Specialties with best lifestyle in residency

[KnuxNole]

In FM (or Internal Med also, I assume you meant), is doing 20-30 hrs possible to do if you want to as you say? I hope so, but sometimes I get the feeling that it is hard to find a job if you only want to work that little, or if you own your practice, working 20-30 hrs barely covers your overhead and you have very little net income. I don't really know though, what do you think?

Also, what exactly does 60-80hrs in residency really mean? 80 hrs over 7 days averages to about 11.5 hrs per day. Add in time to sleep, eat, shower and groom, etc., and it seems every hour of your life 7 days per week for 3 years is consumed. Is it humanly possible to endure this for 3 years? There is literally no time for relaxing even for 1 hr, talking to friends or family on the phone even a little bit, going to the grocery store, going to another state for a wedding once a year, etc.? Or does that 80 hrs include time that you are on call, which you can still spend sleeping, eating, etc, but just need to be ready to go if you are paged? Also, Is there additional studying you have to do on the side in addition to the 80 hrs of "working"?

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[circulus vitios]

If people are looking for "cush" jobs.....why didn't you just attend dental school and become an Orthodontist?

*crickets*

Isn't orthodontics like the dermatology of medicine i.e. you need a top-tier application/CV?

 

[Silent Cool]

Isn't orthodontics like the dermatology of medicine i.e. you need a top-tier application/CV?

Yeah, but the people against whom you are competing are not Dermatology quality. It's all relative.

 

[circulus vitios]

Yeah, but the people against whom you are competing are not Dermatology quality. It's all relative.

I'm pretty sure the top dental school students are every bit as smart as the top med school students.

 

[Silent Cool]

I'm pretty sure the top dental school students are every bit as smart as the top med school students.

Having attended both professional schools, I can promise you that specializing in Orthodontics is much easier than getting into Dermatology. Over on the Ortho forum, a lot of applicants were applying to a handful of programs, maybe 6-7; meanwhile, Derm applicants are applying to every program in the country hoping for one spot, plus having tons of published research. Trust me, a typical person has a much better chance at getting into ortho than derm.

 

[circulus vitios]

Having attended both professional schools, I can promise you that specializing in Orthodontics is much easier than getting into Dermatology. Over on the Ortho forum, a lot of applicants were applying to a handful of programs, maybe 6-7; meanwhile, Derm applicants are applying to every program in the country hoping for one spot, plus having tons of published research. Trust me, a typical person has a much better chance at getting into ortho than derm.

That's hardly indicative of how competitive it is.

 

[DermViser]

Having attended both professional schools, I can promise you that specializing in Orthodontics is much easier than getting into Dermatology. Over on the Ortho forum, a lot of applicants were applying to a handful of programs, maybe 6-7; meanwhile, Derm applicants are applying to every program in the country hoping for one spot, plus having tons of published research. Trust me, a typical person has a much better chance at getting into ortho than derm.

But don't orthodontic residents pay tuition for their orthodontics fellowships?

 

[Silent Cool]

But don't orthodontic residents pay tuition for their orthodontics fellowships?

Yes, generally speaking Ortho programs charge tuition. *SOME* pay a stipend, but the majority charge tuition, anywhere from 10K per year to 75K per year.

 

[DermViser]

Yes, generally speaking Ortho programs charge tuition. *SOME* pay a stipend, but the majority charge tuition, anywhere from 10K per year to 75K per year.

I'm guessing also that most Dental students are so tired from dental school (like medical students are at the end of med school), that they just want to go out and start practicing. Only the very highly motivated want to go for Orthodontics or OMFS.

 

[Silent Cool]

I'm guessing also that most Dental students are so tired from dental school (like medical students are at the end of med school), that they just want to go out and start practicing. Only the very highly motivated want to go for Orthodontics or OMFS.

Probably, yeah.

 

[Ar2]

Having attended both professional schools, I can promise you that specializing in Orthodontics is much easier than getting into Dermatology. Over on the Ortho forum, a lot of applicants were applying to a handful of programs, maybe 6-7; meanwhile, Derm applicants are applying to every program in the country hoping for one spot, plus having tons of published research. Trust me, a typical person has a much better chance at getting into ortho than derm.

Are you a DDS or MD?.. Out of curiosity.

 

[Silent Cool]

Are you a DDS or MD?.. Out of curiosity.

Neither....I'm a DO

 

[Leo Aquarius]

If people are looking for "cush" jobs.....why didn't you just attend dental school and become an Orthodontist?

*crickets*

Agreed.

On this note, if you are pre-med why don't you consider becoming a CRNA - get great pay for much less debt, litigation risk, and training time than those of a physician/anesthesiologist (or MDA as nurses call em hahaha).

 

[Leo Aquarius]

I'm pretty sure the top dental school students are every bit as smart as the top med school students.

Ok, I attended a prestigious top 15 hard-as-hell to get into medical school. After spending many hours working alongside the top students in my class, and after teaching the DAT for dozens of pre-dental students at Kaplan, there's no way in hell this is true. You ever see a unicorn? Nope. Well I saw a few. The geniuses in my school quoted text from medical textbooks and internal medicine residents and fellows would call them "smart as shi$", and got around 270 on Step 1. I mean it was far beyond what your average med student could be like if he or she studied 24 hours a day. They had the answers to everything, even the obscure crap that nobody remembers, always finished med school exams really early (to the point where we wondered if they had failed), and lived in a world way beyond what I had ever seen. One ended up in brain surgery at the top program in the country. I wasn't surprised.

If there were an Olympics for Intelligence in the world, I'm sure you would see some med students representing some of the countries.

 

[Handinhand]

If there were an Olympics for Intelligence in the world, I'm sure you would see some med students representing some of the countries.

India's best chance at a gold medal! (Every Indian kid I go to school with seem too damn smart)

 

[Kahreek]

If you start out by picking your field by looking at the hours you will be working,

some people want to work in tall buildings others want to work less hours, there is nothing wrong with that. I hate people who spread the idea that you cant be a good doctor unless you put your career above everything else.

 

[Top Gun]

some people want to work in tall buildings others want to work less hours, there is nothing wrong with that. I hate people who spread the idea that you cant be a good doctor unless you put your career above everything else.

Its not about putting your career above everything else. Its about doing something you enjoy. Would you rather be doing something you hate for fewer hours, or spending more time on something that interests you?

 

[Kahreek]

Its not about putting your career above everything else. Its about doing something you enjoy. Would you rather be doing something you hate for fewer hours, or spending more time on something that interests you?

completely agree with you.
but not everyone knows exactly their vocation or what would be a enjoyable career or not. We cant polarize everything, there are many specialties that are fine to work at, given that one likes medical field generally, and if it happens one wants to work fewer hours to do things outside medicine that is fine.

 

[worfndata]

I've had 18 different jobs. I know what I don't like

 

[styphon]

some people want to work in tall buildings others want to work less hours, there is nothing wrong with that. I hate people who spread the idea that you cant be a good doctor unless you put your career above everything else.

I agree somewhat - but it is RIDICULOUS to pick your career based on RESIDENCY HOURS. Residency does not reflect practicing medicine/surgery as an attending - so it would be very short sighted to base the rest of your life +30 years on 3-7 years of training. You may bust your ass during residency - but once you are done nothing stops you from working 9-5 monday-friday, nothing stops you from working 20-30 hours a week - even if during your residency you were doing 70-80 hrs a week.

 

[angel20]

I heard you will also turn green when you get angry!

I heard that too RadOnc lol

 

[Neuronix]

it would be very short sighted to base the rest of your life +30 years on 3-7 years of training.

I disagree. I'm not saying to pick something you don't like that's cush in residency. But all things equal, 3-7 years of your life being miserable from overwork and abuse is a long time. You only (hopefully) get 75ish years before you die. Why waste several of them being miserable?

 

[Substance]

I'm guessing also that most Dental students are so tired from dental school (like medical students are at the end of med school), that they just want to go out and start practicing. Only the very highly motivated want to go for Orthodontics or OMFS.

no. its because they dont need to do a foolish residency to practice because dental school actually prepares students for practice, unlike the joke that is medical school.

Its not about putting your career above everything else. Its about doing something you enjoy. Would you rather be doing something you hate for fewer hours, or spending more time on something that interests you?

my advice is if you cant do something you enjoy, do as little of something you hate or are indifferent to for as much money as you can get. some unlucky people dont obtain the privilege of matching to their field of choice...

in other words, dont back up with primary care. pick the three ps instead: psych, path, pmr

 

[DermViser]

no. its because they dont need to do a foolish residency to practice because dental school actually prepares students for practice, unlike the joke that is medical school.



my advice is if you cant do something you enjoy, do as little of something you hate or are indifferent to for as much money as you can get. some unlucky people dont obtain the privilege of matching to their field of choice...

in other words, dont back up with primary care. pick the three ps instead: psych, path, pmr

Then why do dental students have General Practice residencies?

 

[Substance]

Then why do dental students have General Practice residencies?

mostly as a hurdle to jump through to get an ortho or omfs residency. i dont see many general dentists opting to do a general residency. they just work as an apprentice for a while and bill forty percent.

 

[Mad Jack]

Its not about putting your career above everything else. Its about doing something you enjoy. Would you rather be doing something you hate for fewer hours, or spending more time on something that interests you?

Why not spend your time doing something you enjoy for a reasonable number of hours a week and also having time for the things you enjoy outside of your career?

 

[Mad Jack]

I disagree. I'm not saying to pick something you don't like that's cush in residency. But all things equal, 3-7 years of your life being miserable from overwork and abuse is a long time. You only (hopefully) get 75ish years before you die. Why waste several of them being miserable?

Some of the more cush residencies may make 3-4 years of your life nicer but diminish the quality of the subsequent 35 years as compared to some of the tougher residencies that might make for a miserable training period but a wonderful rest of your life. If you can find a field that gives you a great time in residency and a nice life post-residency, that's ideal, but for many it's an either-or proposition. Pick the field you think you will enjoy the most post-residency, because you're going to spend the majority of your life doing it.

And sure, residency sucks, but take solace in the fact that it could always be worse. You could be slogging around with a rifle in the hills of Afghanistan for 80+ hours a week. I'm sure many of the guys out there would gladly trade getting shot at and dodging roadside bombs for the comparitively cush position of a physician-in-training. Always remember that everything is relative. Residency only sucks because, for many, they've never experienced anything worse.

 

[worfndata]

or worse even than that, doing nothing other than feeling ur brain atrophy.

 

[Neuronix]

Some of the more cush residencies may make 3-4 years of your life nicer but diminish the quality of the subsequent 35 years as compared to some of the tougher residencies that might make for a miserable training period but a wonderful rest of your life.

What is a specialty with generally "cush" residencies but a generally bad lifestyle in practice?

 

[Mad Jack]

What is a specialty with generally "cush" residencies but a generally bad lifestyle in practice?

It is really a personality match thing. Like, FP would be an easier residency for me to complete than IM or surgery, no doubt, but I'd hate the post-residency work so much more than being in an IM subspecialty or surgery as an attending that having those three years be significantly less demanding would not be worth how much worse being a practicing FP physician would make the rest of my life. Psych is a similar boat. I can't stand psych, but the psych residencies around here usually do around 45 hours a week, while IM and surg push the hour limits. Sure, I don't like psych, but it's easier for me to do something I don't enjoy for 45 hours than something I enjoy but is physically draining for 70-80 hours. But again, I'm looking at doing something I don't enjoy for the rest of my life after residency so psych would be a very, very bad choice.

If someone likes psych or FP, they can be a golden ticket. A fresh grad can find a cush residency and do what they love forever. But you shouldn't pick your field solely based on the residency lifestyle- you're staring down a lifetime of work in that field, so you've got to make it count and pick something you'll actually like.

 

[Neuronix]

I'm not saying to pick something you don't like that's cush in residency.

But you shouldn't pick your field solely based on the residency lifestyle- you're staring down a lifetime of work in that field, so you've got to make it count and pick something you'll actually like.

Glad we're in agreement.

 

[colbgw02]

What is a specialty with generally "cush" residencies but a generally bad lifestyle in practice?

I'd say radiology, but only if comparing to private practice.

 

[Top Gun]

Why not spend your time doing something you enjoy for a reasonable number of hours a week and also having time for the things you enjoy outside of your career?

That would be ideal unless the thing you enjoyed was something like trauma surgery or cardiology. I don't think you would exactly be able to do banker's hours in those particular specialties.

 

[Mad Jack]

That would be ideal unless the thing you enjoyed was something like trauma surgery or cardiology. I don't think you would exactly be able to do banker's hours in those particular specialties.

Trauma surgery would be difficult, but even cardiology has some evolving hospitalist models that make for a good work-life balance. I just doubt that those on a cards hospitalist service are going to clock PP cash working 7 on/7 off, so you're going to have to give up some of that pay for a more comfortable lifestyle.

 

[ram006]

Trauma surgery would be difficult, but even cardiology has some evolving hospitalist models that make for a good work-life balance. I just doubt that those on a cards hospitalist service are going to clock PP cash working 7 on/7 off, so you're going to have to give up some of that pay for a more comfortable lifestyle.

I'm not sure if it's just the group at my program having a great set-up or if people just don't understand the schedule/lifestyle of trauma surgeons but they are very well paid and have reasonable hours if you can make peace with taking 24 hr call 4-5 times a month. Their other days are 8-4. Doesn't look that bad to me but like I said, maybe that's just their group.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm not sure if it's just the group at my program having a great set-up or if people just don't understand the schedule/lifestyle of trauma surgeons but they are very well paid and have reasonable hours if you can make peace with taking 24 hr call 4-5 times a month. Their other days are 8-4. Doesn't look that bad to me but like I said, maybe that's just their group.

It's the group and probably the location as well. I'm in a trauma heavy city where residents are shooting each other left and right, so it isn't unusual to have three major GSWs that require a trauma surgeon to roll in at the same time. Usually in the middle of the night. Even if you were on 1st call 5 nights a month, there's a good chance you'll have to roll in on second or third call more than once. We do not go a night without multiple major traumas.

A big group away from the inner city or in an area that has multiple Level 1s around would probably be way better off.

 

[ram006]

It's the group and probably the location as well. I'm in a trauma heavy city where residents are shooting each other left and right, so it isn't unusual to have three major GSWs that require a trauma surgeon to roll in at the same time. Usually in the middle of the night. Even if you were on 1st call 5 nights a month, there's a good chance you'll have to roll in on second or third call more than once. We do not go a night without multiple major traumas.

A big group away from the inner city or in an area that has multiple Level 1s around would probably be way better off.

They are a big group, but located in a major Texas city. So it's not "inner city" but our coverage area is 22 counties and larger than 17 states (per our fancy interview day presentation). Some penetrating but more blunt MVA/fell off a horse(literally)/farming injuries. We do see drive-by/stab party type scenarios on a fairly regular basis though.

I would venture there aren't too many places that see more trauma during residency than we do, of course, I've only been a resident in one place so that may not be the case. I could probably do with a little less.

Overall, they seem like a happy bunch... which actually seems kind of odd to say.

 

[foo]

...I'm in a trauma heavy city where residents are shooting each other left and right

Now THAT sounds like a malignant residency program! ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[Mad Jack]

Now THAT sounds like a malignant residency program! ;-) ;-) ;-)

 

[gutonc]

Now THAT sounds like a malignant residency program! ;-) ;-) ;-)

If they had a union everything would be fine.

 

[Silent Cool]

Then why do dental students have General Practice residencies?

Some states require a GPR to practice there, and some dental schools don't prepare students adequately at graduation for independent practice.