Southern Surgery Y'all

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Glass Half MD?

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I'm starting M4 year now and I was considering doing my gen surg residency in the south. I would like any input on what you think some strong programs in general surgery are in the south and maybe even a rank list based off info you found out. Thanks
 
Top programs in South really depends on the type of program you want. Not all are created the same, yet all will provide excellent surgery education. Here's a start list. No order in mind

UAB
UNC
MUSC
Duke
Wake Forest
Emory
UF

Miami is a nice program too, but the hospital stinks.
 
[start big sisterly warning of the day:]

Watch out for picking a program based on "how big it is" or the fact that everyone's heard of the name. This does not equate to a good training experience. *Before I get flamed* YES, there are exceptions to the rule, but there is NO WAY you can judge a program unless you (or someone you know well) has spent significant time there. Any 'academic center' where you spend a significant amount of time in a county hospital, well, get ready to be doing the mind-numbing mundane social work & scut for a few pleasure-filled years.

There is good operating to be done in the South and there are academic institutions with "big names." Don't make the mistake of beleiving that they are always one and the same.

[/end big sisterly warning of the day]
 
While I agree with Foxy that you must also try to evaluate the program by reputation, I disagree that county hospital makes a bad experience. In fact, I think a county hospital/VA makes a program stronger, because those are places where residents tend to get a lot of autonomy.

I went to med school in the south, at a program with both a county hospital and VA. I'm now an intern at a program much farther north, but also a place that has no resident autonomy. I can tell you that the skills of the residents at every level (including the about to graduate chiefs) are far, far behind the skills of the residents where I went to school. The residents there run the show. Here, you just do what the attending tells you to do. Plus, things are more subdivided here. (eg I know in several southern programs the trauma surgeons do most of the vascular repairs on vascular injuires. They also don't hesitate to operate on chest injuries. Up north, you have to call the vascular surgeon or CT surgery for those things, even if there is nobody on in house call for those specialites)

I think southern programs tend to allow more autonomy than the rest of the country.

Bottom line: I wish I had stayed in the south!
 
If you consider Texas to be the South, as opposed to the West, then look at UTSW in Dallas and Baylor in Houston. Both are definitely two of the stronger programs in the country.
 
You have to look a little past the surface. For example, at Duke, it's a 7 year program, with 2 required years of research after the PGY-2 year. Just recently, they've relaxed the 2 years of research rule for residents coming in with a PhD.
 
supercut said:
I disagree that county hospital makes a bad experience. In fact, I think a county hospital/VA makes a program stronger, because those are places where residents tend to get a lot of autonomy.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one as that has not been my experience at all as a resident. Quite the opposite, actually. This is institution dependent, I admit, but my point to the younger people out there is that choosing a residency is something where it'd be real wise to go in with your eyes wide open.
 
Our county hospital is hands-down the best place that our residents rotate. The surgical volume isn't as high as at our parent institution, but that is more than compensated by the autonomy and continuity of care provided there.

I believe that Texas is in the south. Texas A&M and UT-San Antonio are both worth considering.
 
Top programs to consider:

Louisville

UNC
Duke
Wake

Alabama

UTSW
Baylor-Houston
Baylor-Dallas
UTHouston
Galveston

UVa

Vandy

Emory

Things to consider: #1 can I live in this location for 5+ years. What kind of CT experience do you want as a categorical? County vs. Private. Trauma experience. Also-do you want to go to a program that from day one will try and force you into academics or do you want a program that will give you the option or do you want to fight an uphill battle to try and find research opportunities. Financial stability of the hospital/program. Relative stability of the faculty-vertical moves are good, horizontal moves can be a bad sign.
 
Ask 10 people tomorrow to draw you a map of the "south" and you will get 10 different maps. I guarantee it.

Gross generalizations like these could be misleading. Unless you visit the program (which is still a woefully inadequate indicator but the best available), ask about housestaff operative experience, exposure and autonomy, and the key question-where the chiefs ended up, then I think you have to go beyond inaccurate reflections. Some programs (Pitt?) have ABSITE scores in the 90s but when it comes to the technical aspects, the residents are not too good with the hands.
Although our program director is not a proponent of extramurals because they can do more harm than good in most cases, it might be more bang for your buck to do one at a "Southern" program.
 
Pilot Doc said:
Why would an away rotation be more useful in the South?

An away rotation would probably be useful if you're shooting for a specific program. Say you really want to go to Duke or UAB, it's an opportunity to impress them as well as getting to know the program better.

To clarify what our PD advocates: He believes one month is simply not enough. That's plenty of time to make a bad impression and not enough time to make a good one, by the time you learn the ropes, the rotations is already over. You're going to go out of your way to look good and it ends up backfiring. I don't necessarily agree, but he mentions some points that are worth considering.
 
Away rotations can be an opportunity to see how things are done at different institution. I did an away rotation at UAB fall of 4th year it was a great experience. You have the opportunity to see how you would fit in with the program much better than you have on a one day interview. The truth is that anyone can polish a turd for one day, but over the course of a 4 weeks you can see some of the truth of a program. The downside is that the residents and attendings can also see the good and bad in the applicant doing an away so it is a two sided sword.
 
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