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95ragtop

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I am active duty enlisted with 13 years TIS. Currently in the process of applying to medical schools with a 3.72 GPA and a 506 MCAT. I have a stay at home wife with a 3 year old and a 1 year old.

Something that weighs heavy on my mind every day is staying in to finish my 20 or getting out. If I stayed in, I would prefer to attend USUHS due to the benefits for my family.

If I got out, I plan on attending a Texas State school and using the Hazelwood Act to pay my tuition and concurrently using the Ch 30 Montgomery GI Bill. I have a good amount in assets that I would liquidate to minimize student loans, and probably come pretty close to not having any.

Reasons for leaving: knowing too many older guys who missed out on their kids growing up, extremely tired of the political environment, moving every several years, the skill atrophy I read about on here, the way my body feels after 13 years in the military, and I would like to help my parents out financially.

Despite all the negatives I do enjoy the people in the military and providing care to our soldiers. Plus the security blanket the military provides and I'll be 6.5 years from retirement.

I would like any input, especially any prior enlisted that were in my position.

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If you can finish medical school without debt and without a service obligation, that’s almost always the right answer.

Walking away from 13 years of credit is tough, but you’ll have options after residency (active duty, reserves, the VA) that can use that credit.
 
I am active duty enlisted with 13 years TIS. Currently in the process of applying to medical schools with a 3.72 GPA and a 506 MCAT. I have a stay at home wife with a 3 year old and a 1 year old.

Something that weighs heavy on my mind every day is staying in to finish my 20 or getting out. If I stayed in, I would prefer to attend USUHS due to the benefits for my family.

If I got out, I plan on attending a Texas State school and using the Hazelwood Act to pay my tuition and concurrently using the Ch 30 Montgomery GI Bill. I have a good amount in assets that I would liquidate to minimize student loans, and probably come pretty close to not having any.

Reasons for leaving: knowing too many older guys who missed out on their kids growing up, extremely tired of the political environment, moving every several years, the skill atrophy I read about on here, the way my body feels after 13 years in the military, and I would like to help my parents out financially.

Despite all the negatives I do enjoy the people in the military and providing care to our soldiers. Plus the security blanket the military provides and I'll be 6.5 years from retirement.

I would like any input, especially any prior enlisted that were in my position.

I always recommend girls/dudes who are 50+% through that 20 yr benchmark to man/woman up and go for that 20 year point. Residency in the military is going to give you the same time with your family as a civilian residency. So, after your residency, you will have about 17-18 years in the military already.

As far as USUSH vs HPSP, it's really up to you in term of 7 year or 4 year commitment to the military for low wages. In term of your position, I would recommend HCSP while using Hazelwood to go to a Texas school for free. 4 years of HCSP count as active duty.
 
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If 6.5 years more military is not to your liking, you can convert those years and work federal for a while to get a nice federal pension. Not as sweet as a military pension, but it beats walking away from all that time invested for naught.
 
If 6.5 years more military is not to your liking, you can convert those years and work federal for a while to get a nice federal pension. Not as sweet as a military pension, but it beats walking away from all that time invested for naught.

Minimum 5 years. Could do reserves for same period and basically break even compared to a .mil retirement.
 
Definitely not USUHS. Does HSCP still exist? I thought it was going away.

Do you know what you want to practice?

I am attracted to emergency medicine, anesthesiology, psychiatry, and neurosurgery (the ridiculous residency makes me reconsider).

I do have a question about officer retirement. My old battalion surgeon was forced to retire as an E-7 because he didn't do the 10 years as an officer. I was reading that with over 8 years as an officer you can retire as an O, and then found the Proper Act allowing only 4 years as an officer to qualify. Does anyone have a definite answer as to when I would be able to retire as an O-3E?
 
I am active duty enlisted with 13 years TIS. Currently in the process of applying to medical schools with a 3.72 GPA and a 506 MCAT. I have a stay at home wife with a 3 year old and a 1 year old.

Something that weighs heavy on my mind every day is staying in to finish my 20 or getting out. If I stayed in, I would prefer to attend USUHS due to the benefits for my family.

If I got out, I plan on attending a Texas State school and using the Hazelwood Act to pay my tuition and concurrently using the Ch 30 Montgomery GI Bill. I have a good amount in assets that I would liquidate to minimize student loans, and probably come pretty close to not having any.

Reasons for leaving: knowing too many older guys who missed out on their kids growing up, extremely tired of the political environment, moving every several years, the skill atrophy I read about on here, the way my body feels after 13 years in the military, and I would like to help my parents out financially.

Despite all the negatives I do enjoy the people in the military and providing care to our soldiers. Plus the security blanket the military provides and I'll be 6.5 years from retirement.

I would like any input, especially any prior enlisted that were in my position.




Felt like I had to chime in here even though I rarely hit SDN and never post. Sorry if it is long but it’s an appeal and I’m quite a few beers deep. Looks like from your post hx you’re an SF guy. I was in your shoes roughly five years ago. 18E to 18D convert with some time spent working for a few three letter agencies also. Not content with my current situation, as are many nomadic team guys, I told myself I would take the long walk or go to med school. Trained for the walk and after previous injuries, surgeries, and the ancient age of early 30’s, I found myself lacking and went the med route. Busted out college fast through Campbell, took MCAT late and shot out apps but was able to get into a DO school. Probably should have went MD (financially) but that’s another story.

So you decide to displace the kids from school and move your wife and her inordinate amount of crap out of your paid off house across the country to the med school of your choosing.

If you’ve been downrange when things were fun you’ve possibly been shot, blown up, or taken care of both. For me, this put everything into crystal clear perspective. I preface this by stating I am a quiet professional who blends in the best I can without touting ‘merica or details of my previous life. In med school I encountered neurotic classmates with petty concerns, entitlement, and with little understanding of the world of large. I found myself a stranger in a strange land. Of course there are exceptions and I found a couple of “bros” to decompress with. After the academic strains, which aren’t half bad, you’ll hit the floor. Here is where you will learn to truly hate medicine as you take care of an overwhelming population of fat, entitled, glutinous individuals. Sometimes you will take care of some of really wonderful people who will invariably crump and fuc*ing die because that’s just what they seem to do. I’m just guessing you want to go EM, like I wanted, where you will no doubt see more than enough of these booger eaters. You’ll graduate and match into whatever. I didn’t have the patience for half of the EM patients so I went into gas.

You will move on to residency where it is better but still rough. And it goes without saying, but I hope your hubris is minimal because you will still find yourself unnecessarily admonished by some attending without a quarter of the spine to attempt what you’ve accomplished thus far. I still have an upcoming medicine rotation that I would gladly trade for solitary confinement at the state pen. This is the game though and it’s best played quietly with head down.

Most of my musings have been negative thus far but I will say even as an intern I am as dedicated to learning my craft as much as anyone and excited for the CA years. I find joy in immersing myself in the textbook/lectures for what will carry me for the next 30 years and it insulates me from the crazy bull*hit of the real world for now. Also, the money I will make as an attending will theoretically carry me for many decades for materials as the only value I place on anything is found only in family, friends, and outdoors amongst the elements.

In summary there are things you have to ask yourself and I swear I’m going to develop a formal questionnaire for every god*amn SOF type in every ODA/team/regiment that contemplates Med/PA school. Some questions might include: Do you love being downrange? Do you spend more time with the team than your family (and don’t mind it)? Do you like getting paid for things SEALs won’t stop writing about and charge thousands of dollars for civilian simulations for? Are you 40 years beyond your age of what should be expected for cynicism and bitterness with regard to the human race? Will you have issues being jettisoned from what is arguably the top of your field to the absolute bottom level in a new organization? Are you averse to debt or unwilling to work as a family medicine/IM physician (god bless them)? In my assessment, a yes to any of these would preclude you from medicine.

I no longer get paid to work out, hang with bro’s in the teamroom, freefall, shoot, drive, or any other cool things that go along with being on a team. You most likely won’t listen if you’re a team guy because you’ve already decided but if I had a time machine I would smack the **** out of old me and take that burning desire to take it to the next level and put it my pocket. Best case scenario you’re back in the mil debt free as a doc on the sidelines taking care of the cool guys and watching them do what you used to do. Good luck.
 
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I do have a question about officer retirement. My old battalion surgeon was forced to retire as an E-7 because he didn't do the 10 years as an officer. I was reading that with over 8 years as an officer you can retire as an O, and then found the Proper Act allowing only 4 years as an officer to qualify. Does anyone have a definite answer as to when I would be able to retire as an O-3E?

The PROPER act expired Sept 30, 2016

For Army, everything I found indicates ten years as an officer though with eight years as an officer you may be protected to 'gain' your ten for retirement per AR 600-8-24:
DOPMA/ROPMA Reference | Retirement for Age and Years of Service

10 U.S. Code § 3911, § 6323, and § 8911: Regular and reserve officers in the Armed Forces may retire after 20 years of service, at least 10 of which must have been as an active commissioned officer.

AR600-8-24
http://www.apd.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/r600_8_24.pdf

(2) An officer, other than a warrant officer, within 2 years of qualifying for retirement (10 USC 3911—20 years active service including 10 years of commissioned officer service or 10 USC 1331—20 years qualifying service) prior to attaining maximum length of service will be retained on AD and in an active status until the end of the month after he or she becomes eligible for retirement.

If you attend USUHS you could retire as an O4. Even HPSP would likely create years of obligation making you an O4 at retirement. 4 years med school as an 01E then re-commission as an O3 with O3E pay.
HPSP
In service residency (3 years minimum)
Obligated service (4 years) unless you choose a long residency that increases your obligation
3 additional years to meet Officer retirement eligibility with a short residency
or
USUHS
In service residency (3 years minimum)
Obligated service (7 years)
0 additional years to meet Officer retirement eligibility unless you choose a longer residency that increases your TIS
or
HSCP (Navy)
Time in medical school is credited for retirement (E6 or E7) but based on the USC you would still have to serve 10 years as an officer.

If you take HPSP or USUHS, at a minimum you are looking at 14 years to retire as an officer, from the time you start medical school.

If anyone can explain this more clearly or if my explanation is incorrect please have at it.
 
so WTF would someone retire at if they had 13 years enlisted, and 7 as an officer? their last enlisted rank with 20 years of service? this is mind boggling. I had no idea. if that's the case I'd be tempted to look into GS.

Felt like I had to chime in here even though I rarely hit SDN and never post. Sorry if it is long but it’s an appeal and I’m quite a few beers deep. Looks like from your post hx you’re an SF guy. I was in your shoes roughly five years ago. 18E to 18D convert with some time spent working for a few three letter agencies also. Not content with my current situation, as are many nomadic team guys, I told myself I would take the long walk or go to med school. Trained for the walk and after previous injuries, surgeries, and the ancient age of early 30’s, I found myself lacking and went the med route. Busted out college fast through Campbell, took MCAT late and shot out apps but was able to get into a DO school. Probably should have went MD (financially) but that’s another story.

So you decide to displace the kids from school and move your wife and her inordinate amount of crap out of your paid off house across the country to the med school of your choosing.

If you’ve been downrange when things were fun you’ve possibly been shot, blown up, or taken care of both. For me, this put everything into crystal clear perspective. I preface this by stating I am a quiet professional who blends in the best I can without touting ‘merica or details of my previous life. In med school I encountered neurotic classmates with petty concerns, entitlement, and with little understanding of the world of large. I found myself a stranger in a strange land. Of course there are exceptions and I found a couple of “bros” to decompress with. After the academic strains, which aren’t half bad, you’ll hit the floor. Here is where you will learn to truly hate medicine as you take care of an overwhelming population of fat, entitled, glutinous individuals. Sometimes you will take care of some of really wonderful people who will invariably crump and fuc*ing die because that’s just what they seem to do. I’m just guessing you want to go EM, like I wanted, where you will no doubt see more than enough of these booger eaters. You’ll graduate and match into whatever. I didn’t have the patience for half of the EM patients so I went into gas.

You will move on to residency where it is better but still rough. And it goes without saying, but I hope your hubris is minimal because you will still find yourself unnecessarily admonished by some attending without a quarter of the spine to attempt what you’ve accomplished thus far. I still have an upcoming medicine rotation that I would gladly trade for solitary confinement at the state pen. This is the game though and it’s best played quietly with head down.

Most of my musings have been negative thus far but I will say even as an intern I am as dedicated to learning my craft as much as anyone and excited for the CA years. I find joy in immersing myself in the textbook/lectures for what will carry me for the next 30 years and it insulates me from the crazy bull*hit of the real world for now. Also, the money I will make as an attending will theoretically carry me for many decades for materials as the only value I place on anything is found only in family, friends, and outdoors amongst the elements.

In summary there are things you have to ask yourself and I swear I’m going to develop a formal questionnaire for every god*amn SOF type in every ODA/team/regiment that contemplates Med/PA school. Some questions might include: Do you love being downrange? Do you spend more time with the team than your family (and don’t mind it)? Do you like getting paid for things SEALs won’t stop writing about and charge thousands of dollars for civilian simulations for? Are you 40 years beyond your age of what should be expected for cynicism and bitterness with regard to the human race? Will you have issues being jettisoned from what is arguably the top of your field to the absolute bottom level in a new organization? Are you averse to debt or unwilling to work as a family medicine/IM physician (god bless them)? In my assessment, a yes to any of these would preclude you from medicine.

I no longer get paid to work out, hang with bro’s in the teamroom, freefall, shoot, drive, or any other cool things that go along with being on a team. You most likely won’t listen if you’re a team guy because you’ve already decided but if I had a time machine I would smack the **** out of old me and take that burning desire to take it to the next level and put it my pocket. Best case scenario you’re back in the mil debt free as a doc on the sidelines taking care of the cool guys and watching them do what you used to do. Good luck.

@18dpremed - fantastic post. should sticky this SOB. stick around. I have this conversation frequently with high functioning medics, PAs, and the occasional ODA team member that comes through. you're in a unique position to give some good advice on the topic. welcome :D

--your friendly neighborhood we grow stronger by the day caveman
 
Since it requires you to be 10 years as an officer to get the retired officer pay, I would gtfo. You can always come back to federal service as a civilian doc on one of those MTFs and buy back your enlisted time to get that federal retirement. So, here's the game plan:

1) Get into a Texas medical school
2) Finish school and get into an ACGME residency
3) Finish your residency
4) Sign up to be a reserved doc
5) Get a private practice job or a civilian gig at a MTF depending on the pay difference
 
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Get out now. Save yourself years of frustration. I was a prior officer, at the top of my respective game, and ended up taking hpsp. It hasn't been the worst decision of my life, but there are still a couple years left for things to play out. I've endured all that has been mentioned over and over again on these threads. And all of the above posts are spot on.
 
I appreciate everyone's responses. Navy's HSCP sounds like an incredible deal, my only aversion to it is that if I stay in I want to be doing something with my current teammates such as; Battalion Surgeon or Group Psych. If I wasn't doing that, I would still like to mentor young joes if my career path piques their interest.

Another issue for me is every time I plan out an enlisted retirement, it looks like peanuts. $2,600/month, yes it is something, but for another 3 years I could retire as an officer and double that amount. At that point I have been in the military about 28 years. How many anniversaries, birthdays, kiddo's football games, daughter's talent shows have I given up for that free education? I know civilians have some days they miss, but they also aren't going to NTC for a month or a 6 month deployment.

Some other factors affecting my decision will be if the Army releases me from my contract early. If I am not released early do I want to defer my civilian acceptance a year, do HPSP, or just suck it up and go to USUHS? Might be over thinking things as I sit here waiting for interviews, but I believe it is better to be prepared.
 
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