starting to feel miserable

[Bac Si]

When I first decided that I wanted to be doctor my desicion was based on helping patients and treating them. The money wasn't a big part, but knowing I was gonna be finanically stable was definitely a plus. But now after hearing a lot of people bashing the obama healthcare reform, I feel sadden. I already knew that going into medicine I would work long hours and would have to be dedicated, but now I feel like I'll have to work even harder and for less. Everyone is saying different things about the healthcare reform.

I just want to simple question. "Will I be work like a dog just to be paid like McDonald's worker?" Not literally but will it ever fall under 100k after taxes? This is after residency of course.

No offense to any McDonald's worker out there, I've worked there before.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[sustentacular]

When I first decided that I wanted to be doctor my desicion was based on helping patients and treating them. The money wasn't a big part, but knowing I was gonna be finanically stable was definitely a plus. But now after hearing a lot of people bashing the obama healthcare reform, I feel sadden. I already knew that going into medicine I would work long hours and would have to be dedicated, but now I feel like I'll have to work even harder and for less. Everyone is saying different things about the healthcare reform.

I just want to simple question. "Will I be work like a dog just to be paid like McDonald's worker?" Not literally but will it ever fall under 100k after taxes? This is after residency of course.

No offense to any McDonald's worker out there, I've worked there before.

There are physicians now who make less than 100k after taxes.

 

[Lil Bear]

it will depend on what specialty you go into. If it's going to be that much of a problem just go into a specialty that fits your desire to help patients but that pays well also.

 

[brooklynblunder]

you will get this feeling in 99% of the jobs that you could have the possibility of working

 

[Bac Si]

you will get this feeling in 99% of the jobs that you could have the possibility of working

but does those other jobs require 10+ years of training? I don't think so.

 

[Poliscidoc]

but does those other jobs require 10+ years of training? I don't think so.

Ok so do something else...

 

[J ROD]

It is what it is....if you love it, then it wont be a job, but a lifestyle.

 

[Compass]

I hear garbage disposal specialists make 6 figure sums. That doesn't need training.

 

[strummin]

This is exactly how Faux News wants you to feel.

 

[oaklandguy]

Well, an optimistic view is that with an American medical degree you can go to basically any country and be one of the better Doctor's there and make lots of money. Or you can be an military Doctor, and be set for the rest of your life. If you want money, it will be there. Money will always be there, you just have to be innovative to make it.

 

[oaklandguy]

This is exactly how Faux News wants you to feel.

...

Let's never imagine the worst situation ever. In fact, lets not worry about the future what-so-ever. Lets have surgeons just cut people open without telling them what might go wrong, or that they might die. Screw it, Fox News is horrible because they want to make sure the right decision is made and that the consequences of that decision do not effect the country in a poor way. If McCain would've won I'm sure there are tons of News Stations that would be railing every single one of his decisions. Get over it. People are gonna criticize, and they should, and if you can't get used to Quality Improvement then don't become a physician cause guess what you're gonna get sued and if you don't prepare for it you're gonna lose a lot more money than you ever could imagine.

 

[ScronCron]

If you're worried, go out and talk to a variety of physicians and do some reading about health care. One thing that's important to remember is that no one physician faces all of the problems in health care and medicine. In reality, each specialty, practice setting and geographic location has its own particular set of problems. GP's face different problems than surgeons. Military doctors face different problems than private practice doctors. OB/GYNs in Florida face different legal issues than those in Louisiana. When you read about health care and medicine, it's easy to get discouraged thinking that you'll have to deal with every single issue. You just have to be smart about your career, what you can handle, what you want, and, if you go into private practice, how you run your business.

If you are smart and savvy, you can have a wonderful and successful career in medicine. That's not to say you won't have challenges, but medicine is by no means an unmanageable career.

 

[jiggahova]

I think physician salaries below 100K pre-tax will never happen. Nurses and pharmacists are in that range now. With this health care reform some doctors will get a pay cut (procedural specialists) and some will get a pay increase (primary care). Overall the average physician salary will stay around 230,000. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Obama putting like 100 billion dollars more into health care. I don't see how putting more money into the system will decrease healthcare professional salaries.

 

[strummin]

...any country and be one of the better Doctor's there and make lots of money. Or you can b...

...the consequences of that decision do not effect the country in a poor way...

No wonder you actually think Faux News "[wants] to make sure the right decision is made..."

 

[280224]

^ Come on now. His concerns about decreases in physician salaries are legitimate. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have been brainwashed by Fox News.

 

[oaklandguy]

No wonder you actually think Faux News "[wants] to make sure the right decision is made..."

Oh wow, I'm sorry I am not on top of my grammar game for you on this online forum. Next time I post I'll attach my transcript and then we'll see who tries to belittle who. Go get laid and stop trying to tell people how to think. If you don't like the fact that our country allows you to have your own beliefs, whether you watch Fox News or CNN then go move to Canada or China.

And really, if you're criticizing me on minuscule grammatical mistakes in an online forum then you need to start contemplating getting laid.

 

[dingyibvs]

Oh wow, I'm sorry I am not on top of my grammar game for you on this online forum. Next time I post I'll attach my transcript and then we'll see who tries to belittle who. Go get laid and stop trying to tell people how to think. If you don't like the fact that our country allows you to have your own beliefs, whether you watch Fox News or CNN then go move to Canada or China.

And really, if you're criticizing me on minuscule grammatical mistakes in an online forum then you need to start contemplating getting laid.

grammar police is annoying, I agree, but telling ppl online to get laid is pretty...douchy...as well.

 

[CoolWhipp]

Doctors still get paid.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Well, an optimistic view is that with an American medical degree you can go to basically any country and be one of the better Doctor's there and make lots of money. Or you can be an military Doctor, and be set for the rest of your life. If you want money, it will be there. Money will always be there, you just have to be innovative to make it.

With all due respect, Oaklandguy, you don't really know what you're talking about. First of all, very few 1st world countries will ever let a doctor with training from another country come in and work. Maybe Canada, though I think those rules are pretty strict and you might have to do residency there. Not sure.

Second, US doctors already make more than doctors in any other country in the world. So, by leaving the US, you're guarenteeing your salary will go down, not up.

If you want to make mad cash as a doctor, don't accept insurance or Medicare. Go cash only. Or become a dentist.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Oh wow, I'm sorry I am not on top of my grammar game for you on this online forum. Next time I post I'll attach my transcript and then we'll see who tries to belittle who. Go get laid and stop trying to tell people how to think. If you don't like the fact that our country allows you to have your own beliefs, whether you watch Fox News or CNN then go move to Canada or China.

And really, if you're criticizing me on minuscule grammatical mistakes in an online forum then you need to start contemplating getting laid.

Wait, Canada doesn't allow you to have your own beliefs? Shoot, I should tell my Canadian friends to start conforming more.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Not to be an intolerant jerk, but the general idea of this thread is somewhat annoying to me. OP, if you're worried that after 10+ years of training, you won't be paid enough, then don't go to med school. Get an MBA or JD or 2-3 years and go into business or law. It's a free country, and no one's forcing you to try for med school.

Further, it's a capitalistic country, and no one owes anyone anything. Your patients or the government don't owe you a 200K salary. They'll pay what the market dictates. The government also can't make you earn 50K a year. Don't take Medicare and become cash only. Don't whine.

 

[dukemed22]

Further, it's a capitalistic country, and no one owes anyone anything. Your patients or the government don't owe you a 200K salary. They'll pay what the market dictates. The government also can't make you earn 50K a year. Don't take Medicare and become cash only. Don't whine.

Is this a joke? Do you think healthcare costs in this country are based on actual market forces? And I can't help but laugh at your notion that this is a "capitalistic country".... we are far from one.

 

[Animus]

With all due respect, Oaklandguy, you don't really know what you're talking about. First of all, very few 1st world countries will ever let a doctor with training from another country come in and work. Maybe Canada, though I think those rules are pretty strict and you might have to do residency there. Not sure.

Second, US doctors already make more than doctors in any other country in the world. So, by leaving the US, you're guarenteeing your salary will go down, not up.

If you want to make mad cash as a doctor, don't accept insurance or Medicare. Go cash only. Or become a dentist.

Actually, its you who are clueless apparently. Both MD's and DO's have practice rights in hundreds of countries around the world.

 

[Animus]

No wonder you actually think Faux News "[wants] to make sure the right decision is made..."

Must be wonderful being a blind idiot. Have any actual points to make?

 

[womp]

I agree with the sentiments of the OP. Medicine is a long path with significant debt burden, and it's better to go into this career fully aware of all the pitfalls than be some of the dismissive hand-in-sand posters here. That way you can do more about it and prepare as you navigate the system.

And anyone who thinks medicine is currently operating on free market forces reveals their utter ignorance of how health care works in America, and will do a disservice to every other physician if they are ever placed in health care reform leadership roles.

 

[Hoody]

Your patients or the government don't owe you a 200K salary.

.

 

[TexasFight]

Is this a joke? Do you think healthcare costs in this country are based on actual market forces? And I can't help but laugh at your notion that this is a "capitalistic country".... we are far from one.

Particularly in health care.

So many pre-meds on this forum think that the laws of supply and demand actually apply to doctors. But they don't get that doctors don't actually set their own prices unless you run a cash only practice (which is limited to very few specialties). You get paid what the insurance companies and government WANT to pay you.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Actually, its you who are clueless apparently. Both MD's and DO's have practice rights in hundreds of countries around the world.

Ouch. Definitely hate to be wrong, but in this case, I am. I could've sworn I'd read on an official board site that you had to complete a residency in Canada to practice there, and likewise in the UK, but for both those examples, I'm definitely wrong. So, Oaklandguy is in fact free to flee to other countries to practice medicine. My bad.

My original argument that he'll make less money doing is still stands.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

Particularly in health care.

So many pre-meds on this forum think that the laws of supply and demand actually apply to doctors. But they don't get that doctors don't actually set their own prices unless you run a cash only practice (which is limited to very few specialties). You get paid what the insurance companies and government WANT to pay you.

Man, it's hard to have a good discussion when everyone's default mode is, "You're an ignorant idiot. Here's how the world really is!" I do this too, so my bad.

I probably used the word "capitalistic" in a loose manner, though my main point does in fact stand. Perhaps "free" would have been a better term. In other words, no one will ever force you to be a doctor, or if you're a doctor, no one can force you to see a patient. Any individual in America can attempt to enter any profession and can then decide how they will conduct their profession.

I'm well aware that insurance companies and the government don't negotiate with individual practitioners. However, as whole, practitioners can force the government and insurance companies' hands by refusing to see patients under that particular plan. Likewise, doctors can work in a cash only office and require individuals to work with their insurance companies. It's a free country; any doctor can try to do any of these things.

 

[FlowRate]

Ouch. Definitely hate to be wrong, but in this case, I am. I could've sworn I'd read on an official board site that you had to complete a residency in Canada to practice there, and likewise in the UK, but for both those examples, I'm definitely wrong. So, Oaklandguy is in fact free to flee to other countries to practice medicine. My bad.

My original argument that he'll make less money doing is still stands.

If it gets real bad, I'll head down to Australia. Second highest physician salaries, behind the US.

 

[Sammich117]

grammar police is annoying, I agree, but telling ppl online to get laid is pretty...douchy...as well.

This thread got relatively hostile.. Wow.

I do sort of agree with the sentiments that if dropping below 100K makes you unsure if it's worth it, medicine may not be for you. I believe physicians will still make plenty of money to have very comfortable lifestyles.

Although, it is also wise to be concerned about reform that has the potential to dramatically change the profession.

I personally feel like as long as doctors aren't only in it for the money, things will be fine.

 

[MegaProjectile]

Ouch. Definitely hate to be wrong, but in this case, I am. I could've sworn I'd read on an official board site that you had to complete a residency in Canada to practice there, and likewise in the UK, but for both those examples, I'm definitely wrong. So, Oaklandguy is in fact free to flee to other countries to practice medicine. My bad.

My original argument that he'll make less money doing is still stands.

Actually you were right. MD degree is recognized by most countries around the world but that doesn't mean that you have "practicing rights" in these countries. In most developed countries you either have to re-do residency or work under observership for a specific time before gaining full rights. In Canada, they can allow you to gain credits in some specialties if you've completed your residency in the USA but you still have to sit for their boards etc.

 

[strummin]

Oh wow, I'm sorry I am not on top of my grammar game for you on this online forum. Next time I post I'll attach my transcript and then we'll see who tries to belittle who. Go get laid and stop trying to tell people how to think. If you don't like the fact that our country allows you to have your own beliefs, whether you watch Fox News or CNN then go move to Canada or China.

And really, if you're criticizing me on minuscule grammatical mistakes in an online forum then you need to start contemplating getting laid.

1.
Well, I'm sorry you're offended. I'm not usually a grammar nazi but, seriously, any person who wants to be a doctor should know that you don't usually use apostrophes for plurals.

2.
I hope that when you reply to this (if you reply to this), you don't forget to post your transcript with your reply. I'd really like to see it. Thanks.

3.
I didn't imply you were brainwashed by Fox News. I'm just saying that your viewpoints are exactly what Fox News wants you to believe. It's all part of their "Obama is a black Muslim socialist out to eat your children" (exaggeration) fear-mongering policies. I believe it is a very biased news organization, and it has every right to be. However, it must not claim to actually be objective - that would be lying to its viewers.

4.
I don't know how getting laid is relevant to all of this. Is there a correlation between dislike of Fox News and how much you're getting? Can you cite any research? But, you know what, I give in! If you insist I get laid, I will. Are you willing to provide or at least refer me to someone?

5.
"...move to Canada or China." Typical extreme right-wing rhetoric. THIS IS AMERICA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, LEAVE!!! That is actually the most un-American thing to do. If people would just have left America anytime they disagreed with anything, America would not exist and we would not have had the suffrage movement, civil rights movement etc. etc.

6.
Btw, I never implied that I don't like the fact that people are entitled to their own opinions. I have absolutely no idea where you got that from.

 

[Sammich117]

1.
Well, I'm sorry you're offended. I'm not usually a grammar nazi but, seriously, any person who wants to be a doctor should know that you don't usually use apostrophes for plurals.

2.
I hope that when you reply to this (if you reply to this), you don't forget to post your transcript with your reply. I'd really like to see it. Thanks.

3.
I didn't imply you were brainwashed by Fox News. I'm just saying that your viewpoints are exactly what Fox News wants you to believe. It's all part of their "Obama is a black Muslim socialist out to eat your children" (exaggeration) fear-mongering policies. I believe it is a very biased news organization, and it has every right to be. However, it must not claim to actually be objective - that would be lying to its viewers.

4.
I don't know how getting laid is relevant to all of this. Is there a correlation between dislike of Fox News and how much you're getting? Can you cite any research? But, you know what, I give in! If you insist I get laid, I will. Are you willing to provide or at least refer me to someone?

5.
"...move to Canada or China." Typical extreme right-wing rhetoric. THIS IS AMERICA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, LEAVE!!! That is actually the most un-American thing to do. If people would just have left America anytime they disagreed with anything, America would not exist and we would not have had the suffrage movement, civil rights movement etc. etc.

6.
Btw, I never implied that I don't like the fact that people are entitled to their own opinions. I have absolutely no idea where you got that from.

I giggled at number 5...

 

[Animus]

1.
Well, I'm sorry you're offended. I'm not usually a grammar nazi but, seriously, any person who wants to be a doctor should know that you don't usually use apostrophes for plurals.

2.
I hope that when you reply to this (if you reply to this), you don't forget to post your transcript with your reply. I'd really like to see it. Thanks.

3.
I didn't imply you were brainwashed by Fox News. I'm just saying that your viewpoints are exactly what Fox News wants you to believe. It's all part of their "Obama is a black Muslim socialist out to eat your children" (exaggeration) fear-mongering policies. I believe it is a very biased news organization, and it has every right to be. However, it must not claim to actually be objective - that would be lying to its viewers.

4.
I don't know how getting laid is relevant to all of this. Is there a correlation between dislike of Fox News and how much you're getting? Can you cite any research? But, you know what, I give in! If you insist I get laid, I will. Are you willing to provide or at least refer me to someone?

5.
"...move to Canada or China." Typical extreme right-wing rhetoric. THIS IS AMERICA. IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, LEAVE!!! That is actually the most un-American thing to do. If people would just have left America anytime they disagreed with anything, America would not exist and we would not have had the suffrage movement, civil rights movement etc. etc.

6.
Btw, I never implied that I don't like the fact that people are entitled to their own opinions. I have absolutely no idea where you got that from.

1. People who attack grammar have nothing else to attack.
2. Only in the land of the premeds are transcripts key, LOVE IT. You must be so smart, let us all witness it please.
3. There are more biased organizations and they pander to the Left. No one expressed any of the sentiments you claimed, I thought they were decent criticisms.

Again I ask you to submit your own ideas for discussion instead of trying to fit others into some broad category that does not align with your own.

 

[FIREitUP]

Hey guys, lets strive to be more like Fox news in this thread--Fair and Balanced. thx.