stigma of mental illness?

[noonday]

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ok.

so i finally have some interviews (one MD, one DO), and i'm starting to freak out about them a bit (but not all that much...). my main dilemma is whether or not to address/discuss my condition.

if it were a "physical" condition in the traditional sense, i know i could talk about it no problem, and it would be seen as something great i was able to overcome. but it's not, and i'm concerned about the stigma of mental illness that may well still exist in the medical community.

the thing is, i had awful grades for a year and a half in college about 12 years ago, and i know i will have to address that. i can chock it up to the deaths of close family, but that's just a small part of it. it was the first major depressive episode that i had, although i had had a relatively severe dysthemia for as far back as i can remember. i didn't admit to being sick that time, and as it tends to, it eventually abated. i had another episode in grad school, but coped outwardly better in terms of grades, and then had another worse one about 5 years ago, which is when i finally admitted that i really had a problem and needed help. there's a big family history of mental illness, lots of depression, addiction, OCD, and some schizophrenia. i think, all in all, my social anxiety and depression was a combo that makes me lucky in comparison.

anyway, i got help. and i haven't had an episode in 5 years. i've been on the brink, but i learned how to recognize the signs of one coming, and i know how to help make it better before i really starts. i do take medication daily, and expect to for the rest of my life. the way i see it, this isn't "mental" any more than diabetes, and the meds are my insulin, so to speak, but i doubt most see it that way. this is a brain chemistry problem, and i'm lucky that a pill every day makes it nearly all better.

so. i'm leaning towards not discussing it at all. it's too risky that it could be seen as a bad thing. let me stress that in no way do i see this as a disability, nor can i see how it would in any way negatively impact my ability to do the work. if anything, i think it sets me up better than many, in that addiction, depression, etc. run at higher rates in doctors, and i already know both my weaknesses and how to compensate, so i think i run a lower risk of falling into those problems once in school, etc.

anyway. just checking what other people think. too risky, yes?

 

[Chinorean]

I would say it's risky--there's too much of a stigma. In general, people don't want to hire those who might be unstable and I don't think medical school is any different. Some may give you a chance and some may decide not too, even if they all feel sympathetic.

Plus, the interview is where they try to decide how "normal" you are.

 

[QuikClot]

I think you should disclose. It explains the gap and, in a way, it is an interviewee's dream issue: it gives you a way to talk about being a patient, about health care issues (like the stigma of mental illness), about overcoming real adversity, rising to a challenge, refusing to give up your dreams, and how you've become in the process a canadiate with a unique experience and set of insights (adding diversity to the class).

 

[pinkey]

too risky, yes?

Think of the interview as a sales pitch with you being the product. Make sure that anything you say is part of that pitch. How would bringing this up help your case?

 

[MrBurns10]

Check your PM box.

 

[etown]

I would say it's risky--there's too much of a stigma. In general, people don't want to hire those who might be unstable and I don't think medical school is any different. Some may give you a chance and some may decide not too, even if they all feel sympathetic.

Plus, the interview is where they try to decide how "normal" you are.

I second that. Sure there is a chance they will look favorably at your overcoming the challenge, but there is also a possibility they will be concerned for your future mental stability. Basically, it is something they could be concerned about, and I would leave it out.

 

[ND2005]

I would say it's too risky.

While med schools and interviewers like a story about someone overcoming personal difficulty and showing dedication to their goal of becoming a doctor, they like their graduation rates more.

A lot of the admissions process is about the schools minimizing their risk of losing a student or having a student graduate with poor credentials/skills. You don't want to give the schools any reason to view you as a risk.

 

[oneaat]

coming from a similar problem - i wouldn't address it if i didn't have to. especially because if someone asks about the grades, you can always say it was from a death in the family, which no one will really question further. bringing up depression could help or it could hurt, but i know it's not a chance i would choose to take. i had a pretty nasty semester that i (truthfully) blamed on over-extending on ECs, while not bringing up that i was also close to suicidal at the time. i'm not ashamed of this history, and i would tell the truth if asked directly, but it's not something i would bring up, because i don't think it has any bearing on what i wil be able to do in my future life.

 

[noonday]

ah, well. seems that yes, best to keep it private. and there'n no way for them to find out, since i've paid for everything out of pocket, and none of it is in any way associated with my insurance or medical record (yes, it's bad, but i even lie to my doc about being on "no medications" when i go in to my MD. i then look up medication interactions or call my psych doc to see if it's ok to take whatever else i'm getting), and get prescriptions filled at different pharmacies so they aren't linked. i guess i've really been that afraid of stigma, and it seems like it's a real fear and not just paranoia.

thanks for the replies. more importantly, thank you to the dozens of people who PM'ed me. i think you all should know that it seems there are more of us out here than any of us realize.

maybe someday we can help to change the way these things are seen. since they are, after all, just like any other medical condition and not, as was thought for a long time, "character" or "moral" flaws.

thank you! be strong! we can, and will, overcome. we have overcome so much already, this is cake.

 

[emgirl]

ah, well. seems that yes, best to keep it private. and there'n no way for them to find out, since i've paid for everything out of pocket, and none of it is in any way associated with my insurance or medical record (yes, it's bad, but i even lie to my doc about being on "no medications" when i go in to my MD. i then look up medication interactions or call my psych doc to see if it's ok to take whatever else i'm getting), and get prescriptions filled at different pharmacies so they aren't linked. i guess i've really been that afraid of stigma, and it seems like it's a real fear and not just paranoia. QUOTE]

Why on earth would you go to lengths like these? It's one thing to keep it private from an adcom, but why would you not share information about prescriptions and mental illness with your doctor? That seems like important information for them to know about. Also, the prescriptions and insurance thing sounds kind of...paranoid- there's no shame in having an illness and your insurance company cannot drop you for being sick. I think there's less stigma than you think about depression, I know lots of people that battle it in all forms but I can understand the perception that adcoms might view it as a liability- to that I have no answer, it seems sad to have to keep quiet about it but I can see why it might be smart.... good luck.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Mental illness does not exist, and in particular depression does not exist.

To be 'depressed' right after close family died is ENTIRELY NORMAL. It is normal to grieve over the dead. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't and pop pills into you.

I know that, subjectively, you might feel absolutely miserable, but it isn't a disease. It's simply the way you feel, and you need to find new joys in your life. Think on the good, the beautiful, things in life.

And cut the pills. They don't help and, if anything, may promote suicidal thoughts and actions, precisely the things that they are supposed to protect you from.

 

[ND2005]

Mental illness does not exist, and in particular depression does not exist.

To be 'depressed' right after close family died is ENTIRELY NORMAL. It is normal to grieve over the dead. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't and pop pills into you.

I know that, subjectively, you might feel absolutely miserable, but it isn't a disease. It's simply the way you feel, and you need to find new joys in your life. Think on the good, the beautiful, things in life.

And cut the pills. They don't help and, if anything, may promote suicidal thoughts and actions, precisely the things that they are supposed to protect you from.

Awesome. What a helpful response.

Are you a scientologist? Is this Tom Cruise?

 

[puppy12]

Awesome. What a helpful response.

Are you a scientologist? Is this Tom Cruise?

darn you, i was just about to post the exact same thing!!!!

mercapto, that was probably the most irresponsible, and quite frankly, stupid, post i have read on sdn. i love how you seem to think you know more than the entire scientific and medical community.

 

[etown]

Tom Cruise.

 

[gdbaby]

You guys are quick!!! Cruise-n it!!!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

darn you, i was just about to post the exact same thing!!!!

mercapto, that was probably the most irresponsible, and quite frankly, stupid, post i have read on sdn. i love how you seem to think you know more than the entire scientific and medical community.

umm, ditto. as someone who's suffered from depression, i'm appalled to see a future health professional express so much ignorance about it.

 

[synapse lapse]

Mental illness does not exist, and in particular depression does not exist.

To be 'depressed' right after close family died is ENTIRELY NORMAL. It is normal to grieve over the dead. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't and pop pills into you.

I know that, subjectively, you might feel absolutely miserable, but it isn't a disease. It's simply the way you feel, and you need to find new joys in your life. Think on the good, the beautiful, things in life.

And cut the pills. They don't help and, if anything, may promote suicidal thoughts and actions, precisely the things that they are supposed to protect you from.

The death wasn't the cause of the depression, I guess you missed that. He is chronically depressive. You can't just fill in activities to compensate for a mizzing enzyme, why could you fill in activities to compensate for abnormal brain biochemistry. Yes you may improve the condition but the underlying cause is still existent. Since health is a state of physical, emotional, and mental well being it is quite clearly not healthy. What are emotions, feelings? They are an emergent property of the biochemical interactions of your mind and the rest of your body. So yes, you can have an emotional disorder, and yes, drugs can help. This is quite obvious. The emperical evidence is overwhelming that psychoactive drugs have benefited numerous people, and if the only problem is a feeling you have, and a drug can make you feel better, isn't that efficacy? Your post is completely idiotic, why go into medicine at all if you ignore scientific facts?

 

[Doctor Bagel]

anyway, i got help. and i haven't had an episode in 5 years. i've been on the brink, but i learned how to recognize the signs of one coming, and i know how to help make it better before i really starts. i do take medication daily, and expect to for the rest of my life. the way i see it, this isn't "mental" any more than diabetes, and the meds are my insulin, so to speak, but i doubt most see it that way. this is a brain chemistry problem, and i'm lucky that a pill every day makes it nearly all better.

so. i'm leaning towards not discussing it at all. it's too risky that it could be seen as a bad thing. let me stress that in no way do i see this as a disability, nor can i see how it would in any way negatively impact my ability to do the work. if anything, i think it sets me up better than many, in that addiction, depression, etc. run at higher rates in doctors, and i already know both my weaknesses and how to compensate, so i think i run a lower risk of falling into those problems once in school, etc.

anyway. just checking what other people think. too risky, yes?

Our histories are different, but I'm in the same place as you in both taking meds and avoiding another episode by what I think of as lots of self nurture. 🙂 I also did some cognitive therapy, which is so helpful because it really does help you recognize that crazy overly-pessimistic self-hating thoughts that trigger bouts of depression.

As for whether or not to disclose, I wouldn't. The bad grades are so long ago that you could explain them as a combination of deaths in the family and poor study habits.

 

[MarzMD]

.......Your post is completely idiotic, why go into medicine at all if you ignore scientific facts?

You should know by now that this is common amongst religious extremists. No amount of evidence can change somenoes mind if they think it is somehow a fact proven by their religion.

 

[synapse lapse]

You should know by now that this is common amongst religious extremists. No amount of evidence can change somenoes mind if they think it is somehow a fact proven by their religion.

I agree with you, but he didn't mention religion in his post so I don't know his reasoning (or lack there of), only that he is incorrect on his assertion.

 

[MarzMD]

I agree with you, but he didn't mention religion in his post so I don't know his reasoning (or lack there of), only that he is incorrect on his assertion.

True, but hanging out in the Lounge makes it clear that religion is a big part of his life. I would be very surprised to find out that his statement was not religiously based.

 

[ND2005]

True, but hanging out in the Lounge makes it clear that religion is a big part of his life. I would be very surprised to find out that his statement was not religiously based.

As does his avatar...

 

[synapse lapse]

True, but hanging out in the Lounge makes it clear that religion is a big part of his life. I would be very surprised to find out that his statement was not religiously based.

Ah I never go to the lounge.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

True, but hanging out in the Lounge makes it clear that religion is a big part of his life. I would be very surprised to find out that his statement was not religiously based.

Oh, he's also the guy who keeps starting the Christian Medical Missionaries threads here... treat then convert! woohoo!!

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

noonday:

Ignore what these people are saying. I know what I am talking about. Depression does not exist. Feelings and thoughts are not merely emergent from brain biochemistry. Nobody really understand how feelings and thoughts are generated and no one understands why people respond differently (often outside of a 'rational' pattern) to the same thing.

Drugs don't work any more than taking cocaine or injecting yourself with caffeine will ease your depression. Depression is the result of life circumstances. You need to change these circumstances, not crudely 'adjust' your brain chemistry with chemicals that do only God knows what. You need to talk about your problems (perhaps with family, friends, etc.) and get to the root of your depression. What is making you so unhappy, so passionless, so without aim in your life? When you find what it is, you either need to fix it or deal with it and accept it as something you cannot change, and move on.

From your posts, I can see that you still have something melancholy within you, that there is a certain sadness that emanates. Apparently those drugs are not working. They will just mess your brain and soon you will be dependent on them and drugged and totally unhappy. Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Cut the pills and talk to someone about your problems. PM me if you like.

 

[MarzMD]

Ah I never go to the lounge.

You are missing out. You seem to like a good debate, and the lounge is the place to do it. It is a breath of fresh air to visit the lounge after seeing the same type of threads being posted over and over on SDN.

 

[tank you]

so i guess psychiatry should be abolished?

 

[gdbaby]

Shouldn't a moderator be watching out for people like the one above? If not for the unbelievably overt religious proselytizing, then AT LEAST for the attempts to diagnose someone's condition (improperly, I might add).

 

[etown]

You should know by now that this is common amongst religious extremists. No amount of evidence can change somenoes mind if they think it is somehow a fact proven by their religion.

I agree. Looks like this Cruise character is headed to UPitt, here's hoping he loses this obtuseness before he counsels patients away from what is, for some, a last resort solution to a life-threatening illness. I love how he uses absurd anecdotal evidence to "prove" his case while ignoring actual scientific studies and empirical evidence. And he's getting his MD/PhD?

 

[synapse lapse]

noonday:

Ignore what these people are saying. I know what I am talking about. Depression does not exist. Feelings and thoughts are not merely emergent from brain biochemistry. Nobody really understand how feelings and thoughts are generated and no one understands why people respond differently (often outside of a 'rational' pattern) to the same thing.

Drugs don't work any more than taking cocaine or injecting yourself with caffeine will ease your depression. Depression is the result of life circumstances. You need to change these circumstances, not crudely 'adjust' your brain chemistry with chemicals that do only God knows what. You need to talk about your problems (perhaps with family, friends, etc.) and get to the root of your depression. What is making you so unhappy, so passionless, so without aim in your life? When you find what it is, you either need to fix it or deal with it and accept it as something you cannot change, and move on.

From your posts, I can see that you still have something melancholy within you, that there is a certain sadness that emanates. Apparently those drugs are not working. They will just mess your brain and soon you will be dependent on them and drugged and totally unhappy. Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Cut the pills and talk to someone about your problems. PM me if you like.

First it is true that our knowledge of brain biochemistry is in its infancy, but the evidence clearly points to a material view of emotion as with other illness. Our current understanding is involving, as it does in all areas of science. Do you have evidence that is contrary to this? I would love to see it. I agree that he needs to evaluate his life and seek hapiness, trying to elimnate those things that cause depression. We all should do this. That does not mean that drugs are not eficacious or even neccesary in some situations. Then you give some idiotic anecdotal account of a child killing his parents 1)without having all the facts and 2)without establishing a causal relationship between whatever unname drugs he was taking and the actions that followed. Let me tell you about some lady on trial here in Texas who read that book the bible went all #%$#$ crazy and chopped her kids into pieces, or the one a few years back that drowned her kids cause God told her to. OP don't get all hopped up on that religious stuff, it will cause you to kill yourself and your family Can you say non sequiter mercaptovizadeh Oh and if you question the efficacy of pyschoactive drugs I think you can easily do a literature search do correct that ignorance.

 

[puppy12]

First it is true that our knowledge of brain biochemistry is in its infancy, but the evidence clearly points to a material view of emotion as with other illness. Our current understanding is involving, as it does in all areas of science. Do you have evidence that is contrary to this? I would love to see it. I agree that he needs to evaluate his life and seek hapiness, trying to elimnate those things that cause depression. We all should do this. That does not mean that drugs are not eficacious or even neccesary in some situations. Then you give some idiotic anecdotal account of a child killing his parents 1)without having all the facts and 2)without establishing a causal relationship between whatever unname drugs he was taking and the actions that followed. Let me tell you about some lady on trial here in Texas who read that book the bible went all #%$#$ crazy and chopped her kids into pieces, or the one a few years back that drowned her kids cause God told her to. OP don't get all hopped up on that religious stuff, it will cause you to kill yourself and your family Can you say non sequiter mercaptovizadeh Oh and if you question the efficacy of pyschoactive drugs I think you can easily do a literature search do correct that ignorance.

I wouldn't even waste your time AP...

 

[noonday]

noonday:

Ignore what these people are saying. I know what I am talking about. Depression does not exist. Feelings and thoughts are not merely emergent from brain biochemistry. Nobody really understand how feelings and thoughts are generated and no one understands why people respond differently (often outside of a 'rational' pattern) to the same thing.

Drugs don't work any more than taking cocaine or injecting yourself with caffeine will ease your depression. Depression is the result of life circumstances. You need to change these circumstances, not crudely 'adjust' your brain chemistry with chemicals that do only God knows what. You need to talk about your problems (perhaps with family, friends, etc.) and get to the root of your depression. What is making you so unhappy, so passionless, so without aim in your life? When you find what it is, you either need to fix it or deal with it and accept it as something you cannot change, and move on.

From your posts, I can see that you still have something melancholy within you, that there is a certain sadness that emanates. Apparently those drugs are not working. They will just mess your brain and soon you will be dependent on them and drugged and totally unhappy. Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Cut the pills and talk to someone about your problems. PM me if you like.

oh my.

dear, when i was your age, i thought my problems were circumstantial or related to my outlook, or both. and i fought the idea that i was ill. i did that for years and years. i'm not talking about feeling sad. i'm not talking about not being able to frolic in the park joyfully. i'm talking about months at a time where i was so physically affected that i couldn't move. just couldn't move, my body wouldn't do it. or couldn't sleep. i once went 12 days without any sleep. not by choice. i'm talking about feeling nothing. i like it when i feel sad, because it's an emotion and there were periods where i felt entirely frozen and numb for up to a year. where i would discover i was crying after i had been for minutes already and have no feeling as to why it was happening.

and i thought that if i cheered up or moved or tried something new, i'd feel better. and i never did. i was running away from something that would always follow me. i had to turn around and stare it back down to stop it from controlling me.

i don't just pop pills. i do talk to someone. i go to therapy twice a week, and have for 5 years. and therapy is hard work. staying healthy is hard work. and it's worth it. and i know it's worth it simply because i can feel that something has worth now, when nothing ever seemed to before. as for the negative press about the drugs, that's in children. adults and children respond differently to things. [edit:add:] and as for suicide being higher amongst people on them, um, dear, suicide is MUCH higher amongst depressed people in general. it's a side effect of the illness. the drugs won't work well for everyone, and some may, sadly, suicide. but the rates are LOWER than those of the unmedicated.

i'm not, nor have i ever been, except in those major episodes, passionless and without aim. they are the anti-me. and they fall like a flash rainstorm in the winter desert, with little warning. the drugs stop the thunder and lightning, and the therapy helps me see farther in the sky to see if something's coming. and i get to be the me i know i am, all the time, without fear or clouding. some of us are just a little darker naturally, and that's just my personality. i'm not melancholy.

anyway, i see from your MDapp profile that you had all kinds of positive responses from med schools. this scares me. i fear for your patients. i hope that you open your mind and really think about how judgemental and closed you are. and how you are assuming that everyone is like you, when we are not.

i hope better for you, for your future patients' sakes.

 

[ND2005]

First it is true that our knowledge of brain biochemistry is in its infancy, but the evidence clearly points to a material view of emotion as with other illness. Our current understanding is involving, as it does in all areas of science. Do you have evidence that is contrary to this? I would love to see it. I agree that he needs to evaluate his life and seek hapiness, trying to elimnate those things that cause depression. We all should do this. That does not mean that drugs are not eficacious or even neccesary in some situations. Then you give some idiotic anecdotal account of a child killing his parents 1)without having all the facts and 2)without establishing a causal relationship between whatever unname drugs he was taking and the actions that followed. Let me tell you about some lady on trial here in Texas who read that book the bible went all #%$#$ crazy and chopped her kids into pieces, or the one a few years back that drowned her kids cause God told her to. OP don't get all hopped up on that religious stuff, it will cause you to kill yourself and your family Can you say non sequiter mercaptovizadeh Oh and if you question the efficacy of pyschoactive drugs I think you can easily do a literature search do correct that ignorance.

AP, you don't know the history of psychology like Mercapto does. You're just being glib.

 

[synapse lapse]

oh my.

dear, when i was your age, i thought my problems were circumstantial or related to my outlook, or both. and i fought the idea that i was ill. i did that for years and years. i'm not talking about feeling sad. i'm not talking about not being able to frolic in the park joyfully. i'm talking about months at a time where i was so physically affected that i couldn't move. just couldn't move, my body wouldn't do it. or couldn't sleep. i once went 12 days without any sleep. not by choice. i'm talking about feeling nothing. i like it when i feel sad, because it's an emotion and there were periods where i felt entirely frozen and numb for up to a year. where i would discover i was crying after i had been for minutes already and have no feeling as to why it was happening.

and i thought that if i cheered up or moved or tried something new, i'd feel better. and i never did. i was running away from something that would always follow me. i had to turn around and stare it back down to stop it from controlling me.

i don't just pop pills. i do talk to someone. i go to therapy twice a week, and have for 5 years. and therapy is hard work. staying healthy is hard work. and it's worth it. and i know it's worth it simply because i can feel that something has worth now, when nothing ever seemed to before. as for the negative press about the drugs, that's in children. adults and children respond differently to things. [edit:add:] and as for suicide being higher amongst people on them, um, dear, suicide is MUCH higher amongst depressed people in general. it's a side effect of the illness. the drugs won't work well for everyone, and some may, sadly, suicide. but the rates are LOWER than those of the unmedicated.

i'm not, nor have i ever been, except in those major episodes, passionless and without aim. they are the anti-me. and they fall like a flash rainstorm in the winter desert, with little warning. the drugs stop the thunder and lightning, and the therapy helps me see farther in the sky to see if something's coming. and i get to be the me i know i am, all the time, without fear or clouding. some of us are just a little darker naturally, and that's just my personality. i'm not melancholy.

anyway, i see from your MDapp profile that you had all kinds of positive responses from med schools. this scares me. i fear for your patients. i hope that you open your mind and really think about how judgemental and closed you are. and how you are assuming that everyone is like you, when we are not.

i hope better for you, for your future patients' sakes.

Back to original topic I don't think you should risk exposing it, just say it was death in family/poor study habits, if you get an interview they won't push you harder on it since they already liked what the saw.I'm sorry that you had such a hard time with depression and I am glad you got better 👍

 

[synapse lapse]

Wow I didn't see his mdapps, so sad so much education can go to waste, reminds me of one Dr. Bill Frist.

 

[emgirl]

AP, you don't know the history of psychology like Mercapto does. You're just being glib.

Haha- no one here knows anything about the field compared to Dr Tom Cruise!

 

[synapse lapse]

AP, you don't know the history of psychology like Mercapto does. You're just being glib.

 

[Sundarban1]

Merpsycho scares me

 

[silas2642]

noonday:

Ignore what these people are saying. I know what I am talking about. Depression does not exist. Feelings and thoughts are not merely emergent from brain biochemistry. Nobody really understand how feelings and thoughts are generated and no one understands why people respond differently (often outside of a 'rational' pattern) to the same thing.

Drugs don't work any more than taking cocaine or injecting yourself with caffeine will ease your depression. Depression is the result of life circumstances. You need to change these circumstances, not crudely 'adjust' your brain chemistry with chemicals that do only God knows what. You need to talk about your problems (perhaps with family, friends, etc.) and get to the root of your depression. What is making you so unhappy, so passionless, so without aim in your life? When you find what it is, you either need to fix it or deal with it and accept it as something you cannot change, and move on.

From your posts, I can see that you still have something melancholy within you, that there is a certain sadness that emanates. Apparently those drugs are not working. They will just mess your brain and soon you will be dependent on them and drugged and totally unhappy. Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Cut the pills and talk to someone about your problems. PM me if you like.

Wow. Do you make your idiotic opinions open in all your interviews; if not, I highly suggest that you do, assuming that your profile is real (which I'm suspecting it is not). You're an idiot; stay away from patients.

 

[ND2005]

Wow. Do you make your idiotic opinions open in all your interviews; if not, I highly suggest that you do, assuming that your profile is real (which I'm suspecting it is not). You're an idiot; stay away from patients.

Dropping my scientology jokes for a moment, what scares me is the thought of this guy doing his required 3rd year psych rotation.

 

[Rafa]

I wouldn't bring it up, unless directly asked. It's a part of what makes you *you*, but it's a part in much the same way as diabetes for example, which you mentioned, and you likely wouldn't bring that up in an interview/PS without particular reasons for doing so. Unfortunately, there still is a stigma about MIs, even within the medical community, which is, of course, sadly ironic. Nonetheless, the day will come when MIs are viewed the way most physical disorders are today (no one runs away from people when they hear a person has cancer; no one thinks less of them, etc). Just focus on your application, and on your goals. And take care of yourself. Always.

 

[styx]

Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Um, that's homocide.

 

[SuzieQ3417]

noonday:

Ignore what these people are saying. I know what I am talking about. Depression does not exist. Feelings and thoughts are not merely emergent from brain biochemistry. Nobody really understand how feelings and thoughts are generated and no one understands why people respond differently (often outside of a 'rational' pattern) to the same thing.

Drugs don't work any more than taking cocaine or injecting yourself with caffeine will ease your depression. Depression is the result of life circumstances. You need to change these circumstances, not crudely 'adjust' your brain chemistry with chemicals that do only God knows what. You need to talk about your problems (perhaps with family, friends, etc.) and get to the root of your depression. What is making you so unhappy, so passionless, so without aim in your life? When you find what it is, you either need to fix it or deal with it and accept it as something you cannot change, and move on.

From your posts, I can see that you still have something melancholy within you, that there is a certain sadness that emanates. Apparently those drugs are not working. They will just mess your brain and soon you will be dependent on them and drugged and totally unhappy. Those are quite literally suicide pills. A little boy in North Carolina killed his grandparents in their sleep and burned down their house after he was taking those pills.

Cut the pills and talk to someone about your problems. PM me if you like.

You obviously have never had someone close to you suffer from a chemical imbalance in their brain or attempt/commit suicide. Going to therapy may help some people, but for many therapy is not enough...nor is just "thinking happy thoughts". If only it were that simple. Please stay away from people who are chronically depressed so they can get the help they need.

Edit: So as not to completely take this thread off-topic, OP - I don't think you should disclose your illness. It's a huge risk, and there is definitely a stigma surrounding any chronic illness, but particularly mental. I agree that it would be enough to mention death in the family if they need an explanation for poor grades.

 

[mustangsally65]

It's really sad how much mental conditions aren't recognized as honest problems that can be just as debilitating (or more!) than a "physical" illness.

I spent a large part of my teenage years taking care of an immediate family member with an anxiety disorder, and I've been afraid to mention that in interviews/essays, because people can come at you with "well, if x family member has this disease, then you're related to him/her, and so therefore you are at high risk of having it too." So instead of showing my strengths in caring for someone when I was barely old enough to drive, I'm scared by the same stigmas that keep some of you on this thread from divulging problems you've overcome.

Mental illness is real. Trust me, everyone has at least one form, whether it's extremely mild or extremely severe. Some are in denial about its existance, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Good luck to the OP! perhaps you will be at an interview and get a psychologist/psychiatrist and the subject will come up, and you may feel comfortable enough to discuss your history. However, if it's been that long and you are well-controlled now, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I know that's easier said than done! 😉

 

[jebus]

Noonday, just how important was your history of health problems to your decision to pursue a career in medicine? If it is important, then by all means (carefully!) disclose it and tell your story. If there's a familial history of mental illness you can definitely include that and how that shaped your decision (it's also good because it avoids possibly incriminating yourself).
Mental illness is so much tricker than other problems precisely because there is a societal stigma - I've seen that from working in Neuroscience labs and volunteering in psychiatry departments and from my own familial history with mental illness. If you said "I'm diabetic, do I talk about that?" the answer would be overwhelmingly affirmative - but unfortunately a lot of people group mental illness and "there's something wrong with you!" together because you can't see mental illness as clearly as a ruptured spleen or a gangrenous foot. Someone suffering from mental illness looks ostensibly normal in many eyes. It would be nice to say that adcom members are sensitive to this and can parse the misconceptions appropriately but (as borne by some posts in this discussion) you can't rely on that.
I'm glad that you've found an appropriate treatment regimen (both pharmacological and psychological) and hopefully you also have a strong support group who can help you if they see the warning signs that you are beginning to relapse.

 

[LucidSplash]

Ok, maybe a little of this is rooted in defensiveness after years of being grouped together with those who express views like those of Mercapto but I feel the need to post here to establish (as most of you are hopefully aware) that just having a firm belief in something other than the scientific process (and in my case in addition to the scientific process) does not mean you agree on any level with Mercapto on this issue.

Most of us will probably agree that our society (American culture) in particular is overmedicated. That doesn't mean I (or we) believe that depression doesn't exist or that, further, there can't be an imbalance in brain chemistry in a similar manner to having an imbalance in an an enzyme that processes lactose. I agree with the individual that stated that while we are in the infancy of our knowledge of brain chemistry that doesn't mean that we can't identify when something is off.

I also have a belief in God. Some would say I am a fundamentalist because I believe in something called absolute Truth, I believe in the resurrecting and saving power of Christ, and I believe that there is only one path to God, which is through Christ. I do believe there are many paths to Christ. That's neither here nor there and can be discussed another time in another thread. I state it here in an effort to diffuse a potentially destructive situation.

I believe in both faith healing and science. I believe that God can heal. But I would NEVER fail to act on the behalf of a patient by assuming God would take care of the problem without human hands if he wanted it dealt with. I also work in the toxicology industry. I know the side-effects of the drugs. Because our knowledge of brain chemistry is so limited (even with the vast amount we do know) it is IMPOSSIBLE to design an artificial compound to "fix" an imbalance in the brain. But we can help tip the scales back in the right direction. Of course the benefits of taking medications should always be weighed against the risks; there are DEFINITE risks and not everyone needs medication. But that doesn't mean there aren't ALOT of people that can't benefit from it. God gave us brains of our own and the ability to research and learn in order to help those around us. He doesn't want to fix all the wrongs in the world via the miraculous - how would we serve one another (which is a command from God)?

Because it was mentioned here, I will touch on the subject of Christian medical missions. I do have a desire to do this some day. However, my reasons, as are many others, are rooted in the belief that it is rather difficult for someone to truely and thoroughly evaluate spirituality while they are suffering for treatable illness. Do I think healing people will help bring them closer to God? Yes. Am I willing to share my reasons for helping someone during the treatment phase? Yes. Would I ever withhold treatment or other medical intervention from someone based on their lack of desire to know what I see as Truth? Absolutly NOT. The majority of Christian Medical Missionaries are Christians first privately and Doctors 1st publically. The reasons we are (or want to be in my case) doctors are rooted in our faith but we don't dole out our skills or knowledge to "win converts." Only God can win converts and I strenuously object to anyone that says otherwise.

I have a degree in Biochemistry and a minor in anthropology and I strongly object to the irresponsible postings of Mercapto in this thread. He is, of course, free to express his opinion, and we are free to label it as reprehensible, distasteful, and ugly. But PLEASE, do not group all individuals that have faith in God and Christ as presented in Christian theology and doxology in the same group. Mercaptos comments make as little sense to most Christians as they do to you.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Noonday, don't disclose. You've gotten interviews so obviously they like something 🙂 From what I've seen of your posts, you're quite intelligent and I'm sure you'll wow them otherwise. Thanks for the writeup on harm reduction, that was interesting. However, along that same vein, since you're already involved in this controversial area, talking about mental illness might just add some more red flags to your application. Go through your interview with poise -- if they ask about your undergraduate record, you can mention the deaths and move on... and demonstrate that you've moved on and the experience has given you better coping skills. You'll be fine!

 

[Bluntman]

Sooo what you're saying is you don't believe in psychiatry either?!

lol 😉

Ok, maybe a little of this is rooted in defensiveness after years of being grouped together with those who express views like those of Mercapto but I feel the need to post here to establish (as most of you are hopefully aware) that just having a firm belief in something other than the scientific process (and in my case in addition to the scientific process) does not mean you agree on any level with Mercapto on this issue.

Most of us will probably agree that our society (American culture) in particular is overmedicated. That doesn't mean I (or we) believe that depression doesn't exist or that, further, there can't be an imbalance in brain chemistry in a similar manner to having an imbalance in an an enzyme that processes lactose. I agree with the individual that stated that while we are in the infancy of our knowledge of brain chemistry that doesn't mean that we can't identify when something is off.

I also have a belief in God. Some would say I am a fundamentalist because I believe in something called absolute Truth, I believe in the resurrecting and saving power of Christ, and I believe that there is only one path to God, which is through Christ. I do believe there are many paths to Christ. That's neither here nor there and can be discussed another time in another thread. I state it here in an effort to diffuse a potentially destructive situation.

I believe in both faith healing and science. I believe that God can heal. But I would NEVER fail to act on the behalf of a patient by assuming God would take care of the problem without human hands if he wanted it dealt with. I also work in the toxicology industry. I know the side-effects of the drugs. Because our knowledge of brain chemistry is so limited (even with the vast amount we do know) it is IMPOSSIBLE to design an artificial compound to "fix" an imbalance in the brain. But we can help tip the scales back in the right direction. Of course the benefits of taking medications should always be weighed against the risks; there are DEFINITE risks and not everyone needs medication. But that doesn't mean there aren't ALOT of people that can't benefit from it. God gave us brains of our own and the ability to research and learn in order to help those around us. He doesn't want to fix all the wrongs in the world via the miraculous - how would we serve one another (which is a command from God)?

Because it was mentioned here, I will touch on the subject of Christian medical missions. I do have a desire to do this some day. However, my reasons, as are many others, are rooted in the belief that it is rather difficult for someone to truely and thoroughly evaluate spirituality while they are suffering for treatable illness. Do I think healing people will help bring them closer to God? Yes. Am I willing to share my reasons for helping someone during the treatment phase? Yes. Would I ever withhold treatment or other medical intervention from someone based on their lack of desire to know what I see as Truth? Absolutly NOT. The majority of Christian Medical Missionaries are Christians first privately and Doctors 1st publically. The reasons we are (or want to be in my case) doctors are rooted in our faith but we don't dole out our skills or knowledge to "win converts." Only God can win converts and I strenuously object to anyone that says otherwise.

I have a degree in Biochemistry and a minor in anthropology and I strongly object to the irresponsible postings of Mercapto in this thread. He is, of course, free to express his opinion, and we are free to label it as reprehensible, distasteful, and ugly. But PLEASE, do not group all individuals that have faith in God and Christ as presented in Christian theology and doxology in the same group. Mercaptos comments make as little sense to most Christians as they do to you.

 

[happydays]

Schools will tell you that they will make accomodations for your conditions, if you need any. They inform you of this in the acceptance letter, so I'm sure that there are others like you out there.

 

[JimmyG]

But PLEASE, do not group all individuals that have faith in God and Christ as presented in Christian theology and doxology in the same group. Mercaptos comments make as little sense to most Christians as they do to you.

Thank You, LucidSpash.

Noonday--
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I am very glad that your life is on a good path right now. I know it will be a lifelong battle for you and I just hope you can continue on with only minor bumps in the future... I agree that you should keep the discussion to a minimum in your interview; however, know that in whatever medical field you go into, your battle with depression will only make you a better doctor. Depression is not only seen in the easy confined "psych" population--it is experienced by many patients who are facing health concerns/chronic conditions. You, in your way, will be able to relate to them and treat them better than someone who has not felt the darkness of depression. Good luck to you.