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So how similar are the usmle step 1 compared to the mcat...does the mcat really predict how one will do on step 1?
drwannabe44 said:So how similar are the usmle step 1 compared to the mcat...does the mcat really predict how one will do on step 1?
Depakote said:They'll both be on computers starting in 2007...
That's about it.
I know. But the MCATs arent...Law2Doc said:The boards are already on computers.
Depakote said:I know. But the MCATs arent...
drwannabe44 said:So how similar are the usmle step 1 compared to the mcat...does the mcat really predict how one will do on step 1?
njbmd said:Hi there,
Actually both tests ask you to take a body of knowledge and apply it to problems. The MCAT is more limited than USMLE Step I and is not generally a predictor of your USMLE Step I score though there is some correlation between your verbal score and Step I score.
njbmd
defrunner said:So... med schools look kindly upon good verbal scores and make it a difference maker between acceptances/rejections?
defrunner said:So... med schools look kindly upon good verbal scores and make it a difference maker between acceptances/rejections?
Law2Doc said:They look kindly but it won't be a big decision maker. If you have a 20 MCAT but 10 of those points are in VR, you are still SOL.
defrunner said:Haha that was funny... Yeah, I was asking because I have an unbalanced score myself. Even though it's a good score, my splits were 9 P, 14 V, 10 B (33 total). As I've outlined in other posts, I have an extremely low undergrad GPA, esp. in the sciences, so I was just curious as to how much weight verbal was given (for the ulterior motive of pointlessly trying to figure out how much the 14V in a good, but unbalanced MCAT score helps balance my GPA).
Dr. Pepper said:I'm following this thread between studying.
In my opinion, you will receive mixed results.
Ideally, you would want an MCAT score where the VR is the highest, but you would still have a solid PS and BS score like 11PS 11BS 14VR.
However, in your case, it seems that your P and B are a bit low, but your V is tremendous.
Therefore, I think it's hit or miss. Some schools want a well balanced applicant, but others reward those with an oustanding section (this is particularly the case in VR).
Nevertheless, don't get your hopes up too much. An unbalanced MCAT score probably won't make up for an extremely low GPA (I'm assuming around 3.0 or below).
But the 14VR may be a wildcard, you never know.
-Dr. P.
defrunner said:Hey, it's better to be lucky than good, right? Hehe. No seriously, that's good advice and is about what I'm expecting. To be fair, I am in a master's program in the sciences at a very prestigious university, which I'm doing well in, so hopefully that'll help even more with balancing out my undergrad GPA (even though master's programs in general are notorious for grade inflation). We'll see; I've said all along that all I want is to just get to the interview stage. Hopefully that happens, because you never know.
Law2Doc said:With that MCAT and good results in a hard science masters, I'm sure some places will give you a look. Apply broadly, because you need to catch someone's eye.
defrunner said:Agreed. I applied to Hopkins (as my major reach haha, not expecting anything), UMaryland, Temple, Drexel, Loyola Stritch, UVermont, UMDNJ - Robert Wood Johnson, UMDNJ - New Jersey Medical School, NYMC. That's 9 schools (I'm from Jersey) and would like to apply to more but I can't afford to. Hopefully that's broad enough.
Law2Doc said:I personally would up it a couple more. Keeping within that northeast/midatlantic region, you might want to consider adding in Jefferson and some of the manhattan or DC schools.
defrunner said:Sounds like a great plan, but the thing to remember is that I really can't afford it. Rent, cell phone bill (yes, ironically enough), cable, utilities, etc. need to be paid first. It sucks being on my own sometimes. I'd love to add more but if I can only afford to do so a month from now, then there really is no point, because a guy with my stats isnt going to get a second look when the vast majority of the people apply to med school. I'm going to apply to DO in a month instead because that'll hopefully give me a slightly better chance of getting in somewhere.
Dr. Pepper said:I have heard somewhere that the VR section is a decent-at-best indicator of Step 1 success, most likely because (I'm assuming that) the Step 1 test has a lot of passage-based question in which efficient and critical reading are necessary to answer the question appropriately.
In terms of the other sections, the material is pretty much completely different.
Basically, every new test is a completely new ball game.
-Dr. P.
akaz said:I have heard this alot from Kaplan folks. VR often predicts step 1 performance.
drwannabe44 said:So how similar are the usmle step 1 compared to the mcat...does the mcat really predict how one will do on step 1?
Law2Doc said:Anyone know a source for this? This discussion came up on SDN last week, and the articles found on Pubmed all seemed to say that VR was a good predictor of Step 2, but nothing was found mentioning Step 1. I personally would guess it applies to step one as well.
chewsnuffles said:Since we are talking about how things are seen, I ask this:
I got a 13VR 11PS 10BS and an S in writing. Does that S mean anything on the whole? Am I more competative than a 34P realistically. OR, how about a 35 O?
I ask because it seems obvious, but I hear that the writing score often gets overlooked.
Also, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but with a 3.00 flat and that MCAT score, do ya think I'll get a second look? (interview?) Sorry to bother ya, but I'm kinda lacking faith as I start filling out secondaries and sending in big checks. The primary came as a single one (22 schools though) so I could deal better with it...
I don't think I'm compleatly out of place cause me and the OP share kind of the same stats
And i wish ya all the luck in the world too!
njbmd said:Hi there,
Lot's more reading on Step II CK than Step I but you really need to be pretty sharp for both. I don't think that having a high verbal and low everything will make you a shoo in for medical school. It really is THE WHOLE APPLICATION and some subjective stuff (did they like you on the interview?) thrown in for good measure. Add a whopping dose of how the wind is blowing and you have the perfect formula for getting in.
njbmd
chewsnuffles said:Since we are talking about how things are seen, I ask this:
I got a 13VR 11PS 10BS and an S in writing. Does that S mean anything on the whole? Am I more competative than a 34P realistically. OR, how about a 35 O?
I ask because it seems obvious, but I hear that the writing score often gets overlooked.
Also, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but with a 3.00 flat and that MCAT score, do ya think I'll get a second look? (interview?) Sorry to bother ya, but I'm kinda lacking faith as I start filling out secondaries and sending in big checks. The primary came as a single one (22 schools though) so I could deal better with it...
I don't think I'm compleatly out of place cause me and the OP share kind of the same stats
And i wish ya all the luck in the world too!
LOL, I havn't found out the answer to that question yet, but I'm sure if I try hard enough...defrunner said:I don't know if this is true or not, but I've read through a few threads that said that a low GPA can be better compensated by a strong MCAT than a low MCAT can be by a strong GPA. Of course, the obvious caveat is just how low you can go with the GPA, haha.
chewsnuffles said:LOL, I havn't found out the answer to that question yet, but I'm sure if I try hard enough...
Yeah, I hear constantly contradicing info on if a low MCAT or low GPA is worse. I'm just going to leave it at they are both bad, but not nessesarily damning (unlike cheating, or previously failing out of med school)
As for our good writing scores, I'm actually a terrible writer and had to enlist the help of a hundred monkey's chained to typewriters to write my PS (or about 10 very kind editors from the SDN)
I'm just a good arguer I think, although if Law2Doc ever wants to he can own me in that field...
defrunner said:Once at the interview, we are on equal footing with everyone else
defrunner said:But if I were you, I'd merely make my goal just to get to the interview stage really (because that's what my goal is). Once at the interview, we are on equal footing with everyone else and from that point on, whatever happens is on us to nail it down.
defrunner said:My point is, what you've done is now in the past. Focus on what you can do in the present and in the future, because that's all you can do. You can't change your grades and I can't change mine. For better or worse, it's there for everyone to see.
Dr. Pepper said:I agree with Teera that this isn't necesarily true. Many people who have had horrific interviews are accepted while others who have stellar interviews are waitlisted or even rejected. I know it feels that once you have the interview, it's all equal (and this is probably the case with some schools), but your profile will always be observed and scrutinized. With that said, understand that the interview is still an integral part of the whole process, and an outstanding interview has tipped the balance towards an acceptance.
-Dr. P.
medgator said:Not at all.... the MCAT involves some level of reasoning. While the same can be said of Step 1, you have WAAAY more info to know for it. A chunk of step 1 questions are just straight up knowledge of certain facts. The rest of them are often "2 step" questions where you need to know a fact you learned during med school, and then apply it to figure out the answer. If you dont know the fact, you're screwed... if you dont know how to apply it, you're also screwed.
defrunner said:Agreed. I applied to Hopkins (as my major reach haha, not expecting anything), UMaryland, Temple, Drexel, Loyola Stritch, UVermont, UMDNJ - Robert Wood Johnson, UMDNJ - New Jersey Medical School, NYMC. That's 9 schools (I'm from Jersey) and would like to apply to more but I can't afford to. Hopefully that's broad enough.
MiesVanDerMom said:According to the MCAT people, your SAT verbal score has the highest correlation with your STEP 1 score. Is that why some secondaries ask for your SAT score? Penn state does...
akaz said:I have heard this alot from Kaplan folks. VR often predicts step 1 performance.
ADeadLois said:Keep in mind that Kaplan also believes in the Turkey-Tryptophan-Makes you Sleepy myth .
MiesVanDerMom said:i'm in a similar situation (13V, 9, 9 MCAT and some grade issues) and applying to a lot of the same schools as you (also limited by finances and wish I could apply to more). Hopefully we'll see each other on the interview trail! to you. Someone's gotta recognize our genius, right?
MiesVanDerMom said:According to the MCAT people, your SAT verbal score has the highest correlation with your STEP 1 score. Is that why some secondaries ask for your SAT score? Penn state does...
medgator said:The kind of questions you'll see on step 1 relate to the basic pharmacology and pathophysiology of the human body.... and how well you can apply the information on your own. How that can even remotely relate to answering questions about some 500 word passage is beyond me. I dont see the correlation in the least. If you've got good verbal reasoning skills, youll do well on the MCAT verbal section. If you know the crapload of information from 1st and 2nd year of medical school, then youll do well on Step 1.
Good test takers tend to stay good test takers but, like anything, you'll have outliers at either end of the STEP1 bell curve. I have friends with low scores on the MCAT and outstanding USMLEs and others with >34 on the MCAT and average/below average on STEP1. The MCAT really punishes people who may otherwise have a lot of knowledge but read passages slowly........drwannabe44 said:So how similar are the usmle step 1 compared to the mcat...does the mcat really predict how one will do on step 1?
defrunner said:This is what the verbal reasoning section tests. You just answered your own question.
That statistic makes no sense. Does that then mean if you score 24+, your failure rate drops from 90% to 5%? If nothing else, look at the average MCAT score for osteopathic schools and, while the STEP1 pass rate is lower than for allopathic schools, I promise you that they do not have a 90% failure rate.tulanensis said:AAMC keeps tabs on MCAT and USMLE 1 correlation...Dean of admissions of a med school told me that the major finding is that an MCAT of 23 or below corresponds to a 90% chance of failure on USMLE 1. Beyond that, not much info can be gleaned. Good MCATers get bad USMLEs and vice-versa.
tulanensis said:AAMC keeps tabs on MCAT and USMLE 1 correlation...Dean of admissions of a med school told me that the major finding is that an MCAT of 23 or below corresponds to a 90% chance of failure on USMLE 1. Beyond that, not much info can be gleaned. Good MCATers get bad USMLEs and vice-versa.