Some med students don't deserve to be in med school

[deleted212839]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc. (I'm not gonna tell exactly what they did, for it could reveal my identity).

Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

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[MetabolismASE]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

If someone is rude and being disrespectful multiple times they need to be taken care of.

 

[Mbeas]

 

[DrYoda]

First:

Second: If they kick out a current med student it's not like they're going to admit someone else, the class number just goes from 150 to 149.

 

[deleted212839]

Third: They do Medicine & the world a favor if they kick the bad ones out.

 

[fahimaz7]

This is a funny thread. You mean there are people in medical school that act like they are 20 years old sometimes? Maybe that's b/c they are! Also, as a MS2 I can say that most of our class does a damn good job of being professional, courteous, and thoughtful.

 

[45408]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.

What do you want them to do? Expel these people for being late? What kinds of rules/policies are you even talking about?

Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

There aren't plenty of others with stellar stats and better personalities, or else those people probably would have been admitted.

Showing up late to class doesn't make you a bad doctor.

 

[coldweatherblue]

*Undergrad students who don't have the insight to know when they are making uninformed, broad generalizations of a group of people don't deserve to be in med school.*

actually no i don't believe that either.

*People who don't matriculate to med school don't deserve to be in med school.*

that sounds better.

Also, people who have a fulfilled, balanced, happy life probably don't deserve med school either. Nobody deserves that horrible fate!

 

[Sesom]

Many that are accepted deserve rejection, and some that are rejected deserve acceptance. Can you give it to them, Sho? Do not be too eager to deal out med school judgments. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that med students will have a role to play in this, before it is over. The pity of students may rule the fate of many.


-Gandalf(revised)

 

[2sk0ol4c0ol]

Not being a smart-a** or anything, but of course there are! In every school, in every job, field, or vocation there is someone that is incompetent, uncooperative and/or just sucks at their job.

I go to a 'prestigious' school that has well-known engineering, pharmacy, and vet schools. I look at some of the people admitted to this school and I just have no idea how they got here. Some don't care and some just do not have the talent to pursue the career they are here for.

Anyway, that's how it is and I'm sorry that you have to deal with these people but if dealing with people who lie, are uncooperative, and don't listen to clearly laid out rules bothers you, well you probably won't like medicine (or any other field for that matter). Thoss will be distinct qualities of some of your patients.

That's life for you. It really shouldn't matter as long as what they do has a direct negative impact on your performance. Keep your integrity and dismiss all those who have none.

 

[IncantoCharms]

Becoming a good doctor is also a process, not a light switch. They're at the very beginning of their medical education. Who are you to say they will be terrible doctors? You, on the other hand, come off really judgmental and sound exactly like the type of doctor I've met who will gossip about your fat patient as soon as they leave the clinic. Get off your high horse.

 

[Old Grunt]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

I guess it would depend on what degree of rules/policy were broken. As for being late, that's hardly limited to med students and I don't think it's cause to boot someone out of the profession.

As for the larger sentiment that some people don't deserve their station in life. That's also not unique to medical school.

Life. It's unfair. Deal with it.

When you get to your clinicals, the students tend to police themselves, or at least should. As that's the time when tardiness or absence really starts to screw over the people that are doing the right thing. My attitude is to approach the person directly about something and not whine to a higher up. I'd want the same done for me if I were delinquent in something. That's the professional way to deal with it.

 

[Gannador]

Your verbal score makes me doubt your ability to judge the worthiness of medical students as a pre-med.

 

[Mbeas]

^ low blow

 

[patel2]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Your verbal score makes me doubt your ability to judge the worthiness of medical students as a pre-med.

I lol'd.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I guess my question is how do you even have this information that you're citing? You haven't taken the MCAT yet, how do you know the attendance habits of current medical students?

Also, it's pretty special to start a thread invoking Burnett's Law right out of the starting blocks. Righteous indignation win!

 

[blah2537]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

These threads are always started by people who don't have the stats to get in and rather than bucking up and facing the music, doing what it takes to get in they decide that those who where already accepted don't deserve it because they know they will be better doctors. Ready for some truth? Med schools decided even when they are late they are stronger applicants. Buck up.

 

[DoctwoB]

Many that are accepted deserve rejection, and some that are rejected deserve acceptance. Can you give it to them, Sho? Do not be too eager to deal out med school judgments. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that med students will have a role to play in this, before it is over. The pity of students may rule the fate of many.


-Gandalf(revised)

Win.

 

[fahimaz7]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

From 2009:

cGPA 3.50
sGPA 3.45
MCAT 10B 9P 6V

Did you take the MCAT in May of 2009 as you said you were going to? I see you are getting ready to do it again, so I take it that's three times? Why are you so mad again? Is it that people with better grades and scores are now in medical school, and they don't like to go to class?

 

[MCAT guy]

From 2009:

cGPA 3.50
sGPA 3.45
MCAT 10B 9P 6V

Did you take the MCAT in May of 2009 as you said you were going to? I see you are getting ready to do it again, so I take it that's three times? Why are you so mad again? Is it that people with better grades and scores are now in medical school, and they don't like to go to class?

Let the man leave with some dignity people.

I think he realizes his earlier error.

 

[blah2537]

From 2009:

cGPA 3.50
sGPA 3.45
MCAT 10B 9P 6V

Did you take the MCAT in May of 2009 as you said you were going to? I see you are getting ready to do it again, so I take it that's three times? Why are you so mad again? Is it that people with better grades and scores are now in medical school, and they don't like to go to class?

Imagine this though if he/she manages to get an interview if they ask "Why should we take you?" He/she can say "Because I will show up for class on time." That is a solid response.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I personally know some med students who intentionally broke rules/class policy, and those who were late to class/appointment/conference numerous times, etc etc.
The most they got was a slight reprimand via email.
Sure med schools want their students to graduate and keep the school's prestige. But it's not "right" to keep those people who are unprofessional and probably WON'T make good doctors in med school while there're plenty of others who have stellar stats and better personalities to take their place.

Wow...I didn't even go to class most of second year. I'm late sometimes because I'm tired. I've even purposely scheduled doctors appointments during rotations I didn't like just to get out early. I've never been reprimanded at all.

*gasp* I'm going to be a bad doctor :'( And apparently I have a bad personality. I guess the residency I just matched into didn't realize that.

I personally know 104 medical students who have been late numerous times, occasionally act like unprofessional idiots and they even get drunk sometimes! Thats how many people are in my class.

I'm sorry you didn't get accepted, but get over yourself. Medical schools have been doing this for dozens of years - they know the things that predict successful completion of medical school and residency. MCAT score and GPA are on that list, promptness to every class ever attended is not.

 

[g8orlife]

I guess my question is how do you even have this information that you're citing? You haven't taken the MCAT yet, how do you know the attendance habits of current medical students?

Also, it's pretty special to start a thread invoking Burnett's Law right out of the starting blocks. Righteous indignation win!

Dang! You beat moi to it! OP matched the Burnett's Law record!

But, OP isn't just your average SDN user ... He is a psychic who can predict how students will behave >5 years in the future without ever knowing them personally. He foresees all future horrible doctors!

 

[deleted212839]

I appreciate your pulling up my stats 2 years ago, if that helped you at all in your argument

It's sad how some of you - in defense of your position - went too far as to say that "people with better grades make better doctors" and disregarded professionalism completely.

But, OP isn't just your average SDN user ... He is a psychic who can predict how students will behave >5 years in the future without ever knowing them personally. He foresees all future horrible doctors!

Sorry, that's exactly what adcoms do.
Well, no one can fully grasp a person's character after a 30-minute interview. Adcoms look at someone's stats and give him an OK to an interview, but they'll never know how he'll behave once he's in; the latter needs to be given consideration.
Being late was not the reason they should be expelled. I'm not gonna tell exactly what they did, for it could reveal my identity.
Determined rule breaking is an indication of unprofessionalism that is a prediction of how they'll behave in their career.

 

[ButImLETired]

It's funny how some of you - in defense of your position - went too far as to say that "people with better grades make better doctors" and disregarded professionalism completely.
And I appreciate your pulling up my stats 2 years ago, if that helped you at all in your argument

Sorry, that's exactly what adcoms do.
It's necessary to point out that no one can fully grasp a person's character after a 30-minute interview. Adcoms look at someone's stats and give him an OK to an interview, but they'll never know how he'll behave once he's in; the latter needs to be given consideration.
Being late was not the reason they should be expelled. I'm not gonna tell exactly what they did, for it could reveal my identity.
Determined rule breaking is an indication of unprofessionalism that is a prediction of how they'll behave in their career.

...according to whom?

I think determined judginess, low verbal scores and intolerance for others' faults is a better prediction of poor performance as a physician. Neener neener.

 

[gravitywave]

Neener neener.

i lol ed

 

[getdown]

...according to whom?

I think determined judginess, low verbal scores and intolerance for others' faults is a better prediction of poor performance as a physician. Neener neener.

Wow... just wow... You gonna make the dude cry if you keep this up. lol.

 

[deleted212839]

...according to whom?
I think determined judginess, low verbal scores and intolerance for others' faults is a better prediction of poor performance as a physician. Neener neener.

"Judginess" is not a word.

Agree everything you've said; you may as well want to add "arrogance, dishonesty and unprofessionalism", probably because some people feel like they know everything since they have been/completed medical program.

It's easy to praise someone to their face. It's not as easy to tell them they're doing a bad job.
Students at medical school are expected to behave as professionals. Even if you're not the smartest 3rd-year to don a short white coat, not knowing answers does not make you a bad medical student. Attitude and work ethic count for a lot!

Study reveals that medical students who show unprofessional behavior are more likely to turn into doctors who get disciplined for unprofessional behavior:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-12-21-bad-docs_x.htm
...

 

[fahimaz7]

"Judginess" is not a word.

Agree everything you've said; you may as well want to add "arrogance, dishonesty and unprofessionalism", probably because some people feel like they know everything since they have been/completed medical program.

It’s easy to praise someone to their face. It’s not as easy to tell them they’re doing a bad job.
Students at medical school are expected to behave as professionals. Even if you're not the smartest 3rd-year to don a short white coat, not knowing answers does not make you a bad medical student. Attitude and work ethic count for a lot!

Study reveals that medical students who show unprofessional behavior are more likely to turn into doctors who get disciplined for unprofessional behavior:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-12-21-bad-docs_x.htm
...

The difference here is that you are trying to connect people not going to class, and/or being late to a meeting, as something that you can face the honor council and the dean of the medical school for, which isn't the case.

Perhaps you should get to medical school before you try and act like you know what you are talking about. Our honor council made a judgement of "guilty" this year, and it was the FIRST time in three years that they did so.

 

[deleted212839]

Our honor council made a judgement of "guilty" this year, and it was the FIRST time in three years that they did so.

What was the offense?

 

[ButImLETired]

"Judginess" is not a word.

Agree everything you've said; you may as well want to add "arrogance, dishonesty and unprofessionalism", probably because some people feel like they know everything since they have been/completed medical program.

It’s easy to praise someone to their face. It’s not as easy to tell them they’re doing a bad job.
Students at medical school are expected to behave as professionals. Even if you're not the smartest 3rd-year to don a short white coat, not knowing answers does not make you a bad medical student. Attitude and work ethic count for a lot!

Study reveals that medical students who show unprofessional behavior are more likely to turn into doctors who get disciplined for unprofessional behavior:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-12-21-bad-docs_x.htm
...

Oooh them are fightin' words, friend. Bold move.

 

[blah2537]

What was the offense?

Don't you mean what was the school so maybe you can apply there and tell them you would be professional? Cuzz really that is what this comes down to for you. You think ADCOMS use the criteria for accepting students. Bitter bitter.

 

[patel2]

"Judginess" is not a word.

Agree everything you've said; you may as well want to add "arrogance, dishonesty and unprofessionalism", probably because some people feel like they know everything since they have been/completed medical program.

It's easy to praise someone to their face. It's not as easy to tell them they're doing a bad job.
Students at medical school are expected to behave as professionals. Even if you're not the smartest 3rd-year to don a short white coat, not knowing answers does not make you a bad medical student. Attitude and work ethic count for a lot!

Study reveals that medical students who show unprofessional behavior are more likely to turn into doctors who get disciplined for unprofessional behavior:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-12-21-bad-docs_x.htm
...

u mad I learned most of my professionalism from this book?

 

[45408]

Being late was not the reason they should be expelled. I'm not gonna tell exactly what they did, for it could reveal my identity.

Yes, because a roving adcom on SDN might try to root you out and bar you from their school forever.

"....for it could reveal my identity" sounds like a great line from a Shakespeare play though.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

forsooth!

 

[aSagacious]

I apologize to everyone in advance for providing serious response to a troll-ish thread, but:

OP, though in a perfect world it would be nice to have the most amiable, humanitarian, and selfless individuals comprise a class, the objective measurement of personality traits is still something that eludes our society.

Until you can come up with something better than an interview, history of public service, and a series of essays we are forced to settle with what we've got. Do you suggest submitting a personality profile with our applications? Or perhaps 5 additional LORs speaking to our professional demeanor rather than our academic capacity?

Yes, the current admissions process is not perfect (far from it), but as was mentioned earlier, most AdComs have been doing this for a long time.

 

[deleted212936]

You can teach Medicine to a person but you can't teach character.

I can't believe there are students in med school who seriously think
- 'No money = no treatment = fair game' in regards to uninsured patients who need emergency interventions, or
- doctors shouldn't be disciplined for posting a patient's pictures on Facebook, and their reason being: "because I spent so much money on my education" or "there is a shortage of physicians".
To think that these people will one day practice Medicine is scary.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

I agree with the OP that there are some med students who do not deserve their acceptances (a parent is a professor at the school, a family friend is on the adcom, a relative makes a huge donation, etc.) but the reasons s/he cited are purely laughable. OP should worry less about the med students that don't deserve to be there, and start to worry more about being an applicant that doesn't deserve to ever get there, because s/he is setting himself up to join the vast ranks of "the rejected".

 

[Analytic]

This is a funny thread. You mean there are people in medical school that act like they are 20 years old sometimes? Maybe that's b/c they are! Also, as a MS2 I can say that most of our class does a damn good job of being professional, courteous, and thoughtful.

I know plenty of mature people in their twenties, many of whom are more professionally adept than their parents. Are you asserting that being in one's twenties forces one to behave a certain way?

 

[rhesuspieces]

I know plenty of mature people in their twenties, many of whom are more professionally adept than their parents. Are you asserting that being in one's twenties forces one to behave a certain way?

Sometimes I feel mature and professional but then I take a look at my driver's license, see "1989," and suddenly find myself downing Jag-bombs and flirting with a guy in an Ed Hardy t-shirt.

 

[Kaustikos]

Sometimes I feel mature and professional but then I take a look at my driver's license, see "1989," and suddenly find myself downing Jag-bombs and flirting with a guy in an Ed Hardy t-shirt.

Jersey Shore crew INCOMING!

 

[Mornhavon]

.

 

[oar2386]

I appreciate your pulling up my stats 2 years ago, if that helped you at all in your argument

It's sad how some of you - in defense of your position - went too far as to say that "people with better grades make better doctors" and disregarded professionalism completely.

Sorry, that's exactly what adcoms do.
Well, no one can fully grasp a person's character after a 30-minute interview. Adcoms look at someone's stats and give him an OK to an interview, but they'll never know how he'll behave once he's in; the latter needs to be given consideration.
Being late was not the reason they should be expelled. I'm not gonna tell exactly what they did, for it could reveal my identity.
Determined rule breaking is an indication of unprofessionalism that is a prediction of how they'll behave in their career.

Are you superman?

 

[searun]

You know what is really sad? How many of you have sat by a trout stream in Oregon, watched the sun start to set, tied on a size 14 fly, got high on the sunset and watched the sunlight dance off the water, waded out chest high in cold clear water, and then caught and released a 17 inch native cutthroat trout. I am on the East Coast for the next 5 years for residency, but you are damn sure I am doing this again when I am done.

 

[darlin]

Many that are accepted deserve rejection, and some that are rejected deserve acceptance. Can you give it to them, Sho? Do not be too eager to deal out med school judgments. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that med students will have a role to play in this, before it is over. The pity of students may rule the fate of many.


-Gandalf(revised)

This is good stuff! Pretty much summed up everything this thread needed to say. lotr ftw

'Cause we alphas.

There is that.

 

[rhcarolina]

Just look at Ms. Wallace and her previous school of attendance, UCLA. Despite there being overwhelming video evidence of her under-qualifications, we shouldn't judge.

She got expelled??

 

[wolverinepwns]

and Children in Africa don't deserve to starve to death, Dolphins and sharks don't deserve to be slayed. ITS LIFE.

 

[rhcarolina]

She withdrew due to death threats. She had to be escorted to her exams, lol. Poor girl.

Hopefully she could study for them!