straight answer about one year osteo internship....

[BMW19]

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If one was to do a dually accredited residency say in EM (AOA and ACGME) would you still have to do a one year osteopathic internship? Suppose you are not in one of the five states that require it for practice. I have not been able to get a solid answer on this. Maybe it is dependent on the program.

BMW-

 

[OSUdoc08]

If one was to do a dually accredited residency say in EM (AOA and ACGME) would you still have to do a one year osteopathic internship? Suppose you are not in one of the five states that require it for practice. I have not been able to get a solid answer on this. Maybe it is dependent on the program.

BMW-

If the residency is dually accredited, then it would either be a 4-year residency (PGY1-PGY4) OR a 3-year residency (PGY2-PGY3) that requires an internship.

Thus no matter what, you will be doing 4 years if it is accredited by the AOA.

You obviously do not understand the AOA requirement. All AOA EM residencies require 4 total years of training, no matter what state it is in. In order to be board certified through the AOA, you must have completed these 4 years.

The reason for the "5 states rule" is that they require you to be certified by the AOA, even if you have completed an ACGME residency. Other states do not require AOA certification for DO's.

 

[dizzypie]

what r the 5 states? 😱

 

[Doc 2b]

I was told at a recent meeting by a Program Chairman and active member in the AOA HOD that by the time we grad in 2009, we won't have to worry about the internship, he said it's on it's way out.

 

[BMW19]

That would be awesome. I hope you are right


BMW-

I was told at a recent meeting by a Program Chairman and active member in the AOA HOD that by the time we grad in 2009, we won't have to worry about the internship, he said it's on it's way out.

 

[hyperbaric]

Thus no matter what, you will be doing 4 years if it is accredited by the AOA.

This is not always true. Last week a PD from an ACGME residency program spoke to our emergency medicine interest group and he emphasized that when DO students enter the allopathic match, they should look for programs that will be flexible with intern year rotations, so that they could fulfill the requirements of the osteopathic internship. He said that this was possible because the intern year for EM was so similar to the osteopathic internship (thus may not be possible for all specialties) and proceeded to show us the intern year schedule for his MD vs DO interns.

But, hopefully, Doc 2b is correct and we won’t have to worry with the internship at all.

 

[WestcoastMedicine]

Don't forget that allopathic residencies technically do an internship as well. Their first year of residency they are considered "interns" doing all the same scutwork we do during our internship year.

 

[DrMom]

This is not always true. Last week a PD from an ACGME residency program spoke to our emergency medicine interest group and he emphasized that when DO students enter the allopathic match, they should look for programs that will be flexible with intern year rotations, so that they could fulfill the requirements of the osteopathic internship. He said that this was possible because the intern year for EM was so similar to the osteopathic internship (thus may not be possible for all specialties) and proceeded to show us the intern year schedule for his MD vs DO interns.

But, hopefully, Doc 2b is correct and we won’t have to worry with the internship at all.

OSUdoc08 was referring to AOA accredited programs, not ACGME accredited (MD) programs. All AOA accredited EM programs are 4 years. DOs can certainly got to a 3 year ACGME program and try to still meet the requirements of the Osteo intern year.


I'm on an AOA committee that deals with residency programs & I've not heard anything about potentially dropping the intern requirements. There are other residency-related committees, though.

 

[FutureDocDO]

I was told at a recent meeting by a Program Chairman and active member in the AOA HOD that by the time we grad in 2009, we won't have to worry about the internship, he said it's on it's way out.

I hope you're right.

 

[beastmaster]

I'm on an AOA committee that deals with residency programs & I've not heard anything about potentially dropping the intern requirements.

Now you can pass along the rumor, and the other committee members can tell their friends, "I heard at an AOA committee meeting that...."

And it will become a de facto truth 👍

 

[DrMom]

Now you can pass along the rumor, and the other committee members can tell their friends, "I heard at an AOA committee meeting that...."

And it will become a de facto truth 👍

*makes devious plans*
🙂

 

[Vince]

what r the 5 states? 😱

West Virginia, Michigan, Oklahoma, Florida, Pennsylvania

 

[Monty Python]

I was told at a recent meeting by a Program Chairman and active member in the AOA HOD that by the time we grad in 2009, we won't have to worry about the internship, he said it's on it's way out.

If my understanding of the "5 state rule" is correct, it would be irrelevant what the HOD does. The states' internship requirement for state licensure in those 5 states are laws promulgated by the states legislatures.

If the HOD actually changes the requirement, it would still need a revision of state law by the legislature on those 5 states.

Unless I'm completely mis-reading this issue and all the 😕 fine print.

 

[pathdawg]

The reason for the "5 states rule" is that they require you to be certified by the AOA, even if you have completed an ACGME residency. Other states do not require AOA certification for DO's.

Technically, those five states do not require AOA certification. They do require the internship year for licensure. For example, I have a Pennsylvania license and I am not AOA certified (I am not even a member of the AOA). I did, however, complete an AOA internship.

 

[jawicobike]

I was told at a recent meeting by a Program Chairman and active member in the AOA HOD that by the time we grad in 2009, we won't have to worry about the internship, he said it's on it's way out.

We were told yesterday by the president-elect of the AOA that the best advice he could give us would be to an AOA approved internship. You can infer from that what you like.

 

[peppy]

Even though I'm in MI, I'm not really clear on how the internship issue works. Nobody at our school has talked to my class about it yet.
I believe I've heard that you can apply for a waiver to get out of the internship requirement. Does anyone know what kind of circumstances allow you to get the internship requirement waived?

 

[subtle1epiphany]

Even though I'm in MI, I'm not really clear on how the internship issue works. Nobody at our school has talked to my class about it yet.
I believe I've heard that you can apply for a waiver to get out of the internship requirement. Does anyone know what kind of circumstances allow you to get the internship requirement waived?

Hey buddy, no class for you today?
Anyways, the most common and successful applications involve military medical education and being in an area without enough residency programs...in Michigan that won't likely be an issue.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dtn3t]

We were told yesterday by the president-elect of the AOA that the best advice he could give us would be to an AOA approved internship. You can infer from that what you like.

Of course he's going to say that, I don't expect anything different. Doesn't mean it makes sense. I infer nothing from the AOA leaders. Just that they are idiots and are out to make themselves feel important.

Don't forget that allopathic residencies technically do an internship as well. Their first year of residency they are considered "interns" doing all the same scutwork we do during our internship year.

Yes, but if you do the DO year and then start an allopathic peds or surgery or whatever residency, you most likely won't get much credit for that DO year. Thus, you do another intern year. That, my friend, is what makes this BS. It works if you just want to do FP or a specialty that requires an generic internship, but for some people it sucks.

Take it from a very bitter, jaded, angry-at-the-world intern. I'll be damned before I have to go through this again.

 

[Doc 2b]

We were told yesterday by the president-elect of the AOA that the best advice he could give us would be to an AOA approved internship. You can infer from that what you like.

Only Ms. Cleo knows for sure, I'm just passing along what I have heard. But, of course he is going to say that, he's trying to fill AOA residency positions. I was talking to a PD of one of the very well known AOA surgery programs, and he was telling me that it was almost impossible to get an ACGME spot as a DO, which is total crap! Just remember that they are trying to sell you. You can scutwork just about every community based ACGME surgery program and you'll find at least one DO in the ranks. This isn't directed at you jaw, but people have to remember that DO reps are going to discourage good students from going to ACGME residencies as a way to maintain their programs, a fruitless act in my opinion.

 

[Doc 2b]

Just that they are idiots and are out to make themselves feel important.

Yep, Big fish in a little pond.

 

[jhug]

If my understanding of the "5 state rule" is correct, it would be irrelevant what the HOD does. The states' internship requirement for state licensure in those 5 states are laws promulgated by the states legislatures.

when we asked about this the pres said it isn't the AOA's job to fix this problem...why are they around again?

Big fish in a little pond

no...just a fool of a fish in a little pond...
i am so sick of them telling us to do AOA residencies and be true to the profession...all the while they are opening schools at a rate that FAR exceeds the number of programs opening.

correct me if i'm wrong on this but i believe that once you have completed the internship year you are no longer funded for that extra year an ACGME program has you for (ie: EM is 3 years...if you do the AOA internship thing you then have to go to the other program and your last year's funding has been eaten up by the pointless aoa internship) this means that the program has to pick up the tab...so ask yourself, would you take someone who is funded? or someone you have to pay for yourself? tough business question...