Starting salary out of residency

[Midwestern Blot]

200k base guaranteed for 2 years for outpatient only...not sure what to think about it. Is that about to be expected in a metropolitan area?

Also, would you accept an offer that doesn’t offer loan repayment options/assistance?

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[deleted87716]

200k base guaranteed for 2 years for outpatient only...not sure what to think about it. Is that about to be expected in a metropolitan area?

Also, would you accept an offer that doesn’t offer loan repayment options/assistance?

Pretty standard, actually. You should be more interested in what the potential upside is once you're off guarantee. You're not going to find too many jobs in metropolitan areas offering loan repayment. They don't have to.

 

[deleted480308]

Learn to think like a boss. An employees cost to them is just how many dollars they spend to get the employee to show up

Given that, loan forgiveness might not be the best for you because it goes away with your loans. I’d be just as interested in the backside of the starting salary offer...

 

[cabinbuilder]

Only had 2 jobs that offered loan forgiveness. However, that aspect was determinate on state funding, applying, etc etc etc ----never saw a dime. Don't expect that. My first job out of residency was 180K (2009)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

200k base guaranteed for 2 years for outpatient only...not sure what to think about it. Is that about to be expected in a metropolitan area?

Also, would you accept an offer that doesn’t offer loan repayment options/assistance?

Keep in mind, you can always ask for more. If you want loan assistance, ask for it. At my current job I asked for a bigger signing bonus. Got 2.5X more pretty easily.

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

Pretty standard, actually. You should be more interested in what the potential upside is once you're off guarantee. You're not going to find too many jobs in metropolitan areas offering loan repayment. They don't have to.

Echo what BD says. Earning potential is everything. Epic sucktitude occurs when after your 2 yr guarantee expires and your $200k/yr turns in to $130k/yr and you're 2 years in on a 4 year contract.

 

[W19]

How will OP pay his/her student loan assuming it's 350k+?

OP will be left with ~ 115k post taxes, 401k, health insurance. Assuming 4k/month goes for student loan, that 48k/yr... Therefore, OP is left with 57k. Is that enough money to live in a major city? I know it's enough, but a physician should have more that to pay his/her living expenses... Now I can see why people are going into EM?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

How will OP pay his/her student loan assuming it's 350k+?

OP will be left with ~ 115k post taxes, 401k, health insurance. Assuming 4k/month for student loan, that 48k/yr... Therefore, OP is left with 57k. Is that enough money to live in a major city? I know it's enough, but a physician should have more that to pay his/her bills... Now I can see why people are going into EM?

Meh, that's still just shy of 5k/month post tax. Even if we assume a 2k mortgage (which is roughly a 400k house) you're left with 3k post tax. That's a fair amount of money.

That said, plenty of med students don't have that much in loans (average for a 2016 graduate was right at 200k).

Plus, most of us full time FMs earn more than our guarantee after 1-2 years. I've been at my current job for 1 month. If the rate of growth continues at the current rate (and keep in mind during summer numbers are always lower), I'll be out-earning my salary guarantee by month 9-10. I see the RVU numbers for the whole system every 2 weeks. The only people not on track to break 250k/year are the part timers.

Or you can moonlight slightly and that can help cover your loan debt until your full time job really ramps up.

 

[W19]

Meh, that's still just shy of 5k/month post tax. Even if we assume a 2k mortgage (which is roughly a 400k house) you're left with 3k post tax. That's a fair amount of money.

That said, plenty of med students don't have that much in loans (average for a 2016 graduate was right at 200k).

Plus, most of us full time FMs earn more than our guarantee after 1-2 years. I've been at my current job for 1 month. If the rate of growth continues at the current rate (and keep in mind during summer numbers are always lower), I'll be out-earning my salary guarantee by month 9-10. I see the RVU numbers for the whole system every 2 weeks. The only people not on track to break 250k/year are the part timers.

Or you can moonlight slightly and that can help cover your loan debt until your full time job really ramps up.

I see what you're saying but mortgage on a 400k home is ~3k/month when you take into account property tax, HOA etc...

 

[deleted87716]

I see what you're saying but mortgage on a 400k home is ~3k/month when you take into account property tax, HOA etc...

You don't need a $400K house right out of residency. Pay off your loans first.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I see what you're saying but mortgage on a 400k home is ~3k/month when you take into account property tax, HOA etc...

No it isn't. I sold our $400,000 house last October and I know what we paid including homeowners fees and a higher interest rate because we used a physician loan with 0% down and escrow for insurance and property taxes built in.

 

[deleted87716]

No it isn't. I sold our $400,000 house last October and I know what we paid including homeowners fees and a higher interest rate because we used a physician loan with 0% down and escrow for insurance and property taxes built in.

Yeah, at current interest rates (around 4%), the mortgage on a $400K house (with 20% down) would be more like $1500-2000/mo. (depending on taxes and insurance).

If you can't put 20% down, you probably shouldn't be buying the house, IMO. I'm not a fan of PMI.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Yeah, at current interest rates (around 4%), the mortgage on a $400K house (with 20% down) would be more like $1500-2000/mo. (depending on taxes and insurance).

If you can't put 20% down, you probably shouldn't be buying the house, IMO. I'm not a fan of PMI.

Don't lender usually waive the PMI for physicians regardless of down payment?

 

[ortnakas]

Don't lender usually waive the PMI for physicians regardless of down payment?

If it's a "physician's loan," yes, but not all banks offer physician loans.

My husband and I bought a house where we moved for residency (for many reasons it made sense for us), and it ended up being more reasonable to do a non-physician loan with a lower interest rate but PMI than the physician loan with a higher interest rate and no PMI. The physician loan rates we were offered were significantly higher than the alternative. The caveat of that is that my spouse has a career and an income so that my student loans and debt:income ratio didn't stop that from being an option for us; I fully understand I'm fortunate and that that isn't necessarily available for everyone.

Not for OP or Ibn but in general, I will note that banks (for both physician and non-physician loans) will try to approve you for way more than you actually need/want; don't let them. You probably CAN get a loan for a $450K house, but if you can be happy, safe and not homeless with a $250K loan instead, don't choose to be house poor. Especially if you're already med school debt poor.

 

[deleted87716]

Most "physician loans" (if you can find anyone doing those these days) are predatory. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Most "physician loans" (if you can find anyone doing those these days) are predatory. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Good to know. thanks

 

[deleted87716]

Good to know. thanks

SRSLY. I've been married to a banker for 30 years. They entice you with "no money down," but (trust me) they make it up in the interest rate.

The Doctor Mortgage Loan | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance for Doctors

 

[W19]

No it isn't. I sold our $400,000 house last October and I know what we paid including homeowners fees and a higher interest rate because we used a physician loan with 0% down and escrow for insurance and property taxes built in.

I just calculated it on Mortgage Calculator based 0% down, 4% APR, no PMI, $ 1400/yr property insurance, $4500/yr property tax, $150/month HOA... and it's $2552/month. These are very conservative estimates in south FL.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I just calculated it on Mortgage Calculator based 0% down, 4% APR, no PMI, $ 1400/yr property insurance, $4500/yr property tax, $150/month HOA... and it's $2552/month. These are very conservative estimates in south FL.

Your last 2 words are key there.

Plus, $2,000 in HOA fees? That's insane.

So is $4500 in property taxes. I don't pay much more than that now and current house is quite a bit more than this (10% down this time @Blue Dog )

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

SRSLY. I've been married to a banker for 30 years. They entice you with "no money down," but (trust me) they make it up in the interest rate.

The Doctor Mortgage Loan | The White Coat Investor - Investing And Personal Finance for Doctors

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. We've used the SunTrust loan twice now with great results. They hit us with maybe an extra 0.5-0.75% compared to a 20% down payment.

The only problem we ever had was the second time since we had paid so little of the principle off we ended up owing like 2 grand at closing.

That being said, SunTrust's rates were easily 2-3 points less than everywhere else I looked (BoA, BB&T, Wells Fargo) so there is that.

 

[deleted87716]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. We've used the SunTrust loan twice now with great results. They hit us with maybe an extra 0.5-0.75% compared to a 20% down payment.

The only problem we ever had was the second time since we had paid so little of the principle off we ended up owing like 2 grand at closing.

That being said, SunTrust's rates were easily 2-3 points less than everywhere else I looked (BoA, BB&T, Wells Fargo) so there is that.

SunTrust seems to go after doctor business. My group banks with them.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

SunTrust seems to go after doctor business. My group banks with them.

It's a pretty safe group as a general rule. I use them for my personal account I have been fairly pleased as well.

 

[W19]

Your last 2 words are key there.

Plus, $2,000 in HOA fees? That's insane.

So is $4500 in property taxes. I don't pay much more than that now and current house is quite a bit more than this (10% down this time @Blue Dog )

That is not insane in south FL. My sister is paying $315/month HOA for a townhouse... Single family house HOA in a mid/upper middle class neighborhood in south FL runs from $150-200/months... Condo/townhouse HOA anywhere in south FL is >$200/month.

Property taxes in south FL is outrageous.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That is not insane in south FL. My sister is paying $315/month HOA for a townhouse... Single family house HOA in a mid/upper middle class neighborhood in south FL runs from $150-200/months... Condo/townhouse HOA anywhere in south FL is >$200/month.

Property taxes in south FL is outrageous.

As if I needed more reasons to never move there

 

[FrustratedFamDoc]

I went with suntrust for my physician mortgage. Besides being an all around terrible banking experience (at least, locally), the rates were competitive.

My area is fairly economically depressed so the money has to come from somewhere. Property tax on my house continues to rise. Bought in 2012 for <300K. House alone (also have some land) is $4500/yr in nowhere, GA. Indicated fair mkt value is in the mid 300s (which is probably low), I believe. Insurance rates for my area are pretty ridiculous as well. All told, my mortgage/escrow is over $2000/month.

 

[FamilyMD2003]

We used physician loan for 370K home after residency. 0$ down and interest rate 4.5 and mortgage is 1900$ monthly. You have to account for home owners and property taxes (800/mo extra) so our total is 2700 with no PMI. Spoke with family friend who is financial advisor; advice was to keep money that you would use for down payment to pay off other debts (CC’s, cars, etc) and build savings account.

General recommendation:
-Buy home in good location (not too cheap or too expensive; something that retains value)
-build savings (50-70K at least)
-student loan repayment (comfortable monthly payments)
Then
-Retirement and investments

 

[W19]

As if I needed more reasons to never move there

I don't know man, but there must be a reason why FL is the 3rd most populated state in the country and south FL (the tri-county--Miami/Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) is among the top 10 metropolitan areas in the country by population.

 

[smq123]

I don't know man, but there must be a reason why FL is the 3rd most populated state in the country and south FL (the tri-county--Miami/Dade, Broward and Palm Beach) is among the top 10 metropolitan areas in the country by population.

Are you Brazilian? Or from NY? Because the only people I've met in Miami so far who unreservedly love it here are Brazilians and young people from NY. (And a lot of people in the latter eventually change their mind.)

 

[W19]

Are you Brazilian? Or from NY? Because the only people I've met in Miami so far who unreservedly love it here are Brazilians and young people from NY. (And a lot of people in the latter eventually change their mind.)

Never said I love Miami... I actually don't. But it sure is a heck of a lot better than living in most cities in the midwest.

 

[goal-getter]

Agree with SunTrust for physicians loans have used them twice. . one is currently rental (residency) and other reside in... their rates have always been really competitive. No down payment. No pmi.. best loan both times.