St. Christopher's

don't you think the name cambridge student is a little misleading?

and why the advertisement for your school?

 

CambridgeStudent, do you know if Cambridge affiliated hospitals and the medical department accepts international students for electives/rotations? If so, how might I apply for one once I get into med school? I have looked on the website but must be missing something because I can't seem to find information on Cambridge medicine. One of my best friends is the physio for the Cambridge Boat Club and I want to visit...what better way than doing an elective/rotation ?

 

it just seems a little odd, as this was a new post offering unsolicited information on a med school. if you are replying to a post, you hit the post reply button, not a new topic.

i am not meaning to be petty, but i have a small problem with st chris trying to pass off all these affiliations with other schools. just renting facilities and having guest lecturers is fine and dandy. but, if AUC has a guest professor visit the island from Harvard, we would never hear about it. the school would not claim "harvard affiliation". and, the website for st chris was using pics of cabridge, etc. and they are an African school operating in England. all of this just seems like they are trying to pass themselves off as something that they are not.

anyhow, i do agree that the students there are happy and that it seems to be a fine option for offshore education. i just get a little fussy with what i percieve as evangalistic students...

 

CambridgeStudent,

to answer you questions: yes, I am a MS4 at the U. of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine. in KC Missouri, hence my screen name UHS2002. And just three sweet short months away to the end of my rotations

<img src="graemlins/clappy.gif" border="0" alt="[Clappy]" />

So having taken step II and finished clinical rotations in the US doesn't seem to me very impressive, as just about everyone in my class has done the same. I am sure that this individual teaching your Clinical Medicine class has something else on his resume to make him well qualified to teach you guys. So why not mention those other qualifications, rather than mention something that every senior medical student in the US has done. If his expertise is based solely on having finished his rotations in the US and passed step II, then I am assuming the dude hasn't even gone through a residency, is not board certified in anything (otherwise you should be boasting about him being faculty/staff at XYZ well renowed program), and any graduating MS4 should have just as "stellar qualifications". Am I making sense?!

 

I believe that the initial post was misinterpreted by many. From my point-of-view, he/she may be referring to a student who has taken the ICM course by a physician who has performed well in their professional career advancements. For example, boards and others. Additionally, he/she may have not been referring to a student who taught the course. I, myself, have communicated with a St. Christopher student via e-mail who is having a blast studying there. They do not employ students as professors, like many others (e.g. SABA --&gt; tuition exchange for teaching (many criticisms like student-to-student(hired as professors) ethical conduct, AUC --&gt; I know of a student who taught biostatistics in 97 (although he is qualified and have given a lot to other students, but it is unethical when grades are of concern) and much more).

Sometimes, words can easily be manipulated when it is not delivered correctly. I do understand where NeilC is coming from, as a med student from Charles, but please do not oversee why we are are here, as prospective or current students, to receive the best medical education in order to practice medicine in the US. Each and every legitimate opportunity is still an opportunity. Please foresee the bias that has been created by administrators of other universities.

I am a prospective student who wishes to obtain my MD because I know that chances of obtaining an entrance to a US medical school is slim. But if I were given the opportunity to study medicine at a beautiful campus who employs MDs and PhDs from UK and US, I am willing to take that risk. However, I am not willing to take a risk at schools that has yet built a foundation at an "excellent" education standard.

Please try to keep this international forum as clean as possible, with less badgering, but more hand-to-hand help. Remember, we are all on the same boat. "Lend a hand and you will receive a hand."

But if you wish you release your "unproven" bias towards any international medical schools, please do so at img.com.tripod.com or <a href="http://www.perfectdoctors.com." target="_blank">www.perfectdoctors.com.</a> Both of these are the same forum which offer access to forums which offers consistent bias towards schools from administrators and couch-potatoes with no career path.

Thank you.

 

One more thing, it is an honor to advertise a school that you attend. Is it of any shame? If I were accepted in a US MD, DO, or an international med school, I would certainly advertise it. I have little shame of advertising my choice of career path. Wouldn't you?

 

I personally don't know anything about St. Christopher's and since I'm not from the US and have no plans to practice there, all I can offer is this: The first post really did seem more like a advertisement than an information providing session. Why did you not call yourself "StChrisStudent"? Would this not have been more accurate? From an outsider's perspective, given the screen name you chose and your references to Cambridge University instructor's, it really does seem that you are trying to say your medical school is part of Cambridge University. Or maybe I've missed something, is this school one of the Cambridge University colleges?

 

Thank you "Cambridgestudent." Your post was definitely helpful. Just a little misinterpretation that was criticized. No worries.

As for others, thank you for your contribution from previous postings too. I have gained a lot of information in regards to medical school and St. Christopher.

Here's a question for you "Cambridgestudent," what is your experience with St. Christopher? As in your classroom experience; faculty:student engagement; and much more. I understand that many, if not all, US medical schools integrated pre-clinical curricula into their first two years of study, does St. Christopher also participate in such a program to help students gain experience in a clinical setting during their first two years of studies? What is the administration:student engagement? Do they understand the student's needs,etc? What is the average cost of living in Luton? Are students allowed to stay in U of Luton's dorms? What is the cost of living in the dorms? Or is it not a preference by most students? If not, where do most stay?

Secondly, what is your advise for prospective students who are thinking of applying or who have already applied?

Thanks.

--------------------------------------------

"Can't we all just get along?"

 

original comments #1 and 2 were perfectly legit. Comment #3 was getting a little ridiculous. Comment #4 was simply uncalled for.

 

how is that uncalled for? i had concerns, and i voiced them. ahhh, the beauty of free speech

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CambridgeStudent:
<strong>Hello Everyone,
I am currently a student attending St. Christopher's and have a few comments about the school.
1. The 1st three semesters are on the campus
of Luton University where the students
have access to EVERYTHING...from labs,
classrooms, internet access, health ins.,
gyms, ect.
2. The 4th and 5th semesters are located in
Cambridge surrounded by the prestigious
academic universities Cambridge has to
offer.
3. We DO have classes on the campus of
Cambridge University and many of the
Professors are instructors and
Physicians of Cambridge. There are also
Physicians from US med-schools who are
teaching here as well. I must say that
our ICM (Introduction to Clinical Med)
Class, which is instructed by a Doctor
that has just completed his rotations in
the US and passed his step II, is GREAT!!!
I feel that we are given excellent
preparation for clinicals.
4. I must say that it is my own opinion that
St. Christopher's has the BEST clinical
clerkship programs than ANY other FMS,
including Ross, AUC and St. Georges.
5. We NOW have a USMLE Review Class which
is in effect preparing us for the BIG ONE.

In short, I as well as many others are EXTREMELY happy here, but no matter where you go some might not be happy. It is up to each individual to find the "right" school for themself. Well, I have to get back to the books. Best of Luck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude, your "school" ( I use the term loosely) is not even a school????
your school is renting space at another school? What the Heck is that? How can anybody get away with this? How is California supposed to do a site visit, when the site to visit is the University of Luton? you have no real campus, other than a site in Senegal, which is never even mentioned or shown on the stchris.edu website ( are they ashamed?)and where nobody actually rotates? what the Heck is that all about?
one word FRAUD
you attend an African school that rents out spare space.this to me does not look very honest

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Finally, I would be embarrased if a medical student that had just finished clinical training and USMLE step 2 was teaching my physical diagnosis class, instead of a real doctor
<img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" />

when you get thrown out of residency when your school gets reported, please remember those fantastic times as a student at Cambridge when you take up a career as a subway busker paying off those high interest teri loans <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />

 

I understand your frustration towards a school that has decided to rent space in England. But this should not affect licensure in most states. St. Christopher is officially affiliated with the University of Luton.

As for using the word "rent" as an argument. You're kidding yourself. Please...many foreign schools geared towards US investors (students) are renting space.

Just remember that administrators post as students in these forums, especially Hanson's. So if you are an administrator, save your time and make better use of it.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NeedtoKnow:
<strong>I understand your frustration towards a school that has decided to rent space in England. But this should not affect licensure in most states. St. Christopher is officially affiliated with the University of Luton.

As for using the word "rent" as an argument. You're kidding yourself. Please...many foreign schools geared towards US investors (students) are renting space.

Just remember that administrators post as students in these forums, especially Hanson's. So if you are an administrator, save your time and make better use of it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">why is it that when a person points obvious problems, they are labeled a school administrator?
Excuse me, but please findone instance where I tried to lure a student to any school?
I think cambridge student and yourself are the only shills for any particular school with the blatant sycophant advertisement for st chris. I am only making observations, and to me any school that does what they did is dishonest. that does not make me an administrator, expecially since I never told anybody to go anywhere, did I?
Same old tactic though, try to discredit a peson that has a valid point in an attempt to invalidate their point.
I am not an administrator.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NeedtoKnow:
<strong>

Just remember that administrators post as students in these forums</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just a note to say that your friendly Forum Moderator here has a very good and experienced ear for this sort of thing, as well as ability to check IPs, etc.

 

Wow, ok. As future med students from the US, we're displaying a huge amount of ignorance here. Cambridge is a region in England - the whole place is not Cambridge University. As such, do you not think there could be several colleges in Cambridge, just as there are several colleges in London or several universities in Cincinnati? Therefore, "Cambridgestudent" is in no way misleading...it's only so because people are not knowledgeable enough to look past the initial assumption that this kid must go to Cambridge University. His/her name is not CambridgeUnivstudent.

As far as St. Christopher's, I don't know much about the school because I only looked into schools in England very briefly before I decided that I didn't want to study medicine there for various reasons. However, as far as I have heard from a couple US pre-med advisors even (the few that know about international schools), St. Christopher's has excellent reputation and produces fine doctors. You would look down on a school that "rents" space? I feel so sorry for you, it's that elitist attitude that has no place in medicine.

So as far as this whole thread is concerned...I have no idea why people felt the urge to criticize Cambridge Student so harshly, and it is completely unwarranted, the guy was providing info for someone who asked. He should be proud of his school and should have no qualms about praising it. Cambridgestudent, good luck in your future endeavors and hope the blind minds and harsh tongues of a few don't discourage you.

 

if this was a post in reply to something, then where is the original question??? it looked to me like a random advertisement...

and, sure cambridge is a town. i just don't think of myself as "praguestudent", you are a student of the university you attend not the city it is in. i bet if my screen name was "princetonstudent" people would assume that i went to princeton, even if i was a student at downtown upstairs medical school and beauty college in princeton. the bottom line is, sure st. chris seems wonderful and the students are happy. it has just been my experience that they try to pass themselves off as an english school, which they are not. i don't have any problem with st. chris or its students, i just react a bit when i feel that some misleading info is out there.

the facts are the st chris is not doing anything that other carib schools aren't doing. they have guest lecturers from great schools, they rent facilities (and better facilities than most carib schools, i am sure). they most likely are doing several things better than other carib schools, because the students are happy.

my point is that the school and the students should stick with advertising the legit selling points of the school, which seem to be many, and to stop trying to convince students that it is cambridge or luton or wherever. (and it seems that they have realized that, as most recent posts seem to emphasize the academics and benefits of living there, not the "affiliations") it is a good offshore school located in england. period.

having a little bit of thick skin helps on these boards. be prepared to read opposing views, as that is why we are here. i can't tell you how many times i have been accused of being a recruiter because i give a positive response to an inquiry on my school, or when i make a negative statement about another. i think most of us are not trying to be mean or petty, but to ask legit questions. but, take it in stride, formulate a well thought out response and take the high road. the name callers out there are just stirring the beans, looking for a good argument.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by neilc:
<strong>how is that uncalled for? i had concerns, and i voiced them. ahhh, the beauty of free speech</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">really sorry, neilc. I was not referring to you. I also talking about the different comments made by the original poster in the original post. my words were confusing.

 

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EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS:

There were three threads comparing SGU and St. Chris that were started between December 20 and 21, and another asking info about St. Chris started in mid-June. All went mostly un-replied to. I beleive this thread, started Jan. 26, is probably replying to those.

I figure the poster had seen the posts earlier, then came back later to find them, but his default setting was set to "Show posts of last 30 days." And so, new to the Forums and not finding the prior threads, the poster started this thread; so in this sense, it was very probably solicited.

My honest opinion is that there is no malicious propogandizing going on here, with that defined as an interested individual manipulating people and information for their own self-interests. Really, I just see a student giving his or her opinion.

To cambridgestudent, don't take the suspicion and critiques against you too personally. A lot of folks engaged in IMG matters really have had reason to be gun-shy over certain things in the past. I hope you can be understanding over it, and go on contributing to the Forums.

Regards,

Stephen Ewen

 

Hi everyone...

This forum has been extremely interesting and confusing as well. I just applied to St. Chris a couple of months back and received admission. I'm now trying to decide if I should go to St.Chris or go to UCLA Public Health school while applying to US med schools for the first time in June. Anyone have insights on St.Chris that can help me make a CRITICAL decision in my life?

Thanks

 

"Students from Saint Christopher?s College of Medicine experienced great success in the March 2001 residency match. We will have residencies at many prestigious program including The Mayo Clinic, University of Maryland,
University of Texas and Saint Mary?s."- from the St. Christopher's Website.

Then onus is on the school and its students to provide proof of the school's quality and achievements. Statements, such as the above, or student testimonials are not evidence of a university's quality and ability to produce capable members of the medical profession. Who does St. Chris answer to? A true university has a social responsibility to the community to which it belongs. I'm sure if I called Mugabe and offered him a hundred grand, he'd grant me a Zimbabwean charter for a Medical School. I could then turn around and open 'Greatest Med School in the World' out of my garage and espouse the wonderful education the student's receive and the great success they've had on American standardised tests. But, you know what? I'd damn well wouldn't want them as my doctor. New med schools open due to increased pressure for medical resources in that particular society. Some Carribean schools have been notable exceptions, created to feed a great demand from the US. But let's be honest, the explosion in private medical schools, chartered in one country, operating in another, offering rotations in yet a third, created from any niche available, cannot be taken seriously by the medical community.

 

I don't see this school on the WHO list of medical schools. Is this school legit? And if so, what country is it chartered under? Will being chartered and located in two different countries pose problems in the states? I'm not insulting the school---these are serious questions that I hope someone can answer.
-seth

 

Dear CambridgeStudent,

Your post about the St. Christopher's College of Medicine was interesting and upon reading it I knew that you could definitely answer some questions I had about the school. First, it was releaving to hear that you are having a GREAT experience there and that you're genuinely enjoying the program. At the moment, I'm at UCLA and before I was to apply to any U.S. Schools I was looking at other options. Many of my close mentors berated the Carribean Schools but told me that they had heard great things about St. Chris. Thus, I applied for September 2002 and already spoke with Dr. Leone. He accepted me into the program and I was honored but wanted to get some further insight from a student of St. Chris. Do we live in the dorms at Luton and Cambridge? Do the dorm rooms have internet access? Do you have roommates? How many people per class? Do you have close interactions with faculty? How's the cost of living..do we have cafeteria's to eat from or do we have to cook? Sorry to bombard you with questions but I just wanted to know how the living situation and student life was like. Thanks!

And if anyone else had further insights on St. Chris I really need to hear them before I decide if I want to attend there or go to UCLA Public Health School to attain my MPH while I applied to U.S. Med Schools. It's such a long process though and if can start my med eduation sooner and if St. Chris is good I'd like to go. It's just so confusing when I hear so many different viewpoints on St.Chris. I'm confused and need some direction so HELP please! I have 10 days to make my final decision (they give you 30 days to decide like all schools usually do). thanks guys...I really appreiate it!

 

Hey luwi! I was just accepted also. I spoke to Dr. Leone and Ms. Schroeder over the phone. Both are awesome! I don't know about the living situation there, however. Ms. Schroeder assured me that new students (1-3rd semesters) at Luton usually take over the previous student's dorm-space at the Luton Univerisity. The dorm website is <a href="http://www.thestudentvillage.com." target="_blank">www.thestudentvillage.com.</a> As for cambridge (4th and 5th), the St. Chris website lists the various options. You may wish you live off-campus while your stay in Luton. As for me, I found that to be quite expensive.

There is a cafeteria on the Luton campus. But I have yet received a confirmation from Ms. Schroeder as to whether they have meal plans. On the other hand, all Luton dorms have a kitchem inside if you want to cook.

As for the dorm itself, Ms. Schroeder stated that the students will have to buy a cellphone since their is no phone jack in the dorms. So I am just second-guessing that there may be no internet access within the dorms.

As for professor-to-student ratio, Dr. Leone stated during our conversation that it was 1:10 ratio. As for Anatomy, it is 1:4.

As for England itself, here's a copy a post that was directed to me on this forum entitled "Studying in England" by FionaS.

----------------------------------------

Well, hi there, I happen to be a student in the UK. To answer your questions:

The weather is mainly rain - as you'd expect. The westcountry (southwest - Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset etc) is warmest and wettest - and is also the main holiday destination. Snow is rare, but so is really hot weather! Scotland is the coldest, along with North England. The Southeast (which includes London, Cambridge and Oxford - just) is the hottest and dryest area of the UK, but there isn't actually that much difference.

London is by far and away the most expensive part to live in (most expensive city in Europe apparently) - rent there is double that elsewhere for a room/flat of half the size. Basically the further North or West you go, the cheaper it is.

As for travel in the UK - connections between Ireland and GB are best made by plane - companies like easyjet, go, bmibaby are the most likely to give you cheap tickets. Within GB, neither train or bus is great, but I much prefer trains - when they run. The railways are going thourgh a bit of a crisis at the moment, so trains running several hours late a pretty normal. Coach is awful (really cramped if you're 5'11"), but if you're going somewhere obscure they might be an idea. Get yourself an ISIC card (?6 -whatever that is in dollars) and then get a Young Person's Railcard (?18 - valid for a year). This gets you a 1/3 off most train tickets, and always book at least 2 weeks in advance otherwise your pocket will really feel it (for example, if I want to travel Plymouth to B'ham return (about 200 miles) and book 2 weeks in advance I pay ?10ish, but if I book the day before I pay ?100ish - big difference!).

Living all over varies so much - students sharing a student house normally pay about ?45-50 a week (except in London - about ?90/wk there). If you're renting on your own in professional acc the price rises quite dramatically.

As for studying in the UK, I've only got experience of Med Shool here (since this is my first degree), but I'm told (I don't know how accurate that is though!) that american degrees are a lot more structured than UK degrees with more timetabled teaching etc, so you might find it a little unstructured to begin with. As far as medicine is concerned, it's pretty much the most structured degree there is in the UK, but it varies between Universities.

England generally is quite an expensive place to live, especially if you want to run a car (easily the best way to get around) - petrol, insurance and tax all just keep on going up (I pay (approx!) ?180 tax/yr, ?500/yr insurance and a minimum of ?10/wk on petrol at about 78p a litre). Alcohol and Cigarettes also have a big markup on them, so buy them duty free (which you can do easily enough by crossing the France/UK border, esp if you're close to London).

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Thanks for the insights NeedtoKnow! That was really helpful. So, will you be going in May or September? I take it that you approve of the school and the program? Do you have Ms. Schroeder and Dr.Leone's phone number? How do you communicate with them? I tried e-mailing Dr.Leone but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. Thanks again!

 

I am not sure if I can release Ms. Schroeder's e-mail over an open forum. This may overload her work with e-mails. You may wish to contact St. Chris' New Jersey office. They are really helpful. They will provide you with her e-mail, as well as others. As for Dr. Leone, I only spoke to him once when he interviewed me over the phone.

As for the school itself, there are pros and cons. The pros are that all courses are held in England and not the caribbean. The professors are only from the US, UK, and a few european countries. Class sizes are small. The benefit of this is that I will be able to get to know the professor and other students. Since you are a bruin, you should know the class size there. For example, my LS1 course during freshman year was overloaded. Almsot 400 students.

The cons are competitiveness. Since the class-size is small, competition is strong. But this is a good thing for me, I think. This will force me to study harder. Secondly, prices are said to be higher than the US. You may expect to pay two times the amount in westwood. They don't have a free student bus system over there taking you from one spot of the campus to the next either. So, I am budgeting for bus fares too until I reach Luton. Lastly, the weather. Remember how the weather was about a month ago -- rain, patchy clouds, cold temps -- that is the way I am imagining how the weather will be over there after reading Fiona's response.