Specialty Pay

[ddmo]

When doing a military residency do you receive Incentive Special Pay based on your specialty, or does this not occurr till after you are completed. Because, people here have mentioned that you make more doing a military residency and when looking at the pay grades it didnt seem like much of a difference without that specialty pay. It looked like doctors only received about an extra $500 a month when O-3, is this right? Thanks.

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[Homunculus]

i'm pretty sure incentive special pay only kicks in after you are board certified in a specialty. it doesn't make sense to pay you like a surgeon when you're not a surgeon yet, lol.

but for residencies, yes you will make more.

for example, a PGY1 intern at san antonio would make:
2911.20/month (O-3 monthly salary)
167.20/month (Basic Allowance for Sustinence)
990/month (Housing allowance-- this is with one dependent, for someone wiht no dependent is will be 912/month)
100/month (variable special pay-- for being an intern, basically)

grand total = 34,934 + 2,006 + 11,880 + 1,200 = $50,020

and that's just PGY1-- it goes up after that. considering most PGY1 positions in civilian residencies make 35-38k (at least most programs in the midwest), it's nice money. compared to an O-3 in the regular Army, yes, it's not that much more-- but when compared to your fellow interns and residents in the civilian world, it's a significant difference. and once you are board certified, you make a *lot* more than a regular army officer, but less than a civilian private practice doc. but you owe less money, so it evens out a bit. but i'm not going to go into that right now-- it's a topic unto itself.

 

[chillin]

Don't forget that that housing allowance isn't taxed, so you considering your take home is only 70% of your income that comes to about $17,000 for housing. Also, if you live in a area with a high standard of living such as San Diego, your allowance I think will be about 1600/ per month nontaxed=27,500 for housing allowance alone. Residency life is definitely better in the military.

 

[Homunculus]

yeah, BAH is variable according to where you live-- i forgot to post that the number i pulled was for the san antonio area. and the non-taxable part like chillin said is pretty nice

 

[DD214_DOC]

This is a little off topic, but how do competitive residencies work in the Army and Air Force? Residencies such as Gen Surg, Anesth., EM, and any other OR specialty compared to the Navy?

Like in the Navy, you more or less have to do an extended GMO tour to have a good shot at any of the above-mentioned programs. How does it work for the Army and chAir Force?

 

[Mirror Form]

I'm not sure about chair force, but I'm in the army and most people I've talked to have said that the army is moving away from GMO tours. I think only certain competitive residencies in the army take GMO tours into consideration that strongly.

 

[SOBEIT]

If you are curious about the disparity between civilian and military pay, see this interesting article:

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=76&issueID=17

 

[SOBEIT]

Since I am posting articles, this was a follow up to the one I just posted. Soes anyone know the status of the 3rd to last paragraph?

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=431&issueID=40

 

[R-Me-Doc]

See my posting in the "Military Residency Pay" thread regarding incentive and specialty pay.
The max specialty pay as of right now is still $36K. I have no idea where this 50K stuff comes from. I'll believe it when it shows up in my paycheck.

 

[saul0paul]

I am quite embarrased because I still don't get what ppl are talking about ($$wise) . Can someone just give me a ballpark figure of what i'll be making, year by year, after i graduated from ushus? -assuming the lowest-pay speciality. Ballpark figures please (i am pretty bad when people start talking about living allowances, etc., coming from a non-military background). I have been accepted by USHUS and still trying to sort out the threads. I am not too worried about $$ and I have no loans to pay back. Just trying to find out if this is a stable career choice (to at least until my commitment is up). I am an old applicant and I will be like 50 when I am done with my commitment.

For ex.:

Internship 1:
Residency 1:
Residency 2:
Residency 3:
AD1(1-7):

 

[UltimateDO]

I'm not sure about chair force, but I'm in the army and most people I've talked to have said that the army is moving away from GMO tours. I think only certain competitive residencies in the army take GMO tours into consideration that strongly.

This may be hard to believe but the impression that I got from LTC Busing from the GME office was that Army GMOs (not that many nowadays) are at a competitive disadvantage since most Army residencies are going to tracked categorical intern years and the GMOs coming back in for PGY2+ go to second Match review board and don't go to the first one where most of the residency slots are filled. It doesn't make much sense but then that wouldn't be a first in military medicine.

 

[GMO2003]

When doing a military residency do you receive Incentive Special Pay based on your specialty, or does this not occurr till after you are completed. Because, people here have mentioned that you make more doing a military residency and when looking at the pay grades it didnt seem like much of a difference without that specialty pay. It looked like doctors only received about an extra $500 a month when O-3, is this right? Thanks.

all board certified military docs get the following medical officer specialty pay: VSP, BCP, MASP, and ISP

interns/residents: only receive VSP

GMOs: VSP and MASP

 

[texdrake]

all board certified military docs get the following medical officer specialty pay: VSP, BCP, MASP, and ISP

interns/residents: only receive VSP

GMOs: VSP and MASP

Here is the updated Pay Info for HPSP

4. What will I make as a physician in the military?

These are new figures calculated as of 2006 for a 4 year scholarship. I have factored in the cost of medical school education (maximum government education loan), stipend amount, and interest avoided (4% for payback over 20 years) to come up with a true scholarship value. This will then be calculated into what you receive in pay over the lifetime of your commitment. Pay is fairly comparable for the fields of FP, PEDS, and IM. ER is not far behind.


Scholarship Value

Medical School Education Loans Saved * 4 years: $154,000
Interest Saved: $90,000
Stipend Pay * 4 years: $65,000

Total Scholarship Value (4 years): $309,000 (77K per year of commitment with 4 year scholarship)


Military Pay

Pay: 47K (Captain)
BAH: 14k (housing allowance)
BAS: 2K (food allowance)
VSP: 5K (specialty pay based on years)
BCP: 2.5K (board certification pay)
MASP: 15K (flat pay given to all doctors)
ISP: 13.5K (independent specialty pay based on specialty (FP or IM))

Tax Savings on Pay: 3K

Total Military Pay yearly: $101,000

Yearly Compensation for 4 year commitment: $178,000
(Military Pay + Scholarship Value)


Comparisons

Average salary for IM: $148,000
Average salary for FP: $142,500


Military Pay Post-Commitment

After commitment is up, one looses the scholarship savings and equivalent pay drops to about $115-120K per year.


Retirement?

Military retirement is 0% vested until 20 years, after which it becomes fully vested at ½ base salary (add 2.5% for each additional year up to mandatory retirement at 30 years). Most physicians that choose to stay till retirement will be Lt. Colonels. This means a yearly retirement pay of about $30-$35,000 plus lifetime healthcare benefits.

Time in school is considered IRR but does NOT count toward retirement.





4. What will I make as a resident?


A lot more....the average civilian resident makes 38-43K

1st year (FYGME): Base Pay + BAH + BAS + 100 monthly for VSP = (39K + 14K + 1K) = 54K

Residents: Base Pay + BAH + BAS + full VSP = (39K + 14K + 5K) = 59K

 

[dry dre]

Avg. Malpractice Saving (FP & IM): $12,000

Average starting salary for IM – Malpractice: $155,000 (after 3 years 172K)
Average Starting salary for FP – Malpractice: $135,000 (after 3 years 151K)

I am skeptical about the numbers regarding malpractice, more specifically as a modifier to pre-tax take-home pay.

It is my understanding, from discussions with every physician with whom this subject has come up (including neighbors), that malpractice premiums are not deducted from salaries, at least those salaries quoted in surveys. I'm not saying that premiums don't exist, but rather that they are not taken into account when comparing pre-tax incomes.

Premiums certainly increase overhead, but, when you are given an offer to work as a FP in rural Idaho for 150k a year, it is generally assumed that malpractice is covered above and beyond 150K.

 

[rotatores]

This is a little off topic, but how do competitive residencies work in the Army and Air Force? Residencies such as Gen Surg, Anesth., EM, and any other OR specialty compared to the Navy?

Since when is Gen Surg competitive?

 

[medgator]

Since when is Gen Surg competitive?

Gen surg had less spots (5) available in the scramble than radiology (40ish) last year. It's generally comsidered to be at least intermediate if not high in competitiveness.

 

[texdrake]

I am skeptical about the numbers regarding malpractice, more specifically as a modifier to pre-tax take-home pay.

It is my understanding, from discussions with every physician with whom this subject has come up (including neighbors), that malpractice premiums are not deducted from salaries, at least those salaries quoted in surveys. I'm not saying that premiums don't exist, but rather that they are not taken into account when comparing pre-tax incomes.

Premiums certainly increase overhead, but, when you are given an offer to work as a FP in rural Idaho for 150k a year, it is generally assumed that malpractice is covered above and beyond 150K.

Not so. Most physicians still do not work for Salary. The only way your malpractice would be covered for you is if you were getting salary from a group or a hosptial. I got my numbers from a site that listed average income after buisness expenses but said it did not incorporate malpractice into the figure and that is why I deducted it. (Of course I am not sure if they meant that they purposely escluded malpractice or if they just didn't stipulate in the survey weather the participants should include malpractice or not....unfortuntely I no longer know what site that was as I lost the web address).

Edit: I updated the average salaries and removed the malpractice stipulation after finding updated info on the web

 

[DD214_DOC]

Here's a fun question,

I am still interested in some combined residency programs (IM/EM and FP/Psych type stuff). Would the Army give me the special pay during my payback of both specialties, or only the one they put me to use as? (Which I assume would end up being psych)

 

[texdrake]

Here's a fun question,

I am still interested in some combined residency programs (IM/EM and FP/Psych type stuff). Would the Army give me the special pay during my payback of both specialties, or only the one they put me to use as? (Which I assume would end up being psych)

I think you get the higher of the two and a small bonus...

 

[threepeas]

Here's a fun question,

I am still interested in some combined residency programs (IM/EM and FP/Psych type stuff). Would the Army give me the special pay during my payback of both specialties, or only the one they put me to use as? (Which I assume would end up being psych)

from what i have been told the military doesnt have combined programs and doesnt allow deferment for these types of programs.

if you did anesthesiology for example then CCM fellowship and became double board certified you get the specialty pay for the higher paid service ie anesthesiology. this is from a doc at WRAMC who splits his time betw anesth/CCM.

 

[Hockeyguy]

If you are curious about the disparity between civilian and military pay, see this interesting article:

http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=76&issueID=17

Not bad if you want to family or peds, I think it might be worth it. Doing Anesthesiology/Ortho would be a tough pill to swallow.

 

[DD214_DOC]

from what i have been told the military doesnt have combined programs and doesnt allow deferment for these types of programs.

if you did anesthesiology for example then CCM fellowship and became double board certified you get the specialty pay for the higher paid service ie anesthesiology. this is from a doc at WRAMC who splits his time betw anesth/CCM.

That's not true, the Army has combined FM/Psych at TAMC and the big whatever it is now in MD.

 

[Mirror Form]

That's not true, the Army has combined FM/Psych at TAMC and the big whatever it is now in MD.

Good point, but it's true in the vast majority of cases.

 

[Mirror Form]

duplicate

 

[Mirror Form]

Yearly Compensation for 4 year commitment: $178,000
(Military Pay + Scholarship Value)

You're making your calcuations based on a four year committment. However, the hpsp committment is for 8 years total (4 active and 4 IRR). So it's not a safe assumption to just say it's a four year obligation.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Good point, but it's true in the vast majority of cases.

Ok, what's true? That the programs don't exist or that you can't get deferrments for them?

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEducation/

This page has a Residency and Fellowship grid showing all of the Army's programs and their locations.

 

[cdreed]

Ok, what's true? That the programs don't exist or that you can't get deferrments for them?

http://www.mods.army.mil/MedicalEducation/

This page has a Residency and Fellowship grid showing all of the Army's programs and their locations.

If the army is like the AF, then the only combined residency offered is the FM/psyche. The AF does not have other combined programs and will not approve civilian deferments for them either. Why would they? It's not beneficial for the service to train you in two specialties when in reality you will only be practicing one or the other while on AD.

 

[texdrake]

You're making your calcuations based on a four year committment. However, the hpsp committment is for 8 years total (4 active and 4 IRR). So it's not a safe assumption to just say it's a four year obligation.

I mad the calculations because the active duty payback is one year for one year. Obviously if one was stop lossed it would alter the numbers. I see no reason to lower the numbers and stretch it out over you IRR years which you would not be receiving a salary for. That just doesn't make sense. While it is technically an 8 year obligation (as all military contracts are) most regard it as only 4 years of true committment. While the army has stop lossed some physicians they rarely pull some one off IRR...they use the active reserves.

 

[Mirror Form]

While the army has stop lossed some physicians they rarely pull some one off IRR...they use the active reserves.

Agreed. However, these days when so many physicians live in fear of being stop lossed, I just found it innaccurate to see your calculations based on a perfect four year time period. Also, many people end up doing a gmo tour for a couple years, and then doing residency after that, which also lengthens the commitment. Plus, some just do a gmo tour straight for four years and then get out, occasionally having to repeat internship afterward. And then there are the residencies that increase your commitment in and of themselves.

So basically I just wanted to point out that your calculations are based on a best possible case scenario, of which there is no guarantee of receiving.

All that said, the difference in salary during internship and residency is a pretty big factor which is difficult to include. Having some extra time in service, I'm making almost twice as much as my civilian counterparts are, which is pretty nice.