Stony Brook University vs. Queen's University (Canadian MD)

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izzinator64

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Hi all,
Wanted to get some ideas from peeps about my predicament. Any input/further considerations I should be making would be highly appreciated! (Esp from those who choose in general US vs. Canada MD).

I'm an international with a Canadian PR card and have gotten into Stony Brook and Queen's University. I had gone to undergrad in NYS, have been working in basic neuro research (hope to go into neurology/psych/surgery) post grad. Long term plans would mostly be clinical with collab with translational research (have never tried clinical research). I definitely want to continue doing basic research while in med school, but would not mind moving into more clinical research.


Stony Brook University
Pros
  • New LEARN curriculum, people are doing well, high STEP avg (234?)
  • Small-ish class size (~120), new facilities, anecdotes of having great support systems
  • Matches well into NYC hospitals with known good neuro research programs and general great residency programs (Weill, Columbia, NYU, Sinai etc.)
  • Great research affiliates (CSHL, Brookhaven, Mount Sinai) - Option to also specialize with a research project (Scholarly Concentrations)
  • I have a couple of friends attending and overall general friend network/support systems in the NYC/North East area/States

Cons
  • Hefty price tag: $360k USD in loans. Private loans (7-9% monthly APR), not eligible for government loans This is the main deterrent.
  • I would forever be an international: ie. worry about staying in status, working many times as hard to secure a good residency spot with the right visa (H1B vs. J1, etc.). Basically have to deal with US immigration and it's just never been fun.
  • I would most likely lose my Canadian PR, and worst case would have to return to home country (SE Asia)


Queen's University
Pros
  • Clinical teaching focused, well-known within Canada (Rank #4 out of 17).
  • Smaller class size (~105), decent facilities
  • Not quite sure how matching (CaRMS) works as of yet but I haven't heard bad things about Queen's?
  • Family is in Canada (different city though out west)
  • Can get citizenship - yay no more holding a passport/having the rights of a developing country with questionable human rights issues!
  • Substantially cheaper: about less than $170k USD (about 3% monthly APR). Can apply for government loans. Any where I'd be able to pay back loans, but earning potential is higher in US > Canada.

Cons
  • Not a research heavy school
  • Harder to specialize since the job openings are limited by government quotas given how the healthcare system is set up. Again, unsure how the matching/placement works and increase needs for Primary care/Family Medicine
  • I have no/very few current support network/friends at Queen's/around this geographical area/Canada - yes, I'm aware that I'll make some..

Summary: I think I don't have any strong gut feelings from interview days. Was stressed for both (SBU was first one ever and Queen's was MMI which I'd not really prepped for), liked both campuses - both are suburban-ish (can't really gauge difference in clinical rotation hospitals, I think SBH is slightly better). I feel as if opportunities in and after med school at SBU is more and my heart says SBU, but the immigration issues and pricetag is telling me to lean towards Queen's.

Thank you!

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If you want to attend a NYC or NYS residency, I would pick SBU. Since you want to stick to basic science, the research institutions you listed under SBU are fantastic as I'm sure you know. I would weigh the price tag and immigration issues against staying in Canada. I'm not sure how difficult it is to move from Canada to US after residency/attending to practice.

If you have a strong desire to practice in the US or chase an academic career, then paying for SBU may be worth it.
 
Thanks for the input Shirafune!
In talking to people after making this post, I'd say that my heart is for SBU/practicing in the States/academic med.
What I cant gauge is whether I'd be able to handle the risks (long term indebtedness, risk of immigration trouble which I've dealt with, etc.)
 
The cons you listed for Stony Brook would absolutely be deal breakers for me personally. I would not be willing to take out $360k in private loans to attend Stony Brook over an excellent Canadian med school. I would be truly concerned about paying that back especially with the interest rate of private loans. I'm in med school at Mayo Clinic and have met doctors on staff here who went to Queen's for med school (as well as other Canadian schools). It is not easy to become a staff physician/faculty at Mayo Clinic so I don't believe academic medicine/eventually practicing in the US will be closed off. If you do choose Queen's, I would try to connect with alumni who are practicing in academic medicine who may be able to help guide you in terms of your career goals.
 
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Thanks for the input Shirafune!
In talking to people after making this post, I'd say that my heart is for SBU/practicing in the States/academic med.
What I cant gauge is whether I'd be able to handle the risks (long term indebtedness, risk of immigration trouble which I've dealt with, etc.)

As mentioned above, it probably won't be very difficult to practice academic medicine in the future, but getting your foot through the door during medical school and residency can be a great benefit if you are planning to do academics in the US.

I would see if any Canadian physicians have faced immigration difficulties. The price tag is really if you feel that getting into the US ahead of time will make your US academic career much easier.
 
160k is a huge amount of money especially with private loans. I would err on the side of caution and stick with Queen's. I'm also sure Canadian student loans may be more forgiving than the US's. I also think it's really important for you to reach out to internationals at Stony respectively (maybe admissions can help you with that?) and see what it's like as your concerns are very different than just fit or location.
 
160k is a huge amount of money especially with private loans. I would err on the side of caution and stick with Queen's. I'm also sure Canadian student loans may be more forgiving than the US's. I also think it's really important for you to reach out to internationals at Stony respectively (maybe admissions can help you with that?) and see what it's like as your concerns are very different than just fit or location.
That's a great idea, thanks! I sent them an email asking about matching and similar things just now and asking for 4th year contacts. Hopefully they'll get back to me soon.
 
Don't Canadians normally save a lot of money by going to medical school in Canada? Cheaper tuition, health care is provincial, and you won't have to worry too much about the Canadian dollar falling anymore than it has, compared to its US counterpart, over the last 3 years (0.82-0.72). Plenty of Canadian medical grads come back to the US for residency, to make slightly more $$$, depending on specialty.
 
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