Special Ambulance for Fatties -

[SuperTrooper]

"An ambulance company has responded to oversize needs in southern Nevada by providing an ambulance equipped to handle patients weighing 500 pounds or more." ...

"Our job is to get that patient to where they need to be safely and in a dignified manner."

dignified manner? WTF? if you weigh over 500 lbs. how can you possibly be concerned about your dignity?

read here

Of Nevada's 1.7 million adult residents in 2004, the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the state Health Division estimated that 21 percent, or about 357,000, were obese. Pay attention future doctors of america. This is a problem!!!!

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[trustwomen]

WTF? if you weigh over 500 lbs. how can you possibly be concerned about your dignity?

No kidding! Just like those cripples who get mad when we crack jokes while giving them their bath, or broads who get all pissy about 47 people watching them deliver their baby - I mean hey, it's ROUNDS, dummy, and if you didn't want this you should've just not gotten pregnant, right?

Dignity? Pshaw. This is medicine: we don't worry about crap like that.




(Seriously, though, SuperTrooper, it's not cool to say a person doesn't deserve their dignity.)

 

[Prospero]

I don't know that it's any big secret that obesity (and subsequently diabetes) are a problem in America. The problem is getting Americans to change their ways without offending them. Telling some one, "Geez! You're fat! Maybe you shouldn't eat so much!" is probably not the best way to go about that.

 

[fab4fan]

"An ambulance company has responded to oversize needs in southern Nevada by providing an ambulance equipped to handle patients weighing 500 pounds or more." ...

"Our job is to get that patient to where they need to be safely and in a dignified manner."

dignified manner? WTF? if you weigh over 500 lbs. how can you possibly be concerned about your dignity?

read here

Of Nevada's 1.7 million adult residents in 2004, the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the state Health Division estimated that 21 percent, or about 357,000, were obese. Pay attention future doctors of america. This is a problem!!!!

More random neural firings from SuperTrooper.

 

[SuperTrooper]

(Seriously, though, SuperTrooper, it's not cool to say a person doesn't deserve their dignity.)

Read my post again, I didn't say these people don't deserve their dignity.

 

[SuperTrooper]

Telling some one, "Geez! You're fat! Maybe you shouldn't eat so much!" is probably not the best way to go about that.

I agree. But what's worse is when meathead future medical professionals like trustwomen analogize obesity to serious unpreventable medical conditions like spinal cord injuries. I think part of the problem is that obese people think that their weight is out of their hands - that it's a genetic or "glandular" problem.

 

[fab4fan]

Yes you did, in that you mocked the ambulance company's comment that they were trying to preserve the pt's dignity.

 

[medhacker]

Pay attention future doctors of america. This is a problem!!!!

Or a booming economic opportunity

 

[SuperTrooper]

Yes you did, in that you mocked the ambulance company's comment that they were trying to preserve the pt's dignity.

Yes, I mocked the ambulance company for wanting to preserve the patient's dignity. But I definitely didn't suggest that the patients don't deserve this treatment, or that it's stupid for the company to treat their patients this way.

Maybe i've seriously lost my command of the english language recently. I'll give a gold star to anyone who can interpret my first post.

 

[trustwomen]

I think part of the problem is that obese people think that their weight is out of their hands - that it's a genetic or "glandular" problem.

I happen to agree with this. However, even people who get themselves into their own mess deserve (and have the right to expect) to be treated with dignity!! If a bariatric ambulance is needed to do this, then it should be there. Besides, most bariatric equipment is not there to help the patient - it's there to help the backs of the medical personnel who would otherwise have to LIFT the patient.

Also, please note that 21% of Nevadans are not morbidly obese - just obese. Most of the obese can use regular services/equipment because obese can also mean "an extra 40-50 lbs"; all you need is a BMI of 30 to qualify. There are more 500-pound people now than ever before, and this is linked to the rise in general obesity, but too many people automatically assume all obese people are >300 lbs! Just not true.

Meathead signing off...

 

[QuikClot]

We have a bariatric unit at AMR Northwest and we've had one for years. It's simply a necessity in a modern EMS system. This is really a non-story.

Obesity is a non-controversy, too, because everyone agrees it's a problem, everyone agrees the causes are partly enviromental and partly genetic; in other words it's like every other damn thing ambulances run on, from cancer to spinal cord injuries. Shoot, most spinal cord injuries are far more directly the result of poor decision-making than obesity. But in the larger sense, the question is moot, because emergency medicine is largely what happens when people make bad choices. If you're running calls waiting for that completely innocent victim of disease or injury, you'll wait a long time.

 

[SuperTrooper]

However, even people who get themselves into their own mess deserve (and have the right to expect) to be treated with dignity!!

OK, the way i normally use the word dignity, i mean dignity = self-respect. Maybe I'm using this word wrong . And i was mocking the ambulance company, because i was suggesting somebody who weighs over 500 pounds probably doesn't have that great self-respect to begin with, so it's funny in that the ambulance is catering to something that doesn't exist. I know this is mean and not necessarily true, but i said it for comic effect, hugely unsuccessfully. Of course everybody deserves to be treated like a human.

Shame on you who thought i meant otherwise!!

 

[fab4fan]

No, shame on you for suggesting that even if an obese pt. doesn't have self-respect, he/she doesn't need to be treated with dignity. Try as you like to talk your way out of it, that was the intent behind your post.

It's not the first time you've posted making a mockery of a particular group for one reason or another.

 

[MollyMalone]

OK, the way i normally use the word dignity, i mean dignity = self-respect. Maybe I'm using this word wrong.

The word *can* be used to mean self-respect or self-esteem, but the primary meaning of it is respect or esteem from others. So I think that your infelicitous use of the word was part of the problem, yes.

Shame on you who thought i meant otherwise!!

Whatever. You weren't at all clear. If you meant to deride something other than obese people, that didn't come out in your post. Don't blame your poor communication on others.

 

[ambulancedriver]

this is really not new. we already have a nice (and big ) bariatric ambulance. it is extra wide, and equipped with a winch that essentially pulls the patient in for you (saving our backs!)

the stretcher can support 800 on its legs, and 1600 lbs. when fully on the ground. extra handles also come out so other people can help lift the thing. then you just attach it to the winch, and they go right in on the ramps. can't beat that.

 

[SuperTrooper]

No, shame on you for suggesting that even if an obese pt. doesn't have self-respect, he/she doesn't need to be treated with dignity. Try as you like to talk your way out of it, that was the intent behind your post.

Oh, come on man, lighten up. The intent of my post was to stir a response in this dead forum.

It's not the first time you've posted making a mockery of a particular group for one reason or another.

Who have i tried to make a mockery of?

 

[SuperTrooper]

Shoot, most spinal cord injuries are far more directly the result of poor decision-making than obesity.

Spinal cord injury can result from one singular poor decision. Obesity is often the result of millions of poor decisions over years about physical fitness, diet, etc.

 

[mustangsally65]

I think part of the problem is that obese people think that their weight is out of their hands - that it's a genetic or "glandular" problem.

I used to be really prejudiced about overweight people. I mean, just don't eat as much and make better food choices and exercise more. How hard could that be?

Then I started gaining weight myself even thought I ate right and exercised. After five years of putting on about 10 pounds a year I was diagnosed with insulin resistance (aka metabolic syndrome) in addition to my PCOS. I had been hungry all the time for the previous year no matter how much food I ate. Two hours after eating a huge meal my stomach would be growling again. It's miserable to be hungry all the time.

I was put on Glucophage in November and I've lost 25 pounds. I'm also on a diabetic diet and that has helped with the weight loss. I'm not obese by any means (135 pounds) but I'm under five feet tall so I'm definitely bigger than my ideal weight of 100 pounds.

I had an insulin problem that made me hungry all the time, and since my body didn't use the insulin my glucose was stored as fat instead of getting to the cells where it was needed. I wasn't getting enough energy and was tired all the time even though I ate a lot.

It doesn't have to be a "gland" problem, but hormones can really mess up your weight. I don't think I would have understood it as easily if I hadn't gone through it myself, but now that I have and that I've lost a lot of weight just by changing my diet (haven't done any extra exercise) I think I'm a lot more forgiving of people being overweight or obese.

The worst thing you can do for these patients is to make them think that you consider their weight problems to be from a lack of willpower. I had days and weeks where I was so hungry and I wasn't losing any weight even if I starved myself, so I rationalized that it didn't really matter what I ate because eating made my stomach shut up. I wasn't losing weight anyway, so what was the harm in excessive eating? I had willpower but it didn't seem to help so I gave up. But my doctor's confidence in me when I was diagnosed made a big difference and once I learned that my weight problem could be medically influenced, I had a renewed determination to eat better (cut out sugar, white flour and potatoes) and lose the weight. It doesn't take much to make a huge difference.

 

[trustwomen]

I was put on Glucophage in November and I've lost 25 pounds. I'm also on a diabetic diet and that has helped with the weight loss. I'm not obese by any means (135 pounds) but I'm under five feet tall so I'm definitely bigger than my ideal weight of 100 pounds.

First, mustangsally65, I'm impressed with your determination and your success!

To all: her story raises a few interesting points for me.

-At 4'11" (she said she was under 5 feet), 135 lbs is not considered "obese". However, 149 lbs would be; that's when the BMI passes 30. However, no winch would be necessary, and most of us would think of this hypothetical person as "chubby" or "thick", but "obese" would probably not spring to mind. Keep this in mind when considering "obesity rates".

-mustangsally65 was lucky enough to realize that her condition was glandular. Not everyone would have the knowledge or instinct to discern that they weren't "just getting fat" (and old & tired, etc...).

-she was also able to access appropriate medical care. I'm guessing she also has health insurance of some kind (if not, her accomplishment is even more impressive). I'm also guessing that her doctor didn't just tell her that her weight was the result of "a long string of bad choices" and lecture her about changing her ways.

None of this is meant to detract from the fact that poor lifestyle choices are the leading cause of obesity. However, we do need to withhold personal judgements while giving advice; otherwise, the advice will fall on defensive (and therefore deaf) ears. Try to understand how they got there and imagine what it would be like to get there yourself. I would want to be treated well even if my self-esteem were low; I would want my physician's advice to come from caring and concern, not from contempt.

 

[MissMuffet]

Awesome posts, trustwomen and mustangsally65.

I too used to be unsympathetic to those fighting weight gain. I'd never had a problem staying where i wanted simply by manipulating my intake, so I figured they could too, just as easily.

Then, with my first pg, I experienced 9 months of gnawing hunger and cravings. But, as soon as I delivered, I was back to normal and easily lost all 50 lbs (whew!) within 3 months.

With my second, I was only slightly more hungry in the beginning, gained the minimal healthy weight, and was back in a size 4 after 2 weeks.

That made me realize how we can be a victim of our hormones, at least.

A few years later, I went on prozac for 3 months. I gained 20 lbs, eating as I always had at first, then dieting to no avail. I went off it and the weight fell right off. Whew again!

Now, I'm VERY sensitive to how people with "glandular problems" must feel, not only in battling fat, but defending themselves from our harsh judgments. Since I don't know who falls in that category vs who doesn't, I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, ya know?


By the way, in reading this thread, is anyone else reminded of the great movie, What's Eating Gilbert Grape? ...with Johnny Depp...

 

[docB]

Having moved through the flaming and anecdotal phases of this thread let’s ask if health care as an industry can ever or should ever optimally deal with the morbidly obese. These patients frequently cause lifting injuries to staff. It is very difficult to care for them because they present problems with CT scanners, IV access, intubation, etc. They require highly specialized equipment like big boy beds, lifters and special wheel chairs. Is it incumbent for every health care facility to invest in these things? Should we create special obesity centers so that the cost of this investment can be limited? Do we need to educate these patients that there are just certain diagnostic and treatment modalities that they can’t have? What about liability? If you miss an appy on a patient with a difficult exam who can’t have a CT should you be as liable as if you missed it on a regular sized patient?

 

[QuikClot]

Maybe we should stop doing IVs on black people because they tend to have tough skin. Diabetics are prone to silent heart attacks -- call the lawyers, we can't be expected to catch it.

Seriously, the emergency pt. who doesn't have preexisting conditions complicating their diagnosis and treatment is, where I work, a refreshing change of pace. I can't see why we would single out one of the hundreds of conditions that make our jobs harder; it seems like an idea motivated by distaste for the obese rather than logic.

 

[trustwomen]

the emergency pt. who doesn't have preexisting conditions complicating their diagnosis and treatment is, where I work, a refreshing change of pace. I can't see why we would single out one of the hundreds of conditions that make our jobs harder; it seems like an idea motivated by distaste for the obese rather than logic.

Indeed, and I suspect that someone who missed a diagnosis due to understandable impediments from preexisting conditions would be exonerated anyway. Now, an obese woman being told by her doctor, "you're not pregnant, you're just fat", and refusing to run a pg test because the doctor can't imagine her having a sex partner (she was pregnant) - THAT'S something you can take to court. (I know, I know, anecdotal, but I did hear it from the horse's mouth - I counseled this woman).

 

[leviathan]

No, shame on you for suggesting that even if an obese pt. doesn't have self-respect, he/she doesn't need to be treated with dignity. Try as you like to talk your way out of it, that was the intent behind your post.

It's not the first time you've posted making a mockery of a particular group for one reason or another.

Quit stirring the pot you whiney little baby. I understood his post clearly. He said these morbidly obese patients don't HAVE dignity to begin with (hence the humour in "preserving" dignity), not that they don't deserve it. Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT. Either that, or you're just trying to create drama.

 

[leviathan]

Obesity is a non-controversy, too, because everyone agrees it's a problem, everyone agrees the causes are partly enviromental and partly genetic; in other words it's like every other damn thing ambulances run on, from cancer to spinal cord injuries.

The problems are hardly genetic. Yes, there are cases of people with medical conditions that predispose them to obesity, but there are many more people who just fall into the trap of overeating and underexercising. The rise of obesity has been far too exponential over the past century to attribute it to genetics. It's entirely due to affordable access to high calorie foods, and too many commodities that reduce our physical demands. Now, can we blame the average Joe for life becoming easier since the late 20th century? Not really, but for those of you with less than stellar reading comprehension, read this post as indicting our current society for obesity and not the individual. You can further read into it that if the majority of obese people learned how to follow a lifestyle more parallel to that of people in past generations, most of them would shed off those extra pounds.

 

[trustwomen]

Quit stirring the pot you whiney little baby. I understood his post clearly. He said these morbidly obese patients don't HAVE dignity to begin with (hence the humour in "preserving" dignity), not that they don't deserve it. Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT.

Odd. I performed very well on the VR section of the MCAT, yet I interpreted the post in the same way as did fab4fan.

However, since we are discussing verbal ability:

-You needed a comma after "Quit stirring the pot".

-After "Let me guess", you should have used a colon and not a comma.

-It's "He said that these...", not "He said these". Another alternative would be "He said: these..."

Verbal ability aside, both interpretations make the original poster seem callous. To believe that one of them is acceptable also seems callous.

 

[trustwomen]

The problems are hardly genetic. Yes, there are cases of people with medical conditions that predispose them to obesity, but there are many more people who just fall into the trap of overeating and underexercising. The rise of obesity has been far too exponential over the past century to attribute it to genetics. It's entirely due to affordable access to high calorie foods, and too many commodities that reduce our physical demands. Now, can we blame the average Joe for life becoming easier since the late 20th century? Not really, but for those of you with less than stellar reading comprehension, read this post as indicting our current society for obesity and not the individual. You can further read into it that if the majority of obese people learned how to follow a lifestyle more parallel to that of people in past generations, most of them would shed off those extra pounds.

Ah, but the genetic component shows itself in the capacity of some people to put on weight quickly, and to have great difficulty in losing it. This trait was actually quite adaptive when food was scarce; but it is now maladaptive. If the environment were not so toxic, this genetic difference would mean little. However, there is a genetic component to overweight besides glandular disorders. Some of those who overeat and fail to exercise will get heavier than others with the same unhealthy lifestyle. The environment may well be responsible for a large majority of the effect, but this does not negate the role of genetics. Adoption studies have shown that adopted children tend to be have weights/body types which are similar to those of their biological parents and not those of their adoptive ones.

 

[leviathan]

Odd. I performed very well on the VR section of the MCAT, yet I interpreted the post in the same way as did fab4fan.

However, since we are discussing verbal ability:

-You needed a comma after "Quit stirring the pot".

-After "Let me guess", you should have used a colon and not a comma.

-It's "He said that these...", not "He said these". Another alternative would be "He said: these..."

Verbal ability aside, both interpretations make the original poster seem callous. To believe that one of them is acceptable also seems callous.

Actually, we were discussing verbal comprehension, not verbal ability. Regardless, you then discussed a third topic of grammar and writing ability, yet something else entirely different. Now, if you want to get into that playing field, take a look at the mistakes you made in your attempt to correct my post. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[QuikClot]

Quit stirring the pot you whiney little baby. I understood his post clearly. He said these morbidly obese patients don't HAVE dignity to begin with (hence the humour in "preserving" dignity), not that they don't deserve it. Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT. Either that, or you're just trying to create drama.

In fact, you're the drama queen trying to start a flame war. Why don't you take your childish insults and go call someone who cares?

 

[QuikClot]

Interesting:

Will a high MCAT score increase your chances of acceptance and decrease the negativity of having a low GPA? I'm a Canadian student who will graduate with an estimated GPA of about 3.2, and a 32Q MCAT (10,11,11), and I'm wondering if taking the MCAT a second time would help my chances of getting in. I'm very happy with my score already, but would be willing to rewrite if it would benefit my application.

Thanks.

You read that right, he's a 3.2 student with a 10 in VR and a Q in writing and he's accusing other people of bad verbal comprehension as evidenced by low MCAT scores.

 

[leviathan]

Ah, but the genetic component shows itself in the capacity of some people to put on weight quickly, and to have great difficulty in losing it. This trait was actually quite adaptive when food was scarce; but it is now maladaptive. If the environment were not so toxic, this genetic difference would mean little. However, there is a genetic component to overweight besides glandular disorders. Some of those who overeat and fail to exercise will get heavier than others with the same unhealthy lifestyle. The environment may well be responsible for a large majority of the effect, but this does not negate the role of genetics. Adoption studies have shown that adopted children tend to be have weights/body types which are similar to those of their biological parents and not those of their adoptive ones.

I agree with you that some people have a genetic predisposition to gaining weight faster than others, but their inability to lose that weight is not genetic. That inability is a consequence of environment. There is an example of a certain group of people that are very fit and athletic in their home culture and region, but in Los Angeles the majority of them could be considered either obese, or morbidly obese. One would logically assume that these people in LA would lose all that extra weight if they moved to their country of ancestral origin and lived the same lifestyle. By the same token (and I'm not at all saying this would be easy), all of these obese people would become healthy again if they adjusted their lifestyles back to the way they were genetically designed to be

 

[leviathan]

In fact, you're the drama queen trying to start a flame war. Why don't you take your childish insults and go call someone who cares?

While I appreciate the irony in the fact that I insulted people who were just trying to insult the OP with their display of "holier than thou" attitudes, I don't appreciate your insult on me doing the EXACT same thing.

 

[leviathan]

Interesting:



You read that right, he's a 3.2 student with a 10 in VR and a Q in writing and he's accusing other people of bad verbal comprehension as evidenced by low MCAT scores.

Actually, "10 11 11" would mean my VR score is 11, but I'm not going to hold you over the coals for yet another ironic display of poor comprehension.

 

[QuikClot]

Actually, "10 11 11" would mean my VR score is 11, but I'm not going to hold you over the coals for yet another ironic display of poor comprehension.

Whatever. I'll call you if I need someone to wash my car.

Run along now. The grown-ups are talking.

 

[leviathan]

Whatever. I'll call you if I need someone to wash my car.

Run along now. The grown-ups are talking.

Very nice display of maturity there, Mr. Grown-up. Seriously, we have enough trolls and flamers on SDN already, so please take your negative attitude elsewhere. I can't believe I tried to keep the peace and defend you on that other thread where you joked about a bunch of students getting killed in an MVA. Now I try to defend the OP when he gets flamed for making a joke about obese people, and you come in here with more of the same trolling. I guess everyone was right about you in that other thread.

 

[QuikClot]

While I appreciate the irony in the fact that I insulted people who were just trying to insult the OP with their display of "holier than thou" attitudes, I don't appreciate your insult on me doing the EXACT same thing.

Apples and oranges. Trust correctly identified disrespectful and obnoxious elements in what the poster was saying. You immediately attacked her personally (and lamely) while she, quite amusingly, torn the grammar and usage mistakes of your post apart -- to which you replied that your inability to write had nothing to do with "verbal ability" which is, of course, nonsense.

There is a different between someone writing something that offends your socially disfunctional brain, and attacking someone's intelligence and motives. It's a unfortunate choice of insult for you, because she (and I, for that matter) hopelessly outclass you. Good luck in business school.

 

[QuikClot]

Very nice display of maturity there, Mr. Grown-up. Seriously, we have enough trolls and flamers on SDN already, so please take your negative attitude elsewhere. I can't believe I tried to keep the peace and defend you on that other thread where you joked about a bunch of students getting killed in an MVA. Now I try to defend the OP when he gets flamed for making a joke about obese people, and you come in here with more of the same trolling. I guess everyone was right about you in that other thread.

What Trust said: "Seriously, though, SuperTrooper, it's not cool to say a person doesn't deserve their dignity."

What fab said: "No, shame on you for suggesting that even if an obese pt. doesn't have self-respect, he/she doesn't need to be treated with dignity. Try as you like to talk your way out of it, that was the intent behind your post.

It's not the first time you've posted making a mockery of a particular group for one reason or another."

What you said: "Quit stirring the pot you whiney little baby. . . . Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT. Either that, or you're just trying to create drama."

Survey says, you're the troll.

 

[leviathan]

Apples and oranges. Trust correctly identified disrespectful and obnoxious elements in what the poster was saying. You immediately attacked her personally (and lamely) while she, quite amusingly, torn [sic] the grammar and usage mistakes of your post apart -- to which you replied that your inability to write had nothing to do with "verbal ability" which is, of course, nonsense.

This is how I know you display a far less than competent understanding of cognitive or linguistic science. There is very little connection between verbal comprehension and writing ability. I find it amusing how you say I have an "inability to write" because I misused a comma in my post, when "trust" herself made several mistakes in her own corrective post.

There is a different [sic] between someone writing something that offends your socially disfunctional [sic] brain, and attacking someone's intelligence and motives. It's a [sic] unfortunate choice of insult for you, because she (and I, for that matter) hopelessly outclass you. Good luck in business school.

Yeah, you both hopelessly outclass me based on those insignificant errors I made in my original post. Thanks to that accurate conviction of my "class" based solely on my writing ability, I took the liberty to mark up your post with all the errors you made to demonstrate just how much you don't outclass anyone who has higher than a grade 10 English education.

 

[QuikClot]

It's clear to me that we both got into this coming to the defense of other people we felt were being unfairly maligned. Whether or not fab or trust said anything that was actually offensive (I don't think so) your response was a major escalation and appeared to me as an unprovoked attack. At this point we have a choice. We can continue what has become a pointless flame war, or we can agree to disagree. I favor the latter.

One the the few good things to come out of the other thread:

 

[leviathan]

What Trust said: "Seriously, though, SuperTrooper, it's not cool to say a person doesn't deserve their dignity."

What fab said: "No, shame on you for suggesting that even if an obese pt. doesn't have self-respect, he/she doesn't need to be treated with dignity. Try as you like to talk your way out of it, that was the intent behind your post.

It's not the first time you've posted making a mockery of a particular group for one reason or another."

What you said: "Quit stirring the pot you whiney little baby. . . . Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT. Either that, or you're just trying to create drama."

Survey says, you're the troll.

Yeah, call in the firing squad because for once I didn't maintain my cool. I get a little frustrated, like I said, when people make these "holier than thou" condescending posts against other people who are in reality not doing anything wrong. The OP had a valid question about how these people could be concerned with their dignity when they're 500 pounds, and then everyone chewed him up as if he had said they don't deserve dignity. So yeah, I made an immature comment to these people when I let my emotions overcome me, but you followed up with your own immaturity directed at me. The kettle seems to be calling the pot black here, wouldn't you agree?

The same thing happened when you made some passing comment about the deaths of some pre-meds. I defended you there as well for these people taking the same approach. I don't know whether you're being a hypocrite now or what, but I really don't appreciate being attacked when I was just trying to keep the peace (albeit not very effectively after I insulted someone, I admit).

 

[leviathan]

It's clear to me that we both got into this coming to the defense of other people we felt were being unfairly maligned. Whether or not fab or trust said anything that was actually offensive (I don't think so) your response was a major escalation and appeared to me as an unprovoked attack. At this point we have a choice. We can continue what has become a pointless flame war, or we can agree to disagree. I favor the latter.

One the the few good things to come out of the other thread:

Haha...I've seen that picture before, and I love it. Now to continue with the flavour of this thread, I would probably make a post to you in a passive agressive way with undertones of haughtiness saying, "shame on you for mocking handicapped people."

 

[trustwomen]

The OP had a valid question about how these people could be concerned with their dignity when they're 500 pounds

OK, let's stop with the personal and get back to the theoretical, agreed? I like it better that way. (Less adrenaline, and I just feel better when I'm being friendly.)

Leviathan, do you think that the above quote is a valid question? See, I don't. I fail to see how being morbidly obese could mean that you are automatically unconcerned about dignity (or self-respect, or whatever the OP claims he really means by dignity).

If he had said: "How can 500-lb. people say they are concerned about their health?" (the implication being that they do not take care of their health), that might have made more sense. Even if he had made some crack about fat people ordering a triple bacon cheeseburger and a diet coke, I might have seen his point. But to say that a person who gets fat is voluntarily giving up their dignity by doing so (or that anyone with a sense of dignity would necessarily prevent themselves from getting fat) just doesn't make any sense to me.

I gather that the OP's point does make sense to you, and this is not the sort of thing we can really "debate": it's your opinion. I happen to find that opinion unwarranted and slightly offensive, but you have your right to it. So I guess this is futile...

(13VR and two humanities degrees BTW)

 

[trustwomen]

Yes, I mocked the ambulance company for wanting to preserve the patient's dignity. But I definitely didn't suggest that the patients don't deserve this treatment, or that it's stupid for the company to treat their patients this way.

Now, maybe my verbal skills are off today, but doesn't the first sentence pretty much directly contradict the second one, when you examine the meaning of "mocked"?

Yes, I was sarcastic in my prior posts, but I didn't insult anyone (didn't even call anyone meathead!). So, I'll risk getting insulted again and ask: does this first sentence not directly contradict the second one?

I'll admit, my high-minded intentions in the previous post have now given way to a certain defensiveness - but because of the controversy, I was reexamining my response to the OP, wondering if I had been too harsh or judgmental, and I've come to the conclusion - no!

 

[leviathan]

Now, maybe my verbal skills are off today, but doesn't the first sentence pretty much directly contradict the second one, when you examine the meaning of "mocked"?

Yes, I was sarcastic in my prior posts, but I didn't insult anyone (didn't even call anyone meathead!). So, I'll risk getting insulted again and ask: does this first sentence not directly contradict the second one?

I'll admit, my high-minded intentions in the previous post have now given way to a certain defensiveness - but because of the controversy, I was reexamining my response to the OP, wondering if I had been too harsh or judgmental, and I've come to the conclusion - no!

I apologize for being insulting in my original post. I take that back, but my sentiments still remain that everyone was just looking for someone to pick on.

As a joke, let's pretend this is an MCAT question:
"If you weigh over 500 lbs, how can you possibly be concerned about your dignity?"

By this statement, the author most likely:

A. Meant that morbidly obese people don't deserve dignity.
B. Believes morbidly obese people do not have dignity.
C. Wonders how morbidly obese people have dignity.
D. Was making a joke about the condition of morbidly obese people.

You seem to believe A and B. I seem to believe D, and because most jokes have a small underlying truth to them, also C. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[trustwomen]

As a joke, let's pretend this is an MCAT question:
"If you weigh over 500 lbs, how can you possibly be concerned about your dignity?"

By this statement, the author most likely:

A. Meant that morbidly obese people don't deserve dignity.
B. Believes morbidly obese people do not have dignity.
C. Wonders how morbidly obese people have dignity.
D. Was making a joke about the condition of morbidly obese people.

You seem to believe A and B. I seem to believe D, and because most jokes have a small underlying truth to them, also C. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

B. Definitely B.

Unless you add E. Believes morbidly obese people should not have dignity.
(I know, it's kind of a variation of A, but only in the "dignity as innate vs. dignity as interpersonal" kind of way).

Now we have to ask the MCAT people. Or a literature major. (Psych major as a backup maybe?)

p.s. I hope you've made up with QuikClot, too, he seems to be good people

 

[SuperTrooper]

B. Definitely B.

Unless you add E. Believes morbidly obese people should not have dignity.
(I know, it's kind of a variation of A, but only in the "dignity as innate vs. dignity as interpersonal" kind of way).

Now we have to ask the MCAT people. Or a literature major. (Psych major as a backup maybe?)

p.s. I hope you've made up with QuikClot, too, he seems to be good people

Actually, the correst response was:

F: believes that fat people should be made to walk to hospitals instead of being transported by ambulance; they need their exercise!!

But seriously, the title of this thread is "Special Ambulance for Fatties." If you were looking for a serious opening statement you're an idiot.

 

[leviathan]

B. Definitely B.

Unless you add E. Believes morbidly obese people should not have dignity.
(I know, it's kind of a variation of A, but only in the "dignity as innate vs. dignity as interpersonal" kind of way).

Now we have to ask the MCAT people. Or a literature major. (Psych major as a backup maybe?)

Sounds like a plan.

p.s. I hope you've made up with QuikClot, too, he seems to be good people

I've never had a problem with QuikClot...it seems it was only he who decided to insult me and dig up old posts of mine to ridicule my "subpar" 90th percentile VR score.

 

[trustwomen]

But seriously, the title of this thread is "Special Ambulance for Fatties." If you were looking for a serious opening statement you're an idiot.

Except that "fatties" is a fairly common insult, and therefore could just as easily indicate a contempt for fat people. This contempt is pretty widespread, so how were we to know there was an "SDN poster exemption"?

 

[trustwomen]

he who decided to insult me and dig up old posts of mine to ridicule my "subpar" 90th percentile VR score.

Admit, you sorta deserved it... "Let me guess, you're one of the countless prongs who got sub-par scores on the VR section of the MCAT"? Sounds like somebody needed a stronger coffee that morning

OK, fine, I'll admit, you and I and QuikClot are all goddamn geniuses. Guess it would be too much to ask that we all have the same sense of humour too (kudos on the Canuck "u", BTW).

 

[SuperTrooper]

Except that "fatties" is a fairly common insult, and therefore could just as easily indicate a contempt for fat people. This contempt is pretty widespread, so how were we to know there was an "SDN poster exemption"?

I'm soo sorry trustwomen!! I am destined for hell. And you are an angel, mother teresa reincarnated, but with a love for suburban american fat people instead of calcutta lepers. I will try harder to understand that people have no accountability for anything, that our destiny lies with the stars.