-tax or after tax (Roth)." Seems flexible. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like when you contribute to that plan, once you've established one, each time you get to choose whether that money is pre-tax employee contribution or after tax (Roth).

Physicians in general are perfect targets to sweet talk into retirement plans with unnecessary fees or AUM fees and commissions. I'm skeptical of how you describe this plan. If it's a Solo 401k, that means you're probably getting 1099 income or whatever, so it's really all on you and none of their business. Again, I don't know much about "Cash Balance" plans, so don't quote me on this.
 
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finalpsychyear

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To be clear, I only have a pre-tax Solo 401k and a post-tax Roth IRA. My Solo 401k plan at Fidelity doesn't have the Roth option of contributing after-tax money. It's all pre-tax.

Here's the Solo 401k plan at Vanguard: Details of Individual 401(k)s | Vanguard

It looks like the employee contribution option ($19,000 for 2019) gives you a choice: "Employee contributions can be either pre-tax or after tax (Roth)." Seems flexible. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like when you contribute to that plan, once you've established one, each time you get to choose whether that money is pre-tax employee contribution or after tax (Roth).

Physicians in general are perfect targets to sweet talk into retirement plans with unnecessary fees or AUM fees and commissions. I'm skeptical of how you describe this plan. If it's a Solo 401k, that means you're probably getting 1099 income or whatever, so it's really all on you and none of their business. Again, I don't know much about "Cash Balance" plans, so don't quote me on this.
Yeah the cash balance plan doesn't have anything to do with the solo 401k except it limits your maximal deductible portion to that 35-36k number for a solo 401k. You need to have employees who are also participating in the cash balance to allow your 401k to function like it normally would independently thats the easiest way to explain it. Since you are getting screwed out of 20k deductible portion you get to "make up" for it by contributing up to 20k post tax in the the 401k roth ira fund usually a part of the customized 401k plans to sorta get you to that 56k number a normal 401k 1099 persoin would have.

But now that im thinking about this someone could simply have two separate 401ks one works just like a normal one pre tax deductible and another that has the 401k roth ira if you choose to make that 20k post tax contrinbution. I'll let you know what i find. Your post was still very helpful so thank you so much!
 

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401k roth ira
Roth 401k and Roth IRA are different animals. :)

But now that im thinking about this someone could simply have two separate 401ks one works just like a normal one pre tax deductible and another that has the 401k roth ira if you choose to make that 20k post tax contrinbution.
At least with my read of Vanguard's site, it's technically one Solo 401k that has pre-tax and Roth "buckets." But still one overarching account.

Anyways, I'll let others chime in on this Cash Balance plan stuff. Sounds fishy to me.
 

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Vanguard offers a Roth Solo 401(k) that you can contribute up to $19,000 to for 2019 (plus catch-up contributions). Your total contributions (employee + employer) cannot exceed $56,000 plus catch-up contributions. There is nothing special about this limit. Your "financial guru" is trying to keep your business with him.

Where you may run into trouble is amending your plan. You'll need to be careful not to amend into something that you've been doing that might not be allowed any longer. For instance, some plans like you describe offer a checking account feature that lets you write a check for real estate to invest in. If you have real estate investments (or other investments not stock, ETF's, or mutual funds), then this likely isn't allowed in a Solo 401(k) offered by the major brokers like Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and Vanguard.

You would likely need to dispose of those before amending to another broker. I would strongly urge you to consult with a retirement specialist and attorney before doing this. The IRS is not forgiving of 401(k) infractions, and even though a Solo 401(k) is a one-participant plan, it is still considered a workplace 401(k) by the IRS and subject to the same penalties.

Finally, post this on Bogleheads or White Coast Investor's forum. Spirit Rider is an excellent resource for things like this and would be able to give you a clear answer to put you on the right track before consulting with your attorney and a retirement specialist.
 
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dpmd

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Etrade has a regular 401k and a Roth 401k option. I opened both for no money and no annual fees. I haven't even had to pay for any trades because they offer free ones along with the mutual fund and etfs that are free always.
 
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finalpsychyear

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Vanguard offers a Roth Solo 401(k) that you can contribute up to $19,000 to for 2019 (plus catch-up contributions). Your total contributions (employee + employer) cannot exceed $56,000 plus catch-up contributions. There is nothing special about this limit. Your "financial guru" is trying to keep your business with him.

Where you may run into trouble is amending your plan. You'll need to be careful not to amend into something that you've been doing that might not be allowed any longer. For instance, some plans like you describe offer a checking account feature that lets you write a check for real estate to invest in. If you have real estate investments (or other investments not stock, ETF's, or mutual funds), then this likely isn't allowed in a Solo 401(k) offered by the major brokers like Schwab, TDAmeritrade, and Vanguard.

You would likely need to dispose of those before amending to another broker. I would strongly urge you to consult with a retirement specialist and attorney before doing this. The IRS is not forgiving of 401(k) infractions, and even though a Solo 401(k) is a one-participant plan, it is still considered a workplace 401(k) by the IRS and subject to the same penalties.

Finally, post this on Bogleheads or White Coast Investor's forum. Spirit Rider is an excellent resource for things like this and would be able to give you a clear answer to put you on the right track before consulting with your attorney and a retirement specialist.

Ok I will take your advise but my situation as it is right now:

1. I have a SEP IRA: this will need to be transferred to the solo 401k before I ever do that backdoor roth next year to avoid pro rata crap situation.

2. I'm 95% likely going to do the cash balance and 401k as both have to be on paper by end of the year though no contributions till tax deadline + extension.

3. From what I'm hearing I can bypass the company who wants to do both my cash balance and 401k combo while charging me 1k to setup and 500 annual for just the 401k by simply on my own getting both a solo 401k and a roth 401k either through 2 different brokerages like Schwab and Vanguard who offer a solo 401k and a roth 401k or what dpmd suggested via etrade who offer both through one account or 2 accounts under the same broker.

4. I have sadly never done a backdoor roth conversion. Will this likely be a part of the solo 401k i will replacing the sep ira with or is this a third separate fund?

So i can potentially have a cash balance, solo 401k, roth 401k, and roth ira fund where all that backdoor conversion magic happens?
This is unnecessarily and maybe purposely convoluted mostly in names just to justify the outrageous charges otherwise if it were too simple everyone would just do it.

You guys are awesome and I will keep spreading all this financial wisdom to my colleagues who equally need correct information.
 

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1. I have a SEP IRA: this will need to be transferred to the solo 401k before I ever do that backdoor roth next year to avoid pro rata crap situation.
I did a quick web search and looks like Fidelity, Schwab, and E*Trade allow incoming rollovers (e.g. SEP-IRA to
Solo 401k). Vanguard does not. Double check me on this if anything's changed.

2. I'm 95% likely going to do the cash balance and 401k as both have to be on paper by end of the year though no contributions till tax deadline + extension.
Does the cash balance plan offer a good employer contribution, aka free money? Even taking into account the annual fees, is it worth it?

3. From what I'm hearing I can bypass the company who wants to do both my cash balance and 401k combo while charging me 1k to setup and 500 annual for just the 401k by simply on my own getting both a solo 401k and a roth 401k either through 2 different brokerages like Schwab and Vanguard who offer a solo 401k and a roth 401k or what dpmd suggested via etrade who offer both through one account or 2 accounts under the same broker.
Seems worth it to think of them separately, i.e.:
1) Only do the cash balance account if the employer contribution - annual fees is worth it.
2) Treat the Solo 401k account separate and just do it yourself.

4. I have sadly never done a backdoor roth conversion. Will this likely be a part of the solo 401k i will replacing the sep ira with or is this a third separate fund?
Backdoor Roth IRA conversion involves converting a Traditional IRA contribution to a Roth IRA contribution and isn't related to any 401k vehicle, unless we're talking about the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA conversion, which is a different kind of unicorn. So basically you have two accounts: Traditional IRA and Roth IRA. The Traditional should be a virgin account that is created for the purpose of doing this yearly conversion (aka don't re-use an existing Rollover IRA for it)...helps with proving that you're not commingling money. It normally can sit with a $0 balance all year until you do the Roth IRA conversion in ~January typically.

There's some good step-by-step guides on White Coat Investor and other places.

So i can potentially have a cash balance, solo 401k, roth 401k, and roth ira fund where all that backdoor conversion magic happens?
This is unnecessarily and maybe purposely convoluted mostly in names just to justify the outrageous charges otherwise if it were too simple everyone would just do it.
I'd only bother with the cash balance plan if the employer contribution (free money part, or % of your earnings) makes it worthwhile after all fees are subtracted. Otherwise just do it yourself and pick somewhere like Schwab or E*Trade that offer Solo 401k's with the option to do Roth 401k contributions as part of the same account. It's a pain to overcomplicate all this and have to juggle and babysit multiple accounts that overlap each other.
 
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dpmd

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I did a quick web search and looks like Fidelity, Schwab, and E*Trade allow incoming rollovers (e.g. SEP-IRA to
Solo 401k). Vanguard does not. Double check me on this if anything's changed.


Does the cash balance plan offer a good employer contribution, aka free money? Even taking into account the annual fees, is it worth it?


Seems worth it to think of them separately, i.e.:
1) Only do the cash balance account if the employer contribution - annual fees is worth it.
2) Treat the Solo 401k account separate and just do it yourself.


Backdoor Roth IRA conversion involves converting a Traditional IRA contribution to a Roth IRA contribution and isn't related to any 401k vehicle, unless we're talking about the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA conversion, which is a different kind of unicorn. So basically you have two accounts: Traditional IRA and Roth IRA. The Traditional should be a virgin account that is created for the purpose of doing this yearly conversion (aka don't re-use an existing Rollover IRA for it)...helps with proving that you're not commingling money. It normally can sit with a $0 balance all year until you do the Roth IRA conversion in ~January typically.

There's some good step-by-step guides on White Coat Investor and other places.


I'd only bother with the cash balance plan if the employer contribution (free money part, or % of your earnings) makes it worthwhile after all fees are subtracted. Otherwise just do it yourself and pick somewhere like Schwab or E*Trade that offer Solo 401k's with the option to do Roth 401k contributions as part of the same account. It's a pain to overcomplicate all this and have to juggle and babysit multiple accounts that overlap each other.
If he is talking about a solo 401k then any employer portion isn't "free money" as it comes out of the business profits. It is pretty much just a tax avoidance vehicle.
 
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Stroganoff

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If he is talking about a solo 401k then any employer portion isn't "free money" as it comes out of the business profits. It is pretty much just a tax avoidance vehicle.
I was referring to the Cash Balance plan. If that defined contribution requires having that account, it could be worth the hassle. But if he's a 1099 employee, then I'm a little confused why the employer would be chipping in in the first place, hence the confusion why this sales person is offering both Cash Balance and Solo 401k accounts if they're part of the same IRS bucket.

Edit: If I'm reading up Cash Balance plans correctly, they offer an additional bucket with potentially $150,000 in pre-tax contributions per year? If so, that's likely worth doing. OP hasn't given details on how the Cash Balance Plan is set up.
 
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finalpsychyear

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I did a quick web search and looks like Fidelity, Schwab, and E*Trade allow incoming rollovers (e.g. SEP-IRA to
Solo 401k). Vanguard does not. Double check me on this if anything's changed.


Does the cash balance plan offer a good employer contribution, aka free money? Even taking into account the annual fees, is it worth it?


Seems worth it to think of them separately, i.e.:
1) Only do the cash balance account if the employer contribution - annual fees is worth it.
2) Treat the Solo 401k account separate and just do it yourself.


Backdoor Roth IRA conversion involves converting a Traditional IRA contribution to a Roth IRA contribution and isn't related to any 401k vehicle, unless we're talking about the Mega Backdoor Roth IRA conversion, which is a different kind of unicorn. So basically you have two accounts: Traditional IRA and Roth IRA. The Traditional should be a virgin account that is created for the purpose of doing this yearly conversion (aka don't re-use an existing Rollover IRA for it)...helps with proving that you're not commingling money. It normally can sit with a $0 balance all year until you do the Roth IRA conversion in ~January typically.

There's some good step-by-step guides on White Coat Investor and other places.


I'd only bother with the cash balance plan if the employer contribution (free money part, or % of your earnings) makes it worthwhile after all fees are subtracted. Otherwise just do it yourself and pick somewhere like Schwab or E*Trade that offer Solo 401k's with the option to do Roth 401k contributions as part of the same account. It's a pain to overcomplicate all this and have to juggle and babysit multiple accounts that overlap each other.
Hey thank you for the clarifications. The cash balance quotes I have gotten is i can deduct 70k ish per year tax deferred and it goes up 2-3k a year roughly as you age. Of course if the investments do well in a particular year it might be 4-5 k less as the gains take away from the following years allowing contrinbution. The guy said expect to be able to put in 70 + or - a few grand a year. Since I am solo i dont have to pay for any employees portion. I was quoted 3400 year 1 costs since it includes setup/annual fee then 1700 thereafter all tax deductible.

I think that's a good deal for 70k tax deferred roughly especially after the first year and not having to shell out any $ for employees since they are not eligible if not full time per the rules.
 
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finalpsychyear

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If he is talking about a solo 401k then any employer portion isn't "free money" as it comes out of the business profits. It is pretty much just a tax avoidance vehicle.
Yeah no free money :(
 
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finalpsychyear

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I was referring to the Cash Balance plan. If that defined contribution requires having that account, it could be worth the hassle. But if he's a 1099 employee, then I'm a little confused why the employer would be chipping in in the first place, hence the confusion why this sales person is offering both Cash Balance and Solo 401k accounts if they're part of the same IRS bucket.

Edit: If I'm reading up Cash Balance plans correctly, they offer an additional bucket with potentially $150,000 in pre-tax contributions per year? If so, that's likely worth doing. OP hasn't given details on how the Cash Balance Plan is set up.
Hi check this link out. It can theoretically be even higher than 150k it really depends on your age. For 150 you'd need to be 49 yo but if you did it at 55 it would be 200 ish.

 
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Seems worth doing then! I guess you can still set up your Solo 401k on your own instead of going through the same folks doing the Cash Balance.
 

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I was referring to the Cash Balance plan. If that defined contribution requires having that account, it could be worth the hassle. But if he's a 1099 employee, then I'm a little confused why the employer would be chipping in in the first place, hence the confusion why this sales person is offering both Cash Balance and Solo 401k accounts if they're part of the same IRS bucket.

Edit: If I'm reading up Cash Balance plans correctly, they offer an additional bucket with potentially $150,000 in pre-tax contributions per year? If so, that's likely worth doing. OP hasn't given details on how the Cash Balance Plan is set up.
So was I. The "employer portion" for any retirement plan for self employed folks comes from us as the employer in addition to us as the employee for employee contributions
 

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So was I. The "employer portion" for any retirement plan for self employed folks comes from us as the employer in addition to us as the employee for employee contributions
I'm confused why you're responding to me when I 100% agree with this.

My confusion earlier was I wasn't familiar with how a Cash Balance Plan relates to self-employed folks. If OP isn't W-2, what's preventing him/her from shopping around at other companies for a Cash Balance Plan? Why go specifically with the one company in question?
 

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I'm confused why you're responding to me when I 100% agree with this.

My confusion earlier was I wasn't familiar with how a Cash Balance Plan relates to self-employed folks. If OP isn't W-2, what's preventing him/her from shopping around at other companies for a Cash Balance Plan? Why go specifically with the one company in question?
Cash balance plans are complicated and require an actuary and specialized tax reporting so they all have big startup and yearly management fees. No reason to be stuck with just one company but there are fewer options than for solo 401k. They are a version of a
defined benefit plan.
 

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What exactly do you mean by cash balance plan? I'm a little confused.

If you have not established the plan, then establish one at Fidelity. You can do it yourself. Roll your SEP into it (that's what I did), wait a few months, then amend the plan to Vanguard (what I did). I now have a Roth Solo 401(k) with Vanguard. Was super easy to do. Basically there are two "accounts" listed with Vanguard for my Solo 401(k) -- traditional and Roth portions. Employer contributions can be mixed between traditional and Roth (up to 19k/yr) and traditional for employer (up to 56k minus employee contributions).

The backdoor Roth is also easy. Establish a traditional IRA, make your contribution, wait until it clears, then immediately convert to a Roth. You may have a few pennies in interest that you will convert as well. Not a big deal.

You could have the ultimate Roth conversion by converting your SEP to a Roth (depending on amount). Would be a mega Roth conversion, but may benefit you later in life. Evaluate carefully as tax implications are huge.
 

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What exactly do you mean by cash balance plan? I'm a little confused.

If you have not established the plan, then establish one at Fidelity. You can do it yourself. Roll your SEP into it (that's what I did), wait a few months, then amend the plan to Vanguard (what I did). I now have a Roth Solo 401(k) with Vanguard. Was super easy to do. Basically there are two "accounts" listed with Vanguard for my Solo 401(k) -- traditional and Roth portions. Employer contributions can be mixed between traditional and Roth (up to 19k/yr) and traditional for employer (up to 56k minus employee contributions).

The backdoor Roth is also easy. Establish a traditional IRA, make your contribution, wait until it clears, then immediately convert to a Roth. You may have a few pennies in interest that you will convert as well. Not a big deal.

You could have the ultimate Roth conversion by converting your SEP to a Roth (depending on amount). Would be a mega Roth conversion, but may benefit you later in life. Evaluate carefully as tax implications are huge.
Cash balance plan is a type of defined plan. Separate and in addition to the 401k (roth and regular) which let's you put away even more money but comes with lots of fees and strings.
 

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So you're talking about a Defined Benefit Plan? I've never heard it called a "cash balance plan" before.

You need an administrator for that. The tax implications of messing up can be immense. Your employer contributions to a Solo 401(k) are reduced when contributing to a DBP.
 

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So you're talking about a Defined Benefit Plan? I've never heard it called a "cash balance plan" before.

You need an administrator for that. The tax implications of messing up can be immense. Your employer contributions to a Solo 401(k) are reduced when contributing to a DBP.
It is one version of a dbp. One type shoots for a certain monthly annuitynpayment I guess and this one shoots for a certain cash amount at retirement (that you could then in theory roll it into a different account)
 
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finalpsychyear

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Etrade has a regular 401k and a Roth 401k option. I opened both for no money and no annual fees. I haven't even had to pay for any trades because they offer free ones along with the mutual fund and etfs that are free always.

I am trying to make a final decision about all these custodians is there any reason no one mentions TD ameritrade since they have both solo 401k and roth 401k and they take rollovers and there is no set up or annual fees with them either? I'm guessing i could just jump ship later anyhow to e-trade or schwaub since they take roll overs.

I also found out I just need to have adoption agreements signed by Dec 31 if i go with E-trade/Schwaub since the actual account opening won't happen till January most likely due to processing time.

If i don't do the above on my own I will have the same person running my cash balance plan due my customized 401k adoption agreements for a 500 set up and 500 annual fee so 1000 bucks for 2019 but they have been very nice and are not pushing it at all but did mention it might be easier for me to have them do it this time and i can always take over next year or not have them manage it going forward but are there to help if i want only.
 

dpmd

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I am trying to make a final decision about all these custodians is there any reason no one mentions TD ameritrade since they have both solo 401k and roth 401k and they take rollovers and there is no set up or annual fees with them either? I'm guessing i could just jump ship later anyhow to e-trade or schwaub since they take roll overs.

I also found out I just need to have adoption agreements signed by Dec 31 if i go with E-trade/Schwaub since the actual account opening won't happen till January most likely due to processing time.

If i don't do the above on my own I will have the same person running my cash balance plan due my customized 401k adoption agreements for a 500 set up and 500 annual fee so 1000 bucks for 2019 but they have been very nice and are not pushing it at all but did mention it might be easier for me to have them do it this time and i can always take over next year or not have them manage it going forward but are there to help if i want only.
I don't think I came across td Ameritrade when I was researching who I could set up my solo 401k with. Schwab wasn't doing it they way I needed when I started mine otherwise I would have stayed with them (I had my first account with them at age 18 when my work had a profit sharing plan). Etrade was very quick about getting things set up last minute when I started mine.
 
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