Southwestern vs Dell vs UT Houston

[En_Stem_Me]

I need help in deciding y'all. UT student. I pre matched to all three an d I'm having so many problems deciding.

I know mine, but I would love to hear y'all's reasoning/ a new perspective.

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[Cookie04]

Go to UTSW so that way a spot opens up for me at Dell. Problem solved.

Just kidding, but on a serious note I can't really help you out here. I'm personally biased towards Dell because I love Austin and I love UT in general. There are risks with attending the school, but I think the risks are very minimal. Yes it's brand new, but Dell is going to make sure that all of their students do well especially since they need to establish their reputation. Dell won't have as much volume when it comes to clinical rotation sites, but there will be less students (since each class will only be 50 students for the next 4 years) doing clinical rotations so it kind of balances out. Also you won't have any students above you to ask for advice if you ever needed it.

UTSW is great, but it was just too far from home for me. They have tons of volume when it comes to clinical rotations just because they get so many different types of patients with different pathologies (Houston is the same way of course). I'm not that big into research, so I just felt like I didn't really fit with all of the current students. Also some of the students seemed a little disconnected...maybe they were really stressed?

UT Houston- One of the most laid back interview days I ever had.Great students, great faculty, awesome rotation sites at the TMC. An established institution with tons of organizations and groups to get involved in just because of the huge class size. New curriculum so the incoming class won't have that awful block schedule.

Sooo in conclusion....Dell/ UTH > UTSW
But this is just my personal opinion, your reasoning might be completely different.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

I would have to say I agree with Cookie.

I absolutely love what Dell is doing/will do. It's miles ahead of the curve. One thing that has helped me is to look at rankings of UT-Austin's other professional programs. They have the 4th best pharmacy school, the 27th best nursing school, the 17th best business school etc, etc.

Plain and simple, UT Austin's med school is going to be a beast. It won't take as long to get ranked due to the undergraduate affiliation, I predict. Also, the Seton medical center will have everything you need, including residency programs, level-1 trauma, and plenty of pathology. I mean, Austin is nice, but it's still a big city with slums and crime, which is great from a medical training perspective.

Houston has the TMC, which is hands down superior clinical exposure. They just got a huge 75 million dollar endowment, which could result in more scholarships or residency spot. There is also pretty cheap living if you can snag the university housing. The new curriculum is very sexy as well.

For me, I don't have a prematch at UTSW (yet?) since my interview was the first date after the first prematch slot, but I gotta say I love the school. It's close to home, I plan on doing quite a bit of research in med school, and the new hospitals are awesome. Also, the pass/fail is amazing, idk if Dell will be implementing that (I hope so!)

If I had to rank, I would say Dell/UTSW>UTH.

 

[Bio4]

Also, the pass/fail is amazing, idk if Dell will be implementing that (I hope so!)

It is P/F because of the brand new curriculum.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

It is P/F because of the brand new curriculum.

Really?? Where did you find this out? I can't find anything about P/F on the website.

 

[En_Stem_Me]

Really?? Where did you find this out? I can't find anything about P/F on the website.

Pretty sure they told us pass fail. Only the second year will be graded as per the admissions peeps. Keep the advice coming though y'all I really appreciate it.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Pretty sure they told us pass fail. Only the second year will be graded as per the admissions peeps. Keep the advice coming though y'all I really appreciate it.

Damn, I missed that when I interviewed. Well, there ya go, another plus for Dell.

 

[ElixirofLife]

I'm a current student at UTSW so there might be a bit of bias but I'll be as objective as possible. I think the #1 most important thing about choosing a med school is fit (the vibe on interview day, the students, location, administration, etc). Secondary is finances. All other things such as prestige and curriculum are secondary because you're more likely to succeed at a school you feel you'll be most happy at. So pick a school based on the above (caveat below).

But I'll add one thing - I'm in the process of thinking through specialties for residency and future career goals, and UTSW will give you a leg up compared to the other two. Personally, I would be pretty reluctant to attend a brand new med school (I obviously did not interview at Dell but I'm sure it will be great). The medical field is pretty rigid when it comes to reputation...if you look at the regard of institutions in the medical community things have been basically stagnant when it comes to rankings. If you survey program directors they will always hold certain institutions as higher regard compared to others. Dell may have a great mission, impressive interview day, state-of-the-art facilities, etc, but the fact is it is pretty much unknown to PD's. Regardless of the backing of Dell it will take quite a few years at the very least to become established. There will also inevitably be kinks in the curriculum and administration as well, which would also make me hesitant. Also the opportunities (research, clinical training, # of faculty) there will definitely not match a more established school like UTSW or UTH so keep this in mind especially if you think you might be considering a competitive specialty as reputation definitely carries weight.

The above is just the unfortunate truth. If Dell or any other newer, lesser established med school gives you terrific vibes (and especially a scholarship to boot) and you're pretty certain you will be happy there then go for it. But I think the reputation component deserves to at least be mentioned and considered as it has direct implications on your career path.

 

[En_Stem_Me]

In general I'm going for internal medicine or pediatrics if that gives you an idea. I also felt like I fit more at Dell/more excited/they gave me money. But you're right, and I'm ambivalent precisely for those reasons.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Unless OP is applying to Harvard, Hopkins, etc I have a hard time believing that the name or prestige of the med school matters as much as his/her personal performance.

If you bust butt to get top notch grades, high step scores, and build a good CV I just can't see someone from in inaugural class based from a reputable, tier-1 school like UT Austin having issues matching to even the most competitive fields. If anything, PDs might be curious to interview someone from Dell because it is new and obviously yielded great residency candidates in that case.

After all, being in an inaugural class of only 50 people has the perk of enabling one to exhibit leadership pretty much anywhere the student wants. Wanna start a club or interest group? Dell has none so go right ahead. Wanna do research? Dell has a brand new research facility being built and, of course, UT is a HUGE research school. Wanna start a community clinic? That's precisely what a school like Dell wants you to do.

Med school will be what you make it anywhere you go, OP. These are just my defenses for Dell. I haven't made up my mind yet either, but you gotta look at it from every angle.

 

[En_Stem_Me]

Bump.

But also I'm Dell vs. Sw now. It seems Dell gets cooler and cooler with the faculty they are hiring. I'm going to go visit southwestern again in a week though. My proximity to the school is inherently biasing my decision making.

 

[asdfqwerty765]

I'm also in the same position, OP! Deciding whether to rank UTSW or Dell first in the match. Prematched for both and received the exact same scholarship amount (half tuition).

It's a great position to be in, but a dilemma nonetheless. I was very impressed by Dell's ambitious vision for changing the face of healthcare, and promoting Austin as a healthy city. It really spoke to the idealist in me Austin also sounds like such a fun city to live and work! In contrast, I had a less positive experience at my UTSW interview (general vibe from students & interviewers, etc).

Despite this, I am currently leaning toward UTSW. Going on other interviews, even very established schools seemed to have trouble transitioning into new curricula, and a lot of changes were made from year 1 into a new curriculum to year 2. There's just so much logistically/administratively that goes into making sure all the pieces are put into place and for nothing to fall through the cracks -- going from theory to practice, essentially.

I truly believe that Dell will quickly rise through the ranks, and has the potential to be a leading innovator that does a lot of good in their community. I'm just not ready to make the leap of faith for their inaugural year. Not yet, anyways.

I say this, but then with every email/post I see regarding Dell, I vacillate. So who knows. haha Would love to hear others' thoughts on the matter!

 

[Cookie04]

Bump.

But also I'm Dell vs. Sw now. It seems Dell gets cooler and cooler with the faculty they are hiring. I'm going to go visit southwestern again in a week though. My proximity to the school is inherently biasing my decision making.

Awww what? I called the admissions office to ask about revisiting the campus before the match day, and I was told that they don't do that (no campus tours ect...) and I have to wait until the official 2nd look in February! I was really disappointed.

 

[En_Stem_Me]

Awww what? I called the admissions office to ask about revisiting the campus before the match day, and I was told that they don't do that (no campus tours ect...) and I have to wait until the official 2nd look in February! I was really disappointed.

Oh I'm just visiting Dallas! I need to make sure the Austin -> Dallas transition won't end me haha

 

[mrowmrow]

This thread is making me sad I don't live in Texas, all these schools sound great

 

[deleted393595]

I need help in deciding y'all. UT student. I pre matched to all three an d I'm having so many problems deciding.

I know mine, but I would love to hear y'all's reasoning/ a new perspective.

UTSW hands down

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

UTSW hands down

What is your reasoning? I am also in the decision making stage and I'm constantly revisiting this thread to get other perspectives.

 

[deleted393595]

What is your reasoning? I am also in the decision making stage and I'm constantly revisiting this thread to get other perspectives.

UTSW has more resources and better brand name for residency placement than UTH and Dell.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

UTSW has more resources and better brand name for residency placement than UTH and Dell.

Better resources in what way? Dell's class size is only 50, you don't think they will have enough resources?

 

[ElixirofLife]

OP, for IM/Peds, any institution would suffice as long as you're not aiming for top programs.

Also w0rldw3y3d, you're clearly siding with Dell and that's definitely respectable. However, your post above is misleading. Take it from a current student about to enter the process who has seen many people go through it already, and who have talked to faculty directly about this topic. The fact that PD's will want to interview grads from Dell because they're curious about their graduations coming from a school affiliated with a well known university is silly. As I said before PD's views of programs are unfortunately very rigid and will likely not change until Dell settles into the medical community (it will take years, maybe decades to become well established). It does not matter if they are associated with UT Austin - that point is basically moot for PD's trying to recruit the best medically trained interns. They will prefer to take students who graduated from tried and true programs with long track records.

The fact that there are no established clubs, organizations at Dell is definitely a con more than a pro. It will take time and resources to get things moving. Sure, students will be able to seek leadership activities easily, but compared to a place like UTSW, where basically all interest groups, organizations, volunteer clinics are well established and appropriately run is definitely something that a well-established school have over an inaugural school. I'm not aware of the research opportunities at Dell, but I would imagine other schools in TX have well-established research programs and faculty and will surely have a leg up.

Again, if you do well at any school including a new school like Dell you will succeed. Where it will make a difference is if you're striving for a competitive program - UTSW will definitely give you an edge if you compare equivalent students at both schools. This is simply a fact. I'm personally very happy with my decision to come to UTSW - the clinical training has been top notch with two new hospitals, and the opportunities are vast. It looks like with the new curriculum and constant improvements, it will get even better for the incoming class. Also if I put myself into the shoes of a premed, I would be very reluctant to pick a new inaugural school, but that's just me.

However, the most important factor is to follow your heart.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

OP, for IM/Peds, any institution would suffice as long as you're not aiming for top programs.

Also w0rldw3y3d, you're clearly siding with Dell and that's definitely respectable. However, your post above is misleading. Take it from a current student about to enter the process who has seen many people go through it already, and who have talked to faculty directly about this topic. The fact that PD's will want to interview grads from Dell because they're curious about their graduations coming from a school affiliated with a well known university is silly. As I said before PD's views of programs are unfortunately very rigid and will likely not change until Dell settles into the medical community (it will take years, maybe decades to become well established). It does not matter if they are associated with UT Austin - that point is basically moot for PD's trying to recruit the best medically trained interns. They will prefer to take students who graduated from tried and true programs with long track records.

The fact that there are no established clubs, organizations at Dell is definitely a con more than a pro. It will take time and resources to get things moving. Sure, students will be able to seek leadership activities easily, but compared to a place like UTSW, where basically all interest groups, organizations, volunteer clinics are well established and appropriately run is definitely something that a well-established school have over an inaugural school. I'm not aware of the research opportunities at Dell, but I would imagine other schools in TX have well-established research programs and faculty and will surely have a leg up.

Again, if you do well at any school including a new school like Dell you will succeed. Where it will make a difference is if you're striving for a competitive program - UTSW will definitely give you an edge if you compare equivalent students at both schools. This is simply a fact. I'm personally very happy with my decision to come to UTSW - the clinical training has been top notch with two new hospitals, and the opportunities are vast. It looks like with the new curriculum and constant improvements, it will get even better for the incoming class. Also if I put myself into the shoes of a premed, I would be very reluctant to pick a new inaugural school, but that's just me.

However, the most important factor is to follow your heart.

Thank you, ElixirofLife. I suppose my optimism is a bit silly and naive, I just figured PDs would share similar curiosity so long as the applicant was competitive. I honestly don't know which way to go at the current time, same as OP. I can say that I like the idea of being a pioneering class at a med school, which is why I defend Dell. Thankfully I have plenty of time to figure it out.

 

[Slack3r]

OP, for IM/Peds, any institution would suffice as long as you're not aiming for top programs.

Also w0rldw3y3d, you're clearly siding with Dell and that's definitely respectable. However, your post above is misleading. Take it from a current student about to enter the process who has seen many people go through it already, and who have talked to faculty directly about this topic. The fact that PD's will want to interview grads from Dell because they're curious about their graduations coming from a school affiliated with a well known university is silly. As I said before PD's views of programs are unfortunately very rigid and will likely not change until Dell settles into the medical community (it will take years, maybe decades to become well established). It does not matter if they are associated with UT Austin - that point is basically moot for PD's trying to recruit the best medically trained interns. They will prefer to take students who graduated from tried and true programs with long track records.

The fact that there are no established clubs, organizations at Dell is definitely a con more than a pro. It will take time and resources to get things moving. Sure, students will be able to seek leadership activities easily, but compared to a place like UTSW, where basically all interest groups, organizations, volunteer clinics are well established and appropriately run is definitely something that a well-established school have over an inaugural school. I'm not aware of the research opportunities at Dell, but I would imagine other schools in TX have well-established research programs and faculty and will surely have a leg up.

Again, if you do well at any school including a new school like Dell you will succeed. Where it will make a difference is if you're striving for a competitive program - UTSW will definitely give you an edge if you compare equivalent students at both schools. This is simply a fact. I'm personally very happy with my decision to come to UTSW - the clinical training has been top notch with two new hospitals, and the opportunities are vast. It looks like with the new curriculum and constant improvements, it will get even better for the incoming class. Also if I put myself into the shoes of a premed, I would be very reluctant to pick a new inaugural school, but that's just me.

However, the most important factor is to follow your heart.

UTSW has top ranked residencies in nearly every field. They are a perennial academic powerhouse, and that kind of pedigree will serve you well in the future, even in "less competitive" fields like IM or peds.

And it's not just the school's reputation that's important, it's the caliber of faculty you will get to interact with (and by extension, receive LORs from). Having a glowing letter from a "household name" is severely underestimated by premeds/MS0s, but the residency match ultimately comes down to who you know/who will vouch for you.

 

[succulentking]

bump

 

[En_Stem_Me]

This thread has been quite the emotional roller coaster for me.

 

[ElixirofLife]

It doesn't matter that Dell doesn't already have an established Student Government or Pediatrics Interest Group, student organizations etc. Those things seem to be fairly irrelevant to medical students in regards to placing at residency. Dell itself has already begun meeting with students to create these things. Those groups are easily created by recruiting doctors (there are thousands of eager ones in Austin). The ability to have a third year to do specialized research into whatever field a Dell student is hoping to place into will put him leagues above any UTSW student. The above UTSW student was concerned Dell wouldn't have enough chance at leadership, when there is an entire year dedicated to a project led by the medical student, an opportunity no UTSW student graduating in four years will get.

Unless you're trying to go to Hopkins for residency, your brand name won't place you out of a spot.
If you're worried about quality faculty of Dell, I wouldn't be. Medicine and operations in Dallas are not different than those used in Austin. Not to mention, Dell has hired hundreds of UTSW-affiliated faculty anyways. Many of the other faculty are from Baylor, UCSF, and Duke, schools with better reputations than UTSW.
http://sites.utexas.edu/ihopedellme...al-school-is-adding-about-600-familiar-faces/

To anyone making this decision, there is the initial avoidance of Dell because it is new. There are mental roadblocks that rise up; however, if you take the time to research these roadblocks and talk to people at Dell that are managing them, you realize these won't be an issue.

It's great that you share enthusiasm towards Dell and it's pretty apparent where you're going to be matriculating, but it doesn't hurt to keep things more objective for those still making up their minds. I applied to med school 3 years ago so obviously I have no clue what Dell has to offer. But your claim about Dell's specialized research putting their students "leagues above" UTSW students is absolutely ridiculous... Regardless of how many faculty Dell ends up recruiting from UTSW itself or from schools with "better reputations", UTSW will have a leg up alone because it is more established with a proven track record as a well regarded premier institution for decades. I'm sure Dell will have some great faculty, a great mission, etc , it will be a long time before garner a name for itself. I'm not sure how Dell plans on implementing their research block, but it's super easy to get involved in research at UTSW (or not be involved if you have zero interest). Med students are a hot commodity here because of the hugely favorable student:faculty ratio here. I imagine with a 1.5 year curriculum that is now complete P/F I think it would be easier than ever to dabble in research in any field here.

Point is, It's pretty much a given UTSW will set you up better for resident when you compare equivalent students when the dust settles. Reputation plays an important role in medicine and the name alone can open/shut doors. It's the honest truth and you're not in a position to say otherwise given you're an MS0. PD's will always recruit students from institutions they have direct experience with. Old habits die hard.

 

[imymemine]

disclosure, i'm a student at southwestern.

if you very strongly prefer austin to dallas and it's cheaper then go there. don't let some stranger on the internet convince you otherwise. any accredited medical school should provide a decent enough experience to give you a chance to be really good by graduation. i am a believer that if you are talented and work hard you should succeed anywhere.

that being said... i just want to point out what i perceive to be some naivete. dell clearly has marketed themselves very well and eloquently provided compelling evidence for why they will be great and how their birth as a medical school will go smoothly. whatever dreams they spin and however much of their kool-aid you drink... they are still an unknown. putting together hundreds of hours of lectures and thousands of pages of syllabi into a balanced schedule is a daunting task and shouldn't be assumed to go seamlessly. when you apply for residencies, most places outside of texas will look at your application and not know what dell is. some may take the time to look it up but most probably won't. what motivation would they have to try to understand the "roadblocks" discussed above, even if everything truly is as great as you say it is? i'm not saying your app automatically will go in the trash, but it would be naive to think this won't be a disadvantage.

be careful about being swayed about new and wonderful sounding curricula. the nuts and bolts of medical school are the places you rotate at and thus the patients you see. if you see a wide variety of patients, are pushed to be involved in their care, have smart attendings and residents around to help guide you, and put in plenty of study time, you will probably turn out pretty well - no matter if you were pass/fail, had a scholarly project, started some leadership position, learned everything on a free ipad, etc. outside of the core clinical experience most of everything else is just marketing fluff and imo is way overrated by applicants.

also be careful about thinking your decision is OK because you "just" want to go into IM or peds. yes any US MD can match into IM or peds somewhere, but these specialties are surprisingly competitive at the more desirable places.

i feel like some applicants see and hear what they want to because they get infatuated with a particular school. that is only natural, but it is silly to think that any medical school is perfect - each has its disadvantages.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

It's great that you share enthusiasm towards Dell and it's pretty apparent where you're going to be matriculating, but it doesn't hurt to keep things more objective for those still making up their minds. I applied to med school 3 years ago so obviously I have no clue what Dell has to offer. But your claim about Dell's specialized research putting their students "leagues above" UTSW students is absolutely ridiculous... Regardless of how many faculty Dell ends up recruiting from UTSW itself or from schools with "better reputations", UTSW will have a leg up alone because it is more established with a proven track record as a well regarded premier institution for decades. I'm sure Dell will have some great faculty, a great mission, etc , it will be a long time before garner a name for itself. I'm not sure how Dell plans on implementing their research block, but it's super easy to get involved in research at UTSW (or not be involved if you have zero interest). Med students are a hot commodity here because of the hugely favorable student:faculty ratio here. I imagine with a 1.5 year curriculum that is now complete P/F I think it would be easier than ever to dabble in research in any field here.

Point is, It's pretty much a given UTSW will set you up better for resident when you compare equivalent students when the dust settles. Reputation plays an important role in medicine and the name alone can open/shut doors. It's the honest truth and you're not in a position to say otherwise given you're an MS0. PD's will always recruit students from institutions they have direct experience with. Old habits die hard.

You have good insight, but at the same time you are also a tad bit of an elitist. There is nothing wrong with that mind you, but it definitely obstructs your attempt at objectivity.

I work very closely with physicians, and have been for years; some even trained at top 20 residency programs. Nearly every one of them confirm that where you go to med school really only matters if you go to a top 10 medical school, applying to Hopkins, etc. With the exception of extremely competitive institutions, where you go to med school matters to residencies about as much as where you went to undergrad mattered to med school. Ultimately it's not like patients care about the prestige of the institution where you got your MD or residency anyway.

UTSW is a great school, but it isn't Harvard or Yale. I know for a fact a chunk of UTSW students do not match to residencies. This reflects the current state of medical training, and I understand this happens everywhere (except Hofstra's inaugural class, Ironically), but not even "name brands" are immune and if you are at UTSW and have lackluster performance, you will have just as much problem matching as the student from other schools with similar stats. Name alone won't save you.

Again, I really appreciate our insight, just wanted to throw my MS-0 two cents out there.

 

[E pur si muove]

I need help in deciding y'all. UT student. I pre matched to all three an d I'm having so many problems deciding.

I know mine, but I would love to hear y'all's reasoning/ a new perspective.

UTSW:

• More money
• More academic resources
• Most prestigious school in Texas (except Baylor)
• Higher STEP 1/2
• Dallas

UTH:

• Largest medical district in the world (more clinical opportunities)
• Houston

Dell:

• Small class (get to know instructors better: more recommendation letters)
• Amazing leadership and faculty
• More clinical experience (could be a negative if the 12 month curriculum is too fast)
• Will grow quickly
• Austin

All are great schools, but Houston wouldn't even be in consideration for me unless I wanted to be in Houston (family, etc).

 

[hotlineBLING]

.

 

[E pur si muove]

May I ask why Houston would not e in consideration?

I just can't think of any benefits of going to Houston over UTSW.

 

[hotlineBLING]

.

 

[E pur si muove]

Does that mean you would rank Dell higher than Houston as well and if so why?

My ranking: UTSW > UT Dell > UTHSCSA > UTH > A&M > TTUHSC > UTMB > UTRGV

I listed some of my reasons above. Also, the opportunity to be the first class seems exciting.

 

[CargoPants]

Disclaimer: I'm also a current UTSouthwestern student and a graduate of UT Austin undergrad. I've been keeping a close eye on Dell since I left Austin through alumni emails, their website, and the fact that I am considering residency at Dell. Here's my take. (I'm completely ignoring UTH as I have no experience/exposure with them)

Dell:
-MS1: Preclinical teaching off a newly designed curriculum from the faculty. There will be unforeseen problems in the curriculum, being new. They may not be major, and STEP studying can be largely self-reliant, but know that these can be extremely frustrating. The DOCS program serves a similar function to UTSW's colleges program, which I have enjoyed. While content will likely be similar, a condensed preclinical (which UTSW's program would also have) will make it that much more difficult to enjoy preclinical year(s). I enjoyed my traditional preclinical years with the freedom of schedule and self-reliance of studying.
-MS2: Clinical. Rotations will be haphazard and will likely be with newer faculty or faculty imported from locations with knowledge of a different curriculum. From what I hear, some UTMB MS3s will continue to rotate through Austin as of now. As an MS2, I would imagine it would be difficult to stand out during this year from the UTMB MS3s without the Step 1 knowledge and experience that they have.
-MS3: Step 1 will probably be at this time. Usually more clinical experience = better step scores. A year for individual research/leadership/dual degree. Obviously a tremendous advantage to the program. Dual degrees may take you 5 years to complete. So basically, 9 months to crank out some publications.
-MS4: Several required rotations. I foresee this will be difficult after taking a year off to do other ventures. But its otherwise projected to be a pretty standard and relaxing fourth year.
-City: Having lived there in undergraduate, there are obviously pros to living in a great city like that. I would definitely consider the city as an important factor if you are single and are looking for undergraduate-aged significant others.
-Classmates: Ideally, the 50 medical students would have a great sense of camaraderie, and I believe that Austin would attract less malignant gunner-style med students than most. 50 medical students may be an advantage in terms of having better interaction with the attendings, but I believe other schools (UTMB) will still be sending many students to rotate through Austin each year for the next few years.
-Cost: see below
-Post-schooling- residencies at Dell are pretty few and poor. They would not set you up well for academic medicine.
-Reputation- Nothing to go off other than the strong undergraduate. With a dual degree, you may be at some advantage of UTSW students outside of the Southwest, but I would put dual degree as less important than LoRs, Step scores.

UTSouthwestern:
-MS1.5: Preclinical. Most likely will learn the same content as Dell's first year. Also relatively newly implemented so problems are being ironed out. Colleges program gives you opportunity to interact with faculty and MS4's, of which there is no shortage of eager volunteers.
-MS2-3: Clinical. Two new hospitals, a large pediatric hospital with a comprehensive assortment of pediatric sub-specialists and access to the VA system.
-MS4: Post-clinical. Less required electives. Required scholarly activity in a number of areas. Too late to put any research or anything on your CV, so this time would be more for personal enrichment/slacking off.
-Classmates: Much better than I expected going into the school. Haven't had any experiences when I was dealing with gunners. Everyone here is extremely smart and knows how to play the game of med school, so my rank may not be as high as if I were to have gone elsewhere, but my classmates also pushed me to be a better student.
-Cost: Scholarships and personal finances will affect your situation uniquely. All Texas schools are great values and I think you know that.
-Post-schooling: Top 10-25 in almost every specialty, and offers basically every specialty. While you may be thinking Pediatrics or Internal Medicine, it is exceedingly common to change your mind during your schooling. The fact that you haven't decided Pediatrics or Internal Medicine specifically makes me think you will not go into either of those. In the case that you do change your mind into something, especially something very competitive (e.g. surgical subspecialties), know that being from the home institution is INVALUABLE. For example I have a friend who is applying into neurosurgery from another school and he is lamenting that last year UTSW filled their residency positions with UTSW grads only.
-Reputation: UTSW has an excellent reputation in the southwest, but I was surprised to here that not many program directors were very familiar with it outside the southwest. It seems that Baylor is the jewel in the southwest, and all others seem to be perceived similarly. Keep this in mind if you are wanting to stay in Texas vs leaving.

Another point to consider: Who will help you if you are struggling? It is an unfortunate reality that many students struggle in medical school, so you will likely know at least one person who needs extra help outside the classroom. UTSW has administrators and tutors who can help students who are struggling/failing, but I doubt Dell will have comparable resources for the foreseeable future. Does Dell have the opportunity to take a year off if you have personal health or family problems?

If I were in your shoes, I would only go to Dell if I was adamant on going to Dell for whatever reason. If I was unsure at all, I would matriculate UTSW.

 

[E pur si muove]

Disclaimer: I'm also a current UTSouthwestern student and a graduate of UT Austin undergrad. I've been keeping a close eye on Dell since I left Austin through alumni emails, their website, and the fact that I am considering residency at Dell. Here's my take. (I'm completely ignoring UTH as I have no experience/exposure with them)

Dell:
-MS1: Preclinical teaching off a newly designed curriculum from the faculty. There will be unforeseen problems in the curriculum, being new. They may not be major, and STEP studying can be largely self-reliant, but know that these can be extremely frustrating. The DOCS program serves a similar function to UTSW's colleges program, which I have enjoyed. While content will likely be similar, a condensed preclinical (which UTSW's program would also have) will make it that much more difficult to enjoy preclinical year(s). I enjoyed my traditional preclinical years with the freedom of schedule and self-reliance of studying.
-MS2: Clinical. Rotations will be haphazard and will likely be with newer faculty or faculty imported from locations with knowledge of a different curriculum. From what I hear, some UTMB MS3s will continue to rotate through Austin as of now. As an MS2, I would imagine it would be difficult to stand out during this year from the UTMB MS3s without the Step 1 knowledge and experience that they have.
-MS3: Step 1 will probably be at this time. Usually more clinical experience = better step scores. A year for individual research/leadership/dual degree. Obviously a tremendous advantage to the program. Dual degrees may take you 5 years to complete. So basically, 9 months to crank out some publications.
-MS4: Several required rotations. I foresee this will be difficult after taking a year off to do other ventures. But its otherwise projected to be a pretty standard and relaxing fourth year.
-City: Having lived there in undergraduate, there are obviously pros to living in a great city like that. I would definitely consider the city as an important factor if you are single and are looking for undergraduate-aged significant others.
-Classmates: Ideally, the 50 medical students would have a great sense of camaraderie, and I believe that Austin would attract less malignant gunner-style med students than most. 50 medical students may be an advantage in terms of having better interaction with the attendings, but I believe other schools (UTMB) will still be sending many students to rotate through Austin each year for the next few years.
-Cost: see below
-Post-schooling- residencies at Dell are pretty few and poor. They would not set you up well for academic medicine.
-Reputation- Nothing to go off other than the strong undergraduate. With a dual degree, you may be at some advantage of UTSW students outside of the Southwest, but I would put dual degree as less important than LoRs, Step scores.

UTSouthwestern:
-MS1.5: Preclinical. Most likely will learn the same content as Dell's first year. Also relatively newly implemented so problems are being ironed out. Colleges program gives you opportunity to interact with faculty and MS4's, of which there is no shortage of eager volunteers.
-MS2-3: Clinical. Two new hospitals, a large pediatric hospital with a comprehensive assortment of pediatric sub-specialists and access to the VA system.
-MS4: Post-clinical. Less required electives. Required scholarly activity in a number of areas. Too late to put any research or anything on your CV, so this time would be more for personal enrichment/slacking off.
-Classmates: Much better than I expected going into the school. Haven't had any experiences when I was dealing with gunners. Everyone here is extremely smart and knows how to play the game of med school, so my rank may not be as high as if I were to have gone elsewhere, but my classmates also pushed me to be a better student.
-Cost: Scholarships and personal finances will affect your situation uniquely. All Texas schools are great values and I think you know that.
-Post-schooling: Top 10-25 in almost every specialty, and offers basically every specialty. While you may be thinking Pediatrics or Internal Medicine, it is exceedingly common to change your mind during your schooling. The fact that you haven't decided Pediatrics or Internal Medicine specifically makes me think you will not go into either of those. In the case that you do change your mind into something, especially something very competitive (e.g. surgical subspecialties), know that being from the home institution is INVALUABLE. For example I have a friend who is applying into neurosurgery from another school and he is lamenting that last year UTSW filled their residency positions with UTSW grads only.
-Reputation: UTSW has an excellent reputation in the southwest, but I was surprised to here that not many program directors were very familiar with it outside the southwest. It seems that Baylor is the jewel in the southwest, and all others seem to be perceived similarly. Keep this in mind if you are wanting to stay in Texas vs leaving.

Another point to consider: Who will help you if you are struggling? It is an unfortunate reality that many students struggle in medical school, so you will likely know at least one person who needs extra help outside the classroom. UTSW has administrators and tutors who can help students who are struggling/failing, but I doubt Dell will have comparable resources for the foreseeable future. Does Dell have the opportunity to take a year off if you have personal health or family problems?

If I were in your shoes, I would only go to Dell if I was adamant on going to Dell for whatever reason. If I was unsure at all, I would matriculate UTSW.

I completely agree with your post. I have noticed that all the UT system medical schools aren't very well known outside the medical/research community, but program directors?! Great advice about doing residency/practicing outside Texas.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Disclaimer: I'm also a current UTSouthwestern student and a graduate of UT Austin undergrad. I've been keeping a close eye on Dell since I left Austin through alumni emails, their website, and the fact that I am considering residency at Dell. Here's my take. (I'm completely ignoring UTH as I have no experience/exposure with them)

Dell:
-MS1: Preclinical teaching off a newly designed curriculum from the faculty. There will be unforeseen problems in the curriculum, being new. They may not be major, and STEP studying can be largely self-reliant, but know that these can be extremely frustrating. The DOCS program serves a similar function to UTSW's colleges program, which I have enjoyed. While content will likely be similar, a condensed preclinical (which UTSW's program would also have) will make it that much more difficult to enjoy preclinical year(s). I enjoyed my traditional preclinical years with the freedom of schedule and self-reliance of studying.
-MS2: Clinical. Rotations will be haphazard and will likely be with newer faculty or faculty imported from locations with knowledge of a different curriculum. From what I hear, some UTMB MS3s will continue to rotate through Austin as of now. As an MS2, I would imagine it would be difficult to stand out during this year from the UTMB MS3s without the Step 1 knowledge and experience that they have.
-MS3: Step 1 will probably be at this time. Usually more clinical experience = better step scores. A year for individual research/leadership/dual degree. Obviously a tremendous advantage to the program. Dual degrees may take you 5 years to complete. So basically, 9 months to crank out some publications.
-MS4: Several required rotations. I foresee this will be difficult after taking a year off to do other ventures. But its otherwise projected to be a pretty standard and relaxing fourth year.
-City: Having lived there in undergraduate, there are obviously pros to living in a great city like that. I would definitely consider the city as an important factor if you are single and are looking for undergraduate-aged significant others.
-Classmates: Ideally, the 50 medical students would have a great sense of camaraderie, and I believe that Austin would attract less malignant gunner-style med students than most. 50 medical students may be an advantage in terms of having better interaction with the attendings, but I believe other schools (UTMB) will still be sending many students to rotate through Austin each year for the next few years.
-Cost: see below
-Post-schooling- residencies at Dell are pretty few and poor. They would not set you up well for academic medicine.
-Reputation- Nothing to go off other than the strong undergraduate. With a dual degree, you may be at some advantage of UTSW students outside of the Southwest, but I would put dual degree as less important than LoRs, Step scores.

UTSouthwestern:
-MS1.5: Preclinical. Most likely will learn the same content as Dell's first year. Also relatively newly implemented so problems are being ironed out. Colleges program gives you opportunity to interact with faculty and MS4's, of which there is no shortage of eager volunteers.
-MS2-3: Clinical. Two new hospitals, a large pediatric hospital with a comprehensive assortment of pediatric sub-specialists and access to the VA system.
-MS4: Post-clinical. Less required electives. Required scholarly activity in a number of areas. Too late to put any research or anything on your CV, so this time would be more for personal enrichment/slacking off.
-Classmates: Much better than I expected going into the school. Haven't had any experiences when I was dealing with gunners. Everyone here is extremely smart and knows how to play the game of med school, so my rank may not be as high as if I were to have gone elsewhere, but my classmates also pushed me to be a better student.
-Cost: Scholarships and personal finances will affect your situation uniquely. All Texas schools are great values and I think you know that.
-Post-schooling: Top 10-25 in almost every specialty, and offers basically every specialty. While you may be thinking Pediatrics or Internal Medicine, it is exceedingly common to change your mind during your schooling. The fact that you haven't decided Pediatrics or Internal Medicine specifically makes me think you will not go into either of those. In the case that you do change your mind into something, especially something very competitive (e.g. surgical subspecialties), know that being from the home institution is INVALUABLE. For example I have a friend who is applying into neurosurgery from another school and he is lamenting that last year UTSW filled their residency positions with UTSW grads only.
-Reputation: UTSW has an excellent reputation in the southwest, but I was surprised to here that not many program directors were very familiar with it outside the southwest. It seems that Baylor is the jewel in the southwest, and all others seem to be perceived similarly. Keep this in mind if you are wanting to stay in Texas vs leaving.

Another point to consider: Who will help you if you are struggling? It is an unfortunate reality that many students struggle in medical school, so you will likely know at least one person who needs extra help outside the classroom. UTSW has administrators and tutors who can help students who are struggling/failing, but I doubt Dell will have comparable resources for the foreseeable future. Does Dell have the opportunity to take a year off if you have personal health or family problems?

If I were in your shoes, I would only go to Dell if I was adamant on going to Dell for whatever reason. If I was unsure at all, I would matriculate UTSW.

Your post is extremely helpful. The new Seton medical center will bring in a level-1 trauma, as well as residencies in just about every field. So maybe that will fix one aspect of residency options in Austin? I'm curious about what makes Dell residencies poor in your opinion?

 

[Spector1]

Southwestern ftw

 

[CargoPants]

Your post is extremely helpful. The new Seton medical center will bring in a level-1 trauma, as well as residencies in just about every field. So maybe that will fix one aspect of residency options in Austin? I'm curious about what makes Dell residencies poor in your opinion?

I am sure residencies will slowly begin to form at Dell. However, for your incoming class, I doubt they could establish a renown, high-quality residency program from scratch in 4 years when you will be applying. If you are going for academics, Dell is a poor choice for residency. If you are going for community/private practice, then any residency is what you make of it.

My opinion was based off a recent interview I had with one of their residency programs. Many of the residency programs were previously under the UT Southwestern (at Austin) name. UTSW was hands off with many of the programs in Austin. The Austin residencies were/are mainly community programs that are slowly transitioning to a more academic focus under the Dell name. The program director at Dell in my desired specialty did not seem to have or know of current plans to move the residency or department forward other than "hiring more faculty". In a time of great transition, I believe it is paramount for the program director to have leadership, excitement, and plans for moving the program forward.

You can PM me if you are still interested in this conversation, but this is well down the line. It is 1 factor to consider at your stage (pre-medical). I am sure UT Houston's residencies are good as well, it will just take a significant time for Dell to grow to that level.

That being said, I will probably look back to Dell after residency for a possible faculty position. EDIT: I believe the best level on which to join Dell and grow the school is at the faculty level where you will be able to reap the benefits 10-20 years down the line.

 

[JBL15TX]

OP, for IM/Peds, any institution would suffice as long as you're not aiming for top programs.

Also w0rldw3y3d, you're clearly siding with Dell and that's definitely respectable. However, your post above is misleading. Take it from a current student about to enter the process who has seen many people go through it already, and who have talked to faculty directly about this topic. The fact that PD's will want to interview grads from Dell because they're curious about their graduations coming from a school affiliated with a well known university is silly. As I said before PD's views of programs are unfortunately very rigid and will likely not change until Dell settles into the medical community (it will take years, maybe decades to become well established). It does not matter if they are associated with UT Austin - that point is basically moot for PD's trying to recruit the best medically trained interns. They will prefer to take students who graduated from tried and true programs with long track records.

The fact that there are no established clubs, organizations at Dell is definitely a con more than a pro. It will take time and resources to get things moving. Sure, students will be able to seek leadership activities easily, but compared to a place like UTSW, where basically all interest groups, organizations, volunteer clinics are well established and appropriately run is definitely something that a well-established school have over an inaugural school. I'm not aware of the research opportunities at Dell, but I would imagine other schools in TX have well-established research programs and faculty and will surely have a leg up.

Again, if you do well at any school including a new school like Dell you will succeed. Where it will make a difference is if you're striving for a competitive program - UTSW will definitely give you an edge if you compare equivalent students at both schools. This is simply a fact. I'm personally very happy with my decision to come to UTSW - the clinical training has been top notch with two new hospitals, and the opportunities are vast. It looks like with the new curriculum and constant improvements, it will get even better for the incoming class. Also if I put myself into the shoes of a premed, I would be very reluctant to pick a new inaugural school, but that's just me.

However, the most important factor is to follow your heart.

While you're very kind, your outlook seems perhaps skewed by your place in the system as of now. Granted you likely are more aware of what is happening right now but by the way you're making it sound, the 'good' medical schools must all be very, very old ones; else, how does any one garner a good reputation if they have no previous graduates? And how does a new school with graduates that didn't match well have impressive graduates (ever) if they always match poorly and are never given the opportunities to excel? It seems to be begging the question, e.g. Med Gen#1 cant match well because his/her school has no esteemed graduates --> Med Gen#1 is not esteemed because they matched poorly to residencies --> Med Gen#2 cant match well because his/her school has no esteemed graduates (Med Gen#1) ---> ad nauseam.

It seems to me a gross oversimplification, is all.

Dell knows whats at stake. I expect there to be a huge emphasis on Step scores at some point (as objectively it will be how the program is judged w/o the cotton candy and glitter), and they seem genuinely willing to provide all those resources to the student at the drop of a hat.

There is something of an intrepid, pioneering spirit that accompanies the idea of attending a new school, in a new (for me) place, and I genuinely believe that those who choose Dell over UTSW, UTH, etc. will be asked why they did so - and that answer will ultimately speak to their character. Which is better doesn't really matter - we're all working toward the same things. Congratulations to everyone that happens to have a predicament that is essentially, "What top (relative to the rest of the world) schools will I attend with the ultimate goal to be employed as a well-compensated, respected, medical physician?"

*first world problems meme*

 

[Slack3r]

Disclaimer: I'm also a current UTSouthwestern student and a graduate of UT Austin undergrad. I've been keeping a close eye on Dell since I left Austin through alumni emails, their website, and the fact that I am considering residency at Dell. Here's my take. (I'm completely ignoring UTH as I have no experience/exposure with them)

Dell:
-MS1: Preclinical teaching off a newly designed curriculum from the faculty. There will be unforeseen problems in the curriculum, being new. They may not be major, and STEP studying can be largely self-reliant, but know that these can be extremely frustrating. The DOCS program serves a similar function to UTSW's colleges program, which I have enjoyed. While content will likely be similar, a condensed preclinical (which UTSW's program would also have) will make it that much more difficult to enjoy preclinical year(s). I enjoyed my traditional preclinical years with the freedom of schedule and self-reliance of studying.
-MS2: Clinical. Rotations will be haphazard and will likely be with newer faculty or faculty imported from locations with knowledge of a different curriculum. From what I hear, some UTMB MS3s will continue to rotate through Austin as of now. As an MS2, I would imagine it would be difficult to stand out during this year from the UTMB MS3s without the Step 1 knowledge and experience that they have.
-MS3: Step 1 will probably be at this time. Usually more clinical experience = better step scores. A year for individual research/leadership/dual degree. Obviously a tremendous advantage to the program. Dual degrees may take you 5 years to complete. So basically, 9 months to crank out some publications.
-MS4: Several required rotations. I foresee this will be difficult after taking a year off to do other ventures. But its otherwise projected to be a pretty standard and relaxing fourth year.
-City: Having lived there in undergraduate, there are obviously pros to living in a great city like that. I would definitely consider the city as an important factor if you are single and are looking for undergraduate-aged significant others.
-Classmates: Ideally, the 50 medical students would have a great sense of camaraderie, and I believe that Austin would attract less malignant gunner-style med students than most. 50 medical students may be an advantage in terms of having better interaction with the attendings, but I believe other schools (UTMB) will still be sending many students to rotate through Austin each year for the next few years.
-Cost: see below
-Post-schooling- residencies at Dell are pretty few and poor. They would not set you up well for academic medicine.
-Reputation- Nothing to go off other than the strong undergraduate. With a dual degree, you may be at some advantage of UTSW students outside of the Southwest, but I would put dual degree as less important than LoRs, Step scores.

UTSouthwestern:
-MS1.5: Preclinical. Most likely will learn the same content as Dell's first year. Also relatively newly implemented so problems are being ironed out. Colleges program gives you opportunity to interact with faculty and MS4's, of which there is no shortage of eager volunteers.
-MS2-3: Clinical. Two new hospitals, a large pediatric hospital with a comprehensive assortment of pediatric sub-specialists and access to the VA system.
-MS4: Post-clinical. Less required electives. Required scholarly activity in a number of areas. Too late to put any research or anything on your CV, so this time would be more for personal enrichment/slacking off.
-Classmates: Much better than I expected going into the school. Haven't had any experiences when I was dealing with gunners. Everyone here is extremely smart and knows how to play the game of med school, so my rank may not be as high as if I were to have gone elsewhere, but my classmates also pushed me to be a better student.
-Cost: Scholarships and personal finances will affect your situation uniquely. All Texas schools are great values and I think you know that.
-Post-schooling: Top 10-25 in almost every specialty, and offers basically every specialty. While you may be thinking Pediatrics or Internal Medicine, it is exceedingly common to change your mind during your schooling. The fact that you haven't decided Pediatrics or Internal Medicine specifically makes me think you will not go into either of those. In the case that you do change your mind into something, especially something very competitive (e.g. surgical subspecialties), know that being from the home institution is INVALUABLE. For example I have a friend who is applying into neurosurgery from another school and he is lamenting that last year UTSW filled their residency positions with UTSW grads only.
-Reputation: UTSW has an excellent reputation in the southwest, but I was surprised to here that not many program directors were very familiar with it outside the southwest. It seems that Baylor is the jewel in the southwest, and all others seem to be perceived similarly. Keep this in mind if you are wanting to stay in Texas vs leaving.

Another point to consider: Who will help you if you are struggling? It is an unfortunate reality that many students struggle in medical school, so you will likely know at least one person who needs extra help outside the classroom. UTSW has administrators and tutors who can help students who are struggling/failing, but I doubt Dell will have comparable resources for the foreseeable future. Does Dell have the opportunity to take a year off if you have personal health or family problems?

If I were in your shoes, I would only go to Dell if I was adamant on going to Dell for whatever reason. If I was unsure at all, I would matriculate UTSW.

UTSW has a strong reputation nationwide. There is no debating this.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

UTSW has a strong reputation nationwide. There is no debating this.

There is also no debating that Dell will eventually be on that level as well. There is not a single program at UT that isn't nationally ranked high. The med school will be no different.

 

[CargoPants]

UTSW has a strong reputation nationwide. There is no debating this.

UTSW has a strong reputation for sure. So does UTH. The rest of the UT system also has a decent reputation. All do pretty well in matching and all would be excellent foundations for a medical education.

I don't think that many would argue, whether it is deserved or not, that Baylor has the best reputation.

 

[Tolerance]

I recently asked the pre-health advisor at my school about my dilemma between Dell and UTSW and how I had great vibes toward Dell and explained what these were, but was still hesitant with it being a new school and all. He has an MD and a PhD and these were his thoughts:

"On one hand Dell is just starting up with their first ever class. What does innovative curriculum really mean? What does financial independence from hospitals really mean and how does that really effect outcomes? What kind of experiment will be you exposed to at Dell? There will be only 50 of you! It does not mean that much that Dell is in Austin. Better than East Texas but its still Austin and it would seem to me like going to UT Austin. UTSW on the other hand, as you pointed out, is probably considered the top school in Texas with Baylor coming in 2nd. Its curriculum and resources for your education is well set with an array of easy access training facilities (hospitals) and better specialist resources. UTSW receives referral patients from all over Texas. I don't know of one hospital in Austin that has the reputation as the ones in Dallas or Houston. Having worked in huge reference training hospitals and also smaller hospitals in Rockford, IL, St Louis, Orlando, Cocoa Beach area hospitals and all Tyler hospitals I can tell you there is a major difference."

This was after I had nearly made up my mind for Dell, so is giving me second thoughts again. I might add that this professor does not just follow the status quo, challenges current medical systems or practices that he sees as unhelpful or misinformed, and encourages students to be independent-minded and research things themselves whenever possible. So, he is definitely someone I feel can be respected from all angles. That being the case, he finished by saying:

"Certainly, I come from the old school and my medical training was 40 years ago so I would suggest go with your gut feeling and hope that it will all work out."

So, though I am still ranking Dell above all the other public Texas med schools at this point, I think I might be going with UTSW as my top pick. However, this may change tomorrow.

 

[limenroses]

Hey ya'll found this online, thought it might be interesting for the conversation.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf
pg 3-4 - value placed on "Graduate of Highly Regarded Medial School"

 

[JBL15TX]

Hey ya'll found this online, thought it might be interesting for the conversation.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf
pg 3-4 - value placed on "Graduate of Highly Regarded Medial School"

Looks like half didn't cite it as a factor. Interesting.

 

[Whatyousay]

Source: family acquaintance is currently on faculty at Dell

Caveat: regardless of the things I say below, I would have gone to Dell over any other school if it was around when I applied (Austin is still the best city in Texas, traffic and all)

There are risks with attending the school, but I think the risks are very minimal. Yes it's brand new, but Dell is going to make sure that all of their students do well especially since they need to establish their reputation. Dell won't have as much volume when it comes to clinical rotation sites, but there will be less students (since each class will only be 50 students for the next 4 years) doing clinical rotations so it kind of balances out. Also you won't have any students above you to ask for advice if you ever needed it.

I think the new curriculum at Dell is very intriguing, but you should expect some tremendous hurdles as the first class. In particular, the longitudinal experience that the school wants to incorporate during preclinical courses is still not completely set in stone (there are some issues right now finding enough volunteer physicians in the community, esp. once several classes come through). A new curriculum is a pain in the butt to implement (I've seen well-established schools struggle with the transition) ... I can only imagine that a new curriculum at a new school will have a crap-ton more growing pains, despite whatever contingency plans are in place right now.

Unless OP is applying to Harvard, Hopkins, etc I have a hard time believing that the name or prestige of the med school matters as much as his/her personal performance.

If you bust butt to get top notch grades, high step scores, and build a good CV I just can't see someone from in inaugural class based from a reputable, tier-1 school like UT Austin having issues matching to even the most competitive fields. If anything, PDs might be curious to interview someone from Dell because it is new and obviously yielded great residency candidates in that case.

After all, being in an inaugural class of only 50 people has the perk of enabling one to exhibit leadership pretty much anywhere the student wants. Wanna start a club or interest group? Dell has none so go right ahead. Wanna do research? Dell has a brand new research facility being built and, of course, UT is a HUGE research school. Wanna start a community clinic? That's precisely what a school like Dell wants you to do.

Having interviewed at Dell for residency, it's probably not a good idea to just dismiss the inherent benefits of more established medical institutions (esp for competitive fields like derm, optho, etc.). Dell doesn't have residency programs in competitive specialties like ENT, ortho, optho, or uro, so you'll be fighting an uphill battle as a student here for those types of specialties because there simply isn't the same opportunities for networking and research as there is at a place with those residency programs. That isn't to say that you wouldn't be able to match into those fields coming from Dell, but it'll require a lot more legwork from the part of the student to find opportunities outside of their home institution. Trust me, doing away rotations are a pain in the ass.

Unless you're trying to go to Hopkins for residency, your brand name won't place you out of a spot.
If you're worried about quality faculty of Dell, I wouldn't be. Medicine and operations in Dallas are not different than those used in Austin.

Austin is a completely different healthcare environment compared to other Texas cities. Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston... those are places with large county style health networks which have a massive footprint on the community. Austin (and Dell) doesn't have the same centralization of healthcare resources (I think the new Brackenridge at ~200 beds actually has fewer beds than the old hospital for whatever reason), and it has this weird private-public partnership with Seton Health (fun fact: since Seton is a Catholic organization, some gyn procedures can't be performed at Brackenridge, so they end up being done elsewhere). I don't really know which system is better, but it would be disingenuous to say that Brackenridge is the same type of county facility as a Ben Taub or Parkland or JPS.

In its current state, Dell's strengths probably cater more towards students who want to pursue some type of primary care/outpatient based field (at least until they establish additional residency/fellowship programs and finish filling out their faculty)

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Source: family acquaintance is currently on faculty at Dell

Caveat: regardless of the things I say below, I would have gone to Dell over any other school if it was around when I applied (Austin is still the best city in Texas, traffic and all)



I think the new curriculum at Dell is very intriguing, but you should expect some tremendous hurdles as the first class. In particular, the longitudinal experience that the school wants to incorporate during preclinical courses is still not completely set in stone (there are some issues right now finding enough volunteer physicians in the community, esp. once several classes come through). A new curriculum is a pain in the butt to implement (I've seen well-established schools struggle with the transition) ... I can only imagine that a new curriculum at a new school will have a crap-ton more growing pains, despite whatever contingency plans are in place right now.



Having interviewed at Dell for residency, it's probably not a good idea to just dismiss the inherent benefits of more established medical institutions (esp for competitive fields like derm, optho, etc.). Dell doesn't have residency programs in competitive specialties like ENT, ortho, optho, or uro, so you'll be fighting an uphill battle as a student here for those types of specialties because there simply isn't the same opportunities for networking and research as there is at a place with those residency programs. That isn't to say that you wouldn't be able to match into those fields coming from Dell, but it'll require a lot more legwork from the part of the student to find opportunities outside of their home institution. Trust me, doing away rotations are a pain in the ass.



Austin is a completely different healthcare environment compared to other Texas cities. Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston... those are places with large county style health networks which have a massive footprint on the community. Austin (and Dell) doesn't have the same centralization of healthcare resources (I think the new Brackenridge at ~200 beds actually has fewer beds than the old hospital for whatever reason), and it has this weird private-public partnership with Seton Health (fun fact: since Seton is a Catholic organization, some gyn procedures can't be performed at Brackenridge, so they end up being done elsewhere). I don't really know which system is better, but it would be disingenuous to say that Brackenridge is the same type of county facility as a Ben Taub or Parkland or JPS.

In its current state, Dell's strengths probably cater more towards students who want to pursue some type of primary care/outpatient based field (at least until they establish additional residency/fellowship programs and finish filling out their faculty)

Respect, but Dell already has derm and plastics departments. With the addition of the new medical center they will be creating residencies in essentially every field, from my understanding. Sure, they won't be prestigious programs that look good for academic medicine for a while, but who cares? A plastic surgeon is a plastic surgeon and a dermatologist is a dermatologist.

The only difference between the established schools like UTSW, Baylor, and Dell is time. Everyone is severely underestimating what is going on in Austin right now for some odd reason. When has UT Austin NOT performed? When has UT Austin not been the best public school in state of Texas? C'mon, the school offers some of the best educational programs in the world, why would their medical school be any different?

Sure, there will probably be a lot of growing pains, but there are some people that like to put their imprint on new ventures, especially ventures as huge as Dell is destined to become. Even if I end up not going there, I'm PUMPED about Dell and will defend it tooth and nail.

 

[Whatyousay]

Respect, but Dell already has derm and plastics departments. With the addition of the new medical center they will be creating residencies in essentially every field, from my understanding. Sure, they won't be prestigious programs that look good for academic medicine for a while, but who cares? A plastic surgeon is a plastic surgeon and a dermatologist is a dermatologist.

Trust me, having watched a lot of very qualified people struggle through the residency process, who you know and where you're from matters a whole lot more than you might be comfortable believing, especially for something like derm or plastics (the applicants for these residencies represent the cream of the crop - AOA, top board scores, research coming out the wazoo - and even then, a good 20-30% of these students won't be able to match). This is all coming from a guy who doesn't give two ****s about pedigree.

The only difference between the established schools like UTSW, Baylor, and Dell is time. Everyone is severely underestimating what is going on in Austin right now for some odd reason. When has UT Austin NOT performed? When has UT Austin not been the best public school in state of Texas? C'mon, the school offers some of the best educational programs in the world, why would their medical school be any different?

Sure, there will probably be a lot of growing pains, but there are some people that like to put their imprint on new ventures, especially ventures as huge as Dell is destined to become. Even if I end up not going there, I'm PUMPED about Dell and will defend it tooth and nail.

Oh, there's no doubt Dell is going to be the UT system's pride and joy, and in time, it's going to be great institution. The thing is, there is a whole lot more that differentiates Dell between other schools, and it has to do with a lot more than time. Brackenridge is never going to be at the level of Parkland/Ben Taub, because it's not designed to be the same as those hospitals. Unless the mission statement of the school has changed recently, I believe that Dell is going to put a lot of emphasis on developing clinicians with training/education that extends beyond the traditional clinical curriculum (where it can take full advantage of UT'-Austin's numerous graduate schools and existing institutional resources). Dell is going to be different, and that's a good thing. But medical schools aren't one size fits all, and incoming students need to be aware that these schools are going to have their own quirks/strengths, some of which will align better with their career goals than others.

It would be doing a disservice to the students applying/accepted to assume that they'll be able to reap these future rewards before they graduate. Austin has some unique challenges. For example, they've run into some difficulties setting up cardiology and heme/onc fellowships at Brack because the private groups that staff the hospital would prefer not to have fellowships there (long story short, it means less money for them). Setting up a department takes time, and I can only imagine that trying to do so while navigating some complex politics will take even longer. It's easy to lay out a roadmap for the future ... it's a lot more difficult to implement it. Heck, when I first started at UTSW, I was told that the new Parkland was going to be finished by the middle of my second year ... it didn't get completed until my 4th year, and I haven't done a single rotation over there

Like I said before, I would have gone to Dell if it was around when I was applying, but the challenges of establishing a new school are not something that I would dismiss out of hand as a minor concern. Dell is going to attract a strong crop of candidates in their first year class on the basis of the name, location, and potential of the medical school, but students need to go into with the understanding that their path may be a lot bumpier than if they had gone to a more established institution. They'll need to decide if the opportunities of being the first class outweigh the potential challenges/risks.

tl;dr take the challenges of a new school seriously, but also consider the potential opportunities of an institution affiliated with one of the most resource-rich campuses in America

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

Trust me, having watched a lot of very qualified people struggle through the residency process, who you know and where you're from matters a whole lot more than you might be comfortable believing, especially for something like derm or plastics (the applicants for these residencies represent the cream of the crop - AOA, top board scores, research coming out the wazoo - and even then, a good 20-30% of these students won't be able to match). This is all coming from a guy who doesn't give two ****s about pedigree.



Oh, there's no doubt Dell is going to be the UT system's pride and joy, and in time, it's going to be great institution. The thing is, there is a whole lot more that differentiates Dell between other schools, and it has to do with a lot more than time. Brackenridge is never going to be at the level of Parkland/Ben Taub, because it's not designed to be the same as those hospitals. Unless the mission statement of the school has changed recently, I believe that Dell is going to put a lot of emphasis on developing clinicians with training/education that extends beyond the traditional clinical curriculum (where it can take full advantage of UT'-Austin's numerous graduate schools and existing institutional resources). Dell is going to be different, and that's a good thing. But medical schools aren't one size fits all, and incoming students need to be aware that these schools are going to have their own quirks/strengths, some of which will align better with their career goals than others.

It would be doing a disservice to the students applying/accepted to assume that they'll be able to reap these future rewards before they graduate. Austin has some unique challenges. For example, they've run into some difficulties setting up cardiology and heme/onc fellowships at Brack because the private groups that staff the hospital would prefer not to have fellowships there (long story short, it means less money for them). Setting up a department takes time, and I can only imagine that trying to do so while navigating some complex politics will take even longer. It's easy to lay out a roadmap for the future ... it's a lot more difficult to implement it. Heck, when I first started at UTSW, I was told that the new Parkland was going to be finished by the middle of my second year ... it didn't get completed until my 4th year, and I haven't done a single rotation over there

Like I said before, I would have gone to Dell if it was around when I was applying, but the challenges of establishing a new school are not something that I would dismiss out of hand as a minor concern. Dell is going to attract a strong crop of candidates in their first year class on the basis of the name, location, and potential of the medical school, but students need to go into with the understanding that their path may be a lot bumpier than if they had gone to a more established institution. They'll need to decide if the opportunities of being the first class outweigh the potential challenges/risks.

tl;dr take the challenges of a new school seriously, but also consider the potential opportunities of an institution affiliated with one of the most resource-rich campuses in America

You have some extremely constructive advice, whatyousay. Some of the points that you bring up are really interesting. Do you feel that less people in a class will result in less competition for students interested in making connections in plastics, derm, or other fields? I wonder how much this will translate into quality mentorships, LORs, etc. ? My gut says probably a lot.

They are essentially scrapping Brackenridge from my understanding. Dell Seton Medical Center is starting out small, but every medical school starts up small, even UTSW. I highly doubt that there won't be additional hospitals built to form a larger health center. It just wouldn't be wise for Dell to build an 800 bed hospital and have an incoming class of 250 right off the bat. You have to treat a new school like it's a start up company, I would imagine.

I also wonder how much the fact that UT Austin is so resource-rich will play into how quickly the school rises? The location, the money, and the name are already attracting some pretty strong faculty. There is also a LOT of talk about building a biotech industry in Austin that rivals the West and East coasts, sort of like making Austin the Silicon Valley of Texas. If there is any place to convert such ambition into reality in the central US, it's in Austin.

 

[Whatyousay]

You have some extremely constructive advice, whatyousay. Some of the points that you bring up are really interesting. Do you feel that less people in a class will result in less competition for students interested in making connections in plastics, derm, or other fields? I wonder how much this will translate into quality mentorships, LORs, etc. ? My gut says probably a lot.

They are essentially scrapping Brackenridge from my understanding. Dell Seton Medical Center is starting out small, but every medical school starts up small, even UTSW. I highly doubt that there won't be additional hospitals built to form a larger health center. It just wouldn't be wise for Dell to build an 800 bed hospital and have an incoming class of 250 right off the bat. You have to treat a new school like it's a start up company, I would imagine.

Brackenridge is probably going to stay small. Seton and Austin had the option of creating a much larger county facility, and made the conscious decision to keep Brackenridge at about the same size that it currently is (whether it's because of finances, land, anticipated patient volume, I have no idea). I don't anticipate that you'll see the same type of medical center in Austin as you see in other cities, at least in the near future. There's already a large network of Seton-affiliated hospitals + St. David's in the immediate area, so I imagine that Dell will probably find partnerships through these facilities as opposed to expanding the new medical center.

I also wonder how much the fact that UT Austin is so resource-rich will play into how quickly the school rises? The location, the money, and the name are already attracting some pretty strong faculty. There is also a LOT of talk about building a biotech industry in Austin that rivals the West and East coasts, sort of like making Austin the Silicon Valley of Texas. If there is any place to convert such ambition into reality in the central US, it's in Austin.

If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, Austin is the right place to be.