step 3 prior to fellowship?

[suckerfree]

do i need to have step 3 completed prior to application for a fellowship in surgical pathology?

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[yaah]

Depends on whether you need a full medical license to do your fellowship (you need step III results in order to get your license). Some surg path fellowships are accredited which means you can work on an educational (residency-type) license.

It is kind of a silly question to ask though. Just take the freaking test as soon as you can and get it over with. Putting it off longer just increases the pain, and you will get busier and busier as your training goes on.

 

[exPCM]

In most states you have 7 years after passing step 1 in order to pass both step 2 and 3. If you do not complete this within 7 years you can not get a license in most states.
Here is a summary:
http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html
In Michigan they actually have a 5 year limit.

 

[Gene_]

Our institution requires Step 3 be completed before fellowship. This is too late for the OP, but as yaah said, you should do Step 1 in your first year of residency.

 

[suckerfree]

is it disadvantageous to not have step 3 results prior to fellowship application?

I assume that surgical pathology fellowship application is done around the end of the 2nd year/beginning of the third year. If I take step 3 in the 4th year, does that put me at a disadvantage for applying to the fellowships?

 

[Gene_]

is it disadvantageous to not have step 3 results prior to fellowship application?

Since we require it before fellowship, I am pretty sure that nobody would be offered a fellowship position without Step 3 results first. In the past, one fellowship program here was burned by giving a position to someone that later failed Step 3.

I don't think anyone here will tell you it is a good idea to put off Step 3 until
4th year. It is a bad idea to put it off until 2nd year.

 

[2121115]

At our program, it is mandatory to have passed (not just taken) Step 3 by the end of first year. No exceptions.

In reality, the sooner the better. Clinical knowledge fades fast.

To answer the OP's question- yes I think it would be a disadvantage if you are applying for a competitive (whatever that may be) surgpath fellowship. Other applicants will all have passed and the program would be taking on an additional risk by selecting someone who did not have results yet. JMO.

 

[HbyHA]

our hospital requires that you pass step 3 prior to being promoted to PGY 3. i can't think of a good reason for putting it off to your second year or later... you're only going to get medically-stupider as you get farther away from medical school!

 

[smellycat]

Yeah just take the exam. A lot of fellowships need a license from the particular state and in order to get that you need step 3.
If the program doesn't need the license then go ahead and delay it I guess. I doubt the programs that don't ask for your state license would need or care about your step 3. But you are doing a disservice to yourself by delaying.

 

[Patho2009]

My sincere advice:

Step 3 has ruined the career of many Pathology residents/fellows. For example, when I was a resident, three of my colleagues couldn't pass step 3 during their residency but two of them did just by the end of their fourth year (took it multiple times and spent their entire time studying only for this exam). The third one left without being able to pass....Later on, my program director decided that all the residents must clear their step 3 by the end of the second year.

Step 3 is not an easy exam..it is even one of the hardest exams I have ever taken (not exaggerating!)..The Pathology Board exams (including CP) are easier! It needs extensive reading and preparation in the time you are always busy in your residency..

Not having step 3 in hand will render your residency useless because you won't be able to get a license and thus you won't be able to sit for your Pathology Board exams or to go for practice...this means that all your professional career is jeopardized.

In some states (like New York State) no license is required for the residents/fellows and most of their fellowships can be joined without step 3. You can go there. However, think to clear step 3 seriously (as a matter of life or death!) for your future, not just for a surgical pathology fellowship in a cheap program where you are "used" for grossing and doing autopsies (as a 1st yr resident), working as a slave trying to satisfy cheap attendings who just care about your slavery labor, not for your education.

 

[ImmaculateTurd]

In most states you have 7 years after passing step 1 in order to pass both step 2 and 3. If you do not complete this within 7 years you can not get a license in most states.

That really is the big issue. I have not heard of fellowship programs actually using the Step 3 score to determine the quality of applicants. So I would worry more about the 7 year limit rule. An exemption can be made for MD/PhD graduates. If you do not fall in this category and you delay taking Step 3 by too long, you might have to take Step 1 and Step 2 again. And remember, this could delay your eligibility to sit for pathology boards. So just take Step 3 soon and pass it. Little need to worry about how a bad score will hurt your fellowship chances.

 

[yaah]

Step 3 is not an easy exam..it is even one of the hardest exams I have ever taken (not exaggerating!)..The Pathology Board exams (including CP) are easier! It needs extensive reading and preparation in the time you are always busy in your residency..

Say what? My studying for step III consisted of buying one big book of questions, and going over the practice scenarios. I probably studied for a total of 40 hours if you add all study time together (and that is a very generous estimate). I got a 230. CP boards, on the other hand, was about 100x more comprehensive and difficult as well as containing far more minutae.

 

[ImmaculateTurd]

Say what? My studying for step III consisted of buying one big book of questions, and going over the practice scenarios. I probably studied for a total of 40 hours if you add all study time together (and that is a very generous estimate). I got a 230. CP boards, on the other hand, was about 100x more comprehensive and difficult as well as containing far more minutae.

Agreed. I studied for a week and got a score in the 220's, which is passing by a comfortable margin.

 

[HbyHA]

Agreed. I studied for a week and got a score in the 220's, which is passing by a comfortable margin.

i studied off and on during a month on Cyto (more off than on, truth be told...) and passed quite comfortably. comparing Step III to the Path boards is laughable.

 

[KeratinPearls]

i studied off and on during a month on Cyto (more off than on, truth be told...) and passed quite comfortably. comparing Step III to the Path boards is laughable.

To those that studied a week and passed the exam, please tell me what drugs u're taking?

Thank you.

 

[Patho2009]

If you delay Step 3 to the end of your residency in Pathology, it definitely becomes more difficult than the Boards.


The people I know who struggled with this exam are much more than those brilliant ones who cleared the exam by studing just for few weeks (or may be few hours!).

Let's close the discussion about this topic...we are already behind these things...


CASE CLOSED///

 

[yaah]

If you delay Step 3 to the end of your residency in Pathology, it definitely becomes more difficult than the Boards.

You can't end the discussion with that post. That is such a farcical statement it has to be a joke.

 

[Nilf]

My sincere advice:



Step 3 is not an easy exam..it is even one of the hardest exams I have ever taken (not exaggerating!)..The Pathology Board exams (including CP) are easier! It needs extensive reading and preparation in the time you are always busy in your residency..

.

I strongly and wholeheartedly disagree with the highlighted statement. Though it is a highly subjective statement, overwhelming majority of AP/CP diplomates will agree that pathology boards are WAY harder to prepare than USMLE step 3.

 

[HbyHA]

To those that studied a week and passed the exam, please tell me what drugs u're taking?

Thank you.

The "I spent four years in medical school studying this bull**** and all i need is a passing score" kind of drugs.

try some, they're great

 

[Gene_]

The "I spent four years in medical school studying this bull**** and all i need is a passing score" kind of drugs.

try some, they're great

+1
You're supposed to learn that stuff in medical school.

 

[2121115]

Step 3 was easy and involved basically no stress. If you have passed Step 2 then Step 3 should be a breeze as it is almost the same information with a few new twists. Get First Aid and a question book, spend a week or two reviewing and then take it and get it over with.

 

[Patrick O]

Say what? My studying for step III consisted of buying one big book of questions, and going over the practice scenarios. I probably studied for a total of 40 hours if you add all study time together (and that is a very generous estimate). I got a 230. CP boards, on the other hand, was about 100x more comprehensive and difficult as well as containing far more minutae.

Agreed....Step III was piss compared to the CP board...I studied step 3 in a half assed approach on weekends predominantly with that USMLEworld site.....

 

[Gyric]

Step 3 harder than CP boards ... wow, that has to be a joke. Like others I read first aid over the weekend before the exam, scored in the 220s-230s, I think; I remember thinking it was the easiest of the three by far. I am sure I could walk in cold right now and pass it. What is the saying, 2 months for step 1, 2 weeks for step 2, a number 2 pencil for step 3? Also, since you have to pass step 3 to take boards and since only like 70% pass CP, it is hard to understand how you could think this was an easier test.

 

[2121115]

Also, since you have to pass step 3 to take boards and since only like 70% pass CP, it is hard to understand how you could think this was an easier test.

Isn't it closer to 90% for first time test takers?

 

[exPCM]

Isn't it closer to 90% for first time test takers?

Shocker!

Seriously, who here didn't know this?

For the last full 5 year reporting in ABP newsletter (2001-2005) the pass rate for first time takers was 76.67% for AP and 74.57% for CP.
http://www.abpath.org/200601newsltr.htm

 

[Pathguy74]

Our institution requires Step 3 be completed before fellowship. This is too late for the OP, but as yaah said, you should do Step 1 in your first year of residency.

Likewise at my spot...just take Step 3 already...this is a no-brainer...get it done!