St George Vs. Ross

[rny330]

I have the option of St. George in Jan or Ross in September...St. George in January is essentially equivalent of taking a year off...

From what I hear, the only two respected international schools (for getting back into and practicing in the United States, that is) are Ross and St. George...I'm aware that St. George has a slightly better reputation, but I am also aware that Ross is basically as good a school academically now, and some even argue that it is better than St. George...

My main concern is for specialty...I am not interested in primary care and definitely want to specialize - what school provides more specialists and what is my better bet?

Thanks.

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[spinestudent]

Looking at the match lists, SGU appears to have more matches in certain fields(EM in particular) than Ross. But it's important to note that both match lists are mainly primary care, and neither match list produces enough of the 5 or 6 most competitive specialties so as to believe that ross/sgu students have a realistic shot at these.

I think it all depends on what kind of specialty you want. Some specialties are very easy to get. These are neurology, pathology, psychiatry, and PM&R. But if you want to specialize in something other than these, EM, anesthesia, or general surgery, you should not be considering either school.

 

[awdc]

Originally posted by rny330
I have the option of St. George in Jan or Ross in September...St. George in January is essentially equivalent of taking a year off...

From what I hear, the only two respected international schools (for getting back into and practicing in the United States, that is) are Ross and St. George...I'm aware that St. George has a slightly better reputation, but I am also aware that Ross is basically as good a school academically now, and some even argue that it is better than St. George...

My main concern is for specialty...I am not interested in primary care and definitely want to specialize - what school provides more specialists and what is my better bet?

Thanks.

If I were in your position, I would go for St. George because their graduates do seem to get into non-primary care specialties at a higher rate than Ross grads. After looking at the match lists, I think that the differences are significant enough. Besides, I wouldn't want to look back wondering what might have been if...

Besides, St. George is on Grenada, a better developed island. Med school is hard enough as it is without having to adjust to life in an undeveloped country. And since your goal is to specialize, I would think that you definitely don't want any unwelcome difficulties during your studies.

I don't see how starting in St. George is equivalent to taking a year off, though. It's only four months, equivalent to a quarter or a semester at most. You'll have to enlighten me on this one.

 

[Apollyon]

The "lost year" is that, if you start in January, you complete pre-clinical in December; clinical starts the following June, and the graduation year is bumped back one, versus starting in August.

 

[spinestudent]

awdc, I think he means it's like taking a year off because an SGU student who starts in Jan will be one match year behind a Ross student who starts in Sept. I could be wrong though.

rny330, another factor to consider between the two schools is cost. Right now it cost 150k in just tuition alone(30k x 5 academic years) to graduate from Ross. BY the time you graduate it will probably be closer to 150k. Even if you live frugally in Grenada and NYC(hard to do), but the time you pay for all the tests and living expenses, you are looking at 230k+ entering residency. Deferring the loans during your residency and the total will be about 275k when you are out of residency. Ross would still be very expensive of course, but the difference in tuition between Ross and SGI is about 50k. That's not a trivial amount.

I still think going to any carribean school with the idea that you wouldn't be happy doing primary care is a mistake. The great majority of grads at both sgu and ross end up in pc.

 

[pitman]

Originally posted by rny330
From what I hear, the only two respected international schools (for getting back into and practicing in the United States, that is) are Ross and St. George...

Um, maybe the only two respected int'l schools south of the border (Caribbean + Central America). England, Ireland, Israel and Australia all have respected programs, and at least Israel (e.g., Sackler) and Australia, but likely all, have a good record for getting back to the US for residency.

-Pitman

 

[yipeee]

another factor to consider between the two schools is cost.

I agree. Many people chose to go to Ross b/c they "wanted to have more money in their pockets". Also, that you go straight through the basic sciences and are out of the island in 4 semesters. With the Advanced clinical science portion done in Miami.

 

[Grateful]

Reality check:

If you are considering attending a Caribbean Med School, the real question is not "Which school will give me the better opportunity for a competitive Residency?".

The bottom-line question is "Do I want to attend Podiatry School, Physician Assistant Program, Nursing School, or have a 96% chance of being accepted into a FP or IM Residency Program as a Caribbean Med School Graduate?"

Some Caribbean grads (from any of the Carib schools) will win the lottery with good USMLE scores and PD recommendations but don't count on it.

The Caribbean route is a great opportunity to realize the dream of becoming a Doctor and earning a decent living.

If before you even get started you a "very concerned" about obtaining a competitive Residency and you are not able to get into a US Med School, you should probably consider the possibilities of an MBA or Computer Engineering degree.

Just my thoughts.

 

[spinestudent]

>>If you are considering attending a Caribbean Med School, the >>real question is not "Which school will give me the better >>opportunity for a competitive Residency?".

I agree for the most part.

>>The bottom-line question is "Do I want to attend Podiatry >>School, Physician Assistant Program, Nursing School, or have a >>96% chance of being accepted into a FP or IM Residency >>Program as a Caribbean Med School Graduate?"

Around 60-65% of SGU grads and 70% of Ross grads end up doing FP or IM. I have no idea where you got the 96% figure from. It's important to keep in mind that there are noncompetitive specialties out there if one doesn't want IM or FP. Pathology, Neurology, and Psychiatry are all wide open for Carribean grads. Anesthesiology is within range for many carribean students.

Also, remember that when one field gets more competitive another field becomes less competitive. Many are predicting that categorical general surgery spots will be an impossible match for carribean graduates in the next few years. If that's the case, then those general surgery spots taken by AMGs will have come at the expense of another residency which will have spots open for IMGs. Perhaps these will come in the form of more university IM programs, more anesthesiology spots, or more EM spots.

>>Some Caribbean grads (from any of the Carib schools) will win >>the lottery with good USMLE scores and PD recommendations >>but don't count on it.

I don't think performing well on the usmle is anything like wining the lottery.

For the most part, I agree with your point. Nobody should expect to match into a *competitive* residency coming from ANY foreign school. It just seems that every time carribean schools are discussed, the general attitude is either:

1) there is little disadvantage in going to Ross/SGU as opposed to a US school and good board scores make up for any disadvantage
2) Virtually nobody from Ross/SGU gets a US residency and these schools exist only to take money from naive american students
3) Even if you get a US residency from Ross/SGU, you will almost certainly be dodging bullets doing an IM residency where nobody in the hospital except you speaks english and you spend 95% of your time transporting patients and inserting IVs

It's interesting that the only posters who don't articulate one of the above 3 viewpoints are actual students and graduates of Ross/SGU.

 

[Grateful]

"Around 60-65% of SGU grads and 70% of Ross grads end up doing FP or IM. I have no idea where you got the 96% figure from. It's important to keep in mind that there are noncompetitive specialties out there if one doesn't want IM or FP. Pathology, Neurology, and Psychiatry are all wide open for Carribean grads. Anesthesiology is within range for many carribean students."

So are you saying that Ross/SGU Grads only have a 60-70% chance of obtaining IM or FP Residency??


"I don't think performing well on the usmle is anything like wining the lottery. "

I would agree that performing well on the USMLE is not like winning the lottery. But, being a Caribbean Med School Grad with great USMLE scores and ending up with a competitive Residency IS like winning the lottery.


Just my thoughts.

 

[spinestudent]

>>So are you saying that Ross/SGU Grads only have a 60-70% >>chance of obtaining IM or FP Residency??

huh? They have a near 100% chance of obtaining one of these residencies somewhere if they want IM or FP. Since 97-99% of SGU/Ross students match, that obviously mean 25%-35% are going into peds, path, psych, gas, neurology, obgyn, etc.....


>>I would agree that performing well on the USMLE is not like >>winning the lottery. But, being a Caribbean Med School Grad >>with great USMLE scores and ending up with a competitive >>Residency IS like winning the lottery.

I think a lot of it depends on what competitive means. If you mean Competitive compared to the US standard(ortho, derm, IM at a top 5, ent), I'd agree that getting one of these spots face lottery-like odds.

But I think it's fair to say that many medical students, even some US medical students, aren't obsessed with matching a super competitive residency. Let me ask you a question- would pathology at OSU be a competitive match? Would IM at U of Wisconsin be a competitive match? Would OBgyn at the university of Indiana be a competitive match? These matches were all obtained by Ross/SGU students, and they certainly aren't outliers compared to the graduating class as a whole.(The outliers are the guy who matched neuro, the guy who matched ortho, etc) No, the 3 matches listed above aren't really competitive matches, but for people wanting to go into these fields they will be more than adequate should they choose to later pursue a fellowship or private practice. And those sort of matches are very attainable for an IM.

 

[Grateful]

"huh? They have a near 100% chance of obtaining one of these residencies somewhere if they want IM or FP. Since 97-99% of SGU/Ross students match, that obviously mean 25%-35% are going into peds, path, psych, gas, neurology, obgyn, etc....."

Sooo... then I guess you do agree with my original post:

>>The bottom-line question is "Do I want to attend Podiatry >>School, Physician Assistant Program, Nursing School, or have a >>96% chance of being accepted into a FP or IM Residency >>Program as a Caribbean Med School Graduate?"

As for the rest of your post re:

"Let me ask you a question- would pathology at OSU be a competitive match? Would IM at U of Wisconsin be a competitive match? Would OBgyn at the university of Indiana be a competitive match? These matches were all obtained by Ross/SGU......"

I don't have a clue whether they are competitive matches or not.

 

[Grateful]

I did 2 years worth of du-diligence checking out Ross and SGU. I've attended 3 Ross Info seminars and 1 SGU seminar.

I feel very comfortable with my decision to provide a current Ross student with 50% of the $$ for their Med Schl education.

Over the past 35 yrs I've worked with FMGs, IMGs, and AMGs. I can honestly say it's more important as to the dedication and character of the Dr. than where they graduated from.

Just my thoughts.

Best wishes for success Spinestudent.

 

[gregfoti]

Dear my330,

Hello...I am a MS-IV from AUC (American University of the Caribbean). Just a quick word about caribbean schools.

If you are willing to work hard and you obtain the grades and knowledge to do very well on your step 1, do most clinicals in the states and excel and receive good letters of rec. than any specialty can be yours. Do not beleive these people and rumors that Family practice and Internal med is the end of the line because basically it is all rumor and if you check the facts, yes most (65-75%) caribbean grads go into Family practice, Internal med etc. but then the others go into all sorts of specialties; Dermatology, Radiology, Surgery.

I have personally known many students from my school, Saba and Ross that have matched into the most competitive spots. They were at the top of the class, very intelligent and hard working.

So, I think you are safe with any choice you make...why wait a year? Go for Ross and start kicking a** now. A word of caution though, Ross is on the island Dominica and there is not much on this island. Just for kicks, check out AUC, it is on St. Maarten and is much more modern and "Americanized". I know people who have left Ross and come to AUC because of this reason; they just cold not handle the "nothingness" of Ross. But, I also know people who left AUC to go to Ross.

Just remeber this, no matter which school you attend there will be a lot of rumors...do NOT beleive them...do your own research, look up docs in the states and talk to them about it (99.5% of them are very happy to have a chat on the phone). Ignore these rumors and work very hard and before you know it you will be sitting in the US happy that you made it and laughing because of all of the wonderful local islanders you met along the way that made you appreciate life and a lot more well rounded.

Good luck and just stay focused.