Starting a Pre-Organic Chemistry Club?

[Hobakie]

So I've been talking to my PIs about my struggles with organic chemistry and how I wish there was a class or club that at least got my feet wet before I took orgo. The information was so new to me that it took well over a semester to adjust and get used to the language and the skills required to do well in the class. That's when they suggested that I do just that and start some type of organization or club on campus to get the students' feet wet before the first and second semester of orgo or even during it.

I'm pretty sure that I could enlist the help of faculty, Ta's, science fraternities, as well as the heads of our chemistry department ,but I would like some opinions on whether or not this would seem helpful and if so what kinds of introductory topics should be introduced, I do not want to make another orgo class but something where once they do get to orgo it isn't as foreign a language as it was for me. What was the hardest part for you first coming into orgo?

I dont plan on doing any of this soon since I want a complete game plan before I present it

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[Cawolf]

The university where I attended my post-bac program had an "Undergraduate Chemistry Club". These were students who offered free group tutoring with the pre-med chemistry courses. They were well-established, but I believe they held meetings weekly during the summer so students could come in to prepare for Organic. I think it sounds like a great idea if nothing similar exists on your campus. You can help students, be part of a club, and speak about your help sessions as community service.

When I tutor organic, I find that most students have trouble with the common topics in the first few weeks of class. This is Lewis structures, VSPER theory, hybrid orbitals, FMO, and arrow pushing. I find that building a strong foundation in these topics sets students up for success throughout the course.

 

[Alejandro]

Or just read david klein's ochem as a 2nd language. and then ochem is easy.

 

[Hobakie]

Or just read david klein's ochem as a 2nd language. and then ochem is easy.

Whats easy for one person isn't neccessarily easy for another. I can ace any bio class without even studying but chemistry takes work and effort. Also if it was that easy why do kids struggle with ochem every year knowing all of these resources are available?

 

[Hospitalized]

Whats easy for one person isn't neccessarily easy for another. I can ace any bio class without even studying but chemistry takes work and effort. Also if it was that easy why do kids struggle with ochem every year knowing all of these resources are available?

Really? No studying? Ace? C'mon.

All things aside, organic is just another class. Quit hyping it up to be some monster. It doesn't require a club, general chemistry is a pre-organic club. You are building a foundation for the material. Will organic take more studying then other classes? Maybe. But if you put the work in, are proactive with your learning, and study smart, you will do well. I'll tell you that I've studied a heck of a lot more for my biochemistry class. In some capacity, I actually found organic easier than general chemistry.

 

[Alejandro]

Whats easy for one person isn't neccessarily easy for another. I can ace any bio class without even studying but chemistry takes work and effort. Also if it was that easy why do kids struggle with ochem every year knowing all of these resources are available?

As in response to your point, actually at my undergrad nobody knew of ochem as a 2nd language. everyone believed that they needed to read all of carey's ochem to be a master of it. riiiight.

Because having a club as such...you might as well just call it a study group. But that being said, if you want to help people, then help people without trying to 'make a club' for it. And if you want ot be recognized, or you think you're that good with it, then why not just try to get a job as a tutor, either private or public (on campus)? I'm just saying if you are that passionate about it, become a tutor. Making a study group results in almost a futile effort to start a group but at the same time making it look like a study hall instead.

Also, do recognize that not everyone is going to be down to study ahead of time. some are, but many won't.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't create a club, but just a free undergrad tutoring drop-in service if your school doesn't already have one already. If they do, then why not just do that? It seems pretty similar (other than people doing things ahead of time instead of tutoring at time of need)...

 

[ZX10R]

When are people going to have time for this? Most freshmen are struggling with chem + Lab, Biology + Lab, being away from home, 8 other credit hour classes, and the change in difficulty from high school. Are you going to be having it over the summer? In the summer following medical school matriculation Med students highly advise against pre-studying because it really doesn't help. IMO it's better just to have FREE tutors 5 days a week for current Ochem students. That's how my school did it and it worked okay; but OChem has a steep learning curve and people quickly divided into those that cannot be helped and those that accelerated and didn't need the tutoring anymore.

 

[Mavs88]

My school has a 2-3 week course called Prepatory Organic chemistry that the students take in early August right before the semester starts for Ochem I.

 

[Hobakie]

Really? No studying? Ace? C'mon.

All things aside, organic is just another class. Quit hyping it up to be some monster. It doesn't require a club, general chemistry is a pre-organic club. You are building a foundation for the material. Will organic take more studying then other classes? Maybe. But if you put the work in, are proactive with your learning, and study smart, you will do well. I'll tell you that I've studied a heck of a lot more for my biochemistry class. In some capacity, I actually found organic easier than general chemistry.

Yes Ace. Exactly Like I typed. I'm not hyping it up but giving my opinion as a student who has taken and struggled with organic chemistry, that being said all I asked was everyone's opinion on whether or not this seemed like a useful idea, what I didn't ask was for someone to basically tell me that I should just shutup sit down and study smarter. These classes/clubs would be like a preparatory thing. I didn't ask for study tips.

That being said the second half of your reply is somewhat useful

I dont think Gen Chem prepares you for orgo. What you learn in high school chemistry is about as much as you will need for orgo otherwise its its own subject. I do think that orgo prepares you for biochem.

As in response to your point, actually at my undergrad nobody knew of ochem as a 2nd language. everyone believed that they needed to read all of carey's ochem to be a master of it. riiiight.

Because having a club as such...you might as well just call it a study group. But that being said, if you want to help people, then help people without trying to 'make a club' for it. And if you want ot be recognized, or you think you're that good with it, then why not just try to get a job as a tutor, either private or public (on campus)? I'm just saying if you are that passionate about it, become a tutor. Making a study group results in almost a futile effort to start a group but at the same time making it look like a study hall instead.

Also, do recognize that not everyone is going to be down to study ahead of time. some are, but many won't.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't create a club, but just a free undergrad tutoring drop-in service if your school doesn't already have one already. If they do, then why not just do that? It seems pretty similar (other than people doing things ahead of time instead of tutoring at time of need)...

I wouldn't be doing the teaching. Instead it would be past orgo TAs/tutors. Our tutoring services are around 20 bucks an hour and are not widely used. Other than this we do not have a real preparatory type of class/tutoring session. Like I mentioned before this wouldn't be an orgo study group. It would be somewhat of a short preparatory thing. My whole reason was that orgo was completely new information. so I wanted something where the information/language can be presented so that when orgo starts and they are learning you aren't spending half of your time trying to figure out how to name something when you need to be focusing on reactions if that makes sense.

 

[Hobakie]

My school has a 2-3 week course called Prepatory Organic chemistry that the students take in early August right before the semester starts for Ochem I.

Which topics did they cover? Have you taken it before?

 

[Mavs88]

Which topics did they cover? Have you taken it before?

I did not personally take it, but here's a course description. It's a one hour course and online and called "Organic Chemistry Bridge course"

"Review of general chemistry concepts most relevant to organic chemistry and introduction to organic nomenclature and simple organic chemistry concepts. Offered online only."

 

[Hobakie]

When are people going to have time for this? Most freshmen are struggling with chem + Lab, Biology + Lab, being away from home, 8 other credit hour classes, and the change in difficulty from high school. Are you going to be having it over the summer? In the summer following medical school matriculation Med students highly advise against pre-studying because it really doesn't help. IMO it's better just to have FREE tutors 5 days a week for current Ochem students. That's how my school did it and it worked okay; but OChem has a steep learning curve and people quickly divided into those that cannot be helped and those that accelerated and didn't need the tutoring anymore.

All of that hasn't been figured out yet ,but it would be just like with any other thing for pre-med students. you make time for what you can make time for. Although what you said is certainly true I don't see how this is any different than a freshman doing research, working, volunteering, or being in other clubs. You still have to do all these things under those circumstances you just listed.

 

[altblue]

Coming up with a game plan is a good idea, but only that. Club isn't needed for a number of reasons, though I'd recommend finding some similarly motivated people to study with.

The stuff you'd need to know for orgo is so basic that doing well in a high school chem class should be more than enough to prepare you. You can probably look up anything you would need a refresher on...

It's a matter of using resources effectively. What could you do better this time? Did you have problems understanding lecture, applying the material, putting the time in, etc.? Seek out Second Language if you have to, use tutoring as a means of understanding the process of solving a problem, and go to office hours!

Don't try to pre-study though. Sure, you could do things like naming, memorizing pKa values etc. but this sort of material is relatively easy to learn compared to more time-consuming material, and it's not worth your time to pre-study for (relax!)..

 

[Hobakie]

Thanks this is something similar to what I am aiming for. Have you heard any opinions on it then?

 

[Hobakie]

Coming up with a game plan is a good idea, but only that. Club isn't needed for a number of reasons, though I'd recommend finding some similarly motivated people to study with.

The stuff you'd need to know for orgo is so basic that doing well in a high school chem class should be more than enough to succeed. You can probably look up anything you would need a refresher on...

It's a matter of using resources effectively. What could you do better this time? Did you have problems understanding lecture, applying the material, putting the time in, etc.? Seek out Second Language if you have to, use tutoring as a means of understanding the process of solving a problem, and go to office hours!

Don't try to pre-study though. Sure, you could do things like naming, memorizing pKa values etc. but this stuff is so easy that it's not worth your time to pre-study for (relax!)..

ive already taken orgo..........

 

[altblue]

ive already taken orgo..........

True that, I just edited my post to reflect that.

 

[Neutropix]

Really? No studying? Ace? C'mon.

All things aside, organic is just another class. Quit hyping it up to be some monster. It doesn't require a club, general chemistry is a pre-organic club. You are building a foundation for the material. Will organic take more studying then other classes? Maybe. But if you put the work in, are proactive with your learning, and study smart, you will do well. I'll tell you that I've studied a heck of a lot more for my biochemistry class. In some capacity, I actually found organic easier than general chemistry.

Preach it SAHN

 

[cloudmurder1]

Or just read david klein's ochem as a 2nd language. and then ochem is easy.

I owe my A in orgo 1 heavily to this book

 

[deleted577188]

The university where I attended my post-bac program had an "Undergraduate Chemistry Club". These were students who offered free group tutoring with the pre-med chemistry courses. They were well-established, but I believe they held meetings weekly during the summer so students could come in to prepare for Organic. I think it sounds like a great idea if nothing similar exists on your campus. You can help students, be part of a club, and speak about your help sessions as community service.

When I tutor organic, I find that most students have trouble with the common topics in the first few weeks of class. This is Lewis structures, VSPER theory, hybrid orbitals, FMO, and arrow pushing. I find that building a strong foundation in these topics sets students up for success throughout the course.

VSEPR theory. Otherwise, you hit it right on. Most people who are lost after this are lost forever, or it takes them a while to appreciate it.

 

[z_maverica]

Premed club sounds dumb.