Step 1 score and ENT

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by TL11111, Jun 21, 2002.

  1. TL11111

    TL11111 New Member

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    Hi all,
    What range of scores are considered competitive for an ENT residency spot (top, mid, and lower tier programs). Thanks for the help!
     
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  3. dknykid1980

    dknykid1980 Senior Member

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    what's ENT? is that same thing as EMS? I'm assuming both are related to emergency med somehow.

    sincerely,

    naive
     
  4. TL11111

    TL11111 New Member

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    My mistake. I shouldn't have used the 3-lettered "4-letter word" for Otolaryngology/Head & Neck Surgery.
     
  5. mcwmark

    mcwmark Senior Member

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    I heard the average Step 1 score for matched applicants was 237 this year. Second highest average, only to Derm, I think...
     
  6. TL11111

    TL11111 New Member

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    Thanks MC,
    I've tried searching for sites with some info like that, but haven't been able to find anything. Did you find this on the web or did you hear it from someone?

    T
     
  7. mcwmark

    mcwmark Senior Member

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    I heard it from someone that matched in ENT this year, so it's still hearsay. I believe he heard it from the program director at our school.
     
  8. SFMatch used to have the average Step 1 scores for ENT on their website. However, with the commencement of the 2002-2003 application cycle, they've since removed it. They will probably list match statistics again after the completion of this year's match. I do remember the average score for matched applicants being in the mid 230s last year.
     
  9. neutropeniaboy

    neutropeniaboy Blasted ENT Attending

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    I'm a pgy-1 going into otolaryngology.

    I can address a few things for you guys.

    The term "ENT" is not a 4-letter word for Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery. Nobody I know answers pages as "Hi, I'm the otolaryngology-head and neck surgery resident on call." I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "ENT." However, I would never put "ENT" on my white coat, business cards, publications, office, etc. It's just easier to say "ENT."

    The average USMLE Step 1 score of a matched applicant for the 2002 match was 233, not 237. This is down from 2001 (236) and down from 2000 (234). I'm sure it's not statistically significant, however. The average USMLE Step 1 score of someone who didn't match was 214. This is up from 2001 (213) and 2000 (213). I'm definitely sure this isn't statistically significant. The SF Match used to publish this data; instead it is mailed directly to applicants.

    85% of US seniors who applied for otolaryngology matched (taking 233 of 250 spots). 40% of US grads who applied matched. 27% of FMG who applied matched.

    ENT is definitely one of the most competitive and exclusive residency programs. I would say that dermatology is still more competitive. As far as scores go, I think it's more competitive than radiology, ophthalmology, orthopedics, neurosurgery, and urology; however, based on popularity, ortho and rads may have higher unmatch rates. (That's just my impression.)
     
  10. wake up sir your surgery is over

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    Excellent point Neutropeniaboy about the skewedness of the match rate statistics, although after doing a month rotation on Hem-Onc, that is a rather disturbing name.

    For the dude who asked the question, always try to find out whatt the match rate for US seniors was, not the total match rate, and just because ENT has a higher match rate does not mean it is less competitive, it just means that there are less people than radiology who looked up a salary survery on the computer and saw what radiologists make and said, damn, i should be a radiologist. Still harder to match ENT than rads per many people who just went through the match this march. I know a guy who did not match with a 245 in ENT. Maybe he was weird or something, but it is a specialty that generally is more of a boys club kind of thing and they want people who are cool and have good board scores. Tools need not apply for ENT. It is kind of like ortho.
     
  11. droliver

    Moderator Emeritus

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    I think the integrated Plastic residencies have had the most non-matching applicants in recent years, while neurosurgery has had a very high match rate. Anyone got stats?
     
  12. mcwmark

    mcwmark Senior Member

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    Neurosurgery for 2002:

    Rank Lists: 221
    Ranked: 200
    Matched: 134

    Average Step 1 (matched): 230
    Average Step 1 (unmatched): 215
     
  13. arthur v

    arthur v Member

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    The problem with the match and application statistics reported by the NRMP and ERAS is that they never tell us exactly how many U.S. seniors applied to a particular specialty. Integrated plastics is a bit easier to figure out because it starts at the PGY-1 level and we know that the vast majority (93.5%) of the 77 positions went to U.S. seniors. A rough estimate for U.S. seniors in 2002, then, would be to use 178 U.S. applicants (ERAS stats) for 77 positions (NRMP stats) = a 43% match rate.

    In 2002, derm had a 48% match rate for U.S. applicants (which includes seniors, reapplicants, research fellows, and those training in or having completed another specialty).

    AV
     
  14. neutropeniaboy

    neutropeniaboy Blasted ENT Attending

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by arthur v:
    <strong>

    In 2002, derm had a 48% match rate for U.S. applicants (which includes seniors, reapplicants, research fellows, and those training in or having completed another specialty).

    AV</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does that also include people applying to derm and other specialties as well?
     
  15. arthur v

    arthur v Member

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    neutropeniaboy-

    Yes, it includes any U.S. senior or graduate who submitted a single application to dermatology (even on a lark). Almost no one applies solely to derm nowadays; they'll at least include a prelim or transitional year at the end of their rank list so they have someplace to go if they don't match derm.

    For those considering a competitive specialty-

    It all boils down to this: the match rate if you don't apply is 0%. I have friends with very average stats who matched to dermatology, neurosurgery, and urology this year. Low scores or grades can be overcome by research, connections, and your personality, so if it's what you want to do, go for it, but have a back-up plan for internship so you can apply again if need be.

    AV
     
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  17. Jive Turkey

    Jive Turkey Member

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    Arthur V: I see you've mentioned that you had a friend who matched into Uro with average stats. I'm basically an aspiring Uro who's scared about the prospects of not matching because of my poor stats. I know its out of the context of this discussion, but would you mind sharing some info about (1) what was the lowest score you know of that matched into Uro and (2) Which places would someone like me have a shot at?

    Sorry to everyone else for this change of topic (I wasn't able to send Arthur V a private message).
     
  18. Elliebelly

    Elliebelly Junior Member

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    neutropeniaboy - could you clarify the difference between US seniors and US grads? (referring to the match rates you supplied)
    Thanks!
     
  19. vhl

    vhl Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dknykid1980:
    <strong>what's ENT? is that same thing as EMS? I'm assuming both are related to emergency med somehow.

    sincerely,

    naive</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think "ENT" stands for Ear, Nose, and Throat.
     
  20. neutropeniaboy

    neutropeniaboy Blasted ENT Attending

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elliebelly:
    <strong>neutropeniaboy - could you clarify the difference between US seniors and US grads? (referring to the match rates you supplied)
    Thanks!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A US senior is a 4th year student applying for residency. A US grad is someone applying for residency who has already been graduated from medical school.
     
  21. Elliebelly

    Elliebelly Junior Member

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    You mean, for example, someone applying after the prelim. year in surgery?
     
  22. neutropeniaboy

    neutropeniaboy Blasted ENT Attending

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elliebelly:
    <strong>You mean, for example, someone applying after the prelim. year in surgery?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be an example of a US grad...it's anyone who has already been graduated...working or not.
     
  23. Airborne

    Airborne Senior Member

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    I agree with Arthur V -

    One of the advantages of graduating after my "entering class" (due to my intermitting for grad school) is that you get to see what fields and where all of your classmates end up (many of whom are willing to share board scores, clinical grades, etc). One of the "success" stories (for lack of a better word) during my former class' match day was someone who had marginal board scores, did OK during the pre-clinical years, but got along well in 3rd year, was more mature than many (most?) students and was in general a great person to work with.

    In the end he matched into a combined general surgery/pastics residency - an extremely competitive and very sought after residency.

    I think it goes to show that USMLE's are just that, licensing exams. Althought they are used for screening - in the end, the residency directors are looking for someone that can not only handle the residency (which I think most students can), but more importantly - they are looking for someone who THEY actually would be happy to spend the next 3-7 years with.

    Any thoughts from the more senior people?
     
  24. stamp

    stamp Junior Member

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    That sounds about right.
     
  25. JScrusader

    JScrusader Senior Member

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    For all ENT residents- what appeals to you about the specialty and was research(ENT specific or not) helpful? Thanks
     
  26. JScrusader

    JScrusader Senior Member

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  27. Smurfette

    Smurfette Antagonized by Azrael
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    OK, to revive an old thread....

    I am a med3 who is REALLY interested in ENT. However my board scores are not as high as I would like (significantly below average for those who successfully match, but significantly higher than the unmatched average). I am a good student (don't know my class rank but definitely top third, maybe AOA).

    What can I do to try to ensure I can still get interviews if my score is below a screening cutoff? I want to stay in the midwest (in other words, I am not looking to match to Harvard or Hopkins). Any advice is appreciated, my school has virtually no career planning.

    smurfette
     

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