Stanford vs Harvard

[diego]

Yes, I do realize that this is obviously an ideal choice that few (including myself) will be given, but I was wondering hypothetically how everyone would make a choice between these two. I am well aware of the most obvious difference being that one is west cost, the other east, so there's no need to post if your decision would be made based on proximity to a signif other or familiy. How about considering the following:
1. Location/Quality of Life
2. Curriculum
3. Cost of living
4. Clinincal training
5. Faculty/Administrative support
6. Students and student life
7. Reputation
8. Residency Matching

Last thing (sorry obout the length of this post)- I have seen Harvard's match list, but has anyone seen Stanford's? I was interested to see how Stanford does in placing its students in competitive residencies and whether there is a trend towards students placing more often into primary care, or towards subspecialty. Thanks guys

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[Stanford Fencer]

no place like stanford .. happiest place on earth.

 

[Scooby Doo]

Damn..what a doozie of a first post!

you've already been accepted to both harvard and stanford? Damn...just go with the big H...

 

[Procrastinator]

Stanford has a stellar rep, but come on, get real, it still pales in comparison to Harvard

 

[vyc]

one really big difference between these two great schools is the curriculum.
stanford is heavily lecture-based and harvard is almost completely PBL. so which do you like more?

harvard has newer and nicer facilities.

1. Location/Quality of Life
Stanford has SF and Harvard has Boston.
i think both locations, if you don't care about weather, have a lot to offer.

3. Cost of living
high at both places

4. Clinincal training
this is an interesting question... i'm not sure about Stanford's clinical training but Harvard's has got to be top notch. they are right at the center of this country's best hospitals.

5. Faculty/Administrative support
it seems like both have good support.

6. Students and student life
seemed happy at both places

7. Reputation
harvard's #1 and stanford's #9 but i think both are highly respected. equally respected? i don't know.

8. Residency Matching
i haven't seen stanford's but harvard's is out of control, amazing.

 

[CoffeeCat]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by diego:
•Yes, I do realize that this is obviously an ideal choice that few (including myself) will be given•••••<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

 

[VC15]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by CoffeeCat:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by diego:
•Yes, I do realize that this is obviously an ideal choice that few (including myself) will be given•••••<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> •••••Maybe he means "would" be given, in the hypothetical situation that it does happen? If not, and he actually did get both, then I agree with your <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" />

 

[rajneel1]

Scooby- Harvard will not decide on acceptances until later this month. so this is like a hypothetical.

1. Location/Quality of Life- stanford is in a suburb but close to SF. Harvard is right in the city of Boston. so it depends on where you feel comfortable. you may have to live a little farther away from harvard med school to get a cheaper place to live.
2. Curriculum- stanford is totally traditional lecture style but with some discussion, PBL i heard in the second year. this keeps up the flexibility which stanford students seem to really like. you don't have to go to lecutre at stanford cause everything is videotaped. harvard's curriculum is hard to get used to....a tutorial, self directed study style. takes a few months to figure out. also it is mandatory but they get all afternoons off and very little time in the lab (good or bad). if you are the PBL, research stuff from tutorial at home, active learning type then harvard is good for you. their curriculum is not for everybody and they tell you that at the beginning of the interview day. stanford's however, we are all used to because most undergraduate programs are lecture based. students at stanford seem to feel that they have alot of time to do outside activities like get married, have kids, travel, do another degree, take extra time to research and eventually get a PhD, etc. so the tradiional lecture style doesn't seem to hurt anyone's lifestyle and playtime.
3. Cost of living- very expensive at both places. atleast you can live in dorms if you get into either stanford (better dorms) or harvard. with the decline in silicon valley though, you can find some good deals near stanford i heard.
4. Clinical training- i would say clinical training is decent everywhere. one thing about harvard is that boston is very caucasian which was the complaint of my interviewer. but harvard is in the midst of wonderful wonderful hospitals like Beth Israel and Mass General. stanford's medical center is pretty good too and their affiliated hospitals are very diverse.
5. Faculty/Administrative support- both places seem very very supportive. but remember that students at either place are probably very ambitious and will take charge of their own education.
6. Students and student life- students seemed incredibly happy at both places. my guide claimed that harvard was only marginally better than stanford (and UCSF)(he did harvard undergrad) so he picked harvard. so i think they are certainly comparable. very cooperative student bodies at both places. P/F probably helps that. harvard's class is split into societies while stanford's can choose when to take their classes (also 4 or 5 year plan) and can pass out of classes if they want (contributes to happiness i think).
7. Reputation- stanford is like the harvard of the west coast but it can never really be ivy league because it is not on the east coast and it is not as old. both have great reputations though. we all know about harvard but alot of very famous/accomplished people went to stanford also.
8. Residency Matching- both schools match really well. harvard students do fulbrights, howard hughes, etc. stanford students travel aboard, do mounds of research that is institution supported. matchs are very good at both places. i've seen stanford's match list so i will comment on it (mcwmd.com/a/matchlist.htm). stanford gradutes alot of speciality people like anesthiology, opth, radiology, neurosurgery, plastic, urology, otolaryngology. they are kind of known for that and don't even rank on US News in the primary care category. they go to hospitals at UCSF, stanford, harvard, UCLA, Wash U, etc. BUT at either school you could do any type of residency.

i liked them both. i think financial aid at stanford would be better...they are more creative at it. stanford also has a very diverse student body which i didn't get the feel for at harvard (ethically diverse i mean). Harvard has awesome facilities for such an old school. everything is nice and beautiful and historical and wonderful. very up to date and modern. harvard's hospitals are also very close by while stanford's VA and Kaiser are in another city. a short drive but traffic can be killer in the south bay. stanford's campus is very nice and peaceful. very beautiful. harvard's is right in teh middle of town which has it's benefits.

good luck with whatever choice you make. i'm in the same predictament. OH, i don't think you should go to harvard just because of the reputation. but that is your choice.

 

[USeF]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by rajneel1:
•stanford also has a very diverse student body which i didn't get the feel for at harvard (ethically diverse i mean).•••••congrats to both of you for having landed interviews at both of these colossal schools. I got rejected at both, so my question is just being picky :wink:

Did you mean ethnically diverse? Cuz I was under the impression that Harvard is VERY ethnically/culturally (these are similar to me) diverse. Part of the reason a friend that's an MS1 there chose the school, in fact. Now if it's ethically diverse, that would be pretty interesting to discuss, but how would you pick up on the student's ethics in a 1 day interview? Were they picketing Pro-Life and Pro-choice or something?

 

[brandonite]

I'd pick Stanford, but that's only because I'm more of a laid back person, and I've heard that Stanford is much more relaxing. And, c'mon! Boston versus California? No contest, weather wise.

But, that might be partially because Harvard rejected me pre-interview... :wink:

 

[diego]

Thanks for the responses everyone. As an aside, I spoke to the HMS admissions office today and all final decisions will be mailed apparently on Mar. 22

 

[Sir William Osler]

tough choice. the harvard hospitals are better than stanford's hospitals. i dont know how much harvard's name should play a roll, but i would assume that most people choose harvard because of its name over similar schools to stanford. I was looking at some statistics. Last year, only about 15% or so choose stanford over harvard. I think it ranges from about 10%-30% on a yearly basis. Yeah, so how much is that Harvard name worth? good question and i dont know. You are in Boston and you have a very chill curriculum so you have oodles of time to do whatever interests you. and you'll have some damn fine classmates with interesting life experiences. I'm starting to question how much a Harvard med education is worth. But to be honest, I would choose Harvard in the end just based on the fact that Boston is better than Palo Alto (and you're not gonna spend much if any time in SF if you go to Stanford) and the curriculum allows you to pursue anything that you like. Also, Harvard matches better. Depends on your criteria though in the end.

 

[lilycat]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
• But to be honest, I would choose Harvard in the end just based on the fact that Boston is better than Palo Alto (and you're not gonna spend much if any time in SF if you go to Stanford) and the curriculum allows you to pursue anything that you like. Also, Harvard matches better. Depends on your criteria though in the end.•••••I agree -- Boston is better than Palo Alto. However, I'm willing to bet that a huge number of Stanford students would object to your statement about not spending time in San Francisco. I know of a couple of Stanford med students who actually lived in San Francisco during basic sciences, and several others who had boyfriends or girlfriends in San Francisco, so basically ended up "living" there at least half of each week. Considering that the flexible Stanford curriculum gives students the freedom to surf, ski or snowboard on a regular basis (nearest beach is about a 45-min. drive 1-way, and ski resorts are about 3-4 hours away), you will definitely be able to spend a lot of time in San Francisco if you so desire, to escape from Palo Alto from time to time.

As for your original points:

1) Location/quality of life -- Palo Alto is not a city -- rather it is a very bustling suburb within easy driving distance to San Francisco. However, if you're into outdoors stuff, there are tons of nice running, biking, and riding trails throughout the foothills surrounding Stanford. Plus, the California weather is wonderful -- getting a suntan in February while people are in snowstorms on the East coast can be very nice. On the other hand, Boston is a great city, along with New England winters.

2. Curriculum -- do you like more traditional or PBL? Even though Stanford is lecture-based, the 5-year plan obviously allows for a ton of flexibility within that curriculum. I would definitely give the possibility of the 5-year plan some thought, and see if that appeals to you.

3. Cost of living -- pretty even between the two places.

4. Clinical training -- Harvard probably has the edge, but it depends on how much responsibility they actually give the students. I've heard varying things about this at the Harvard hospitals.

5. Faculty/administrative support -- again, probably pretty even between the two schools

6. Students and student life -- it's a personal call, but I think that Stanford's 5-year plan allows for a little more diversity of interests in their students compared to most other schools, Harvard included. If you have strong interests outside of medicine, whether in other areas of study (maybe you want to get an MA while you're in school), or with hobbies or sports, Stanford really gives you the opportunity to pursue those interests. Students at both schools seem pleased, but maybe for slightly different reasons.

7. Reputation -- this is silly. Harvard will always be Harvard. But does that mean people will in some way look down on you for going to Stanford? No.

8. Residency Matching -- ask the schools for copies of their matchlists the last couple of years and decide for yourself. From what I've seen and heard, both schools match very well, so I don't think you're going to have significantly different opportunities coming from one school or the other. The only caveat to this would be to keep in mind that for most academic programs, there is a significant amount of inbreeding -- if you have your heart set on doing a residency at Mass General, you will have a better shot at it coming from Harvard. If you have your heart set on a residency in California (Stanford, UCSF, UCLA), you may have a slightly better shot coming from Stanford.

Stanford definitely tends to emphasize specialty medicine and the role of the physician-scientist over primary care. The Dean of the Med School spoke about this last year.

 

[choker]

i interviewed at both (i know- wtf?!?!?!) anyway, i would have to say that the two schools are completely different. stanford is much more laidback, more lecture-based curriculum (35-40hrs/week) and very research-oriented.

a big difference is that harvard is an urban campus while stanford isn't. everyone lives right next to the harvard campus (most 1st/2nd years live in a dorm) and NO ONE has a car. stanford, on the other hand, all grad students living on campus live together, and most people just opt to live off campus, and you cant survive without a car.

stanford has an undergrad campus right there; harvard's is 30minutes away up in cambridge.

i preferred everything about harvard over stanford, BUT i really liked stanford's chill-factor and far superior weather.

stanford also offers 20K to anyone qualifying for 1$ of financial aid (WOW).

w/o that last point, i would pick harvard in a heartbeat; however, the 20k/year is VERY tempting.

i was waitlisted at stanford, so i've pretty much given up on going there. if harvard pulls through though... <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" />
oh what a poetic end that would be to this miserable and traumatic experience.

in the meantime, it looks like it's gonna be pitt for me. (mental image of tom cruise in risky business telling rebecca demornay that he's going to university of illinois at his princeton interview).

 

[Sir William Osler]

Lilycat makes some good points. But, I would like to add that Harvard also has a form of the 5 year plan. Many students take a year off to do research, or work on projects abroad (fulbrights, etc).

I would also like to presume that the people Lilycat mentions who live in SF are not the norm. I could be wrong on this. But it does prove that there is ample time to visit the city. I go to an undergrad IN a city, and I can confidently say that the experience is quite different than 1 hr away from my city. Although the latter can surely visit and go out from time to time, living in a big city is just a unique experience. But nonetheless, it is not for everyone.

For me, the major strengths of Stanford are the weather, the emphasis on academic medicine, the undergrad campus nearby (very beautiful), and the financial aid.

For me, the weaknesses of Stanford aren't really weaknesses but less of strengths are the clinical experiences and patient population base, the "suburban" campus, a feeling that it's too laidback (could be an advantage for most), and just a general sense that it's a fallback school for those who didn't get into UCSF/Harvard's of the world.

anyways, that's my second 2 cents.

 

[rajneel1]

i'm sorry...i meant ethnically. from what i saw at my interview...alot of caucasians. but i'm sure they have lots of diversity with interesting backgrounds at both schools.
about the patient population base- i asked someone at stanford specailly about that and they claimed that their patients are very very diverse. socioeconomically and ethnically. my interviewer at harvard did say boston is very caucasian. not sure what that means though.

 

[bomback]

I'd pick Harvard. If I wanted to go to a california school, I would pick either UCLA, UCSF, or UCSD.

 

[A. Caveman]

i agree with Scooby...that was a HELL of a first post! holy lord, how do you go all these months reading these posts without having the desire to contribute...especially, especially, if you're interviewing at THOSE schools. have you been eavesdropping dude?? not cool. now that you're a member i DEMAND that you contribute as you read!!

if i had the choice to make (which i wouldn't untill march 22 anyway), i might go with boston, harvard. but damn it all if stanford doesn't have better weather with more laid back students, a more laid back curriculum, better money situation, and perhaps a better possibility of landing a subspecialty (since lots of harvardites seem to do primary care). interesting choice..let's see how it pans out. either way, you're sitting real pretty with stanford for all the reasons everyone's given. gluck.

 

[Scooby Doo]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by bomback:
•If I wanted to go to a california school, I would pick either UCLA, UCSF, or UCSD.•••••Why would you choose UCSD over Stanford? The cost comes out to be VERY similar after stanford slashes 20K off it's tuition. Stanford I feel is a much more laid back and better school. Of course what I say is all hearsay b/c I did not get ANY FRIGGIN love from Cali schools...BS i tell you...BS!

 

[lilycat]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
•
For me, the weaknesses of Stanford aren't really weaknesses but less of strengths are the clinical experiences and patient population base, the "suburban" campus, a feeling that it's too laidback (could be an advantage for most), and just a general sense that it's a fallback school for those who didn't get into UCSF/Harvard's of the world.
•••••Sir William Osler -- I'm not too familiar with your posts, but I'm sorry -- this last statement of yours is one of the weakest I've ever read on SDN . Trust me, very few of the students at Stanford consider it a "fallback" because they didn't get into UCSF or Harvard, and to presume that's the case is idiotic at best. I know A LOT of people who chose Stanford over UCSF; conversely, I know A LOT of people who chose UCSF over Stanford -- in both cases, students actually had the choice to make. Likewise, I know students at Stanford who chose that school over Harvard, over JHU, over Duke, etc. -- are you getting my picture? There's a reason there are so many good schools out there, and that they don't all have the same curriculum, aren't all located in the same setting, etc. -- not everyone wants the same thing out of a med school.

As for clinical experience and patient population, it's actually surprisingly diverse (my observation from going to school there for 4 years and working in the hospital for 2 years). Students train at Stanford Hospital, Packard Children's Hospital, Palo Alto VA (about a 5-min. drive from campus on surface streets), Santa Clara Valley Med Ctr, Kaiser, and possibly a few other locations. Even at the private hospitals, there is a huge Hispanic, African American, and Asian patient base (a working use of Spanish is EXTREMELY helpful). Many patients are on some form of Medicare/Medicaid or state insurance (like for Peds).

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
• I would also like to presume that the people Lilycat mentions who live in SF are not the norm. I could be wrong on this. But it does prove that there is ample time to visit the city. I go to an undergrad IN a city, and I can confidently say that the experience is quite different than 1 hr away from my city. Although the latter can surely visit and go out from time to time, living in a big city is just a unique experience. But nonetheless, it is not for everyone.
••••• I never claimed that going to Stanford was equivalent to living in a big city, or having that experience. However, I found your previous statement about never spending in time in San Francisco, if you went to Stanford, a gross misrepresentation. I'm not sure how to define "norm." San Francisco is a 30-min drive w/out traffic; 45-min drive w/traffic. Depending on your interests and motivation, you can spend as much or as little time there as you want.

Driving to San Francisco on weekends or weeknights is not the same as living in the middle of a busy city -- if you crave that experience, or are generally a city person, you probably will not be happy at Stanford. However, if you like more of a balance (being able to get away from the bustle of city life, easy access to outdoor activities, etc.), I cannot think of a more ideally-situated campus than Stanford. I lived there for 6 years and did my fair share of bitching about Palo Alto, but I also really appreciate having spent that time there. I'm not a huge city person, so for me it was the perfect location. But, it's not perfect for everyone.

Regarding the 5-year plan -- as SWO pointed out, Harvard may have some variation on this; most schools do, meaning that most schools offer you some flexibility to take a year off to pursue research projects or study abroad. However, most schools do not allow you take an extra year to decelerate your basic sciences to have more time to be a semi-pro surfer, TA or work full-time, get an MA in creative writing, etc. Again, this kind of flexibility is not for everyone. But if you have a lot of interests outside of medicine, and don't want to make medical school and the study of medicine the all-consuming goal of your life, Stanford encourages you to pursue those outside interests with the 5-year plan.

Diego -- essentially you're splitting hairs as to which school is "better." Go with where you feel more comfortable.

 

[Sir William Osler]

Lilycat once again brings up good points. I need to clarify that in no way am I trying to poke at
Stanford. It is true that I am picking on small differences because both of these schools will provide a great education (as do most medical schools of if not all). In no way I am trying to say that Stanford is a back-up school in the general sense.

I guess I should explain alittle more about how I have gathered my opinions. During my interview there, many students with whom I was in contact noted that they had other top choices (Penn, UCSF, etc). I didn't really feel that way at many other top progrmas, but maybe that is just a factor of whom I met on the interview day. Also, I have taken the time to quickly look over the data from AMCAS on Stanford admissions. From the Stanford website for the year 2000-1 admissions, students who got into both Stanford and the following schools chose Stanford : Harvard (18% chose Stanford), UCSF (33% chose Stanford), JHU (38% chose Stanford), Yale (82% chose Stanford), WAshU (82% chose Stanford). This is the typical trend for Stanford admissions with some fluctuation year on year. And for students who got into UCSF, Stanford, and Harvard; only 16% chose Stanford.

Am I saying that Stanford is a "back-up" school? Yes and no. Yes in that the majority of students who gain acceptances to UCSF, JHU, and Harvard choose against Stanford. No in that Stanford is not a very high quality institution. The data is the data and it is the most objective way to gauge "back-up" schools. I tend to agree that this term has a strong negative connotation. Of course, i'm really picking at the small details.

Now, about the location. There is nothing wrong with Palo Alto, obviously. But, this is the Bay Area and we all know how traffic can be. For example, while I stayed at Berkeley during my interview, it took almost an hour to drive about 10 or so miles ( i estimate) due to horrible traffic at around 9PM on a sunday (not what I would consider peak traffic). Also, if you're not from the Bay Area and do not have friends in SF, it would be difficult to spend alot of time there.

Definitely agree with the statement "not everyone wants the same thing out of a med school." Many people value location vis-a-vis distance from family and friends and also the beautiful weather of california. Many people also get great financial aid packages. But, I would say that if you're purely looking for a medical education subtracting these variables, you will find that most chose Harvard. I am confident that the clinical education (although close in comparison) is better at Harvard. I would say that the quality of life is equal at both since Harvard's curriculum is arguably the most laidback of any place in the country (New Pathway).

I think that what I have written is more or less how I, personally, have evaluated the opportunity to study at Stanford versus other schools. For each person, it will be different. This is just my opinion and not in any way an attempt to "prove" that Stanford is inferior. Because it is a great school. For me, I will be going elsewhere for some of the aforementioned reasons. Also, lilycat is a tad bit biased since she was an undergrad at "The Farm." .

 

[vyc]

there is REALLY bad traffic in Boston too.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Are they still doing the "Big Dig" in Boston. For those who don't know, this is project to have highways running under the city. I would think that this will be very dangerous after September 11th. What is going to stop someone in a van from driving under the tallest buildings in Boston and creating another trajedy?

 

[lilycat]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
•Also, lilycat is a tad bit biased since she was an undergrad at "The Farm." .•••••I'm glad that you chose to assume that I'm biased since I'm an alum. For what it's worth, I critique Stanford just as often as I defend it. Like any school, it has it's good and bad points. Please don't assume that alumnus status equates to rosy-colored tunnel vision glasses.

As for the matriculation statistics, they only tell part of the story. I would venture to say that the majority of Stanford undergrads I know who were choosing between UCSF & Stanford went with UCSF primarily because they wanted a change of pace. SWO chooses to view the statistics as proof that Stanford is a "back-up;" since I have friends who made these decisions and know some of the background of those decisions, I don't think it's quite that black and white. Does it matter -- no, and I'm actually surprised at myself for getting into such a mind-numbingly tedious debate.

 

[brandonite]

Even though I've never been there, I'd love Stanford, and like I said before, I would choose it over Harvard in a heartbeat.

I love the location, I love the laid back attitude, I love the research going on there, I love the fact that the med school is attached to the undergrad campus, and I love the five year plan.

Choosing a med school is about way more than rankings. Stanford is behind Harvard there, no doubt about it. I don't think that the quality of education suffers at all because of that difference. You can go on to any residency of your choice after attending either school. To me, at least, med school is about far more than the dollar value of the NIH grants the faculty has recieved! I think certain people would thrive at Stanford, and perhaps not Harvard, and vice versa. I think there is no discernible difference in quality of education at any of the schools in the top 10.

But, I'm probably only one of a few people here who would think this, so...

 

[Scooby Doo]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
•
For example, while I stayed at Berkeley during my interview, it took almost an hour to drive about 10 or so miles ( i estimate) due to horrible traffic at around 9PM on a sunday (not what I would consider peak traffic). •••••Is that ever the case! I definitely will back up SWO on that point

 

[Sir William Osler]

I never said that the stats tell "all of the story." In fact and I quote:

"Definitely agree with the statement "not everyone wants the same thing out of a med school." Many people value location vis-a-vis distance from family and friends and also the beautiful weather of california. Many people also get great financial aid packages."

what I shoudl have clearly stated is that this effect will be negated by those whom have the same connections to Harvard and Boston, so it's a moot point.

 

[brandonite]

Hmm. I had another post, but I guess it didn't go through.

I don't think those percentages of students that attend either Stanford or Harvard indicate anything about Stanford being a backup, at least not educationally. Stanford is widely preferred over WashU, and WashU has been ranked significantly higher than Stanford for as long as I am aware. All that those stats demonstrate is that students tend to prefer Harvard/UCSF over Stanford, but I think the major reason behind that would be lifestyle or repuation choices, rather than educational choices. If education alone were the deciding factor, then we would expect students to prefer WashU to Stanford, because of its higher ranking. Instead, the opposite is true.

I still would choose Stanford over Harvard in a heartbeat.

 

[rajneel1]

i am definitely choosing stanford over hopkins and probably over harvard. i am not the big city type of person and would be annoyed. i absolutely hated UCSF when i interviewed...i should probably pull my application. before i applied, i really wanted to go to ucsf and never thought i would have a chance at stanford. UCSF is having some growing pains and seemed intense. my tour guides had more negative things to say about it then positive which was very very strange.
my doc sister told me that if you want a chill lifestyle...then stanford is probably the place to go over UCSF (probably a difference of private vs. public schools). i also felt that stanford is more on the national/international level than UCSF. UCSF takes most of it's students from the UCs (i think i would tire of that being from a UC myself) but i think stanford students are more the national type. correct me if i'm wrong.
Scooby- it's okay about the CA schools, i didn't get much love either. damn socal schools!

 

[vyc]

are they still doing the big dig?!?!?
god yes. i don't think that will end any time soon.
boston traffic is a bitch. it's worse than anything on the west coast.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Whisker Barrel Cortex:
•Are they still doing the "Big Dig" in Boston. For those who don't know, this is project to have highways running under the city. I would think that this will be very dangerous after September 11th. What is going to stop someone in a van from driving under the tallest buildings in Boston and creating another trajedy?•••••

 

[Incendiary]

LA is still traffic nightmare king. DC area runs a close second.

Boston driving is fun. You never really know where you're going until you get there. And even then things are still confusing...

 

[Vader]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by rajneel1:
[QB]i absolutely hated UCSF when i interviewed...i should probably pull my application. UCSF is having some growing pains and seemed intense. my tour guides had more negative things to say about it then positive which was very very strange.
my doc sister told me that if you want a chill lifestyle...then stanford is probably the place to go over UCSF (probably a difference of private vs. public schools). i also felt that stanford is more on the national/international level than UCSF. UCSF takes most of it's students from the UCs (i think i would tire of that being from a UC myself) but i think stanford students are more the national type. [QB]••••It's fine that you want to go to Stanford, but quit knocking UCSF, especially on a Stanford vs. Harvard thread. What's your problem?

Some corrections:

1) There are "growing pains" with any big new change. The new curriculum has been excellent overall. The largest problems so far have been administrative ones--room changes, scheduling, etc. Nothing to do with the quality of education. The professors are excellent and the integration of the basic and clinical sciences is superb. The minor bugs that are inevitable in the first year of anything will be worked out by next year, based on our feedback.

2) I have no idea as to why you thought UCSF was "intense" and I don't know who were your tour guides. We are on P/F, we help each other out on typing up notes, studying, preparing for exams, etc, and we have abundant parties, outings, and trips.

3) Stanford MORE on the national/international level than UCSF? In terms of what... name recognition by the lay public? Clinical departments/medical care? Scientific advancements? Student base? UCSF is a world-recognized leader in patient care, medical education, clinical research, and scientific investigation. Many of the top people in their respective fields are at UCSF. In terms of student body, it is true that about 80% of UCSF medical students are California residents, but about 70% of my class attended non-UC universities for college (including places like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, etc). The bottom line is that UCSF and Stanford are highly-recognized institutions that draw from a nation-wide (and international) pool of applicants.

By the way, Stanford students are really cool... we had a UCSF-Stanford medical student mixer at someone's apartment in SF. There is really no one I met from either place who is unhappy about his/her decision.

 

[rajneel1]

ohhhhhh lord! i apologize vader. we shouldn't knock anyone's school. it was just not for me. and i forgot that you are public relations official for UCSF. I was just surprised at my interview.

 

[Southernplayalisticadillacmusic]

My .02$

The only (and HUGE) downside of HMS is its lack of diversity. Oh, yes, the student body is diverse, but the opinions and mindset tend to merge towards a common point. I have also struggled with the lack of diversity of Boston in general. The segregation and cliqueishness of the Boston is sad (i.e. West Africans v. East Africans v. Carribeans v. African Americans v. etc, etc). What continues to amaze me is the way in which my classmates would move from HMS into segregated surroundings (coolidge corner) or occasionally into JP (while bragging about living in the "ghetto") yet speak about the great diversity of their surroundings.

Still HMS is awesome, but your experience may be literally "colored" by your race.

P.S. I am not saying the place is racist, It just has a way of isolating.

 

[kafshar]

Harvard and Johns Hopkins are in a different league than the rest of med schools. If are interested in academic medicine.... go to Harvard and your career will florish. If you dont want to go into academic medicine... pick the school that you like based on the "other stuff".

 

[Original]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by me:
•Harvard and Johns Hopkins are in a different league than the rest of med schools. If are interested in academic medicine.... go to Harvard and your career will florish. If you dont want to go into academic medicine... pick the school that you like based on the "other stuff".•••••Not true! If it was true, I guess you could also just say Harvard is in a league of its own, different from every other med school out there. U.S News & World report would be proud of themselves . It depends on several factors including what level of academic medicine one is interested in. I'll choose Duke over Harvard for several reasons. 'nuff said.

 

[Sir William Osler]

To Original:

I'm curious about some of the reasons you'll be choosing Duke over Harvard MSTP.

 

[Original]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
•To Original:
I'm curious about some of the reasons you'll be choosing Duke over Harvard MSTP.•••••Osler,

I didn't get into Harvard period. I wish! It was a hypothetical. But then if I do get into Harvard, it will not be MSTP since they do not accept international students. I interviewed there for the HST. An intense program ! Wheeeew! really intense!!! I can cope with the intensity, but the thing is despite the intensity, they don't get time to do significant research. They spend lots of time TAing, clinicals, CLASSTIME (at least 9hrs everyday!)--crazy! I think my main concern was that despite the highly bragged about diversity of HMS, there is little of this diversity in the HST. Very few women even. I love the ladies and have to have them around somewhere <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" /> . There was NO african american (or black person period) in last year's class. And last year's class' only version of a "hispanic" person is a 2nd generation american whose parents migrated from PORTUGAL <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> c'mon people

 

[rajneel1]

wow! i didn't realize that all of the world's academic physicians graduated from either Harvard or Hopkins. I guess hard work and passion don't matter as long as you go to harvard or hopkins. silly me!

 

[vyc]

wow what a difference in opinion!
boston driving is NOT fun, it is dangerous and stressful.
LA has bad traffic but at least we have good roads and a grid layout. Boston doesn't.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Incendiary:
•LA is still traffic nightmare king. DC area runs a close second.

Boston driving is fun. You never really know where you're going until you get there. And even then things are still confusing...•••••

 

[Southernplayalisticadillacmusic]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by vyc:
•wow what a difference in opinion!
boston driving is NOT fun, it is dangerous and stressful.
LA has bad traffic but at least we have good roads and a grid layout. Boston doesn't.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Incendiary:
•LA is still traffic nightmare king. DC area runs a close second.

Boston driving is fun. You never really know where you're going until you get there. And even then things are still confusing...••••••••••Yeah, driving in Boston is for daredevils. An adventure at first, but definitely stressful in the end.

 

[jmejia1]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Original:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Sir William Osler:
•To Original:
I'm curious about some of the reasons you'll be choosing Duke over Harvard MSTP.•••••Osler,

I I love the ladies and have to have them around somewhere <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" /> . There was NO african american (or black person period) in last year's class. And last year's class' only version of a "hispanic" person is a 2nd generation american whose parents migrated from PORTUGAL <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> c'mon people •••••Funny Original! Reminds me of another school where I interviewed. The "underrepresented minority" that interviewed me was 1/4 Purto Rican and 3/4 Chinese. I know because he told me. Some schools get pretty creative when making it seem that they're very diverse ethnically.

While interviewing at Stanford, I saw lots of ethnic diversity. I actually met a few of them personally and they're the real thing.

About Harvard, maybe they're one of those creative schools, because on paper it seems like they're pretty ethnically diverse.

 

[Original]

Harvard's New Pathway program is one of the most diverse med schools in the country; neck 'n neck with Duke, Stanford and a few others. This program however is completely different from the Harvard-MIT Health Science and Technology program. Same med school, same Harvard MD degree, but other than that, they might as well be located on different planets. They take completely different classes from each other. Academically speaking I guess one can say HST is the ****. But I found that the students didn't have much say in the way things were run. If they did, I got the impression that they would unanimously opt for less classtime and more integration with the New-pathway program. HST is f'ing brutal.

As far as diversity goes, HST has got to be one of the least diverse programs in the country. Where the ladies at? where did all the black people go? <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> I don't really have a problem with that; but I'm big on diversity. It will also be tough hanging out with a bunch of dudes (no gir1s) everyday in class 10 hrs/day for 5 yrs. For what?

 

[Cdc28p]

Bump.

Any more thoughts on these two schools?

 

[INeedAdvice]

Come on!! It's HARVARD! You can't pass that up! :wink:

 

[praying4MD]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by choker:
•mental image of tom cruise in risky business telling rebecca demornay that he's going to university of illinois at his princeton interview. •••••I didn't even read half this thread, but I just wanted to thank you for such a wonderful mental image... I needed that today. <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" /> Who doesn't need a Tommy image in their day, everyday?!

For those of you familiar with my obsession with Tommy, yes, he's still hot, as is our ongoing affair.

 

[Random Access]

*bump* for the l33t people.

 

[NYGirl12]

can someone post harvard's match list? a link perhaps? thanks!