Step 2 scores?? Chance at ophtho?

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OphthoGirl08

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I just got my step 2 scores back and I got a 245/99. I go to an osteopathic school. I only have an abstract published and a poster presentation. Do you think I have a good chance at matching allopathic ophtho? And are there any programs that anyone knows of that is DO friendly?

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I just got my step 2 scores back and I got a 245/99. I go to an osteopathic school. I only have an abstract published and a poster presentation. Do you think I have a good chance at matching allopathic ophtho? And are there any programs that anyone knows of that is DO friendly?

Your score is fine. Your research experience sounds about average. Being female will help, believe it or not, as many residency programs (like medical schools) look to balance male/female and there tend to be fewer female applicants. You will, however, be at a disadvantage as a DO applying to allopathic residencies. That's not to say you can't do it. I personally know multiple DO ophthalmologists. I would simply recommend applying broadly. You should be fine. :thumbup:
 
Don't forget that there are good Osteopathic Ophthalmology residencies as well. PCOM has a relationship with Wills... and then there's the Detroit Osteopathic Ophthalmology Consortium (which I think is through MSUCOM).

You're actually at an advantage as you can apply to both DO and MD residencies; whereas MDs are limited to strictly allopathic. You can also choose to be boarded by the Osteopathic Board, which has an easier exam (much lower than a 30% fail rate).
 
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Don't forget that there are good Osteopathic Ophthalmology residencies as well. PCOM has a relationship with Wills... and then there's the Detroit Osteopathic Ophthalmology Consortium (which I think is through MSUCOM).

True. I wasn't suggesting the the OP not apply to osteopathic residencies. Just responding to the inquiry about allopathic.

You're actually at an advantage as you can apply to both DO and MD residencies; whereas MDs are limited to strictly allopathic. You can also choose to be boarded by the Osteopathic Board, which has an easier exam (much lower than a 30% fail rate).

Maybe the latter is an advantage, but certainly not the former. Yes, you can apply to both osteopathic and allopathic residencies, but the former are much fewer in number and you are still at a significant disadvantage over allopathic applicants for the latter. Overall, a DO is still at a disadvantage when it comes to residency application, unfortunately.
 
How was your step 1? Was it around the national average for ophtho (237)? I would think that the step 1 would be a more important factor than the step 2 score as not all applicants have submitted a step 2 score with their CAS application.
 
How was your step 1? Was it around the national average for ophtho (237)? I would think that the step 1 would be a more important factor than the step 2 score as not all applicants have submitted a step 2 score with their CAS application.

agreed. Although I have seen average/below average step 1 be balanced out by a stellar step 2. All depends on the rest of the application.
 
is step 2 and 3 a contributing factor for fellowships? i know this has been addressed before, but i assume less of a factor as OKAPs...
 
agreed. Although I have seen average/below average step 1 be balanced out by a stellar step 2. All depends on the rest of the application.

could you please tell me what is considered a stellar score?

i'm a DO, but i got a 230/99 on Step 1 and i plan to take step 2 next year. what score would you suggest to balance out my step 1?

thank you!
 
Enough sugar coating. I believe it is very tough for DO applicants to match in allopathic programs. Has it been done - yes, but it is very rare.

Why? There are hundreds of allopathic applicants that meet the averages and have outstanding CVs. Most programs can interview about 60 applicants to find their 3 future residents. Therefore, most programs will not interview DO applicants no matter what the step 1 or step 2 score is.

Still I do feel being a DO would probably be better than being an FMG. Finally, I disagree with the male vs female comments above. Most programs simply try to get the best people.
 
What are my chances as a DO student in the allopathic match?

step 1 = 242
G.P.A. = 3.4
M.S.
Research = none
 
< 3% chance in my opinion.

I interviewed at several top programs and several second tier programs and some average programs - I saw zero DO applicants at any of my interviews. So your chances would be zero at all of these programs.

You would not be invited for an interview at my program. I am sure you are a good doctor and will make a tremendous ophthalmologist. The problem is that there are hundreds allopathic applicants too with equal / better stats.

You may increase your chances to above 3% with an away elective at a particular program (this may increase the chances of obtaining an interview at this program).

Am I missing something? What is wrong with the DO ophthalmology residency spots?
 
What is wrong with the DO ophthalmology residency spots?

I wonder the same thing. I don't know anything about osteopathic residencies. Do they not provide the same level and quality of training as allopathic residencies?
 
nothing wrong w/ quality, but rather not enough spots. there's only 11 programs and they take 1-2 resident per year. so roughly, there's only 11 spots per year. so it's pretty dang competitive as well....
 
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<3% chance? That is rather paradoxical to recent data, right?

Maybe I am missing something----2011 avg Step 1 score was 237, my score = 242. This means I scored higher than at least 50% of those who matched. I admit, my score is not too impressive, I am a DO student (which is regarded slightly better than an FMG in the allopathic match), but <3%?

Is it appropriate to compare the optho match to rads or neurosurgery or ENT (specialties with similar mean step 1 scores)? That is, 2011 match data shows that 240 out of 241 applicants matched in diagnostic rads with a step1 score b/w 241-250. 37 out of 39 matched into neurosurgery. 67 out of 77 matched into ENT.

Granted the data is for allopathic students...
 
I wonder the same thing. I don't know anything about osteopathic residencies. Do they not provide the same level and quality of training as allopathic residencies?


~11 DO spots in optho. ~460 MD spots in optho.

No DO optho spots south of Ohio.

I would like to match into an optho spot near my home/family (Florida) just as I chose to go to the DO school 1 mile from my home.
 
<3% chance? That is rather paradoxical to recent data, right?

No, because you are to a DO...he's saying its extremely hard to get into a MD ophtho residency as a DO and I agree with him...almost impossible from my experience because of the stigma with being DO/FMG

The match is not based solely on your USMLE score.
 
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As Eye Cutter said, USMLE is not the only factor in matching for ANY specialty. If fact, I feel applicants fixate on it too much. For the applicants out there, don't rest too much on your 260 at the interview &#8211; it is not a golden ticket- the guy with a 220 might take your spot if they seem like more of a team player. Programs that fixate on step 1 too much miss out on quality applicants. As I have said before, when I review an application, a 230 is no different than a 260. I look at med school, letters, personal statement, research, clinical grades........ To stress my point, med school is a big deal in ophthalmology as it can set up all of the rest. DO applicants will not be able to build the same application as someone from Bascom, Wilmer, Iowa, Michigan, Wash U by definition.

I encountered likely 200+ applicants during interview season when I applied. I saw zero DO applicants. I saw about five FMGs - and typically all of these had a connection to the program that was granting them an interview (they were there doing research, they were already trained in ophthalmology and were doing fellowships in peds or neuro-op in the US).

When I have reviewed applications for residency, 15-20% are from FMGs. 5% are from DO applicants. Some of these FMGs / DOs have USMLE scores of 230-260. Big deal. There are about 400-500 US applicants with the same scores and equal if not better secondary activities / better letters/ better research credentials.

The bottom line is that US allopathic ophthalmology programs have plenty of qualified US trained applicants from allopathic medical schools. If you do not fit this mold, you better have some unique connection to a program.
 
<3% chance? That is rather paradoxical to recent data, right?

Maybe I am missing something----2011 avg Step 1 score was 237, my score = 242. This means I scored higher than at least 50% of those who matched. I admit, my score is not too impressive, I am a DO student (which is regarded slightly better than an FMG in the allopathic match), but <3%?

Is it appropriate to compare the optho match to rads or neurosurgery or ENT (specialties with similar mean step 1 scores)? That is, 2011 match data shows that 240 out of 241 applicants matched in diagnostic rads with a step1 score b/w 241-250. 37 out of 39 matched into neurosurgery. 67 out of 77 matched into ENT.

Granted the data is for allopathic students...

I think your chances are better than 3% as I believe the match rate for FMGs is around 20%-25%. Regardless you are at a disadvantage being a DO. The point is, there are more than enough qualified MD students to fill every ophtho spot. If you're an FMG or a DO you need to show the programs that you are better than your MD counterparts. Your scores are okay but your lack of research doesn't help you.
 
Any DO friendly allopathic programs in the SOUTH (SC, AL, GA, NC, VA, LA, FL)?

Any community programs that tend to be less competitive?
 
I think your chances are better than 3% as I believe the match rate for FMGs is around 20%-25%. Regardless you are at a disadvantage being a DO. The point is, there are more than enough qualified MD students to fill every ophtho spot. If you're an FMG or a DO you need to show the programs that you are better than your MD counterparts. Your scores are okay but your lack of research doesn't help you.

It is 6%.

http://www.sfmatch.org/residency/ophthalmology/index.htm
 

These figures don't represent the match rate. They represent the percentage that each group makes up among the pool that matched. In other words, 88% isn't the match rate for U.S. seniors. Rather, U.S. seniors make up 88% of those who matched. Notice the percentages always adds up to 100%.

The SF Match used to post the actual match rates for each group but they stopped doing so several years ago.
 
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sorry for posting this here but it is my first post :)
do somebody have informations about IMGs matched in ophthalmology in 2010 , how many applied and how many of them were accepted .
thnx :)
 
No doubt this theme has been repeated ad nauseam, but you need to take all this advice with a monumental grain of salt. I mean this in the best of all possible ways, but you already know that ceteris paribus you are at the bottom of the preference list -- second only to FMGs, which of course means your chances of matching are worse, and you can probably throw Bascolm out the window. What you really need to do, is scour all 114 ophtho programs with uptodate web pages of "current residents". Find the DOs that matched at allopathic residencies and hit them upside their heads with e-mails till one of them hollas back. For ex: There is an ohio-state- trained DO who is now a retina fellow at the same institution. He would be a good guy to talk to. Very few of us sit on admissions committees and we are most likely working with the same info to which you have access already. Hope this helps

My 2 cents
 
Any DO friendly allopathic programs in the SOUTH (SC, AL, GA, NC, VA, LA, FL)?

Any community programs that tend to be less competitive?

1. You can fixate on statistics, but you are at a great disadvantage as a DO applicant to allopathic residencies for the numerous reasons listed above.

2. You may convince yourself that you are above the FMGs on the totem pole but take a step back and think about the credentials of the FMGs that do match. In general, they are not "fifth pathway" applicants but rather often accomplished ophthalmologists in their countries of origin, who have toiled for years as a research fellow in order to obtain a chance to do residency and become board-certified and practice in this country. One of the FMG residents at my home program when I was in medical school helped write some sections in the BCSC series, for example.

3. Please do your homework about the field of ophthalmology. Learn to spell it. Asking about "optho" and being an "optho to be" and other such ignorance is not well-regarded, and frankly, offensive to the multitude of better qualified applicants who have achieved success throughout their academic career. Community-based programs? This isn't general surgery. How do you envision a private practice having enough patient and surgical volume to support a resident, much less a few residents? The vast majority of ophthalmology residencies will be associated with academic institutions, in my experience. There are some fellowships that are more "community-based," but you will find that fellowship match is a much different beast than residency match.

I wish you the best, but I encourage you to expand your experience with the field of ophthalmology and be the best educated and best-spoken applicant you can be. Being a DO applicant, if an allopathic program senses anything amiss with your application, I'm sure they won't hesitate to rank MD applicants above yours.

Good luck!
 
I just got my step 2 scores back and I got a 245/99. I go to an osteopathic school. I only have an abstract published and a poster presentation. Do you think I have a good chance at matching allopathic ophtho? And are there any programs that anyone knows of that is DO friendly?

As has been said before, your chances are not good. The step 2 score will not matter.

What you need to do is have your well-known chairman start making strong phone calls on your behalf. If that is not a possibility, you are highly unlikely to get an interview let alone match.
 
You may convince yourself that you are above the FMGs on the totem pole but take a step back and think about the credentials of the FMGs that do match. In general, they are not "fifth pathway" applicants but rather often accomplished ophthalmologists in their countries of origin, who have toiled for years as a research fellow in order to obtain a chance to do residency and become board-certified and practice in this country.

I have noticed this as well. Over the last couple of years, my program has interviewed 2 or 3 FMGs and they were all very accomplished, with high USMLE scores, years of research and multiple publications under their belts. Conversely, no osteopaths have been interviewed as far as I can remember.
 
Please do your homework about the field of ophthalmology. Learn to spell it. Asking about "optho" and being an "optho to be" and other such ignorance is not well-regarded, and frankly, offensive to the multitude of better qualified applicants who have achieved success throughout their academic career.

Settle down Beavis. You do realize that the use of "optho" is quite common amongst these forums? Your rant makes you sound like a bit of DB. Just saying...
 
I dunno dude, PDs kinda hate it when applicants misspell ophthalmology. It legitimately may make the difference b/w being invited for an interview and not, because everyone's stats are so good on average.
 
Settle down Beavis. You do realize that the use of "optho" is quite common amongst these forums? Your rant makes you sound like a bit of DB. Just saying...

It may be common among the laymen in the community but spelling ophtho or ophthalmology without the "h" wrong is a sure ticket to a declined interview or a really bad experience during an interview. Believe it or not, not knowing how to properly spell the full name or even the abbreviated name may indicate to a lot of ophthalmology residents and attendings that you do not know the differences between optometry and ophthalmology. If you use the incorrect spellings and abbreviations in non-medical communication, that's probably ok because these days the average person on the internet can't spell to save their life. If you're talking to medical professionals, though, it makes it seem as if you're not quite sure what you're referring.

As another example, imagine if you were to refer to an internist, or an IM attending, as an intern. Likewise, how do you think a psychiatrist would respond if you referred to him or her as a psychologist. If you are applying to ophthalmology and can't even spell it properly, do you really think a PD would give you an interview?
 
It may be common among the laymen in the community but spelling ophtho or ophthalmology without the "h" wrong is a sure ticket to a declined interview or a really bad experience during an interview. Believe it or not, not knowing how to properly spell the full name or even the abbreviated name may indicate to a lot of ophthalmology residents and attendings that you do not know the differences between optometry and ophthalmology. If you use the incorrect spellings and abbreviations in non-medical communication, that's probably ok because these days the average person on the internet can't spell to save their life. If you're talking to medical professionals, though, it makes it seem as if you're not quite sure what you're referring.

As another example, imagine if you were to refer to an internist, or an IM attending, as an intern. Likewise, how do you think a psychiatrist would respond if you referred to him or her as a psychologist. If you are applying to ophthalmology and can't even spell it properly, do you really think a PD would give you an interview?

This is not a professional setting. And everything you just mentioned could earn you the title Captain Obvious... Or Dr. Captain Obvious. ;)
 
This is not a professional setting. And everything you just mentioned could earn you the title Captain Obvious... Or Dr. Captain Obvious. ;)

Oh look snarky comment by med student trying to be cool. Good job bro, you sure showed me.
 
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