St George's University is the best Caribbean Medical School, right?

[softmed]

This one: http://www.sgu.edu/

Right? I'm considering applying. Especially since they say that have a 99% residency placement in the United States. That's fantastic. The only problem is probably financial aid, right?

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[IndianVercetti]

:troll:

 

[softmed]

:troll:

I'm not trolling...

If I'm wrong then tell me.

 

[JoshUNCW]

I don't want to call you a troll. But after 300 posts, don't you know how to use the search function?

 

[softmed]

I don't want to call you a troll. But after 300 posts, don't you know how to use the search function?

I didn't know that was working again. Usually I start to make the topic and a bunch of related ones pop up, but that didn't happen this time so I assumed it was still down.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I didn't know that was working again. Usually I start to make the topic and a bunch of related ones pop up, but that didn't happen this time so I assumed it was still down.

Search function is back up. I was unaware that that function was still down, I'll see if that's intentional or not.

 

[JoshUNCW]

I didn't know that was working again. Usually I start to make the topic and a bunch of related ones pop up, but that didn't happen this time so I assumed it was still down.

If that's the case it's cool, fyi, there was a google search function at the top that always works even if the forum search doesn't. It's not as precise, but it is a search function. Although I understand not everyone knows about it.

 

[JoshUNCW]

Search function is back up. I was unaware that that function was still down, I'll see if that's intentional or not.

It was down for a while after you guys changed servers, apparently it created an extra stress on them or something.

 

[GoSpursGo]

It was down for a while after you guys changed servers, apparently it created an extra stress on them or something.

Oh yes, I remember that. Those were dark days indeed

I'm not sure what the deal is about the "find similar threads" function that doesn't seem to be working right now, though. Thanks for letting us know

Anyways, /hijack.

 

[hippocraticoath]

This one: http://www.sgu.edu/

Right? I'm considering applying. Especially since they say that have a 99% residency placement in the United States. That's fantastic. The only problem is probably financial aid, right?

Oh yes they are. They're better than Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Why they're in the same league as the renowned Stewart University SOM. You should apply and attend SGU while you can.

 

[circulus vitios]

Oh yes they are. They're better than Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Why they're in the same league as the renowned Stewart University SOM. You should apply and attend SGU while you can.

It's funny because you're not even a medical student.

 

[JoshUNCW]

Oh yes they are. They're better than Harvard and Johns Hopkins. Why they're in the same league as the renowned Stewart University SOM. You should apply and attend SGU while you can.

I wish I was a "premed" when Stewart University was open. I would loved to have seen that website.

 

[ronaldo23]

This one: http://www.sgu.edu/

Right? I'm considering applying. Especially since they say that have a 99% residency placement in the United States. That's fantastic. The only problem is probably financial aid, right?

if this is a serious thread (which it may be since you have 300+ posts), 99% of the 60-70% who don't flunk out after year 1 and 2 (or get held back, or fail step I) get into a US residency. And of that, 75+% is in primary care in largely undesirable locations.

 

[Morsetlis]

if this is a serious thread (which it may be since you have 300+ posts), 99% of the 60-70% who don't flunk out after year 1 and 2 (or get held back, or fail step I) get into a US residency. And of that, 75+% is in primary care in largely undesirable locations.

First of all, flunking out is your own fault.

Second of all, a US residency is a US residency. Even IM residencies can subspec into well-paying specialities such as cardiology and GI.

Third of all, you can complete a second residency after you finish your primary-care residency. In fact, I think it'd be good for every doctor to know how to provide primary care first. This is why residencies such as radiology usually require you to complete a 1-year medicine or surgery internship before starting radiology.

The Caribbeans isn't the end of the world. I know many happy IMG/FMG working at my local hospitals.

 

[IndianVercetti]

by the way, softmed, let me apologize - i read your other posts, you are clearly not a troll. I hope things work out for you.

 

[J1515]

How long until someone posts an SGU matchlist? I say before the end of page 2.

 

[IndianVercetti]

How long until someone posts an SGU matchlist? I say before the end of page 2.

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2010/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

Just for comic relief

 

[Ponger]

First of all, flunking out is your own fault.

Second of all, a US residency is a US residency. Even IM residencies can subspec into well-paying specialities such as cardiology and GI.

Third of all, you can complete a second residency after you finish your primary-care residency. In fact, I think it'd be good for every doctor to know how to provide primary care first. This is why residencies such as radiology usually require you to complete a 1-year medicine or surgery internship before starting radiology.

The Caribbeans isn't the end of the world. I know many happy IMG/FMG working at my local hospitals.

I'd like to address some of your points if you don't mind.

1) While there's no question that self-motivation has a good deal to do with whether a person flunks out or not, a school that doesn't care about attrition rate is a school that doesn't care about its students. There's a reason the US medical 4-year graduation rate is ~96%. Once you matriculate, it's as much their responsibility to train you to become a successful physician as it is you to work hard to become one.

2) With all due respect, your residency example is kinda bunk. The well-paying IM specialties are not really comparable to a ROADs specialty. True you 'could' potentially make as much doing cardiology as radiology, but you'd be working terrible hours on-call all the time. It's like those cops who manage to make $100k per year. It's a lot of money, but they're working 40-50hrs a week at time and half overtime pay on top of the standard 40 hours.

3) It sounds all well and good to do a different residency after your first one but in all practicality that's a terrible idea. I can't imagine someone would voluntarily choose to waste three years doing a primary care residency knowing they were going to reapply afterwards. Loans don't just get put on hold while your executing your master plan. If you just improved your med school application and reapplied in the first place to an American med school you'd save yourself infinite amounts of headache and money.

While I agree with you that Caribbean schools aren't the end of the world, it just makes more sense to improve your application and reapply American MD/DO. A little more effort now pays off big later (as with most things).

 

[Morsetlis]

Improving applications, mostly via taking extra classes / enrolling in programs also cost time and money. Remember that years spent doing residency are actually slightly positive years, while years spend in classrooms are always financially negative years.

Finally, if somebody even has to consider the Caribbeans, I'm not sure they should even be thinking about ROAD.

I'm not advocating for the Caribbeans, but it's not so bad as it seems.

 

[richse]

https://baysgu35.sgu.edu/ERD/2010/ResidPost.nsf/BYPGY?OpenView&RestrictToCategory=PGY2&Count=-1

Just for comic relief

Besides IM and FM I see people matching to Anesthesiology, Radiology, EM, Neuro and Ortho on there. Am I missing something? Why is it so bad?

 

[Morsetlis]

It's 4 years behind from when YOU would graduate and match. There's certain Congressional mandates or whatnot considering increasing the number of USMD/DO graduates while NOT increasing the number of residencies funded by Medicare, thus creating a constricting effect for spots available for IMG/FMG.

 

[IndianVercetti]

Besides IM and FM I see people matching to Anesthesiology, Radiology, EM, Neuro and Ortho on there. Am I missing something? Why is it so bad?

Notice how it doesn't state whether these are categorical or preliminary post residencies. Most of the non-IM residencies that the grads are matching into are preliminary posts - meaning that you are essentially given 1 year in the program, and then have to reapply once again. Often times when you reapply after doing a preliminary post, you have to restart the entire residency once again.

 

[ronaldo23]

First of all, flunking out is your own fault.

Second of all, a US residency is a US residency. Even IM residencies can subspec into well-paying specialities such as cardiology and GI.

Third of all, you can complete a second residency after you finish your primary-care residency. In fact, I think it'd be good for every doctor to know how to provide primary care first. This is why residencies such as radiology usually require you to complete a 1-year medicine or surgery internship before starting radiology.

The Caribbeans isn't the end of the world. I know many happy IMG/FMG working at my local hospitals.

Edit: ponger already made all my points.

I will say also that the IM residencies at subpar/mediocre programs have much fewer opportunites for fellowship. A large percentage of the people who end up in cards/GI come from the good residencies of pcp.

 

[goldandapager]

One of my uncles went to St. Georges and ended up in a cardiology fellowship at WashU. Have hope.

 

[Ponger]

One of my uncles went to St. Georges and ended up in a cardiology fellowship at WashU. Have hope.

Agreed, there's nothing wrong with hoping. But from a strictly pragmatic point of view, its much easier being the guy who looks back and thinks "man I pulled off the improbable getting a good fellowship after going to a Carib school" after the fact than being the guy who thinks "I can be that outlier who makes it" beforehand

 

[morning]

If you are absolutely DETERMINED to be a doc I think Caribbean is better than nothing, but you have to be extremely self-motivated. You won't be supported like you will at an American med school. You have to make a commitment to be your own teacher.

There are 11 new med schools coming down the pike, as well as a few new ones that recently ones, so this might be the last gasp for Caribbean students getting into US residencies. Less applicable to you because you're applying this cycle, but it's something to think about. Why not go all-DO next round instead?

 

[Daedra22]

If you are absolutely DETERMINED to be a doc I think Caribbean is better than nothing, but you have to be extremely self-motivated. You won't be supported like you will at an American med school. You have to make a commitment to be your own teacher.

There are 11 new med schools coming down the pike, as well as a few new ones that recently ones, so this might be the last gasp for Caribbean students getting into US residencies. Less applicable to you because you're applying this cycle, but it's something to think about. Why not go all-DO next round instead?

^ I second this. Is there a reason you haven't considered DO schools? Financial aid would not be a problem, you'd get to stay in the US, and most DO schools do not have the same flunking issue.

 

[Ponger]

Improving applications, mostly via taking extra classes / enrolling in programs also cost time and money. Remember that years spent doing residency are actually slightly positive years, while years spend in classrooms are always financially negative years.

Finally, if somebody even has to consider the Caribbeans, I'm not sure they should even be thinking about ROAD.

I'm not advocating for the Caribbeans, but it's not so bad as it seems.

So you're saying it's a better financial decision to do a three year residency then reapply for the residency you really want than to spend a year retaking courses and reapply for an American MD/DO? Not even close. Assuming that taking another year cost you somewhere between $40-50k, that is still no where near the opportunity cost of losing two full-income post-residency years.

Example one. At age 22, you enter a Carib school, graduate at 26, do a three year primary care residency at an average of $50k, and then start a 4 year anesthesia residency also at average $50k per year. At age 33 you start making $175k.

Example two. At age 22 you spend a year redoing your application and rack up $50k in debt. At 23, you enter an American MD and graduate at 27. You start a 4 year anesthesia residency at $50k per year. And at age 31 you start making $175k.

In example two you'll more than make back that $50k from earlier on by having two more full-income years. That's not even accounting for the fact that a public American MD is almost certainly a cheaper option and that an American MD is much more likely to lead to you getting a ROADs specialty than a Carib one would.

Addressing your second point, once you get into an american med school the slate is wiped clean and it doesn't matter who had better stats going into med school. The person who gets accepted off the waitlist has just as much opportunity to match ROADs as someone who was accepted first. At that point its all about who is willing to work harder. This rule doesn't extend to the Carib schools nearly as well though.

 

[Stacks101]

It's an amazing institution I'll tell you that. However, the tuition is comparable to the private med schools in the US.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Thanks for putting up the link to their website. I wasn't too sure about which St. George med school you were referring to.

 

[Ischemic]

I agree with everything that has been said already by everyone else. However, I just want to reiterate the fact that going carib should be your very last option when you've exhausted every other option here in the US. I almost went to SGU myself before realizing that I should give it one more shot through a post-bac program and that decision paid off amazingly well. I cannot begin to tell you how much more opportunity going to a US med school has opened up to me compared to if I had gone to SGU. I know the feeling of frustration and desperation that invariably occurs in this process but trying to relieve it by going straight to caribs without seeing if you can make it here in the US first feels like a cop-out. It's a struggle and it wasn't easy but no one said that those things worth fighting for in life should be easy to obtain, otherwise you just won't appreciate it.

 

[DubVille]

Just to let some of you know... The government only pays for you to do one residency. If you decide to do rads after IM (or whatever you desire) you will make no money and have to front your own malpractice, etc. So in reality they are not "positive" years at all.

 

[ronaldo23]

Just to let some of you know... The government only pays for you to do one residency. If you decide to do rads after IM (or whatever you desire) you will make no money and have to front your own malpractice, etc. So in reality they are not "positive" years at all.

are you sure about this? So if someone practices IM for 10 years and decides they want to change fields, they get no residency salary? Or are you referring to if you do one residency simultaneously followed by another?

 

[DubVille]

I apologize, I was not entirely correct before. A second residency will be partially funded by the medicare, but at about 50% of the "usual" rate. So basically you can either hope the program loves you so much they will pay the difference to take you, or you can pay. Either way I would be surprised if a training facility would take on the financial responsibility unless it has to.

This brochure is pretty informative and brief:
http://services.aamc.org/publicatio...version57.pdf&prd_id=153&prv_id=180&pdf_id=57

Sorry about the misinformation!

 

[circulus vitios]

Just to let some of you know... The government only pays for you to do one residency. If you decide to do rads after IM (or whatever you desire) you will make no money and have to front your own malpractice, etc. So in reality they are not "positive" years at all.

I thought it went by x years and not just "one residency."

edit: I just read your last post.