STEP 1 success and AOA- and how important is class rank?

[njtrimed]

These threads are probably a dime a dozen here, but I'm a "new" M1 and haven't Been on this forum much. How many of you who scored well enough to match in most specialties are also AOA? We weren't supposed to be ranked until January, but we are anyway. I was below average on my first exam but scored well on the most recent one. My understanding is that Step 1 performance is key in my success, but I'm also a bit concerned about barely making "average" overall. We've been told that P = MD, and I'm not gunning for derm, but I'd like to think that when I want to apply for ENT or surgery, I'm not kidding myself. I'm stepping up my game and hoping to remain in the top percentile from now on, but how important is that for most specialities?

More importantly, how did your status within your class equate to step scores? I bought my subscription to firecracker after my mediocre result on the first exam, and I am up to date now. I just hate feeling like being a human being and adjusting to med school might have hurt my chances of matching into anything but family medicine in rural XYZ. Suggestions?

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[.hematoma.]

Look at the NRMP data. TL;DR: being AOA helps, but not being AOA doesn't hurt your chances.

 

[cbrons]

Three Weeks Study for the FM-kings under the sky,
Seven Weeks for the Ortho-lords in their halls of bone,
Nine Weeks for Plastics Men doomed to die,
One Week for the Dark Lord on his dark throne.
In the Land of USMLEs where the Score Reports lie.

One Test to rule them all, One Test to find them,
One Test to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
In the Land of USMLEs where the Score Reports lie.



Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Control what you can control and things will turn out just fine.

 

[laricb]

These threads are probably a dime a dozen here, but I'm a "new" M1 and haven't Been on this forum much. How many of you who scored well enough to match in most specialties are also AOA? We weren't supposed to be ranked until January, but we are anyway. I was below average on my first exam but scored well on the most recent one. My understanding is that Step 1 performance is key in my success, but I'm also a bit concerned about barely making "average" overall. We've been told that P = MD, and I'm not gunning for derm, but I'd like to think that when I want to apply for ENT or surgery, I'm not kidding myself. I'm stepping up my game and hoping to remain in the top percentile from now on, but how important is that for most specialities?

More importantly, how did your status within your class equate to step scores? I bought my subscription to firecracker after my mediocre result on the first exam, and I am up to date now. I just hate feeling like being a human being and adjusting to med school might have hurt my chances of matching into anything but family medicine in rural XYZ. Suggestions?

Everything counts class rank, Step 1 and 2, LOR, and Personnel Statement. Just do your best and things will work out. If you can't achieve those specialties, then it wasn't meant to be...

 

[Anicetus]

These threads are probably a dime a dozen here, but I'm a "new" M1 and haven't Been on this forum much. How many of you who scored well enough to match in most specialties are also AOA? We weren't supposed to be ranked until January, but we are anyway. I was below average on my first exam but scored well on the most recent one. My understanding is that Step 1 performance is key in my success, but I'm also a bit concerned about barely making "average" overall. We've been told that P = MD, and I'm not gunning for derm, but I'd like to think that when I want to apply for ENT or surgery, I'm not kidding myself. I'm stepping up my game and hoping to remain in the top percentile from now on, but how important is that for most specialities?

More importantly, how did your status within your class equate to step scores? I bought my subscription to firecracker after my mediocre result on the first exam, and I am up to date now. I just hate feeling like being a human being and adjusting to med school might have hurt my chances of matching into anything but family medicine in rural XYZ. Suggestions?

Old timers say it doesn't matter much. Nowadays it is mattering more, specifically for lower tier MD schools if you're trying to apply for competitive residencies.

 

[Señor S]

I just hate feeling like being a human being and adjusting to med school might have hurt my chances of matching into anything but family medicine in rural XYZ. Suggestions?

First off, stop being so dramatic.

I was top 20% and AOA, 250 on Step 1. My grades steadily went up over the first 2 years. I felt then, and still feel now, that there's a strong correlation between Step 1 and grades. The correlation certainly isn't linear though. Also being at the top of the class is no doubt harder at a top school, so if you're at one I wouldn't worry about it much. In fact, even if you're not I wouldn't worry too much; sounds like you're doing your best, getting the hang of things and safely passing everything.

Also there's a big difference between ENT and "surgery" assuming that means General Surgery, which is of middling competitiveness and is something most US MDs can match assuming they pass everything on the first try.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

AOA criteria varies between schools. Mine only uses academic metrics so I just tried my hardest for class which resulted in honoring everything and set me up well for Step 1 success.

Work hard every day if you want AOA. You have to try for #1 every day because plenty of other people will be too.

 

[WedgeDawg]

General Surgery
Percentage of matched applicants who were AOA: 17.4%
Percentage of applicants with AOA who matched: >99%
Percentage of applicants without AOA who matched: 82%
Median Step 1 score for matched applicants: 235

ENT
Percentage of matched applicants who were AOA: 44.7%
Percentage of applicants with AOA who matched: 96%
Percentage of applicants without AOA who matched: 84%
Median Step 1 score for matched applicants: 248

 

[Cognovi]

Look at the NRMP data. TL;DR: being AOA helps, but not being AOA doesn't hurt your chances.

This can't be true logically.

 

[Psai]

This can't be true logically.

Makes sense to me. Being AOA might help you match to a better place but not being AOA won't stop you from matching.

 

[Cognovi]

Makes sense to me. Being AOA might help you match to a better place but not being AOA won't stop you from matching.

You're saying something different. The first part of your statement is that AOA improves your chances of matching to a more desired program, which implies that not-AOA harms your chances of matching to a more desired program. The second part of your statement is that not-AOA does not necessarily mean no-match, which implies that it is possible to match at all without AOA.

Nobody disputes that it is possible to match into a specialty without AOA. The question here is does not-AOA decrease your chances of matching at all, or matching to a desired program, compared to AOA. If AOA helps, then logically non-AOA hurts.

 

[cbrons]

Everything counts class rank, Step 1 and 2, LOR, and Personnel Statement. Just do your best and things will work out. If you can't achieve those specialties, then it wasn't meant to be...

No, this is school-dependent. AOA is not determined the same way at every school. At some schools, pre-clinical grades are not factored into AOA determination (or even class rank) at all.

 

[Cara Delevingne]

You're saying something different. The first part of your statement is that AOA improves your chances of matching to a more desired program, which implies that not-AOA harms your chances of matching to a more desired program. The second part of your statement is that not-AOA does not necessarily mean no-match, which implies that it is possible to match at all without AOA.

Nobody disputes that it is possible to match into a specialty without AOA. The question here is does not-AOA decrease your chances of matching at all, or matching to a desired program, compared to AOA. If AOA helps, then logically non-AOA hurts.

I like to think having AOA for residency applications is like having a publication for med school applications - it certainly helps for the top programs, but not having it won't stop you from being accepted.

Yes, AOA helps quite a bit, but don't stress if you don't have it because you won't be excluded from the match.

Regarding your actual post about everything being so black-and-white, yes non-AOA hurts your chances of matching compared to having AOA status (or, the opposite being that having AOA helps your chances). Did you really need that spelled out for you?

 

[Psai]

You're saying something different. The first part of your statement is that AOA improves your chances of matching to a more desired program, which implies that not-AOA harms your chances of matching to a more desired program. The second part of your statement is that not-AOA does not necessarily mean no-match, which implies that it is possible to match at all without AOA.

Nobody disputes that it is possible to match into a specialty without AOA. The question here is does not-AOA decrease your chances of matching at all, or matching to a desired program, compared to AOA. If AOA helps, then logically non-AOA hurts.

Does it feel good to purposefully act like you don't understand just so you can be a pretentious dbag

 

[Cognovi]

It feels good to offer alternative perspectives to SDN tropes. Sometimes data need to be spelled out without the sugar coating.

1. Most applicants are not AOA.
2. Most applicants match.
3. Most matched applicants are not AOA.
4. A greater proportion of matched applicants are AOA than the proportion for unmatched applicants.
5. Applicants who are not AOA have a lower chance of matching than applicants who are AOA.

 

[Anicetus]

No, this is school-dependent. AOA is not determined the same way at every school. At some schools, pre-clinical grades are not factored into AOA determination (or even class rank) at all.

It is also school dependent that determines the value of being AOA. Non AOA from Harvard vs an AOA from low tier med school that opened 4 years ago vs a non AOA from that same low tier med school. Guess who gets thrown out first of those 3 applicants at the competitive residencies.

 

[cbrons]

It is also school dependent that determines the value of being AOA. Non AOA from Harvard vs an AOA from low tier med school that opened 4 years ago vs a non AOA from that same low tier med school. Guess who gets thrown out first of those 3 applicants at the competitive residencies.

Orange juice is tasty. I like to drink it for breakfast. Sometimes I like it during the day too.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Pffttt... buncha nerds bickering over dumb ****.

What else is new on SDN?!

 

[njtrimed]

First off, stop being so dramatic.

I was top 20% and AOA, 250 on Step 1. My grades steadily went up over the first 2 years. I felt then, and still feel now, that there's a strong correlation between Step 1 and grades. The correlation certainly isn't linear though. Also being at the top of the class is no doubt harder at a top school, so if you're at one I wouldn't worry about it much. In fact, even if you're not I wouldn't worry too much; sounds like you're doing your best, getting the hang of things and safely passing everything.

Also there's a big difference between ENT and "surgery" assuming that means General Surgery, which is of middling competitiveness and is something most US MDs can match assuming they pass everything on the first try.

Thanks. I'm good; I am safely passing everything. It's hard to keep the bigger picture in perspective when I got a 92 on an exam and the average was a 95.7, but I guess as long as I'm learning the material well enough to do well on Step 1, I shouldn't worry too much.

 

[repititionition]

I was a steadily unspectacular pre-clinical student (roughly middle of the class). I focused on step 1 resources throughout M1 and M2 and landed safely in the 250s.

Understanding >>> Memorizing.

 

[intheworkings]

Anyone know how AOA helps in terms of getting into residency? Our school does not factor step 1 for it. Counts M1-M3 grades.

 

[jw3600]

I was a steadily unspectacular pre-clinical student (roughly middle of the class). I focused on step 1 resources throughout M1 and M2 and landed safely in the 250s.

Understanding >>> Memorizing.

Bruh, step 1 is memorizing.

 

[njtrimed]

Anyone know how AOA helps in terms of getting into residency? Our school does not factor step 1 for it. Counts M1-M3 grades.

At my school, you can get into "junior AOA" or "senior AOA." Junior AOA is based only on grades from M1-M2. The top 25% of the class is eligible for nomination, but only 15% are elected. Senior AOA factors in grades from M1-M3. I think AOA is pretty critical for certain subspecialties, like derm, plastics, and ENT, but otherwise isn't so important as long as you do well on Step 1 and have great letters of recommendation. The breakdown puts class rank at around #7-8 on the list of factors that play into residency selection.

 

[intheworkings]

Without starting a new thread, what do people think about the importance of AOA vs GHHS? Same importance for residency or not so much?

 

[username456789]

Without starting a new thread, what do people think about the importance of AOA vs GHHS? Same importance for residency or not so much?

AOA > > > > > GHHS

 

[Jabbed]

AOA > > > > > GHHS

AOA > > > > > > > > > > > > GHHS

 

[intheworkings]

AOA > > > > > > > > > > > > GHHS

Lol, thanks!